Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Beerzerker]

3 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

For me it is almost 6:00 AM, Let me be clear about something. I don't have role models. It is a limiting mindset. I understand journalism, I use to be one. I don't care about Reddit, I consider it to be a toxic website. I will reiterate this, GN is personally involved in this situation. GN is not an external force. Steve knows Linus off camera and they had a very long friendship. How long is not publicly known. I know Linus holds Steve in high regard.    

 

It is poor practice as a journalist to use private knowledge in a journalistic piece. It is poor practice to assume anything. It is a bad practice not to allow someone to respond before it gets released. These choices are by design to ambush LTT to get an emotional response. It worked the proof is on this forum. Then GN preemptively said they will not respond to the video. Anyone can see Linus got played here. If you wish to ignore then that is your prerogative. I have not done journalism in 20 years I don't know how the practice has changed.

 

For me personally, it is about the truth, to report the story accurately. It is not a journalist's job to create the story. The fact remains LTT/LMG was ambushed and manipulated into giving an emotional response. As you rightfully pointed out, that did not help the matter. But ask yourself how it came to be in the first place.

 

Forget Linus, forget Steve look at the situation critically.

 

I hold no animosity towards anyone. Facts are facts.

Controversy. 
Nothing attracts attention or gets clicks like it does and yes, it's been noticed and clicked about too - This entire thread is proof of it. 
Think about it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Controversy. 
Nothing attracts attention or gets clicks like it does and yes, it's been noticed and clicked about too - This entire thread is proof of it. 
Think about it.

Indeed, That is why I stated my motive outright. The Journalist in me couldn't let it slide. I saw the manipulation, I saw the pre-emptive nature of GN's videos and reporting. It was as clear as day to me what their intentions were. I felt obligated to voice my concerns. I then considered deleting my account because I believe came to the same conclusion I have. I decided to stay around for a little while. But honestly, it is important to realize we are essentially bystanders. It is up to both GN and LMG to move forward. They need to make the call at the end of the day. 

[IKWMTY]

10 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I understand journalism, I use to be one.

Clearly false, otherwise you wouldn't be peddling this nonsense,

 

10 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

 

I don't care about Reddit, I consider it to be a toxic website.

For once, I agree with you. Reddit is almost as bad as this forum.

 

10 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

The fact remains LTT/LMG was ambushed and manipulated into giving an emotional response.

So you think that Linus has a very fragile ego, reacts emotionally instead of critically, and is such a simpleton that GN was able to manipulate him to years worth of shitty decision? That's pretty brutal.

 

10 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I hold no animosity towards anyone. Facts are facts.

And the facts say GN is right and that LMG, and Linus most egregiously, are dead wrong.

[NubCak]

15 hours ago, forgotusername said:

Yeah none of what you say makes sense.

Unions or GTFO

I'm glad you love having your pay being docked.

I enjoy taking home all of my pay with no union dues.

Enjoy.

[Anders155]

1 hour ago, MercuryRain said:

Over the course of the Gamers Nexus video, Steve repeatedly blames Linus Tech Tips for not making corrections in their videos when inaccurate information was included, whether for various benchmarking charts, or a simple situation as the plastic coverings on the feet of the pwnage mouse.

 

And yet, over the past couple days, after we have seen the email chain where it has become very obvious that Billet Labs gave the waterblock to LTT with no expectation of ever getting back - we have the image screenshot, in writing, from their rep that LTT was supposed to keep the waterblock - he has not added that clarification to his own video, after making the clear implied accusation that Linus failed to return property which was not his.

 

Turns out, the property was his, and his team was, out of the goodness of their hearts, returning something that had been surrendered to them completely. 

 

To not include this detail in his video in any format - comment, caption, voiceover, what have you, is direct hypocrisy.  It doesn't matter if the rest of his video was correct - and it is.  That simple act is hypocritical, and that means even if he is correct in this situation, he is not right.

 

He did not make that video for altruistic reasons.  He did not make it to improve the journalistic and testing standards of tech youtube as a whole.

 

He made the video because he saw an opportunity to (once again, correctly) disparage a competitor and he knew, as long as he didn't make himself blatantly obvious that he isn't following his own rules, nobody was going to call him on it.

 

You are playing directly into that strategy and it has worked so well on you I shudder to think what happens when you see actual political debates and other things that actually matter.

