Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[Sasha2D]

13 minutes ago, Reclus said:

Since you ask nicely I will repeat myself:

1. The process needs to be finished. There needs to be an impartial investigation completed before anyone should take any side in this.

2. GN's findings and everything that followed should not be treated as the same as Madison's claims as both will require different solutions.

3. Madison is within her right to say anything and everything on Twitter.

4. Madison's claim until the investigation is done is only a claim. There is very little evidence to back it up for now. Other people liking her tweets is not evidence.

5. LMG's response to Madison's allegations came late  but I understand the reasons for it. As they were probably trying to put out one fire and got caught off guard by this. 

6. LMG's 1st response to GN's vid was an absolute disaster, the follow up video was better but made just before Madison made her claim on Twitter in light of which it looked absolutely terrible.

7. Nothing new has been captured by the clip of the mandatory meeting. Standard HR briefing. 

8. Madison should not have waited 2 years. This will be and is the main problem with her claim.

9. I am not refuting, denying or accusing Madison of lying. Please do not assume that.

10. I don't follow the trend to just believe any of the sides until the investigation is over. There are no leanings or percentages to be assigned to this. 0 endorsement until we have some crucial findings.

11. Madison's claims are very bad to read. If the investigation confirms them, legal action should follow. Appropriate legal action.

12. If Linus really spoke with xqc i have to say he is looking for advice or comfort really in a wrong place and Yvonne should just lock him up in a room with no internet until this is done.

13. The fanboys here defending LMG  from evidence GN has produced and the awful post Linus made after the video are blind and unable to see reason.

14. The feminists here that say Madison is basically a saint and I am evil for questioning her claims are blind and unable to see reason.

 

 

 

 

Thats not what I asked. I asked what do you personally think? What would you bet on, true or false.

[Someona]

11 minutes ago, Reclus said:

Since you ask nicely I will repeat myself:

1. The process needs to be finished. There needs to be an impartial investigation completed before anyone should take any side in this.

2. GN's findings and everything that followed should not be treated as the same as Madison's claims as both will require different solutions.

3. Madison is within her right to say anything and everything on Twitter.

4. Madison's claim until the investigation is done is only a claim. There is very little evidence to back it up for now. Other people liking her tweets is not evidence.

5. LMG's response to Madison's allegations came late  but I understand the reasons for it. As they were probably trying to put out one fire and got caught off guard by this. 

6. LMG's 1st response to GN's vid was an absolute disaster, the follow up video was better but made just before Madison made her claim on Twitter in light of which it looked absolutely terrible.

7. Nothing new has been captured by the clip of the mandatory meeting. Standard HR briefing. 

8. Madison should not have waited 2 years. This will be and is the main problem with her claim.

9. I am not refuting, denying or accusing Madison of lying. Please do not assume that.

10. I don't follow the trend to just believe any of the sides until the investigation is over. There are no leanings or percentages to be assigned to this. 0 endorsement until we have some crucial findings.

11. Madison's claims are very bad to read. If the investigation confirms them, legal action should follow. Appropriate legal action.

12. If Linus really spoke with xqc i have to say he is looking for advice or comfort really in a wrong place and Yvonne should just lock him up in a room with no internet until this is done.

13. The fanboys here defending LMG  from evidence GN has produced and the awful post Linus made after the video are blind and unable to see reason.

14. The feminists here that say Madison is basically a saint and I am evil for questioning her claims are blind and unable to see reason.

 

 

 

15. The "centrists" who say that both parties have equal evidence to prove their claims and act as being perfectly neutral is the most reasonable position at the moment are unable to see reason. 

 

You fall under this group.

 

 

[Reclus]

2 minutes ago, Sasha2D said:

 

Thats not what I asked. I asked what do you personally think? What would you bet on, true or false.

Believe it or not, this is what I actually think.

I've been here on this planet long enough to learn that placing bets on circumstantial claims can only result in being made look a fool if you bet wrong. And until you have evidence and you are absolutely certain of, going on your gut feeling creates unease and discomfort for yourself if the result isn't to your liking. Instead of dealing with the outcome you get defensive and try to wall yourself off from everyone you disagreed with earlier. You very quickly alienate a lot of people or create a lot of enemies. It isn't worth it to guess on what people have said. It is difficult at first to remain impartial because the topics usually boil your blood. And people are unforgiving and will literally say anything to drag you to their side. For instance they will try and ask "what about your daughter?" or "what if this was your company?"

