WOW! Cannot believe this AIO myth still exsits (Pipe orientation)

[RobGMun]

Speaking to InsideTech in the UK, here's the full conversation

Me:

I see you do builds with the Fractal North and a 4080

 

James

We do!

 

Me:

Do you use an AIO on that?

 

James

We do yes

 

Me:

240mm or 360mm?

 

James

Both are an option

 

Me:

If you do 360mm is it pipes up top or bottom?

 

James

https://inside-tech.co.uk/product/fractal-north-wood-panel-4080-gamer/

Front

 

Me:

Yes I gathered it would be in the front, but would the pipes from the CPU to the grill go to the top or the bottom

 

James

They would bend around the top of the CPU but of course, you can move them to either orientation just up is more optimal

Under leaves, the pump potentially exposed without liquid ends up with an earlier failure rate

 

Me:

Actually it's the other way around. The pipes at the top would introduce air to the system and lead to a gargling sound and a shorter lifespan

But I'll leave the research to you.

 

James

Yes research has already been conducted but if you order one and want it that way just pop it in the notes with the purchase

 

Me:

Thanks for your time

 

James

You're welcome

 

Am I missing something or were we in the wrong all along?

[PDifolco]

4 minutes ago, RobGMun said:

Speaking to InsideTech in the UK, here's the full conversation

Me:

I see you do builds with the Fractal North and a 4080

 

James

We do!

 

Me:

Do you use an AIO on that?

 

James

We do yes

 

Me:

240mm or 360mm?

 

James

Both are an option

 

Me:

If you do 360mm is it pipes up top or bottom?

 

James

https://inside-tech.co.uk/product/fractal-north-wood-panel-4080-gamer/

Front

 

Me:

Yes I gathered it would be in the front, but would the pipes from the CPU to the grill go to the top or the bottom

 

James

They would bend around the top of the CPU but of course, you can move them to either orientation just up is more optimal

Under leaves, the pump potentially exposed without liquid ends up with an earlier failure rate

 

Me:

Actually it's the other way around. The pipes at the top would introduce air to the system and lead to a gargling sound and a shorter lifespan

But I'll leave the research to you.

 

James

Yes research has already been conducted but if you order one and want it that way just pop it in the notes with the purchase

 

Me:

Thanks for your time

 

James

You're welcome

 

Am I missing something or were we in the wrong all along?

Discussion don't make much sense indeed

Pipes up/down makes no difference, nothing will introduce more air in the system that what is already there and some permeation

What matters is just to not have this air glurgling in the pump block, so don't put the block above all the rest of the loop (tubes and rad), that's all

 

[wONKEyeYEs]

43 minutes ago, RobGMun said:

pipes up top or bottom?

 

I had an aio mounted front with tubes up.

Started having gurgling noises.

Was caused by air migrating to the highest point, at the tubes at the rad.
Flipped the rad to tubes down and gurgling went away.

This will not hurt your pump, just noisy.

41 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Pipes up/down makes no difference, nothing will introduce more air in the system that what is already there and some permeation

It's not a matter of more air, it's the air that's already there to account for any water expansion from heating.

[RevGAM]

Personally, I feel that there are multiple factors. 

• Strength of flow
• Tube permeability
• AIO build quality
• Air "traps"

One thing that concerns me is that certain places where air is trapped could build up enough air over time that flow would be disrupted. This typically takes years, but it varies based on design, materials and build quality. Traps, which are usually just a turn in the tube, that lead directly to the pump are the worst because I'm unaware of the use of real tattoos with one- way valves to release air, and that means the bubbles will eventually get in. 

 

So, to me, even if one way will result in the best temps, unless you can do maintenance and you actually do it, it's best to position the AIO so that air gets trapped in the radiator. Decreased rad performance is better than a dead pump, after all. 

[TVwazhere]

1 hour ago, RobGMun said:

They would bend around the top of the CPU but of course, you can move them to either orientation just up is more optimal

Under leaves, the pump potentially exposed without liquid ends up with an earlier failure rate

The only way this is true is if the Radiator is below the pump/Waterblock combo. 

 

(Infamous Source)

 

With the RAD always lower than the pump, there is no difference if the tubes are at the top or the bottom; the highest point will always be the pump. It is possible that there was A, a miscommunication, or B, a flaw in their original testing methodology. 

[NorKris]

i would make an argument for "james" claims (assuming the highest point of the rad is higher than the  pump)

 

if air does make it inside the chamber under the pump, how would it ever leave in this setup...

[freeagent]

leet skillz bro 

[Godlygamer23]

The air inside tends to migrate to the highest point, thus if the pump is the highest point, it will tend to migrate there. 

 

If you suppose a situation similar to @TVwazhere image from a GamersNexus video, but where there is no other possible location to mount the radiator, it doesn't matter how it's oriented because the highest point is always the pump. 

 

From my understanding of how the pumps inside work, the coolant is used as a lubricant, thus if you have air sitting inside the pump area, you are starving it of lubricant, similar to the fuel pump in a gas tank if the level gets too low.