 

Pwnage a simple situation? The mouses was given out as part of that prize in LTX whale thingy according to themselves (Pwnage) and then the video about their mouse comes out saying they don't recommend it (Shortcircuit). Quite conflicting don't you think?

 

The property wasn't his. It's that simple.

 

are you one of those debate me bros?

[Why_Me]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:01 PM, McCarthy said:

 

GN created a snowball effect, that is INDEED much worse. Look at this thread alone... its full of blame and hate. Where I come from, the current situation is now a lose:lose constellation, because ya'll didn't even agree with him stepping back and promising changes.

 

For people like you, its all about drama and hate.

blah blah blah ... we watched the videos.

[Beerzerker]

14 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

Indeed, That is why I stated my motive outright. The Journalist in me couldn't let it slide. I saw the manipulation, I saw the pre-emptive nature of GN's videos and reporting. It was as clear as day to me what their intentions were. I felt obligated to voice my concerns. I then considered deleting my account because I believe came to the same conclusion I have. I decided to stay around for a little while. But honestly, it is important to realize we are essentially bystanders. It is up to both GN and LMG to move forward. They need to make the call at the end of the day. 

Just know that's not an accusation against either one (LTT or GN).

Could have been one or the other - Maybe even both doing it mutually for their benefit..... I dunno and because I do not "Know" I will not call it as fact, it's just a thought I had myself after seeing the after-effects of the deal.

One thing is for sure - Regardless of who or why, they got the clicks if nothing else.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, IKWMTY said:

For once, I agree with you. Reddit is almost as bad as this forum.

In conclusion, I am not interested in someone that pretends they know every aspect of my life. You don't. I am not going to subject myself to your bigotry. Disrespecting people is not a sign of strength. Ignoring the facts is not critical thinking. When it comes to the facts, it is clear LTT/LMG have made many mistakes. But they are mistakes. What they did cannot be considered as malice. They gave their accounts of each of the situations.

 

GN on the other hand acted with malice, I concluded this based on the language in the videos, the presumptions GN made and the lack of communication with LTT/LMG. You wish to defend them and that is your prerogative. I personally am neutral. Journalists are supposed to be neutral. Journalists are supposed to report on the story, not create the narrative or control the narrative. Journalists are supposed to be unbiased. GN is not without fault. 

 

This is all I have to say to you. This is my last response to you. 

[IKWMTY]

5 minutes ago, Anders155 said:

 

Pwnage a simple situation? The mouses was given out as part of that prize in LTX whale thingy according to themselves (Pwnage) and then the video about their mouse comes out saying they don't recommend it (Shortcircuit). Quite conflicting don't you think?

 

I haven't followed the Pwnage mouse fiasco as closely but yes, another disturbing case of first making a careless mistake (and not reading any of the included documentation!) and then doubling down and deliberately issuing a fubar response which required another correction.

 

ShortCircuit is a joke and putting unqualified people in front of the camera is just another Linus failure. 

[IKWMTY]

2 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

In conclusion, I am not interested in someone that pretends they know every aspect of my life. You don't. I am not going to subject myself to your bigotry. Disrespecting people is not a sign of strength. Ignoring the facts is not critical thinking. When it comes to the facts, it is clear LTT/LMG have made many mistakes. But they are mistakes. What they did cannot be considered as malice. They gave their accounts of each of the situations.

 

GN on the other hand acted with malice, I concluded this based on the language in the videos, the presumptions GN made and the lack of communication with LTT/LMG. You wish to defend them and that is your prerogative. I personally am neutral. Journalists are supposed to be neutral. Journalists are supposed to report on the story, not create the narrative or control the narrative. Journalists are supposed to be unbiased. GN is not without fault. 

 

This is all I have to say to you. This is my last response to you. 

No one can judge you but you know for a fact the GN acted with malice? Are you serious?

[MercuryRain]

1 hour ago, IKWMTY said:

I'm guessing your day job isn't as the executive editor of the NYT.

 

GN's story was ethical and accurate.

I'm guessing your day job is flipping burgers at a Wendy's.

 

I write environmental test reports to hand to the FAA. I know a thing or two about safety and testing ethics.

[dogwitch]

5 minutes ago, MercuryRain said:

I'm guessing your day job is flipping burgers at a Wendy's.

 

I write environmental test reports to hand to the FAA. I know a thing or two about safety and testing ethics.

agree. i use to help my  late father on water sample testing. high lvl stuff . 1 wrong mistake. cost many people health or lives.