But simply until you have all the possible info - impartial.

    

[Sasha2D]

9 minutes ago, Reclus said:

Believe it or not, this is what I actually think.

I've been here on this planet long enough to learn that placing bets on circumstantial claims can only result in being made look a fool if you bet wrong. And until you have evidence and you are absolutely certain of, going on your gut feeling creates unease and discomfort for yourself if the result isn't to your liking. Instead of dealing with the outcome you get defensive and try to wall yourself off from everyone you disagreed with earlier. You very quickly alienate a lot of people or create a lot of enemies. It isn't worth it to guess on what people have said. It is difficult at first to remain impartial because the topics usually boil your blood. And people are unforgiving and will literally say anything to drag you to their side. For instance they will try and ask "what about your daughter?" or "what if this was your company?"

But simply until you have all the possible info - impartial.

    

 

No but you see, I'm asking you. You don't have money on the output. There is no great loss for you betting either way. It is a straightforward question, what way would you see as most likely? 

[Reclus]

Just now, Sasha2D said:

 

No but you see, I'm asking you. You don't have money on the output. There is no great loss for you betting either way. It is a straightforward question, what way would you see as most likely? 

Why is it so important that I give you my guess on this? I am genuinely intrigued.  

[Sasha2D]

11 minutes ago, Reclus said:

Why is it so important that I give you my guess on this? I am genuinely intrigued.  

 

Its an interesting metric. 

[digitalscream]

16 minutes ago, Someona said:

15. The "centrists" who say that both parties have equal evidence to prove their claims and act as being perfectly neutral is the most reasonable position at the moment are unable to see reason. 

 

You fall under this group.

 

 

That's a bit unfair - it's perfectly reasonable for @Reclus to say "I'm going to wait, because I don't have enough information to decide one way or the other". That's not the same as saying that both parties have equal evidence. In fact, nobody has actually produced any evidence at this point, and even more importantly there aren't actually any sides at all yet, because a) Madison hasn't named anybody, and b) LMG haven't disputed anything because they haven't got enough information to do so.

 

If his own personal experience dictates that it still looks like it could go either way, pushing him to pick a side is playground stuff and is essentially creating conflict for the sake of itself, which achieves nothing. This isn't a war with barbarians at the gates, there is no need to invent sides and force everyone to pick one.

 

Personally, I disagree with him in that I can see any number of likely scenarios in which Madison's claims are substantially true, and very few in which they're not. That disagreement doesn't mean that I'm imagining that there is no reason in his position, though.

[Reclus]

8 minutes ago, Sasha2D said:

 

Its an interesting metric. 

Currently it would be a roll of dice.

It's the weight of accusations in lieu of GN's video vs the timing of Maddison's claim and the lack of hard evidence.

Again. This is until better information comes to light.

[SilentSword99]

5 minutes ago, digitalscream said:

That's a bit unfair - it's perfectly reasonable for @Reclus to say "I'm going to wait, because I don't have enough information to decide one way or the other". That's not the same as saying that both parties have equal evidence. In fact, nobody has actually produced any evidence at this point, and even more importantly there aren't actually any sides at all yet, because a) Madison hasn't named anybody, and b) LMG haven't disputed anything because they haven't got enough information to do so.

 

If his own personal experience dictates that it still looks like it could go either way, pushing him to pick a side is playground stuff and is essentially creating conflict for the sake of itself, which achieves nothing. This isn't a war with barbarians at the gates, there is no need to invent sides and force everyone to pick one.

 

Personally, I disagree with him in that I can see any number of likely scenarios in which Madison's claims are substantially true, and very few in which they're not. That disagreement doesn't mean that I'm imagining that there is no reason in his position, though.

I also believe that it’s likely part if not all of what Madison claims is true. However, I hate this attitude a lot of people have of “anyone who says wait for evidence is an incel loser”. I got permanently banned on the subreddit for questioning this exact stance by a moderator. Personal attacks, division, and hate are way too rampant when there are disagreements online. 

