New to Linux, why does it do this

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, linuxChips2600 said:

Not to completely discredit you on this, given how much pain I suffered with daily driving Linux before switching back to a main Windows OS (switched back since I got a new laptop and wanted the familiar convenience of Windows), but do you have any specific evidence of this that you may link here publicly?

Redhat -> CentOS ->{yum} RPM round-a-bout

Debian -> {apt}/aptitude

Arch -> {Pacman}

Gentoo ->{Portage}

 

Xlib->

XCB-> Window managers (too many to list, 49 according to wikipedia)

 

Is it too much to ask that "Double click" launch a program or open the document? What the OP experienced was merely a permission issue, but they shouldn't have to come to a forum to figure this out. The OS could have done the obvious look for the magic bytes/script interpreter associated with it and ask if they want to make it executable if it wasn't. Windows does this when you download things and try to launch it.

 

Not everything Windows does is good or even user friendly, but Linux is not the leader, so it should be following the expectations of how Windows or how MacOS deal with things. Is it too much to ask to just download a "linux program", unpack it, and run it without having to do any finagling at all? The closest you get to that is Steam alone. That bypasses 4 different ways a Linux OS may deal with packages, and the 49 different window managers that may want to do things differently.

 

[Biohazard777]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Like maybe we should just read the writing on the wall that Linux gaming is dead, and Linux users have to rely on Steam's version of Proton or they don't get to play at all. If Valve ever stops updating it, or some game devs (eg Epic) never want to put their games on Steam, then you don't get it on Linux, at all.

The bolded part is wrong.
My copy of "Into the Breach" was acquired through Epic (giveaway),
I downloaded it using Heroic Games Launcher,
I added it to Steam as a non-Steam game:

Set the compatability to Proton 8.0-5

And it is running just fine...

 

I am fully aware that Into the Breach was released also on Steam, Humble, and GOG... and that it has a native Linux version on those storefronts, just not Epic...
But if you really want an exclusive... like Alan Wake 2 where Epic is the publisher, it will most probably never come to anything else than EGS.
Here, running on Steam Deck - SteamOS 

Also, you are exaggerating a bit, sure Linux gaming has flourished thanks to Valve,
but saying it would be dead without it is like saying Linux Desktop would die tomorrow if Canonical and IBM stopped contributing...

[BoomerDutch]

53 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

The bolded part is wrong.
My copy of "Into the Breach" was acquired through Epic (giveaway),
I downloaded it using Heroic Games Launcher,
I added it to Steam as a non-Steam game:

Set the compatability to Proton 8.0-5

And it is running just fine...

 

I am fully aware that Into the Breach was released also on Steam, Humble, and GOG... and that it has a native Linux version on those storefronts, just not Epic...
But if you really want an exclusive... like Alan Wake 2 where Epic is the publisher, it will most probably never come to anything else than EGS.
Here, running on Steam Deck - SteamOS 

Also, you are exaggerating a bit, sure Linux gaming has flourished thanks to Valve,
but saying it would be dead without it is like saying Linux Desktop would die tomorrow if Canonical and IBM stopped contributing...

Was about comment that.

Thanks for that.

 

Don't think too negatively on linux gaming.

Plenty awesome people is making this possible and its truly rising above 4% linux gamers.

 

And rare cases running better than windows in some games.

[Kisai]

52 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Also, you are exaggerating a bit, sure Linux gaming has flourished thanks to Valve,
but saying it would be dead without it is like saying Linux Desktop would die tomorrow if Canonical and IBM stopped contributing...

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Linux users giving up on asking for Linux-native versions and instead settling for Proton, means developers won't even consider Linux. Good luck ever getting support from the developer then. "Sorry, we only support Windows 11, anything else you're on your own" at best, and "LOL, Linux" at worst.

 

I can tell you from experience on the other side that people tend to ask for Linux support, seemingly out of nowhere, but then don't ever give any information as to what support they want. Conflating Proton with "Linux support" is just asking to never see a single AAA linux native game, ever.