 

[IKWMTY]

7 minutes ago, MercuryRain said:

I'm guessing your day job is flipping burgers at a Wendy's.

 

I write environmental test reports to hand to the FAA. I know a thing or two about safety and testing ethics.

Awesome, we've reached the "here's my job" part of the argument. I can only base my opinion of you based on what you post here and if your job actually involves writing... <shaking my head>

 

Keep the shiat posting up, we gotta reach 400 pages and give LMG all that ad money. They are going to need to pay the lawyers!

[Guest]

Does anyone know if Billet Labs' property was returned to them or not?

 

I asked Google this question and it found a Reddit post. Now to be clear I dislike Reddit. It is not a good source of information. However, someone did post something I found very interesting. I will leave the link below for anyone that is interested. A few things I didn't know about the situation were well thought out and communicated. 

 

Was billet lab actually in danger of loosing intelectual property

[Erioch]

-moderated comment removed-

LTT's next shirt:

 

"We didn't sell it, we auctioned it for charity so it's okay"

[Guest]

In the end, it doesn't matter, I am not going to get personally involved in what is essentially watered-down drama. As for the results of the employer-employee situation, we will have to wait and see what will happen. I am biased towards the rule of law. I believe at its core, the law is there to protect us.

[Swamp_Donk]

26 minutes ago, IKWMTY said:

No one can judge you but you know for a fact the GN acted with malice? Are you serious?

Steve stated in his last video about LTT that he "vetted" the timeline of events, and omitted the part where BL originally sent the Monoblock for LTT to keep as they "thought it would be good for you to have for future builds", and then later asked for it back. This nullifies communication Steve said he had with Billet Labs where they stated they are now stalled without their best prototype that they originally gave to LTT with no intention of getting back. This also invalidates the conjecture Steve had about fears of competitors seeing/ buying/ cloning this rare one of a kind mono block that was originally given away. 

 

So the question is:

Did A: Billet Labs misrepresent the situation by telling GN this was supposed to go out to other reviewers, that it set them back months and did immeasurable financial damage as they try to remake their best prototype, even though we now know it was never their intention to get the block back before the shitty review? That's shitty journalism, to only get one half of such a serious allegation and present it as fact.

 

Malicious? You decide. If it were anything else - someone saying you stole something for example - you would hope that whomever heard that would ask for your side of the story before repeating that allegation, and if they didn't, you'd feel as if it was done maliciously or without care.

 

Or B: GN knew more about the specifics but decided to omit that as it's easier to vilify LTT with comments about potentially ruining a 2 person startup than just falling back on the correct narrative the entire video was about, which was that LTT is a disorganized mess, and it was as simple as a part from the inventory side wasn't put back into the return to sender pile, simplified, of course. This would be malicious, as spinning the narrative to talk about a multimillion dollar company fucking over a small startup by effectively stealing their only prototype sounds a lot worse.

 

I dunno dude, you decide. I feel as though both options are pretty shitty for GN - either bad journalism, or malicious journalism. Journalism is their bread and butter, and it got the important details wrong on this one. 

[TheOtherJohn]

1 hour ago, 3m3m said:

The fact remains LTT/LMG was ambushed and manipulated into giving an emotional response.

That's a terrible argument, are you being ambushed when a cop pulls you over for speeding? Grow up. Posting false information as factual has consequences.

Like it or not LTT/LMG didn't/don't give a crap about posting accurate information on testing. Also Linus himself even said on the Wan Show its not worth the effort of fixing it in post or spending the extra time to get it right in the first place. He admitted to deceiving people and doesn't care one bit about creating high quality hardware reviews while passing himself/LMG off as the "Industry Leaders".

Also, no one was 'manipulated' into responding to anything. No sane CEO would shoot a response to a legitimate negative assessment from the hip like that. He talks all WAN Show about how Terran is the new CEO now and "im not your boss" yet when something like this happens he conveniently forgets his place and makes the situation worse by ADHDing all over the place (i have ADHD so f**k off if you think i cant say that).

The language your using makes me doubt you ever were a journalist or at least a credible one at that. 'Ambushed' and 'Manipulated' are very basic words that are easy to define and your using them like a 13yo writing bad fan fiction. The fact is that you just cant stand your hero is being held accountable for his own actions.

I was fine with his bs 'Trust me Bro' phrase untill now, i no longer 'trust you, bro'.