[Sasha2D]

11 minutes ago, SilentSword99 said:

However, I hate this attitude a lot of people have of “anyone who says wait for evidence is an incel loser”

 

I'm sure you think this of me but I have only said this against people ranting about women. 

[SilentSword99]

3 minutes ago, Sasha2D said:

 

I'm sure you think this of me but I have only said this against people ranting about women. 

Sorry, was not trying to call you out. Your stance is reasonable and we should not be calling anyone a liar. Meant my message more for some of the more extreme posts here in the last few pages and on Reddit. 

[ScoggsUK]

Seriously, is there any point to continuing this town square gossip in this thread? 

 

It appears its being looked at, can we call it a day? 

[saintlouisbagels]

Not until the good guys are correct and the bad guys are wrong!!

[Cosmic Emotion]

LMAO, so Youtube is recommending the following video (to someone who is not even subbed to LTT and never was) and some GIGAchad has marked all the demeaning moments of Linus against Madison. Just go to newest comments.

 

 

This is the problem dear LMG. You focus too much on being silly instead of being funny.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Reclus said:

I'm going to tread lightly now so that I don't get launched into the stratosphere but I feel like now, at page 138; this thread has turned into a handful of people just chasing each other around in circles. But basically:

 

Instead of having the reasonable thought of "Hey, we should wait how this plays out", many of you have reached the conclusion that she is a woman and she is beyond any critic and should not be questioned on evidence or motives as it hurts your point of view.  Not all of you of course but it has been a troubling trend. 

 

I expect a very recycled response to this message. 

You're making the assumption most of the people still in the thread aren't basically 3 influence agents just making posts and arguing against themselves, which is normally what topic like these end up as over time on the Internet.  Though this thread is basically at end until the new one when LMG gives their next official response.

 

I'll end my time in this thread in noting that Madison's Twitter thread was a very well constructed social media attack. Everything that we would consider a work place environment issue is devoid of context or specifics of the actors, allowing others to fill in the gaps with their preconceived notions. If you re-read the thread, we don't even know if the person(s) Madison had negative interactions with were male or female. Both "horrible jock culture" and "mean girls run amok" fit her statements. ("Mean Girls problems" actually fits most of the accusations better, as it's a very weird conversation where a man would ask her about her boyfriend's sexual history.) This allows for maximum discussion cycles without any details intruding on people's self-inserting of experiences. As we see pretty constantly in this thread (and in any other charged, vague topic generally on the Internet). 

 

With some of the further contexts and tidbits, I stand by my position this isn't going to end well and Madison should have gotten proper legal counsel a long time ago. Catharsis can be achieved in many ways. Let us hope this one wasn't the wrong one.

[svar]

No matter what is true or not, hiring someone based on what the fanbase want you to do, does not sounds like a smart move.
That is just as smart as giving someone a raise every time someone in the comments thinks so

[Kangar]

1 hour ago, Reclus said:

12. If Linus really spoke with xqc i have to say he is looking for advice or comfort really in a wrong place and Yvonne should just lock him up in a room with no internet until this is done.

I should have not laughed so hard at that, but yeah, Linus and XQC...

[Kangar]

29 minutes ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

LMAO, so Youtube is recommending the following video (to someone who is not even subbed to LTT and never was) and some GIGAchad has marked all the demeaning moments of Linus against Madison. Just go to newest comments.

 

 

This is the problem dear LMG. You focus too much on being silly instead of being funny.

Not that vid, I have seen it 12 times already before because I really loved the dynamic and how they talked there, I cannot watch LTT and it's on my recommendations as always, all this stuff makes me feel weird seeing them again, I'll wait

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Swaggless said:

B) If you see a person makes sexual jokes, and you therefore think it's okay to touch them sexually, you're bad at reading boundaries.

If you touch a person sexually without their explicit consent, you are also guilty of assault and should be charged as such.  

[Cosmic Emotion]

4 minutes ago, Kangar said:

Not that vid, I have seen it 12 times already before because I really loved the dynamic and how they talked there, I cannot watch LTT and it's on my recommendations as always, all this stuff makes me feel weird seeing them again, I'll wait

I had never seen Madison in a video before. I'm glad I did. She seems like a really smart person, even though she doesn't have a clue about what's going on in this one. Still, she was awesome. It's sad she was so mistreated.

