Is my 4090 dying?

[SydB12]

Hi. I have a Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC for less than a year, running with some mild undervolt with MSI AB, that has been stable since day 1. However, 5 days ago, I updated "successfully" the BIOS for the GPU. I updated the BIOS because the previous one had some fan revving issues and the new BIOS is supposedly addressing this issue. I used Gigabyte Control Center (GCC) for the BIOS flash and the app showed the update as correctly applied. Immediately, I uninstalled the crappy GCC but then, after 2 hours using the PC (web searching, nothing intensive), it froze showing artifacts.

Since then I've tried to reinstall Nvidia drivers (DDU + installation of latest drivers), but after some hours it froze again at start-up. I have also tried to reinstall GCC as some Reddit posts were showing similar issues after uninstalling it, but after 1 day, the PC froze again showing artifacts also at Windows start-up. Then, for the last 4 days the GPU has been working fine (gaming too), until this morning the same happened at start-up screen.

The thing is, I'm assuming there's a problem with the new BIOS, but after contacting Gigabyte support center, they replied stating that there's no way to revert the BIOS to the previous one. My main questions are:

1. Is there a way to downgrade the BIOS safely? I know about the existence of Nvflash, but I'm not sure if it can be used to safely downgrade the BIOS. I have only found info of that being used for upgrades, not downgrades.
2. Could the BIOS actually be the culprit for the artifacts? Or even a software issue? I've tried the GPU on my former system, and it has also crashed (so, I haven't even bothered to create a partition for a clean Windows install).
3. Should I RMA it before doing anything else that could render the GPU completely unusable? I'm typing this with the 4090 running and I'm sure I coulde do some intensive gaming with it for hours before crashing again (so, at least now I'm able to post and start Windows with it).

I'm attaching some pictures with the artifacts.

Thanks!

[Hellowpplz]

8 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

Hi. I have a Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC for less than a year, running with some mild undervolt with MSI AB, that has been stable since day 1. However, 5 days ago, I updated "successfully" the BIOS for the GPU. I updated the BIOS because the previous one had some fan revving issues and the new BIOS is supposedly addressing this issue. I used Gigabyte Control Center (GCC) for the BIOS flash and the app showed the update as correctly applied. Immediately, I uninstalled the crappy GCC but then, after 2 hours using the PC (web searching, nothing intensive), it froze showing artifacts.

Since then I've tried to reinstall Nvidia drivers (DDU + installation of latest drivers), but after some hours it froze again at start-up. I have also tried to reinstall GCC as some Reddit posts were showing similar issues after uninstalling it, but after 1 day, the PC froze again showing artifacts also at Windows start-up. Then, for the last 4 days the GPU has been working fine (gaming too), until this morning the same happened at start-up screen.

The thing is, I'm assuming there's a problem with the new BIOS, but after contacting Gigabyte support center, they replied stating that there's no way to revert the BIOS to the previous one. My main questions are:

1. Is there a way to downgrade the BIOS safely? I know about the existence of Nvflash, but I'm not sure if it can be used to safely downgrade the BIOS. I have only found info of that being used for upgrades, not downgrades.
2. Could the BIOS actually be the culprit for the artifacts? Or even a software issue? I've tried the GPU on my former system, and it has also crashed (so, I haven't even bothered to create a partition for a clean Windows install).
3. Should I RMA it before doing anything else that could render the GPU completely unusable? I'm typing this with the 4090 running and I'm sure I coulde do some intensive gaming with it for hours before crashing again (so, at least now I'm able to post and start Windows with it).

I'm attaching some pictures with the artifacts.

Thanks!

I doubt this is the issue but the new GPU bios could be disagreeing with this, try setting the voltage back to normal.

[SydB12]

7 minutes ago, Hellowpplz said:

I doubt this is the issue but the new GPU bios could be disagreeing with this, try setting the voltage back to normal.

I forgot to mention that I removed the undervolt after the first crash. Fans are now controlled by GCC and voltages are untouched. Yet, the GPU keeps crashing...

[ChrisLoudon]

14 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

I'm attaching some pictures with the artifacts.

eek,

 

If you hadn't mentioned a BIOS flash then Artifacting like you've shown in the pics is a typical sign of faulty VRAM.

 

Try underclocking your VRAM to see if things clear up. Of course, that's not going to fix anything but should steer you in the right direction.