 

[BoomerDutch]

12 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Linux users giving up on asking for Linux-native versions and instead settling for Proton, means developers won't even consider Linux. Good luck ever getting support from the developer then. "Sorry, we only support Windows 11, anything else you're on your own" at best, and "LOL, Linux" at worst.

 

I can tell you from experience on the other side that people tend to ask for Linux support, seemingly out of nowhere, but then don't ever give any information as to what support they want. Conflating Proton with "Linux support" is just asking to never see a single AAA linux native game, ever.

 

Blame the devs not us using proton.

[CosmicEmotion]

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

Like maybe we should just read the writing on the wall that Linux gaming is dead, and Linux users have to rely on Steam's version of Proton or they don't get to play at all. If Valve ever stops updating it, or some game devs (eg Epic) never want to put their games on Steam, then you don't get it on Linux, at all.

 

I won't bother with other things you said cause it's pretty obvious you don't use Linux or have even tried it in the past 6 years.

 

But just to clarify things here, Proton is an open source project meaning the community can take care of it as they already do with ProtonGE which works better than regular Proton. Furthermore, Proton is a really nice wrapper for Wine so Wine being abandoned is a no case, especially now that it has achieved almost Windows parity.

 

Epic Games and ALL other launchers can be used through Lutris which is just as simple as Proton and you can also launch all your games from one specific app, even Steam Games. You can even enable HDR through Lutris if you so desire to.

 

I understand that for some reason you want to prove that Linux gaming is bad or dead or whatever but, please, don't spread misinformation, based on your own ignorance or not.

 

 

[thevictor390]

11 hours ago, wasab said:

Nope, i never had a steam deck although, you can use it as a desktop as well. You just need to exit out of steam and into desktop mode. It does regular desktop stuffs just fine.

SteamOS does have a desktop but for several reasons it's not the best choice for general computing. One of those cases of "you can do it, but there are better tools for the job." I would say anyone attempting to do dev work will be running Distrobox and putting another more suitable distribution in a container.

The more obvious issue, of course, is that the thing has just one USB-C port, no built in keyboard, and a 7 inch 800p screen. Oh and to run it you need to be running Steam and signed into a Steam account. So really, just get a laptop.

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

I won't bother with other things you said cause it's pretty obvious you don't use Linux or have even tried it in the past 6 years.

I use linux daily, I'm fully aware of it's limitations.

 

7 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

But just to clarify things here, Proton is an open source project meaning the community can take care of it as they already do with ProtonGE which works better than regular Proton. Furthermore, Proton is a really nice wrapper for Wine so Wine being abandoned is a no case, especially now that it has achieved almost Windows parity.

Just because a project is open source, does not ensure it will be maintained in perpetuity. Open source does not mean "this project will remain free forever". Nothing is stopping some company from coming doing exactly what Wine->WineX->Cedega->Proton became in the first place. We've seen open source projects literately die from lack of maintainers.

 

And more to the point, DirectX and Windows is not a static unmoving thing. Microsoft historically never had their API's available online, you needed a MSDN subscription and agree to some ruthless terms of service to get access to them. We could see a day where Microsoft changes the terms and conditions on the Microsoft API's forbidding their use in competing products, which then means people have to manually reverse engineer every change microsoft makes, cleanly, just to maintain compatibility.

 

Quite frankly Microsoft knows there is no competition from Proton/Wine. We know this, because game developers aren't developing commercial games for Linux. 

 

7 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I understand that for some reason you want to prove that Linux gaming is bad or dead or whatever but, please, don't spread misinformation, based on your own ignorance or not.

 

Please. Linux zealots always come out of the woodwork to defend Linux's inadequacies for some dang reasons, which tends to prove the critique of Linux correct, every single time.

 

- Linux does not run 100% of Windows software, especially the software people particularly want to run, like current games.

