Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[PacketAuditor]

parasocial giga juicer cope massive L collectors yikers mald seethe drama alert nation 

[RockerBug17]

Just checked the views for The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility, video. Later today, it's going to reach Gamer Nexus's top five most popular uploads ever.

 

Let that sink in. Then remember Steve could have called Linus, got some inside information, and produced a video that would NOT have been as popular. Monetized or not, the video Steve and Gamers Nexus published will give them quiet a boost, a boost that will benefit them monetarily in the end.

[sgsrrhreneat]

5 minutes ago, japers said:

Its a well-established, fundamental pillar of journalism to reach out to a party you're making accusations of or to an offending party when covering a news story. Even the most local of local newspaper journalists do this. Let alone an outlet with a following with size of GN. GN made a choice to do this. Theyre not in the clear here either.

 

Him drawing the distinction is very clear to any rational-thinking adult that its about making it clear it wasn't sold for the benefit of LMG's bottom line, and was instead auctioned for charity. Theres a very very clear ethical canyon between the two and thats whats being highlighted here. Its important that people don't think they sold it and pocketed the cash. Its also important that people don't jump to the sheer volume of conclusions that have been jumped to regarding this entire situation.

yeah kinda like u shoulf find out if u actually own the stuff u are auctioning off to unsuspecting bidders

[MrSuperb]

8 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

See, I don't agree at all. You can pretend you can handwave all of these things away, but they're not small issues.

• Billet Labs is the thing, I feel, is the most egregious. No,  I don't know what happened, but to be honest I don't really care - whatever happened they didn't treat someone else's property with respect and when they got called out for it they went "well we're paying them!" Not a great look, even if they handled everything as well as possible behind closed doors. They were lended something in good faith, sold it, then paid the company after getting yelled at for it. Even if they were already paying before the backlash and even if the whole thing was a series of errors those are errors LMG should not have made when it came at the cost of another company's property.
• Again personally speaking, I don't have a problem with errors in the reviews, I do have a problem with the seeming residence from LMG to go back and fix those errors in the videos. If they went back and shot corrections, or even just a little insert "hey we goofed this, here's the real data" or something I would be thrilled.
• The Noctua thing - not a "problem" in and of itself, but it definitely points to some impropriety - according to their cooler test, even the Noctua is thermal throttling. So why are LMG using it for testing? I'm not sure this is a capital P "Problem" but it definitely smells fishy.
• Some might argue that when the founder owns a stake in a competing laptop company they shouldn't be reviewing laptops at all as LMG, as a whole, has a conflict of interest. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand the viewpoint and those people aren't wrong.

This is why I think it's silly to handwave this as "one issue," no, it's not. I'm not so convinced it's a "pattern of behavior" but it's a lot of shit LMG should learn from. These are the things people are upset for.

Ad the Billet Labs:

 

He could have made a video about that and include statements from Billet Labs and LTT, but instead he used it to build Drama for his own good. With the facts that are available, LTT clearly did something wrong. But that wasn’t the point of Gamer Nexus Video. All arguments were made against the original statement of on employee at the labs tour, that LTT Labs is better than GamerNexus.

[vinnyboiler]

I don't think Linus Media Group can exist in the YouTube landscape if they aren't rushing content in a way that jeopardises accuracy. A review system and verification testing is needed in the video production pipeline, and when your GPU review needs to be uploaded as soon as possible because of SEO that becomes a bottleneck.

 

It's unfortunate that in new media, accuracy is being held back by engagement.

 

I also wish Linus didn't take this as a personal slight? Steve in the video expressed that he didn't want this to be drama focused only for Linus to call what he was doing a public sniping match and that his video was in bad faith. I don't think that was called for. It's ironically fanned the flames of drama by misrepresenting this as drama focused.

[rcmaehl]

This is a reminder to drink water, stretch your legs, and breathe for mods currently going through the thread (bless y'all), as well as, current and future thread bingers.

[throwawayManMode]

Just now, vinnyboiler said:

I don't think Linus Media Group can exist in the YouTube landscape if they aren't rushing content in a way that jeopardises accuracy. A review system and verification testing is needed in the video production pipeline, and when your GPU review needs to be uploaded as soon as possible because of SEO that becomes a bottleneck.