 

Never tinkered with flashing GPU BIOS's so can't help with that

[SydB12]

16 minutes ago, ChrisLoudon said:

eek,

 

If you hadn't mentioned a BIOS flash then Artifacting like you've shown in the pics is a typical sign of faulty VRAM.

 

Try underclocking your VRAM to see if things clear up. Of course, that's not going to fix anything but should steer you in the right direction.

 

Never tinkered with flashing GPU BIOS's so can't help with that

Ty, however underclocking means a loss in performance, so at the end it would be better to RMA it. Of course, as you said though, that could help me with the diagnosis.

[ChrisLoudon]

2 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

Ty, however underclocking means a loss in performance, so at the end it would be better to RMA it. Of course, as you said though, that could help me with the diagnosis.

Yeh, probably best to get an RMA process started asap.

 

I would still advise doing a little troubleshooting as its always good to have some additional info locked and loaded when some monkey comes back to you and tells you nothing is wrong.

 

While unlikely, the BIOS flash might have worked perfectly and its just coincidence that your VRAM has $hat the bed.

[DoctorNick]

54 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

Hi. I have a Gigabyte 4090 Gaming OC for less than a year, running with some mild undervolt with MSI AB, that has been stable since day 1. However, 5 days ago, I updated "successfully" the BIOS for the GPU. I updated the BIOS because the previous one had some fan revving issues and the new BIOS is supposedly addressing this issue. I used Gigabyte Control Center (GCC) for the BIOS flash and the app showed the update as correctly applied. Immediately, I uninstalled the crappy GCC but then, after 2 hours using the PC (web searching, nothing intensive), it froze showing artifacts.

Since then I've tried to reinstall Nvidia drivers (DDU + installation of latest drivers), but after some hours it froze again at start-up. I have also tried to reinstall GCC as some Reddit posts were showing similar issues after uninstalling it, but after 1 day, the PC froze again showing artifacts also at Windows start-up. Then, for the last 4 days the GPU has been working fine (gaming too), until this morning the same happened at start-up screen.

The thing is, I'm assuming there's a problem with the new BIOS, but after contacting Gigabyte support center, they replied stating that there's no way to revert the BIOS to the previous one. My main questions are:

1. Is there a way to downgrade the BIOS safely? I know about the existence of Nvflash, but I'm not sure if it can be used to safely downgrade the BIOS. I have only found info of that being used for upgrades, not downgrades.
2. Could the BIOS actually be the culprit for the artifacts? Or even a software issue? I've tried the GPU on my former system, and it has also crashed (so, I haven't even bothered to create a partition for a clean Windows install).
3. Should I RMA it before doing anything else that could render the GPU completely unusable? I'm typing this with the 4090 running and I'm sure I coulde do some intensive gaming with it for hours before crashing again (so, at least now I'm able to post and start Windows with it).

I'm attaching some pictures with the artifacts.

Thanks!

 

 

 

Looks like it failed somehow. Maybe because you used gigabyte control center. Have you tried updating manually? Downloading the BIOS update and just running that? Is this your card btw?

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N4090GAMING-OC-24GD-rev-10-11/support#support-dl-bios

 

If you don't get it to work, then contact gigabyte and tell them that you've updated through GCC and after you got the artifacts. Ask if they got any way to downgrade or force flash the BIOS without using Nvflash.

[SydB12]

8 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

Looks like it failed somehow. Maybe because you used gigabyte control center. Have you tried updating manually? Downloading the BIOS update and just running that? Is this your card btw?

https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N4090GAMING-OC-24GD-rev-10-11/support#support-dl-bios

 

If you don't get it to work, then contact gigabyte and tell them that you've updated through GCC and after you got the artifacts. Ask if they got any way to downgrade or force flash the BIOS without using Nvflash.

Yes, that's my GPU. Also, I already contacted Gigabyte and they don't support BIOS downgrade. And I won't tell them that I've used Nvflash in case I end up using it. That's a 3rd party software and I guess that could void my warranty.

Reinstalling the BIOS again, manually, that might be a good idea though. I have no clue, tbh, but it shouldn't hurt trying. Ty

[DoctorNick]

6 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

Yes, that's my GPU. Also, I already contacted Gigabyte and they don't support BIOS downgrade. And I won't tell them that I've used Nvflash in case I end up using it. That's a 3rd party software and I guess that could void my warranty.