- Linux does not run on 100% of hardware that typically runs Windows, usually only working on 5 year old hardware, and only after upstream patches from AMD/Intel. Nvidia has historically been absolutely hostile to Linux despite that being where the majority of AI training is being used.

- Linux is not free, neither in time or money, and neither is windows. The amount of tinkering or requiring reaching out to forums/reddit by people shows that people are willing to help, but only if you already know what you're doing, but you are more likely to get a useful answer from someone running Windows as their primary device, than someone running Linux, because for some dang reason Linux users always pull the haughty "RTFM" before they provide any useful help, and this just pushes people away from it. This originates with people like Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman who have done more to push people away from Linux, and even the GPL due to their extremely rude and inelegant manner of advocacy.

 

You can be right about Linux, but unless you are 100% nitpicky right, that is not good enough for the zealots. Do yourself a favor, if your knee-jerk reaction in this thread is to come out and defend Linux. Stop. You're not helping. Answer the OP's question without making yourself look like a troll.

 

This is why I say, do not use Linux as a gaming platform. You are going to be expressly disappointed when that AAA game that comes out on Epic with EAC will never run on it. If you have a second computer that you don't mind using to run Linux, that's fine. But if you're going to turn your gaming rig daily driver PC into a Linux machine, you are going to be disappointed very shortly.

 

We've seen this.

 

over

and over

 

and over

 

I would love to advocate for an alternative to Windows because of Microsoft's pivot towards cloud and AI feature creep into windows. But Linux advocates keep presenting wart-covered solutions and going "good enough for me"

 

It will never be successful on the desktop, and the unhelpfulness of a small but loud part of the Linux community keeps ensuring that remains true.

[CosmicEmotion]

3 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 Nvidia has historically been absolutely hostile to Linux despite that being where the majority of AI training is being used.

 

This is why I say, do not use Linux as a gaming platform. You are going to be expressly disappointed when that AAA game that comes out on Epic with EAC will never run on it. If you have a second computer that you don't mind using to run Linux, that's fine. But if you're going to turn your gaming rig daily driver PC into a Linux machine, you are going to be disappointed very shortly.

 

I won't bother creating another wall of text when it's absolutely obvious if you're biased or not. For a daily Linux user though, your level of complete ignorance is astounding, truly.

 

Nvidia have open sourced their kernel modules and provided the firmware needed for full GPU usage with an open source Vulkan driver called NVK. It works pretty damn well with DX11 games, I know it cause I use it personally. Are you using NVK as well daily? Please le me know what you think.

So, this fairytale that only AMD and Intel contribute to the Mesa drivers is all uninformed misinformation when just today the former nouveau lead, now an Nvidia employee, dropped 156 patches for nouveau using the new firmware.

 

You are not going to be disappointed by anything. I have over 600 games on. Steam/Epic/Ubisoft/EA/whatever and they ALL, without single exception, work. I know cause I've tested them ALL. On AMD with about 20% more performance than on Windows. I have been testing games on Linux vs Windows for 3 years now so if you don't know what  you're talking about better not talk at all.

 

I won't even get into the videos you posted, LTT's one being the greatest troll in the history of tech videos. If I wanted I can find 100 videos of people being glad they switched. But I'm not gonna do that cause it's extremely obvious who's misinformed and biased. So please, keep making your case even worse by stating even more inaccuracies.

 

I will say that I have converted countless people to Linux and I'm not even their personal tech support. Amazing, yet true.

 

Believe what you like as I said, but don't spread inacurracies and misconceptions.

[Kisai]

15 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

I won't bother creating another wall of text when it's absolutely obvious if you're biased or not. For a daily Linux user though, your level of complete ignorance is astounding, truly.

 

And  this is why nobody should use Linux. Comments like this. You aren't helping.

