Lamptron caught mass selling invalid AIDA64 keys

[CoolJosh3k]

Summary

 As I understand it, Lamptron is mass reselling the AIDA64 software as the core component of their products, but they never actually bought the keys they are “reselling”.

A discovery that is causing issues for many distributors now they know about it and maybe customers too.

 

Quotes

Quote

 “…it seems like we can use a product right and on the packaging it told us that this does not support online upgrade so what actually happens if we try that so once you check for update it surprisingly tells me warning this is not a legally purchased copy…” - Quote from YouTube transcript

Quote

“Unfortunately, none of the product keys you shared are valid in our system. This strongly suggests they were generated illegally using a tool like a KeyGen.” - Email from FinalWire

Quote

“…different shops in Europe and they removed the items from their stock and are considering legal action…” - pinned YouTibe comment update from der8auer

My thoughts

 Based on what was said in the video, it sounds like everyone who has bought and used on of the many Lamptron products could face legal issues if they now learn of this, or simply figured it out on their own.

I find it very interesting that a company can keep doing such an illegal activity at such a scale for so long, while putting anyone they distribute through at major risk of legal trouble.

 

 

Sources

 

 

[Shimejii]

The "if you bought this product they will have legal issues" People tend to be in the countries that have pretty awful laws. Germany and many of the EU countries have pretty stupid laws with this type of product against the consumer instead of being against the company.

 

How do they get away with it? Simple, most of the time they do not care if a business does this thing. Can almost say with certainty the goverments and such are FAR more annoyed with Der8aur then they are with lamptron with this kind of issue. This has been an issue for years with that company, theyve probably been told quite a few times about it and nothing was really done. Now that a somewhat popular youtuber made a big issue about it, i can see them being pretty annoyed at him rather then the company.

[StDragon]

lol, so Laptron was generating with a keygen?! 

Yeah, those are very version specific. So the algo gets rotated upon the next version release so only legit keys work, and the pirated ones from the keygen program are invalid. This cat-and-mouse game is very common in the software world that uses activation keys.

[RejZoR]

I don't get it how can Germany criminalize USERS for this crap? By what dumb logic? It's not users responsibility to go full Sherlock to figure out if company is screwing them over or not. Users shouldn't be liable at all and Germany as government should prosecute Lamptron in this case. As simple as that.

[StDragon]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I don't get it how can Germany criminalize USERS for this crap?

There's the idea that ignorance is no excuse for violating the law, and, that effectively the purchaser is basically an accessory to a crime.

But as with anything in law, intent usually matters. So, maybe the judicial system is more lenient for an honest mistake, but not for those looking to resell them?? 

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, StDragon said:

There's the idea that ignorance is no excuse for violating the law, and, that effectively the purchaser is basically an accessory to a crime.

No user has the tools/knowledge/time/etc to check every purchase if the sold goods are legit......

[StDragon]

17 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

No user has the tools/knowledge/time/etc to check every purchase if the sold goods are legit......

 I agree; hence why I mentioned 'intent'.

[RejZoR]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

No user has the tools/knowledge/time/etc to check every purchase if the sold goods are legit......

And it shouldn't be buyers job to do that. Whoever is importing those products should do this kind of checks to make sure good sold to users are not fraudulent. And they should be liable, not the users. If you purchased it via authorized/official reseller, user shouldn't be liable for ANYTHING. It would be different if you import it yourself by buying it from AliExpress or some other unreliable source. That changes things and if I want something genuine, I'm not going to buy it on AliExpress because you can't be sure about anything there, it's China after all. Amazon used to only have genuine brand name products, but these days it's almost the same as AliExpress so I wouldn't rely on that at all anymore. Full of cheap knock off looking items.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And it shouldn't be buyers job to do that.

 

9 hours ago, StDragon said:

I agree; hence why I mentioned 'intent'.

 

It's unlikely to be about having to investigate and do any real work as the buyer, there are times where it's obvious to reasonable suspicion that something is not legit and that is more than likely what the law seeks to address. Without that people already do skirt that responsibility and liability through the defense of "not knowing 100% if legitimate or not".

 

Any reasonable suspicion that a good or service sold at only 10% the regular price is suspect and going through with the purchase makes you liable if it is indeed not.

 

Applying laws, particularly in court isn't always so straight forward, mitigating factors count and there is also a lot more to the actual written laws nobody reads, I don't read every law in full, that would be insanity heh.  That is also if something makes it to court, police do not have to charge, they can apply common sense to a situation.

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Any reasonable suspicion that a good or service sold at only 10% the regular price is suspect

Except companies have the right to sell sw they bought and dont need anymore. And usually they sell it for its "remainder worth" (in other words for a small fraction of the origonsl price)...........