Reinstalling the BIOS again, manually, that might be a good idea. Ty

yes try flashing it again with the gigabyte standalone program, no need to use GCC. If it doesn't work you only have the option of NVflash or RMA. You can flash everything with Nvflash, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you know what you're doing. After looking at your card again i noticed that it has dual BIOS. Have you tried switching to the other bios to see if it's also bad? Turn of PC and PSU and flip the switch:

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, DoctorNick said:

yes try flashing it again with the gigabyte standalone program, no need to use GCC. If it doesn't work you only have the option of NVflash or RMA. You can flash everything with Nvflash, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you know what you're doing. After looking at your card again i noticed that it has dual BIOS. Have you tried switching to the other bios to see if it's also bad? Turn of PC and PSU and flip the switch:

Good catch. If it is still crashing then it could be the gpu update just showed that this card was borderline functional which sometimes happens.

[SydB12]

2 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

yes try flashing it again with the gigabyte standalone program, no need to use GCC. If it doesn't work you only have the option of NVflash or RMA. You can flash everything with Nvflash, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you know what you're doing. After looking at your card again i noticed that it has dual BIOS. Have you tried switching to the other bios to see if it's also bad? Turn of PC and PSU and flip the switch:

I haven't tried the Silent BIOS. I guess I didn't upgrade that one, only the OC BIOS, because I used the crappy GCC for the upgrade while the OC mode was active. So, if the card keeps crashing with the former BIOS (silent mode) and standard voltages, that will mean the GPU is actually dying. Good idea, ty! However, if the card works, then that would mean I have to wait for another BIOS revision or try to downgrade it...

[DoctorNick]

5 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

However, if the card works, then that would mean I have to wait for another BIOS revision or try to downgrade it...

Yes hopefully it didn't flash both. If silent bios works, then I would still contact gigabyte and ask them for a BIOS file. Then you can flash OC bios manually. Worst case is that you brick the OC BIOS

[Salted Spinach]

Dual BIOS is basically another BIOS but with different default values which you can override in Afterburner or some other OC software, to run the same as the original OC BIOS.

 

Flashing one should leave the other unaffected.

[Mark Kaine]

just one question... is there a reason you keep using "GGC", might be that that is the issue? 

 

fan control should obviously work without any "third party software" (yes gigabyte is a third party because they didn't develop windows )

 

 

just asking because i would definitely try without that software.  otherwise definitely RMA, good luck! 

[Mark Kaine]

56 minutes ago, SydB12 said:

However, if the card works, then that would mean I have to wait

well yes and no, if the card works with the alternative bios that means something got messed up during the update (oc mode, why? never use manufacturers oc modes, they're clueless about software, they're hardware manufacturers for a reason lol) but yes, try the other BIOS and again, good luck.

 

 

[DoctorNick]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

well yes and no, if the card works with the alternative bios that means something got messed up during the update (oc mode, why? never use manufacturers oc modes, they're clueless about software, they're hardware manufacturers for a reason lol) but yes, try the other BIOS and again, good luck.

 

 

I think you're confusion auto OC on a motherboard to "OC mode" on a GPU. It might actually be two different modes. One with a higher RPM fan profile and slightly higher power target vs lower RPM and lower power target. Most of the time it does work, believe it or not.

[SydB12]

17 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

just one question... is there a reason you keep using "GGC", might be that that is the issue? 

 

fan control should obviously work without any "third party software" (yes gigabyte is a third party because they didn't develop windows )

 

 

just asking because i would definitely try without that software.  otherwise definitely RMA, good luck! 

Good question, I actually find GCC crappy af. But, in some Reddit posts people were reporting that the RGB Fusion software included in GCC could cause the Nvlddmkm crashes that I observe in Event Viewer each time the PC freezes.

TBH, the other day I installed and used GCC only to upgrade the BIOS, and then I uninstalled it immediately. But one of the things I tried on my "checklist of possible solutions" was to reinstall GCC due to those Reddit reports.

Before the BIOS update, I was using MSI AB for the downvolting and to control the GPU fans (case and CPU fans are controlled by Fan Control), but now I've disabled MSI AB completely (not starting at Windows startup) to revert the voltages to factory values. Now I'm basically using GCC to set the fans on auto mode, but the important outcome here is that the GPU was crashing also with it uninstalled.

[SydB12]

40 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

well yes and no, if the card works with the alternative bios that means something got messed up during the update (oc mode, why? never use manufacturers oc modes, they're clueless about software, they're hardware manufacturers for a reason lol) but yes, try the other BIOS and again, good luck.