 

It's unfortunate that in new media, accuracy is being held back by engagement.

 

I also wish Linus didn't take this as a personal slight? Steve in the video expressed that he didn't want this to be drama focused only for Linus to call what he was doing a public sniping match and that his video was in bad faith. I don't think that was called for. It's ironically fanned the flames of drama by misrepresenting this as drama focused.

The fact is that Linus seems to be incapable of taking criticism constructively and it's a good thing he stepped down as CEO. Now the real CEO needs to do their job and handle this since Linus can't/won't.

[Ayoo]

14 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Quoting just in case you edit this later. Holy crap that is an unhinged response.

Yeah man, I'm not saying I agree but this is what he means when he's talking about pitchforks being out. People are seeing this in a really personal, unhealthy way.

[ToboRobot]

5 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Just checked the views for The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility, video. Later today, it's going to reach Gamer Nexus's top five most popular uploads ever.

 

Let that sink in. Then remember Steve could have called Linus, got some inside information, and produced a video that would NOT have been as popular. Monetized or not, the video Steve and Gamers Nexus published will give them quiet a boost, a boost that will benefit them monetarily in the end.

Reaching out for comment wouldn't have changed to overall tone of the video, and may have made it a better more compelling story.

I hope Steve states why he did not do so, that way the speculation can end.

[joaopt]

5 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

Ad the Billet Labs:

 

He could have made a video about that and include statements from Billet Labs and LTT, but instead he used it to build Drama for his own good. With the facts that are available, LTT clearly did something wrong. But that wasn’t the point of Gamer Nexus Video. All arguments were made against the original statement of on employee at the labs tour, that LTT Labs is better than GamerNexus.

 

that was not what LLT Tim or whatever he is called stated in any way.

Steve's video is also not about that but the bigger picture, LTT has a major problem, period. That was used as an argument.

 

This is not drama. You can fault Steve for only calling out Linus now when he clearly had seen this behaviour for a long time and said nothing, but even Luke is incapable of calling Linus out as we see often. Linus has too much power and people are afraid of him, and rightfully so because Linus doesn't do criticism very well as we also seen very clearly. That or assume responsibility. Or apologise.

[filpo]

Just now, rcmaehl said:

This is a reminder to drink water, stretch your legs, and breathe for mods currently going through the thread (bless y'all), as well as, current and future thread bingers.

To those who haven't drunk water for the last 15 hours, go have a shower 

[Deltaaaa]

12 hours ago, LinusTech said:

If you're new to the channel, I understand why you might not know this, but we are extremely committed to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how.

I'm sorry but how can you sit here and say "LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE SPENDING TO BE ACCURATE" and then sit on your show and say that you spending "$200-$500" to test a prototype product using the card it was made for is too much? How do you not laugh at your own absurdity?

 

I've watched LTT for close to 10 years at this point, and I honestly can't believe what I'm hearing from you. Like everyone else, I've noticed more and more the walk-backs and asterisked video overlays, and it's getting to the point where I might as well not trust anything you say or put on the screen. 

 

I'm not sure when your motivation for doing this job shifted from informing people to pleasing your self-imposed (and insane) posting schedule at all costs, but it's incredibly sad to see. You need to step away from this business for a while and think about whether you still want to be involved, because right now you're coming across like the ignorant leadership archetype that you've criticized widely for your entire career. 

 

This could be a wake-up call for you, and it could lead to some meaningful changes and an examination of your purpose both on YouTube and in the broader tech sphere. You could come out of this better than you went in. So far, unfortunately, you're engaging in absolutely zero self-reflection and dismissing everything as "growing pains" and writing off mistakes as simple casualities of being awesome. 

 

The trust is that you WERE awesome. You are no longer awesome, and unless you take this shit seriously you'll continue down the dogshit-covered path of so many tech gurus before you. 

[JiRoDev]

3 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

You should use OpenGL or Vulkan on both if you just wish to compare performance, any other test generates meaningless numbers.

No, that's very wrong, if you wish to test performance you use the best API of each platform, you seem to believe different API produces different visual quality, and that's also very wrong. By your reasoning then why not test windows games using Metal, emulate it and watch performance tank by 80%, how is that fair for Mac and not for windows?