"Dismiss, degrade, insult"

 

I have 34 years of computer experience, with DOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS, and various other stupid things, and YOUR entire argument is "you aren't me"

 

That is the point. Linux advocates keep doing this. Dismiss that the person is competent, gatekeep them by degrading them when they point out truths, and then insult them to try and get them to go away.

 

Linux users don't want to be helpful, they want to pretend they are holier than thou for having solved the gatekeeper's puzzle. 

[BoomerDutch]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

And  this is why nobody should use Linux. Comments like this. You aren't helping.

"Dismiss, degrade, insult"

 

I have 34 years of computer experience, with DOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS, and various other stupid things, and YOUR entire argument is "you aren't me"

 

That is the point. Linux advocates keep doing this. Dismiss that the person is competent, gatekeep them by degrading them when they point out truths, and then insult them to try and get them to go away.

 

Linux users don't want to be helpful, they want to pretend they are holier than thou for having solved the gatekeeper's puzzle. 

But you're not helpful because you're telling us gaming on linux is bad because such such and never will be such such because company said X.

 

I've never been happier to play games on linux like seriously for me its taboo to ever touch windows with connected internet.

 

It boots faster cleaner and no more running background tasks without my say so. If i expect to use it then i will use it.

Won't wait for anything.

 

And performance wise its good and playable and protondb is rising.

Now lately plenty games have enabled anticheat linux proton made by valve

So more people can come and play including me with dayz.

It just works but not there yet since it needs tweak 1 or 2.

 

I'm done with companies doing shit as their wish on my devices without my say so and i can't fight it because they probably printed so small in terms of services and gets away with it.

 

So please don't discourage people from using proton or native whatoever.

 

And don't give any attention to CEO dicks opinion because they will change drastically their opinion if they see pot of gold there.

 

Just have to wait because people are moving to Linux most hits and misses.

[wasab]

3 hours ago, thevictor390 said:

SteamOS does have a desktop but for several reasons it's not the best choice for general computing. One of those cases of "you can do it, but there are better tools for the job." I would say anyone attempting to do dev work will be running Distrobox and putting another more suitable distribution in a container.

The more obvious issue, of course, is that the thing has just one USB-C port, no built in keyboard, and a 7 inch 800p screen. Oh and to run it you need to be running Steam and signed into a Steam account. So really, just get a laptop.

I mean thats what usb c hub, bluetooth keyboard/mouse, and a monitor is for. steam machine is just a skin arch under the hood. it is no different than me just setting steam to big picture mode by default and auto start up it on boot in ubuntu minus some drivers and controllers quick access stuff. if you go into desktop, it is very vanilla linux with a KDE desktop. 

 

i mean for $400ish bucks, steam os beats out most laptop and can double as a PC unlike a regular console or switch.

[thevictor390]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

I mean thats what usb c hub, bluetooth keyboard/mouse, and a monitor is for. steam machine is just a skin arch under the hood. it is no different than me just setting steam to big picture mode by default and auto start up it on boot in ubuntu minus some drivers and controllers quick access stuff. if you go into desktop, it is very vanilla linux with a KDE desktop. 

That's just plain not true. SteamOS is Arch based but it is not Arch. Game Mode is not just Big Picture, it replaces the desktop environment completely and has no window management. And you always boot here, logging into Steam, before being able to switch to Desktop. Pacman is disabled by default and the filesystem outside of /home is read-only. Updates are pushed as system images and overwrite any changes you make outside of /home.

So if you have to replace the operating system and add all of the peripherals yourself, why choose it in the first place? It's just not a development machine. Remember we are talking about a NON-gamer...

[wasab]

13 minutes ago, thevictor390 said:

That's just plain not true. SteamOS is Arch based but it is not Arch. Game Mode is not just Big Picture, it replaces the desktop environment completely and has no window management. And you always boot here, logging into Steam, before being able to switch to Desktop.

if you are talking about technicality then yes but for users, same uses cases, same experiences.

 

 

13 minutes ago, thevictor390 said:

 Pacman is disabled by default  the filesystem outside of /home is read-only. Updates are pushed as system images and overwrite any changes you make outside of /home.

use flatpak and these are not really a major limitation. it all depends on what you wanna do. i personally create a /bin in my home and throw all my dev tools and softwares in there on all the linux distros i used in the past. you can simply treat steam os like a regular linux desktop but as less privileged user without root access

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

But you're not helpful because you're telling us gaming on linux is bad because such such and never will be such such because company said X.

No, I'm being helpful by putting the spotlight on why Linux has drifted in the doldrums for being a general Desktop OS, never mind a Gaming platform. You may not want to believe it to be true. But it is.

 

If you want to see another example of "open source doesn't solve things", look at the SDL (simple directmedia layer) library. A cross-platform library that does all the annoying startup tasks to provide a general starting point to write a portable application.

 

What happened? They changed the API, they dropped support for things, and trying to update a game that uses SDL1 to 2, or 2 to 3 isn't straight forward. Instead of trying to keep the API consistant, they've instead ensured that anything built against SDL1, has no forward compatibility. You see this in emulators, but in particular, DOSBOX.

 

If at some point Microsoft breaks the "overlay" (which is the default) mode, ALL SDL games cease working without being able to reconfigure it, or recompile it.

 

 

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

I've never been happier to play games on linux like seriously for me its taboo to ever touch windows with connected internet.

I'm not telling you not to.

 

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

It boots faster cleaner and no more running background tasks without my say so. If i expect to use it then i will use it.

Won't wait for anything.

 

And performance wise its good and playable and protondb is rising.

Now lately plenty games have enabled anticheat linux proton made by valve

So more people can come and play including me with dayz.

It just works but not there yet since it needs tweak 1 or 2.

And relying on a single company to be in the Linux community's good graces forever is a disaster plan. Someone could buy Valve tomorrow and shut all of it down, or worse, the people who actually care about Valve existing could exit the company and sell it to Microsoft. Then what?

 

Short term thinking dooms everyone. We've enough evidence that something merely being open source doesn't save it from code rot.

 

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

I'm done with companies doing shit as their wish on my devices without my say so and i can't fight it because they probably printed so small in terms of services and gets away with it.

And this is just the political argument a lot of Linux advocates push. "My computer, my software", and..? When all these vendors only write drivers for Windows, you are depending on a lot of good will from the Linux kernel developers to support your hardware.

 

 

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

So please don't discourage people from using proton or native whatoever.

I'm not. I'm saying don't expect parity, which is what unfortunately people have been pushing ever since WINE could run one game. People always demonstrate Linux boxes running emulators, not native games, and that is seriously disappointing and not encouraging developers to bring their games to Linux.

 

2 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

Just have to wait because people are moving to Linux most hits and misses.

Been waiting for 25 years for there to be a good Linux that works at parity of Windows, or at Least MacOS. Still waiting. 

 

You know what promised us that? AmigaOS. Where is that? Pretty much dead. BeOS? Also dead. There is this obvious pattern that what we need as competition to Windows is "something is Windows in all but name, but not made by Microsoft" not "frankensteins monster that might, or might not run a Windows program and depends on the goodwill of the community to continue functioning and microsoft looking the other way.

 

Valve has a unique opportunity to make Linux at least somewhat usable as a gaming platform, but the previous 10 years, even though they supported Linux, they never helped bring any games TO linux that weren't their own first party games.

 

Proton will always be a bandaid, and because of how frequently Valve abandon's it's own projects to just let them waffle around, I woudn't trust Proton to not become code rot hell. It only works right now because of the Steamdeck, and if Valve decides the steamdeck isn't worth supporting in 3 years, they sure as heck aren't going to be putting more effort into Proton.

 

[CosmicEmotion]

47 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Been waiting for 25 years for there to be a good Linux that works at parity of Windows, or at Least MacOS. Still waiting.

 

Gaming on MacOS is better. I see. This almost made suffocate from laughter, seriously. Thanks for a good time! XD

[BoomerDutch]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

And relying on a single company to be in the Linux community's good graces forever is a disaster plan. Someone could buy Valve tomorrow and shut all of it down, or worse, the people who actually care about Valve existing could exit the company and sell it to Microsoft. Then what?

 

Short term thinking dooms everyone. We've enough evidence that something merely being open source doesn't save it from code rot.

I'm fortunately not only depending single company, I'm depending on opensource community the team that puts efford to the distribution not single team but multiple hence why i have arch and Debian and others.

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

And this is just the political argument a lot of Linux advocates push. "My computer, my software", and..? When all these vendors only write drivers for Windows, you are depending on a lot of good will from the Linux kernel developers to support your hardware.

Yes I'm hugely depending goodwill to Linux users because if something is wrong with package like malicious package it will be known and it only happens on bleeding edge operation systems and not only linux users reports it but also Microsoft side will report like xz so I'm fairly certain even linux fanatics will do anything to report if something is wrong with any of packages.

Including kernel there's hundred guides how to make your own kernel so I'm hoping i won't have to in future.

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

I'm not. I'm saying don't expect parity, which is what unfortunately people have been pushing ever since WINE could run one game. People always demonstrate Linux boxes running emulators, not native games, and that is seriously disappointing and not encouraging developers to bring their games to Linux.

Well yes that's because it became popular.

Which saddens me however proton is kinda indentical to Virtualisation which is almost enclosed if this gets further developed there might be chance a isolated game to run and play that way if any leak happens to games like dark souls incident. So we can keep playing without any worries on main pc and will be extreme difficult to modify a running isolated game to play unfairly. This move probably will move plenty game studios to that idea.

Because they have less things to worry about.

 

But hey i can dream right?

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Valve has a unique opportunity to make Linux at least somewhat usable as a gaming platform, but the previous 10 years, even though they supported Linux, they never helped bring any games TO linux that weren't their own first party games.

That's because it's a neutral company.

The team decides together and votes for it. Thats how valve is running things which i do have them on high standards and I'm not worried about their money either because of their gambling side.

I don't mind valve gambling side because it's voluntary to trade sell and buy also gambling.

 

Ive seen people putting 1k into gambling and gets maybe 200 back so I'd see that as donation to valve anyways.

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Proton will always be a bandaid, and because of how frequently Valve abandon's it's own projects to just let them waffle around, I woudn't trust Proton to not become code rot hell. It only works right now because of the Steamdeck, and if Valve decides the steamdeck isn't worth supporting in 3 years, they sure as heck aren't going to be putting more effort into Proton.

I doubt that because of huge sales of steamdeck it brought millions and they are probably better version of steamdeck with stronger hardware in future fairly certain many people still want it.

 

So no not 3 years 6/8 years maybe.

Depends how stubborn the valve team is.

 

Like i get it what you're trying to say.

It's just a bit shaky but not enough shaky to actually worry about because of trust i have for valve.

 

Cheers

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, BoomerDutch said:

I doubt that because of huge sales of steamdeck it brought millions and they are probably better version of steamdeck with stronger hardware in future fairly certain many people still want it.

 

So no not 3 years 6/8 years maybe.

Depends how stubborn the valve team is.

There will be a steamdeck 2, and then there will be no steamdeck 3 because Valve hates 3's.

 

1 hour ago, BoomerDutch said:

Like i get it what you're trying to say.

It's just a bit shaky but not enough shaky to actually worry about because of trust i have for valve.

 

Cheers

Yeah, I didn't come into the thread with the intent to dissaude anyone, just "temper your expectations" because I've had much more insane arguments from people who thought just because a RPi could run minecraft it could run windows and I'm like ... "no... it doesn't even work that way". I'm not angry.

 

People have some extremely misguided expectations and the point I want to drive home is that without an AAA developer explicitly developing for native Linux, Linux will continue to "not be a gaming platform", and a lot of this is self-inflicted because the Linux developers don't standardize on enough things to make it worth the investment.

 

The irony will be if Proton get's to a state where it can produce a self-contained runtime that works on any version of Linux, because then developers could just "support Linux" by including the runtime and not have to finagle with support of how to install their game on 400 different flavors of linux.

[linuxChips2600]

I think we've completely strayed from answering OP's original question at this point...

 

Yes Windows vs Linux vs MacOS vs whatever will forever be a thing but at some point I think we just have to accept that the perfect OS simply doesn't exist and probably will never exist and just have to move on with our lives

 

Just my humble 2 cents...

[wasab]

11 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

 

Gaming on MacOS is better. I see. This almost made suffocate from laughter, seriously. Thanks for a good time! XD

Hey, slap on an Apple logo and everything magically becomes better. Sex, weed, and even video games

 

10 hours ago, BoomerDutch said:

 

 

Well yes that's because it became popular.

Which saddens me however proton is kinda indentical to Virtualisation 

 

Cheers

not really, WINE is a compatibility layer for windows API, it does not virtualize any hardware. true virtualization like what you see in hypervisors however do, from disks to CPU. I mean just read what WINE stands for, it is not an emulator.

 

Wine has a slight performance hit because it translates windows API calls on the fly during RUNTIME. Many native Linux ports of windows games actually all do the same thing but at the COMPILED TIME so the performance hit is less. e.g. game publishers like Feral uses such technology to port their games to linux, they did the translation at the source code layer before compiling it to native binaries. it is like those interpreters vs compilers misunderstanding among many people. Like I said, not a virtualization. Microsoft does the same thing for its apis when they do major windows release. these are called service packs. they are more rare nowadays but during the xp to Windows Vista eras, they were very much a necessity to get older Windows programs to run. They are considered runtimes because they provide an "environment" with all the necessary stuff for a program to run during their "running-time"(lol). 

 

Steam ships its own runtime btw. it is here ValveSoftware/steam-runtime: A runtime environment for Steam applications (github.com)

This is how valve can get steam and all the games it ships with to run on all major Linux distros regardless of whatever breaking changes and differences between distro and between distro releases. It still doesn't solve the problem of many games breaking because of whatever newer release nvidia drivers breaking the games or devs bundles in their own dependencies that no longer function on the newer distros. i had the latter issues when playing Star Rulers 2. I had to replace the .so shared library file in its game directory with the newer updated one to get the game to run. like I said, although Valve made it easy, it doesn't fix the lack of apathy from the game publishers and devs. 

[Ultraforce]

19 hours ago, Kisai said:

You know what promised us that? AmigaOS. Where is that? Pretty much dead. BeOS? Also dead. There is this obvious pattern that what we need as competition to Windows is "something is Windows in all but name, but not made by Microsoft" not "frankensteins monster that might, or might not run a Windows program and depends on the goodwill of the community to continue functioning and microsoft looking the other way.

 

You know trying to make Windows in all but name is a great way to be sued and lose a lot of money, unless you live somewhere where IP and copyright rules of the USA are ignored.

MacOS isn't trying to be Windows in all but name, and is part of a pretty successful company.

I might be wrong but am pretty sure trying to make Windows in all but name, but not made by Microsoft is just a bad idea for a project for anyone, let alone a company to do. The NT kernel is proprietary, and you would very likely be breaking the law. Maybe a Linux Distro that receives regular kernel updates, uses a Desktop Environment which they set up to look like Windows, and then turns anything and everything into Windows Containers would maybe work, but probably not.

Pretty sure we can see with Twitter that "X in all but name, but not made by the company we don't like" is not actually a particularly effective strategy.

[Kisai]

1 minute ago, Ultraforce said:

You know trying to make Windows in all but name is a great way to be sued and lose a lot of money, unless you live somewhere where IP and copyright rules of the USA are ignored.

 

https://reactos.org/