 

 

OC BIOS mode in the GPU is the default mode. Actually, in the BIOS description for my GPU found at TechPowerUp (https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/252334/gigabyte-rtx4090-24576-221020) it appears as "default BIOS".

In this GPU, the alternative is called Silent mode (Silent BIOS) and after researching, it is basically the same BIOS but with a less aggressive fan curve (I might be wrong, but I believe voltages are the same for both).

The thing is that both BIOS seem to be flashed independently and, that, could help pinpointing the issue (if the GPU crashes also with an untouched BIOS, that sadly means the GPU is dying).

[Mark Kaine]

hmm i see , well try the other bios. 

 

also try without any software for fan control etc, its not needed.

 

also generally while troubleshooting its typically best to use default values. 

 

and on top of that, Gigabyte software is known to be especially crappy (and hard to remove btw, just a simple uninstall usually doesn't do it, you also need to disable it in services)

 

yeah, reddit, well. its not a reliable source, for anything really,  im not surprised.  

[Mark Kaine]

1 minute ago, SydB12 said:

OC BIOS mode in the GPU is the default mode. Actually, in the BIOS description for my GPU found at TechPowerUp (https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/252334/gigabyte-rtx4090-24576-221020) it appears as "default BIOS".

In this GPU, the alternative is called Silent mode (Silent BIOS) and after researching, it is basically the same BIOS but with a less aggressive fan curve (voltages are the same for both).

The thing is that both BIOS seem to be flashed independently and, that, could help pinpointing the issue (if the GPU crashes also with an untouched BIOS, that sadly means the GPU is dying).

yeah. its also the only actual benefit of having a dual bios lol, so try it, if you're lucky that fixes your issues (but also don't forget to uninstall *all* Gigabyte software) 

[Mark Kaine]

27 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

I think you're confusion auto OC on a motherboard to "OC mode" on a GPU. It might actually be two different modes. One with a higher RPM fan profile and slightly higher power target vs lower RPM and lower power target. Most of the time it does work, believe it or not.

no, i don't,  i read it as op used some Gigabyte software "OC" ... highly not recommended...  i know what a dual BIOS is ... if i misunderstood what OP did then ok, but i didn't confuse anything lol.

 

 

[SydB12]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah. its also the only actual benefit of having a dual bios lol, so try it, if you're lucky that fixes your issues (but also don't forget to uninstall *all* Gigabyte software) 

Yeah, I think I'm going to use Revo uninstaller to remove all Gigabyte crap for good.

And also, yes, Reddit sometimes is not the best source of knowledge, but can be good for finding similar complains.

Let's see, I'm running the Silent mode now and is working fine(?). But then again, the PC has been running for the last 4 days without issues with the OC mode. It would be awesome to find a way to force the GPU to crash and not having to wait until it decides to go nuts again, like this morning (I've tried stress tests or gaming without crashes for the last days).

[zombiepunk10]

11 hours ago, SydB12 said:

Yeah, I think I'm going to use Revo uninstaller to remove all Gigabyte crap for good.

And also, yes, Reddit sometimes is not the best source of knowledge, but can be good for finding similar complains.

Let's see, I'm running the Silent mode now and is working fine(?). But then again, the PC has been running for the last 4 days without issues with the OC mode. It would be awesome to find a way to force the GPU to crash and not having to wait until it decides to go nuts again, like this morning (I've tried stress tests or gaming without crashes for the last days).

Oh you fixed it? Thank God you didn't lose a 4090 of all things! (Knocks On Wood )

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

OP, did you say this was happening intermittently?

 

I asked because, I thought it was a problem with your monitor, when I first saw the pictures.

 

But, it's definitely not that, is it?

[SydB12]

7 hours ago, zombiepunk10 said:

Oh you fixed it? Thank God you didn't lose a 4090 of all things! (Knocks On Wood )

It was also working fine for 5 days with the OC mode active. So, even it might be working now on Silent mode (it has been working for over 12h), it could crash again tomorrow..., in 2 minutes..., in 1 week? So, I can't say I fixed yet. The only way to know for sure is to keep using the PC normally and then hope that it doesn't crash in a long time. Then, if that happens, I'll switch to the OC mode again without reflashing the BIOS and if it crash, that would mean the card is fine, but the BIOS update messed things up (and then is when I'll reflash the BIOS). 

Ty for the wood knocking though!!