[rcmaehl]

1 minute ago, filpo said:

To those who haven't drunk water for the last 15 hours, go have a shower 

Spoiler

 

[cjbtlr]

3 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Just checked the views for The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility, video. Later today, it's going to reach Gamer Nexus's top five most popular uploads ever.

 

Let that sink in. Then remember Steve could have called Linus, got some inside information, and produced a video that would NOT have been as popular. Monetized or not, the video Steve and Gamers Nexus published will give them quiet a boost, a boost that will benefit them monetarily in the end.

Let that sink in? Yes, GN literally self-demonetized the video. It's the first line in the video description. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. There is no conspiracy or long con. 

 

It's a small hardware review channel of 4 people with ten or whatever years of experience getting and reporting accurate and reliable data, holding accountable an entertainment channel with a much larger reach and over 100 staff that are now attempting to do the same - and, despite considerable investment in testing equipment, frankly, failing at it.

 

Pointing out their "lower" view rate doesn't change the validity of anything Steve pointed out.

[Godiwa]

41 minutes ago, vong said:

Dang, that GN video is hurting them bad. 20k/21k, like/dislike ratio. Never seen it that bad since I started watching in 2012. This needs to be addressed on the WAN show.

 

I'm an LMG fan but Steve has very valid points.

just all the LTT fanbois going nuts not liking the truth to be exposed on their Lord Linus... It is so pathetic...

it was a video WITH proof for everything they said, so there isn't really any dispute there, now we just need a proper video from LTT and we need Billet to get their prototype BACK and I don't care if Linus has to live on bread and water for a month to get it back, it just needs to happen.

that people are so blinded in their fanboi'ism that they can't take critique is again just pathetic... but Linus doesn't handle critique well either and just brushes it off (see the excuse reply he made on this thread)

I knew many of those problems... but I am merely just a viewer (among many) but I was not the only one that have noticed the lack of quality and simply just took the videos as entertainment and not as serious reviews... but screwing over a small startup like that and making countless errors constantly (the same stuff over and over) is a massive problem and it can and should be fixed... as many have said... slow down... don't ruin quality for quantity... that will just ruin LTT completely... and why spend 10 million on LABS if you can't spend a few hundred dollars on DOING IT RIGHT in the first place? then take 10 million and toss out the window and then continue without all the useless data from LABS instead of pretending to delivering "super accurate pro data" when it is filled with stupidly easy to fix errors and inexperience... 300% more performance 4090-3090Ti is a GLARING one at that...

[WillHeard]

Just now, cjbtlr said:

Let that sink in? Yes, GN literally self-demonetized the video. It's the first line in the video description. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. There is no conspiracy or long con. 

 

It's a small hardware review channel of 4 people with ten or whatever years of experience getting and reporting accurate and reliable data, holding accountable an entertainment channel with a much larger reach and over 100 staff that are now attempting to do the same - and, despite considerable investment in testing equipment, frankly, failing at it.

 

Pointing out their "lower" view rate doesn't change the validity of anything Steve pointed out.

The inability of people to have a conversation about the content of what was said and not who was saying it is so disappointing 

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

  Hide contents

 

Bro made a comic in two minutes 

[stflames01]

19 hours ago, manikyath said:

so.. steve is making a stink over something an LMG employee said, without the context of what they were talking about, and the environment they were talking in...

 

i feel like there's a strong vibe of "everyone is handling this the wrong way" here...

 

this is the point where i watch the entire GN video to make sure the above statement is correct...

 

there's a lot of truth here.. but the general tone of the video seems.. unnecessarily nitpicky and vindictive?

 

steve ripping on the framework investment being conflict of interest for doing laptop reviews.. is also just unnecessary. linus is aware of the potential conflict of interest, it has been brought up to the community at the time of him considering it, and is mentioned in each laptop review he hosts.

also this:

is a very important distinction. you cant talk about the budgets of a corporation, and then talk about someone's personal investment as if they are one and the same.

 

i'm actually at the point where i'm getting annoyed at steve putting far too many out of context quotes into his video. it seems almost purposefully disingenuous on his part to cut things to make them seem worse.. when the full story is already less than favourable.