[Someona]

57 minutes ago, digitalscream said:

That's a bit unfair - it's perfectly reasonable for @Reclus to say "I'm going to wait, because I don't have enough information to decide one way or the other". That's not the same as saying that both parties have equal evidence. In fact, nobody has actually produced any evidence at this point, and even more importantly there aren't actually any sides at all yet, because a) Madison hasn't named anybody, and b) LMG haven't disputed anything because they haven't got enough information to do so.

 

If his own personal experience dictates that it still looks like it could go either way, pushing him to pick a side is playground stuff and is essentially creating conflict for the sake of itself, which achieves nothing. This isn't a war with barbarians at the gates, there is no need to invent sides and force everyone to pick one.

 

Personally, I disagree with him in that I can see any number of likely scenarios in which Madison's claims are substantially true, and very few in which they're not. That disagreement doesn't mean that I'm imagining that there is no reason in his position, though.

 

I didn't say him saying "I'm going to wait, because I don't have enough information to decide one way or the other" is unreasonable,

I implied him saying that his position is the only position one that's reasonable and calling people who believe in the other side blind/fanboys" is unreasonable.

 

You see the difference?

 

And what do you mean by "you can see any scenario that is true", you mean you have evidence or your guts tells you they're true?

 

In my opinion "innocent, until proven guilty" is a solid concept and blindly trusting the words of unreliable/unstable people (slicing own leg to take a day off at work) without any evidence two years after the fact is unreasonable. (Among the other evidence, like posing in sexual positions at work/telling sex jokes to your boss (Tulips (two lips) on this nuts) for TikTok, but then complaining of sexual topics at work etc and etc)

[Kisai]

1 minute ago, Mutex01 said:

If you touch a person sexually without their explicit consent, you are also guilty of assault and should be charged as such.  

 

And that's where people tend to forget the difference between doing something intentionally/maliciously and misreading intent. It's very easy to smack someone in the chest or the butt without meaning to, especially people who tend to talk with their hands, and people who are just inherently clumsy. This is even a very obvious trope in fiction, where person intentionally runs into the subject of their affection to "meet" them. Once is mistake, multiple times is stalker behavior.

 

Anime fans also tend to misread intent a lot more because things like kabedon in anime, is seen as an affectionate move, but pulling that off in real life is far more likely be be read a threat (it's literately forcing someone against the wall.)

 

Which is why it's far easier right now to assume a more neutral position on the Madison vs unnamed individuals at LMG, because we don't know who, and we don't know why. We just know pieces far-after-the-fact from the aggrieved party that they chose to share. 

 

For all we know it was an escalation that started with one staffer and snowballed to making Madison feeling like she's being ganged up on.

 

[Taor13]

Just made an account, just because reading some of the replies in this thread made me really wonder whats going on in these peoples mind.

 

1. You are not a judge. Innocent until proven guilty applies to courts, not random people. A. because most people don't have the ability to conduct an in-depth investigation and B. whatever these people think, it doesn't have any legal consequences. I guarantee that everyone who says that holds some opinion that isn't entirely based on facts or evidence, its just a convenient excuse in this situation.

2. Insisting on getting evidence for something that is by its nature very hard to prove once its happened feels either stupid or malignant. If evidence comes out - great. Dismissing the accusations entirely based on evidence the accuser just cant provide if no one else speaks up or if they didnt film/tape whatever happens, feels like a convenient way to get out of all this.

3. Motive and opportunity matters. Even without concrete evidence, its entirely possible to say which version of events is more likely. SH is something that is incredibly commonplace in society. Sure, false accusations happen, but just comparing the numbers of true and false accusations, they are rare. Plus, it seems fairly unlikely that Madison fabricated this story over 2 years, just to wait for someone else to take a shot at LTT and then jump the wagon. Colin seems to confirm that her story hasn't changed since she was employed, she has written a Glassdoor review a year ago that fits with her story and there is fairly little to gain from speaking up now, unless you want to believe she planned this over 2 years to what - get more Twitch subs? Sure, that could be - it seems incredibly unlikely to me. Plus the whole doxxing and harassment she would face from certain parts of the LTT fanbase.

4. Certain people in this thread focus on specific accusations and disregard them without mentioning the other accusations. Saying "what if the sexual remarks where jokes" seems really tone-deaf when she mentions other things that fall in the same line, like being forced to administrate an Onlyfans account and all the comments and nude pictures on that account or being touched inappropriately. I won't even mention the numerous attempts to discredit her character based on bullshit.

[fan0m]

21 minutes ago, Taor13 said:

Just made an account, just because reading some of the replies in this thread made me really wonder whats going on in these peoples mind.

 

1. You are not a judge. Innocent until proven guilty applies to courts, not random people. A. because most people don't have the ability to conduct an in-depth investigation and B. whatever these people think, it doesn't have any legal consequences. I guarantee that everyone who says that holds some opinion that isn't entirely based on facts or evidence, its just a convenient excuse in this situation.

2. Insisting on getting evidence for something that is by its nature very hard to prove once its happened feels either stupid or malignant. If evidence comes out - great. Dismissing the accusations entirely based on evidence the accuser just cant provide if no one else speaks up or if they didnt film/tape whatever happens, feels like a convenient way to get out of all this.

3. Motive and opportunity matters. Even without concrete evidence, its entirely possible to say which version of events is more likely. SH is something that is incredibly commonplace in society. Sure, false accusations happen, but just comparing the numbers of true and false accusations, they are rare. Plus, it seems fairly unlikely that Madison fabricated this story over 2 years, just to wait for someone else to take a shot at LTT and then jump the wagon. Colin seems to confirm that her story hasn't changed since she was employed, she has written a Glassdoor review a year ago that fits with her story and there is fairly little to gain from speaking up now, unless you want to believe she planned this over 2 years to what - get more Twitch subs? Sure, that could be - it seems incredibly unlikely to me. Plus the whole doxxing and harassment she would face from certain parts of the LTT fanbase.

4. Certain people in this thread focus on specific accusations and disregard them without mentioning the other accusations. Saying "what if the sexual remarks where jokes" seems really tone-deaf when she mentions other things that fall in the same line, like being forced to administrate an Onlyfans account and all the comments and nude pictures on that account or being touched inappropriately. I won't even mention the numerous attempts to discredit her character based on bullshit.

I'm actually convinced some of the people here have not interacted with a live human being, ever.

[digitalscream]

12 minutes ago, Someona said:

I didn't say him saying "I'm going to wait, because I don't have enough information to decide one way or the other" is unreasonable,

I implied him saying that his position is the only position one that's reasonable and calling people who believe in the other side blind/fanboys" is unreasonable.

 

You see the difference?

Well, if that's what you meant, your statement under #15 came across as somewhat ambiguous, but fair enough.

 

15 minutes ago, Someona said:

And what do you mean by "you can see any scenario that is true", you mean you have evidence or your guts tells you they're true?

I didn't say that I can see any scenario that is true. My exact words were...

 

1 hour ago, digitalscream said:

...I can see any number of likely scenarios in which Madison's claims are substantially true, and very few in which they're not.

For explanation as to my meaning....

 

"I can see" == "I can imagine"

"any number" == "a lot"

"very few" == "not many, but not zero either"

"substantially" == "the substance of, perhaps not the exact details"

 

I already went through one of the "likely" scenarios with Reclus earlier in the thread - point is, I can imagine an awful lot of ways the spirit of her claims can have happened in a company like LMG, but not many in which none of it can possibly have happened. That's based purely on my experience in similar companies over the last 30 years, others' experiences are likely different.

 

As for "innocent until proven guilty", that works both ways at the moment:

 

- Nobody has been accused of these actions yet, so there isn't anybody to be innocent or guilty; a corporation, as an entity, cannot be guilty of any of these offences, so it comes down to when specific people are named.

- Many have accused Madison of lying, does she get the benefit of "innocent until proven guilty" on that too? It seems not.

 

As for the mentally unstable part...here's the thing: there are lots of conditions in which somebody has poor mental health and poor decision-making as a result which don't involve distortion of perception and memory (and the ones which do are usually not ones you can recover from without significant intervention). And, lest we forget, it's already been confirmed by a third party that none of her story has changed between then and now. If there was distortion of memory involved due to either the elapsed time or the poor mental health at the time (or both), it's highly unlikely that would be the case.