[leadeater]

45 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Except companies have the right to sell sw they bought and dont need anymore. And usually they sell it for its "remainder worth" (in other words for a small fraction of the origonsl price)...........

Yes that fine, except that is not every situation, like this story. Used software sales isn't a catch all defense, neither would it always work. Because again if it's obviously not a legit sale of used software then it's good that claimed ignorance not apply.

 

There is a range and it starts with "Guy with anxiety behavioral traits, flush skin, sweating, trying to sell you a PS5 in an alley", work up from there on obvious situations all the way to reasonably not obvious. 

 

You don't get brand new, never used, software keys for 50% or better off. If it's legit then it's the exception not the rule.

 

But as to this story nobody should be reasonably expected to know that an included product key in a purchased product isn't actually legit.

[Mojo-Jojo]

16 hours ago, StDragon said:

There's the idea that ignorance is no excuse for violating the law, and, that effectively the purchaser is basically an accessory to a crime.

But as with anything in law, intent usually matters. So, maybe the judicial system is more lenient for an honest mistake, but not for those looking to resell them?? 

Our neighbours in Germany usually have pretty similar laws to us (Netherlands). That being said. Here if you buy something that happens to be stolen or illegally obtained, but you yourself paid for it in good faith, you are not at fault. Good faith is an important clue here. If you have no suspicion whatsoever, and the price seems reasonable, then you cannot be charged for any crime. Worst case you'll have to spend some time to explain the situation to the police.

 

However, if you're buying stuff and you know the price is too good to be true, i.e. grey market license keys, or a $5 bicycle with a destroyed lock, that's where good faith ends and lawful pursuit begins. So long story short, it all depends on the intent here. Like you said.

[RejZoR]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

 

It's unlikely to be about having to investigate and do any real work as the buyer, there are times where it's obvious to reasonable suspicion that something is not legit and that is more than likely what the law seeks to address. Without that people already do skirt that responsibility and liability through the defense of "not knowing 100% if legitimate or not".

 

Any reasonable suspicion that a good or service sold at only 10% the regular price is suspect and going through with the purchase makes you liable if it is indeed not.

 

Applying laws, particularly in court isn't always so straight forward, mitigating factors count and there is also a lot more to the actual written laws nobody reads, I don't read every law in full, that would be insanity heh.  That is also if something makes it to court, police do not have to charge, they can apply common sense to a situation.

That doesn't and shouldn't work like that. Even Roman had to buy several Lamptron products and contact AIDA64 devs directly and specifically ask about keys to find something fishy is going on. Now tell me how realistic is for that to ever happen to an average consumer who buys single Lamptron product? At best, key not working would make user contact Lamptron and they'd just generate a new key and user would probably be happy long enough for them to forget about issue on a grand scheme of things.

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yes that fine, except that is not every situation,

My point was that the water is not as clear as you or.the law depict it, it is very muddy......

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

That doesn't and shouldn't work like that. Even Roman had to buy several Lamptron products and contact AIDA64 devs directly and specifically ask about keys to find something fishy is going on. Now tell me how realistic is for that to ever happen to an average consumer who buys single Lamptron product? At best, key not working would make user contact Lamptron and they'd just generate a new key and user would probably be happy long enough for them to forget about issue on a grand scheme of things.

Did I actually say that's how it works in this situation?

 

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

But as to this story nobody should be reasonably expected to know that an included product key in a purchased product isn't actually legit.

 

 

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Applying laws, particularly in court isn't always so straight forward, mitigating factors count and there is also a lot more to the actual written laws nobody reads, I don't read every law in full, that would be insanity heh.

 

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

  That is also if something makes it to court, police do not have to charge, they can apply common sense to a situation.

 

[leadeater]

47 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

My point was that the water is not as clear as you or.the law depict it, it is very muddy......

Literally did I say it was clear, omg do you not read?

 

Clearly, you missed my point. So here were are discussing what? I think you know very well the point, feigning ignorance isn't always a good thing and I don't see a problem with not allowing it.

 

Quote

Feigning ignorance is a manipulation tactic that can be used to avoid accountability, confuse the other party, or gain the upper hand in a negotiation. By acting uninformed or confused, a person can deflect criticism, evade responsibilities, or manipulate others into revealing more information than they intended.

 

Oh no, you can't pretend to not know something wasn't "on the up and up".. how terrible.... 

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Literally did I say it was clear, omg do you not read?

 

I  am playing ignorant while you keep throwing around terms luke "obviously". No it is not obvious for 99.9% of the population nor should they play detective when buying from legally operating companiey lime amazon and such.