 

yes.. LMG makes a lot of mistakes, too many mistakes.. but saying that a "100 million dollar company" should not do this, is just factually inaccurate. that cash does not exist at LMG, and steve knows this. why make this argument if not to purposefully make LMG seem evil, rather than just careless.

 

it *could* have been a wakeup call for LMG, but instead the entire video just feels like steve going as hard as he can without openly hard cutting his own ties with LMG in case he needs linus to call someone at youtube for him.

 

actually.. this has been an issue i've had with steve's videos in general. i like steve, i love what he stands for, but every time i bump into a video of his he seems to be unnecessarily vindictive about everything. it's just exhausting at this point. steve's usually right, but he loses so much credibility to me by inflating facts almost into the field of alternative truths... life is crazy enough as it, let's not inflate things any more and try to fix things for once.

 

PS: a TL:DR here in case someone is gonna pop in to call me an LMG shill.. i 87% agree with steve on the topic, i just also 99% disagree with the way he voices his opinion on said topic.

You're right. Going about it in this way feels close to disingenuous but not quite. Just short of it though. Mistakes being made are one thing but the general vibe of the video seems very very off. Like it's something that's been bottled up and the comments made erroneously by the LTT employee, for which there has been an apology and a clarification, tipped them over.

 

I like Steve too but it's really weird to see this. It's not uncomfortable like how he said in his video. It's just plainly not nice. Just because LMG is bigger now and is still growing doesn't mean they are suddenly a bad corporation. This didn't need to be public. This could have been a conversation, an email or a call. There is such a thing as tact. But making a video like this in the name of "tough love" just seems plain wrong.

 

I personally hope the team ignores this but take the helpful criticisms in good faith. However, I wish it is completely ignored in the next WAN show. It's just not worth it. 

[rcmaehl]

4 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

 

Not sure where vong is getting their numbers (20k vs 21k ???)

 

 

[MrSuperb]

1 minute ago, joaopt said:

 

that was not what LLT Tim or whatever he is called stated in any way.

Steve's video is also not about that but the bigger picture, LTT has a major problem, period. That was used as an argument.

 

This is not drama. You can fault Steve for only calling out Linus now when he clearly had seen this behaviour for a long time and said nothing, but even Luke is incapable of calling Linus out as we see often. Linus has too much power and people are afraid of him, and rightfully so because Linus doesn't do criticism very well as we also seen very clearly. That or assume responsibility. Or apologise.

of course it was about that. And even if LTT has a big problem, why is GN (a competitor) the hero to call it out? Right to make money out of it, with the stupid argument that the video isn’t monetized.

 

It is on you to criticize Linus in a very powerful way. Just stop watching his videos and buying his merch.

[Guest]

I remember the good old days, when i was offended by the price of his backpack and screwdriver

 

Now its ethics, and they cost nothing.....

[Dom1252]

13 hours ago, LinusTech said:

...we are extremely committed to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how. It's taking time, and this kind of aggressive expansion has been a learning curve for us, but to frame our recent actions as "sacrificing accuracy" is misleading at best. 
We need to make a lot of process changes to get to the point where everything is water-tight. That's a big part of why we added our new CEO Terren to our leadership team, but once again... things take time. 

 

"to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how. " 

no, you are building the facility for more views and further reach 

if you'd just wanted to improve accuracy, you'd actually spend some time reviewing your own videos before publishing them, no lab can save you from making mistakes, but proper processes can save you from publishing many of them 

I am not new to this channel, I spent thousands of hours on your channels by this point, maybe more... I watched many videos several times... and I seriously think you are purposefully sacrificing accuracy... heck, you even admit it yourself, that you won't retest the cooler because it would cost 500 bucks? bro, you made a statement about profit of 800 bucks from twitch that it doesn't make even a rounding error, how is 500 for you too much to make things right? 

 

 

if you'd actually give a damn, videos with plain wrong data (like 4090 one) would be taken down completely, fixed and uploaded fresh... yes it would hurt your metrics bad, real bad, but that is the correct way to fix big mistakes, not just pin comment? what about people who watch LTT on TV, like me, who don't se comments under videos? 

[filpo]

Brett from UFD tech has also reported on this in Hot News and is his longest first topic ever coming in at 10 minutes and 3 seconds long

[Empyreal]

Linus should really take his own advice: