Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[mikaelus]

18 hours ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

Have you even been on Reddit/X? LMG is already gone. I have just grabbed my pop corn for the grand finale. Madison took them out single-handedly which is SOOOO freaking awesome!

It's nice that you think Reddit and Twitter are representative of anything

[Rob2k21]

Im sure Madison used to make loads of risky/sexual references post on twitter, its why i stopped follwing her ages ago. just went to look at past tweets but theres nothing before the accustaion thread. nothing loads up before that thread or is that some sort of settings option?

[HesCalledTheStig]

2 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

It's nice that you think Reddit and Twitter are representative of anything

Gotta love how enthusiastic he is at the possibility of over 100 people, most of whom had nothing to do with the issue at hand, being left unemployed. Typical toxic social media trash. 

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, DakotaCx said:

This topic has reached the point where the posts are just starting to repeat the same talking points, views, ideas, etc all over. 

Of course, because some people came here because they see an opportunity to punch down against someone who isn't going to come here to defend themselves. "Free shots" so to speak.

 

So some people on the forum are going to defend them because that's the right thing to do.

 

Like it constantly amazes me how there are corners of the internet that the women-hating cabal decide to get the pitchforks out every time they think one of "their" bro's are in trouble, and then absolutely get dunked on when they start saying the same BS anti-women talking points. If they say that in the real world, and someone is ripping them a new one.

 

Linus is not one of their "bros", he is a big celebrity in the tech space and is not helped by hate-driven people coming here and using it as an excuse to punch down on female LMG staff past or present.

 

Unfortunately, this comes into a problem with moderation. Moderators can't actively delete posts from a thread during a shitstorm, because it will bring the forum down, and they will be accused of censorship by doing so. Both the GN thread and this thread are being posted to by people who have no posting history on the forum prior to those threads. They didn't come here to have a conversation, they came here with their buckets of gasoline to throw. There are also some people who DO have a posting history, and have pulled out some pretty gross statements against women.

 

The right thing to do, after the investigation finds little or nothing to substantiate the claims would be to delete/hide this thread so that it doesn't create further liability for LMG.  If it's found the claims are true, or worse, then LMG should straight up lock the forums for a month, because nothing good will come from allowing the official forum to devolve in this manner. Lock it, scrub the forum of every post talking about Madison after she left LMG by anyone who isn't staff. 

 

[Cosmic Emotion]

7 minutes ago, HesCalledTheStig said:

You do realize that this is happening from both sides right? 
 

I’m sure she’s far from laughing. I guarantee you she’s questioning if it was the right thing to do now because she probably has a ton of psycho LTT fans harassing her and ALSO a ton of white knights acting like they are there to save the day for her. 

Wishful thinking.

[Cosmic Emotion]

3 minutes ago, HesCalledTheStig said:

Gotta love how enthusiastic he is at the possibility of over 100 people, most of whom had nothing to do with the issue at hand, being left unemployed. Typical toxic social media trash. 

You seem to be excited about Madison being afraid to come out with has happened to her. I want the good, you want the bad. Do your math.

[HesCalledTheStig]

Just now, Cosmic Emotion said:

You seem to be excited about Madison being afraid to come out with has happened to her. I want the good, you want the bad. Do your math.

Please point out to me where I was excited about any such thing. I’ll wait. 

[Mertrodome]

2 minutes ago, Rob2k21 said:

Im sure Madison used to make loads of risky/sexual references post on twitter, its why i stopped follwing her ages ago. just went to look at past tweets but theres nothing before the accustaion thread. nothing loads up before that thread or is that some sort of settings option?

Why would it matter if she did? I can understand it being not to your taste and a reason to unfollow her, obviously. But someone making such jokes on their own time on social media does not make it any more acceptable for people to make the kind of "jokes" she mentioned in a workplace, especially the ones directed at her.

 

Is this the social media equivalent of "if she didn't want those comments she shouldn't dress that way"? It literally makes no difference what she says on her personal time, you don't get to ask "how she likes to fuck" or suggest interpersonal problems are "just sexual tension" in a working environment.

[GG-545]

So, I've been reading this thread since the start, but finally decided it was time I commented, and at least try to rectify some stuff here, as I was victim of harassment (although not sexual) in the work place, and went through a so-called "third party" investigation.

 

First off, the amount of toxicity and misogyny in this thread is absolutely disgusting.

 

For the people saying, "why didn't she do X or Y ?"  You have to understand that working in a toxic environment and being the victim of harassment takes a toll on you, and destroys you at the very core. After, I "got out", it took almost a year to get back up the hole I was in, and almost two years to get my confidence back. To start looking for a job, applying, interviewing etc. while you are made to feel worthless everyday is extremely difficult.

 

Concerning the (alleged) self-harm, I totally get why someone would do that in that situation.  Never did it myself, but if you'd feel you had no other choice, I understand why you would.

I "got out" when I finally seek help for my situation, and even that was not easy, because I felt like it was a failure to do so. Like I wasn't "strong" enough to keep working there, and therefore it was "my" failure. It felt like I was "giving up", and therefore my "tormentors" were "right".

 

This is the mental state you're in when this kind of stuff happens to you.

 

I'm a 6"2, 220 lbs guy by the way. I was 33 when that happened to me. So this kind of stuff can happen to anybody, at any age.

 

1 hour ago, fastferry said:

My question for the investigators would then be:  did LMG bait and switch the job descriptions as she described?  That's a labour law fail, even if she was too young/naive/disorganized to keep a paper trail.  Did she "already give up her visa" (as she described) before or after signing a contract?  (If before:  that's on her for being impulsive.)  Which contract did she sign?  And can employment contracts have legal jargon that says, "we reserve the right to totally change your duties on your first day?"

 

This is the main thing I wanted to comment on in this thread actually.

I feel people have unrealistic expectations of this "third party" investigation.

 

That investigation is not going to prove nor disprove Madison's claims. They won't be looking at what happened two years ago. They are there to analyse the current work environment, find potential problems, and suggests solutions. Nothing more.

This investigation is not gonna say "Madison's claims were true/false", you can forget about that.

 

I also saw a lot of calls for "accountability" and "justice" (here and on Reddit). That's not going to happen either. The investigation is not there to bring "justice" nor to "held people accountable". It's there to protect the company.

 

So if sexual harassment is taking place, the report of the investigation is not going to say "X has sexually harassed  Y". it's going to say something like "Employees are reporting that there is a lot of sex talk and sex jokes made in the office, and some of the employees perceive them as sexual harassment".

 

This is the kind of stuff you'll find in the investigation's report. Nobody will be directly name in the report.

if somebody is fired about any of this, it's because the Higher-ups at LMG decide to. Not because the report say so. And, in my experience, if these people were "protected" before the investigation, they will be protected after as well.

 

So again, the investigation is not gonna get involve in problems between two employees. Their report will be a lot more "broad-based", and will talk about "generic" situations, not specific ones.

 

They will analyse the current work conditions (mostly by interviewing employees), report the potential problems, and suggest solutions.

 

And LMG is under no obligation to follow any of the suggested solutions.

 

So, just because an investigation happens, does not mean the situation will improve.

 

in my case, my problems at work started after the investigation happened. The investigation was triggered because two employees committed suicide (different team than mine, but same "n+1" manager). At that time, I wasn't a "target" yet, but I know of other colleagues who shared openly with the investigators what they were going through.

Anyway, I eventually made the "naughty list", and the harassment started.

So the investigation did absolutely nothing to help the employees.

I was the fifth person to leave after the investigation happened (in a team of 25 people), and I'm sure hoping I wasn't the last. The only news I got after that, wasn't good, as the problematic manager actually cranked it up a notch.

 

As for the union talk, my union did help with some specific problems (I had 2500€ in wages withheld by that manager with no legal reason whatsoever, and the union did help with that), but when it came to harassment and toxic workplace, the only thing they could do was trigger another "third party" investigation, but they were reticent to do so as the other one was still "fresh".

 

Anyway, here it is. My story and my opinions.

 

I most likely won't be reading nor responding to comments on this, as I don't think I have the mental strength to deal with some of the people here.

 

 

[Reclus]

2 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Of course, because some people came here because they see an opportunity to punch down against someone who isn't going to come here to defend themselves. "Free shots" so to speak.

 

So some people on the forum are going to defend them because that's the right thing to do.

 

Like it constantly amazes me how there are corners of the internet that the women-hating cabal decide to get the pitchforks out every time they think one of "their" bro's are in trouble, and then absolutely get dunked on when they start saying the same BS anti-women talking points. If they say that in the real world, and someone is ripping them a new one.

 

Linus is not one of their "bros", he is a big celebrity in the tech space and is not helped by hate-driven people coming here and using it as an excuse to punch down on female LMG staff past or present.

 

Unfortunately, this comes into a problem with moderation. Moderators can't actively delete posts from a thread during a shitstorm, because it will bring the forum down, and they will be accused of censorship by doing so. Both the GN thread and this thread are being posted to by people who have no posting history on the forum prior to those threads. They didn't come here to have a conversation, they came here with their buckets of gasoline to throw. There are also some people who DO have a posting history, and have pulled out some pretty gross statements against women.

 

The right thing to do, after the investigation finds little or nothing to substantiate the claims would be to delete/hide this thread so that it doesn't create further liability for LMG.  If it's found the claims are true, or worse, then LMG should straight up lock the forums for a month, because nothing good will come from allowing the official forum to devolve in this manner. Lock it, scrub the forum of every post talking about Madison after she left LMG by anyone who isn't staff. 

 

See I am right there with you on the women hating, until you forget to mention that there is also the side of angry pitchfork mob that wants to burn down LMG and everyone around it purely on the basis of Maddison Twitter posts that until verified are unsubstantiated claims - because misogyny.

Seems like you have no problem seeing one side and damming the other. Also, immediately going into the moderation and banning? What would be the aim of that? An echo chamber? That's what Reddit is for. I actually appreciate the fact that there are many voices in this despite disagreeing with some of them. Sometimes very deeply disagreeing. Lessons learned should not be erased because it was hard to learn them. This absolutely should stay in here as a lesson and a warning.

[Cosmic Emotion]

1 minute ago, HesCalledTheStig said:

Please point out to me where I was excited about any such thing. I’ll wait. 

Quote

I guarantee you she’s questioning if it was the right thing to do now because she probably has a ton of psycho LTT fans harassing her and ALSO a ton of white knights acting like they are there to save the day for her. 

Seems pretty excited to me. You wanted to prove a point, which was:
 

Quote

You do realize that this is happening from both sides right? 

 

You, like many others, think that proving a point to yourself, proves the point to everyone else and you have won the argument. Simple logic and rationality eludes you. The only thing you do by these robotic arguments like "Let's wait and see what happens" or "You have no proof of what's happened" misses the simple basic fact that it's obvious what's going on and what's happened.

People have made up their mind already for a reason. Why in heaven's name would Madison say all this if LMG was kind to her and risk getting sued by them?

 

Or even better, why in heaven's name hasn't LMG sued her already?!

 

Next time you go on a forum or social media think about the obviousality of things. Cause, otherwise, people will just think you're below expectations.

 

PS: If you didn't get how I made my point about you being excited it's because you're too far gone in your logic to understand it.

[Rob2k21]

Just now, Mertrodome said:

Why would it matter if she did? I can understand it being not to your taste and a reason to unfollow her, obviously. But someone making such jokes on their own time on social media does not make it any more acceptable for people to make the kind of "jokes" she mentioned in a workplace, especially the ones directed at her.

 

Is this the social media equivalent of "if she didn't want those comments she shouldn't dress that way"? It literally makes no difference what she says on her personal time, you don't get to ask "how she likes to fuck" or suggest interpersonal problems are "just sexual tension" in a working environment.

then why delete them ? just wondering cos i remember some of them being really bad, thats why i went to look but they have all gone and i think it does matter especially  if staff follwed and read her post and if it came to a court case it would most definitely matter ... but it'll come down to an investigation like it should do, i just found it odd as to why the tweets have all gone

[HesCalledTheStig]

1 minute ago, Cosmic Emotion said:

Seems pretty excited to me. You wanted to prove a point, which was:
 

 

You, like many others, think that proving a point to yourself, proves the point to everyone else and you have won the argument. Simple logic and rationality eludes you. The only thing you do by these robotic arguments like "Let's wait and see what happens" or "You have no proof of what's happened" misses the simple basic fact that it's obvious what's going on and what's happened.

People have made up their mind already for a reason. Why in heaven's name would Madison say all this if LMG was kind to her and risk getting sued by them?

 

Or even better, why in heaven's name hasn't LMG sued her already?!

 

Next time you go on a forum or social media think about the obviousality of things. Cause, otherwise, people will just think you're below expectations.

 

PS: If you didn't get how I made my point about you being excited it's because you're too far gone in your logic to understand it.

I’m not even going to address any of this.  You’ve twisted words to fit your narrative like 90% of the people posting here. 
 

I stand by my decision to watch things play out before choosing sides. I don’t doubt Madison at all. I hope those that wronged her are dealt with. But, LMG is more than just those people. I hate the thought of anyone being punished for what they were not a part of. 

[SeanTQuk]

This one's been in the missile silo for two years. I'm sure that's against submarine protocol.

[Reclus]

3 minutes ago, GG-545 said:

So, I've been reading this thread since the start, but finally decided it was time I commented, and at least try to rectify some stuff here, as I was victim of harassment (although not sexual) in the work place, and went through a so-called "third party" investigation.

 

First off, the amount of toxicity and misogyny in this thread is absolutely disgusting.

 

For the people saying, "why didn't she do X or Y ?"  You have to understand that working in a toxic environment and being the victim of harassment takes a toll on you, and destroys you at the very core. After, I "got out", it took almost a year to get back up the hole I was in, and almost two years to get my confidence back. To start looking for a job, applying, interviewing etc. while you are made to feel worthless everyday is extremely difficult.

 

Concerning the (alleged) self-harm, I totally get why someone would do that in that situation.  Never did it myself, but if you'd feel you had no other choice, I understand why you would.

I "got out" when I finally seek help for my situation, and even that was not easy, because I felt like it was a failure to do so. Like I wasn't "strong" enough to keep working there, and therefore it was "my" failure. It felt like I was "giving up", and therefore my "tormentors" were "right".

 

This is the mental state you're in when this kind of stuff happens to you.

 

I'm a 6"2, 220 lbs guy by the way. I was 33 when that happened to me. So this kind of stuff can happen to anybody, at any age.

 

 

This is the main thing I wanted to comment on in this thread actually.

I feel people have unrealistic expectations of this "third party" investigation.

 

That investigation is not going to prove nor disprove Madison's claims. They won't be looking at what happened two years ago. They are there to analyse the current work environment, find potential problems, and suggests solutions. Nothing more.

This investigation is not gonna say "Madison's claims were true/false", you can forget about that.

 

I also saw a lot of calls for "accountability" and "justice" (here and on Reddit). That's not going to happen either. The investigation is not there to bring "justice" nor to "held people accountable". It's there to protect the company.

 

So if sexual harassment is taking place, the report of the investigation is not going to say "X has sexually harassed  Y". it's going to say something like "Employees are reporting that there is a lot of sex talk and sex jokes made in the office, and some of the employees perceive them as sexual harassment".

 

This is the kind of stuff you'll find in the investigation's report. Nobody will be directly name in the report.

if somebody is fired about any of this, it's because the Higher-ups at LMG decide to. Not because the report say so. And, in my experience, if these people were "protected" before the investigation, they will be protected after as well.

 

So again, the investigation is not gonna get involve in problems between two employees. Their report will be a lot more "broad-based", and will talk about "generic" situations, not specific ones.

 

They will analyse the current work conditions (mostly by interviewing employees), report the potential problems, and suggest solutions.

 

And LMG is under no obligation to follow any of the suggested solutions.

 

So, just because an investigation happens, does not mean the situation will improve.

 

in my case, my problems at work started after the investigation happened. The investigation was triggered because two employees committed suicide (different team than mine, but same "n+1" manager). At that time, I wasn't a "target" yet, but I know of other colleagues who shared openly with the investigators what they were going through.

Anyway, I eventually made the "naughty list", and the harassment started.

So the investigation did absolutely nothing to help the employees.

I was the fifth person to leave after the investigation happened (in a team of 25 people), and I'm sure hoping I wasn't the last. The only news I got after that, wasn't good, as the problematic manager actually cranked it up a notch.

 

As for the union talk, my union did help with some specific problems (I had 2500€ in wages withheld by that manager with no legal reason whatsoever, and the union did help with that), but when it came to harassment and toxic workplace, the only thing they could do was trigger another "third party" investigation, but they were reticent to do so as the other one was still "fresh".

 

Anyway, here it is. My story and my opinions.

 

I most likely won't be reading nor responding to comments on this, as I don't think I have the mental strength to deal with some of the people here.

 

 

There never is an easy way to say this.

You have to take responsibility for what happens to you. There is no one else that understands you better than yourself. This means overcoming hardships, stress, conflict.

Unfortunately you are wrong. People do not need to understand how difficult it is to overcome those things. People have their own problems. I can sympathise with your situation and still see how you have gotten yourself into it. What matters to you almost definitely does not matter to others. 

Clearly this topic resonates with you due to your own experience. From an unbiased position the word I would use is projection.

[itshurleytime]

23 minutes ago, Mertrodome said:

Why would it matter if she did? I can understand it being not to your taste and a reason to unfollow her, obviously. But someone making such jokes on their own time on social media does not make it any more acceptable for people to make the kind of "jokes" she mentioned in a workplace, especially the ones directed at her.

 

Is this the social media equivalent of "if she didn't want those comments she shouldn't dress that way"? It literally makes no difference what she says on her personal time, you don't get to ask "how she likes to fuck" or suggest interpersonal problems are "just sexual tension" in a working environment.

Why would it matter if she did?

 

If you habitually make risque and immature jokes, people are going to assume you are comfortable with risque and immature jokes.  If it was within her boundaries/consent for it when she started and it changed so she was no longer comfortable with it at work, she didn't inform the person that was offending her (which is the most basic form of conflict resolution).

It's not about her 'asking for it'.  It's like giving consent for something, and then when you no longer consent only telling your work clique.

[HesCalledTheStig]

3 minutes ago, itshurleytime said:

Why would it matter if she did?

 

If you habitually make risque and immature jokes, people are going to assume you are comfortable with risque and immature jokes.  If it was within her boundaries/consent for it when she started and it changed so she was no longer comfortable with it at work, she didn't inform the person that was offending her (which is the most basic form of conflict resolution).

It's not about her 'asking for it'.  It's like giving consent for something, and then when you no longer consent only telling your work clique.

Wrong. On so many levels. Just because a person jokes doesn’t mean it’s fair game to cross a line. 
 

And how do you know she didn’t inform the person?

[itshurleytime]

Just now, HesCalledTheStig said:

Wrong. On so many levels. Just because a person jokes doesn’t mean it’s fair game to cross a line. 

The line is not always clear.  If she says 'you stuck it in the wrong hole' and smirks, and then the next day you make a similar joke and now that's across the line, how is a person supposed to know they crossed the line?

[Booch121]

41 minutes ago, Reclus said:

Well the easiest way to explain this from my end would be that mental issues is now a very overused term and ranges from stress about a bill to... well that's the problem. There isn't a clear answer. More over by her own claim: She has harmed herself to have a day off. I am not saying she can't provide a testimony. I am saying that it is very easy to put a lot of holes in it due to this. Mental issues is not a get out of jail free card that allows you to say everything without being scrutinised. The very opposite. It lowers your reliability and introduces a lot more questions rather than backing up what you have already said. 

Mental illness only lowers reliability and credibility if it is outright determined to affect your grip on reality, and how you perceive situations that your in and around you. Madison's claims have stayed the same for the last 2 years, without adding or subtracting any important amount of info, and Madison has never shown any signs of being insane or delusional. If they were really that delusional, it would be obvious.

[HesCalledTheStig]

Just now, itshurleytime said:

The line is not always clear.  If she says 'you stuck it in the wrong hole' and smirks, and then the next day you make a similar joke and now that's across the line, how is a person supposed to know they crossed the line?

If you are unclear if something is appropriate, just don’t do it. It’s that simple. 

[RatKnight]

34 minutes ago, Mertrodome said:

Why would it matter if she did? I can understand it being not to your taste and a reason to unfollow her, obviously. But someone making such jokes on their own time on social media does not make it any more acceptable for people to make the kind of "jokes" she mentioned in a workplace, especially the ones directed at her.

 

Is this the social media equivalent of "if she didn't want those comments she shouldn't dress that way"? It literally makes no difference what she says on her personal time, you don't get to ask "how she likes to fuck" or suggest interpersonal problems are "just sexual tension" in a working environment.

I think that if she was making those comments towards other people in a professional environment (something we don't know, btw and is speculation by people here) their argument is that people probably felt comfortable also making those jokes back.

 

I don't think that is at the level of "she shouldn't have dressed like that". 

 

I think that if the professional environment there was such that this was acceptable by anyone, that needs some major addressing.

[itshurleytime]

Just now, HesCalledTheStig said:

If you are unclear if something is appropriate, just don’t do it. It’s that simple. 

OK, so if you know something was clearly appropriate on Monday, you should just shut the fuck up on Tuesday because it may no longer be appropriate. Got it.

[saintlouisbagels]

3 minutes ago, itshurleytime said:

The line is not always clear.  If she says 'you stuck it in the wrong hole' and smirks, and then the next day you make a similar joke and now that's across the line, how is a person supposed to know they crossed the line?

Well did "you stuck it in the wrong hole" happen in unhinged, unscripted video where they were just two acquaintances?

Did these remarks that crossed the line occur 1-2 years later in a professional environment where power dynamics are in play?

 

It is a very clear line.

[HesCalledTheStig]

1 minute ago, itshurleytime said:

OK, so if you know something was clearly appropriate on Monday, you should just shut the fuck up on Tuesday because it may no longer be appropriate. Got it.

Wtf are you trying to say?  This makes no sense. 

[Mertrodome]

3 minutes ago, itshurleytime said:

Why would it matter if she did?

 

If you habitually make risque and immature jokes, people are going to assume you are comfortable with risque and immature jokes.  If it was within her boundaries/consent for it when she started and it changed so she was no longer comfortable with it at work, she didn't inform the person that was offending her (which is the most basic form of conflict resolution).

It's not about her 'asking for it'.  It's like giving consent for something, and then when you no longer consent only telling your work clique.

I didn't ask why it mattered if she made those kinds of jokes with colleagues, if she "gaves as well as she got" or whether there was consent, withdrawn or otherwise, at some point during her time there.

 

I asked why it mattered that she had tweets on her timeline that might have been risque/sexual in nature. That is explicitly outside of the workplace and even if she talked like a sailor on shore leave there, it's not remotely relevant to what happened within the workplace.

 

You have no more idea of if she implied consent in that kind of talk at work than I do. Any talk about that is pure conjecture. What I am saying though is that what she does outside of work on her own timeline, possibly after she'd left the company even (the person I replied to gave no indication of when they unfollowed her), has no effect whatsoever on what could be considered appropriate at work.