[TheOtherJohn]

18 minutes ago, Bruceleet said:

 

As for the review accuracy.. I don't give a crap. I don't watch LTT for accurate reviews lol. If I cared about that I'd watch a GN video which is usually an hour of Steve rambling on about nonsense I do not even care about.  All I care about when it comes to GPU/CPU testing is "IS IT GUD OR NA?".

Your point of view is irrelevant. Most people actually care when Tech Bros post charts and tables of GPU stats. You can wallow in ignorance and giggle like a 10yo at the 69 jokes all you want, But people watch this stuff expecting the information to be correct. A lot of people are spending real amounts of money and need more then just 'Gud or Na', there not idiots like you.

 

 

[Bruceleet]

Just now, TheOtherJohn said:

Your point of view is irrelevant. Most people actually care when Tech Bros post charts and tables of GPU stats. You can wallow in ignorance and giggle like a 10yo at the 69 jokes all you want, But people watch this stuff expecting the information to be correct. A lot of people are spending real amounts of money and need more then just 'Gud or Na', there not idiots like you.

 

Then watch GN or all the other channels that do a far better job lol. Or better yet there are still sites that offer detailed reviews and breakdowns in erroneous detail. There is a reason GN averages around 300k views and LTT averages around 1.5m+. It is an entertainment channel first a tech channel second. 

I could well be wrong though. Seems odd that GN's 4060 video has 800k views whereas LTT watercooling a bed has 2.4m views.

 

The only reason LTT is so popular is because it moved away from the dry, boring crap that is synonymous with tech channels. 

It's why I think LTT labs is so pointless. Spend the money on improving the content.. not on testing shit that at best people will glance at for a few seconds. 

 

That being said LTT reviews are on the whole decent. They have a few mistakes for sure. But if I am buying a $800 GPU I would not base my buying decision on a single video from an entertainment channel. 

 

[Swamp_Donk]

33 minutes ago, TheOtherJohn said:

Your point of view is irrelevant. Most people actually care when Tech Bros post charts and tables of GPU stats. You can wallow in ignorance and giggle like a 10yo at the 69 jokes all you want, But people watch this stuff expecting the information to be correct. A lot of people are spending real amounts of money and need more then just 'Gud or Na', there not idiots like you.

Steve at GN says otherwise. When discussing video corrections as asterisks, which also applies to graphics and charts, he says most people won't read what's on the screen as they either tune it out, or just listen to the videos. Is Steve from Gamers' Nexus wrong as well?

 

And before you respond, I didn't give an opinion either way, so if you disagree with what I'm showing you, then go send a Tweet to Steve or something, don't complain to me. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, TheOtherJohn said:

That's a terrible argument, are you being ambushed when a cop pulls you over for speeding? Grow up. Posting false information as factual has consequences.

Like it or not LTT/LMG didn't/don't give a crap about posting accurate information on testing. Also Linus himself even said on the Wan Show its not worth the effort of fixing it in post or spending the extra time to get it right in the first place. He admitted to deceiving people and doesn't care one bit about creating high quality hardware reviews while passing himself/LMG off as the "Industry Leaders".

Also, no one was 'manipulated' into responding to anything. No sane CEO would shoot a response to a legitimate negative assessment from the hip like that. He talks all WAN Show about how Terran is the new CEO now and "im not your boss" yet when something like this happens he conveniently forgets his place and makes the situation worse by ADHDing all over the place (i have ADHD so f**k off if you think i cant say that).

The language your using makes me doubt you ever were a journalist or at least a credible one at that. 'Ambushed' and 'Manipulated' are very basic words that are easy to define and your using them like a 13yo writing bad fan fiction. The fact is that you just cant stand your hero is being held accountable for his own actions.

I was fine with his bs 'Trust me Bro' phrase untill now, i no longer 'trust you, bro'.

It is no secret I have to be very careful using English. It is not my first language and I don't know all the grammar and punctuation. I do my best to communicate as clearly as possible.

 

Manipulation on the other hand is really important to identify. I recall watching a program I think translates to "Fear thy Neighbour". In this particular situation, one individual manipulated the other to lose their cool about something trivial. The individual stormed into the other's house and he was then able to end that person's life and claim self defence. 

 

This I feel illustrates the importance of context. Journalism was a job, I didn't enjoy it. I never claimed I was good at it. But the principles of being honest, methodical and ethical are something we can use in any situation.  

 

I don't know why you feel so strongly to attack me about something so trivial. Can I now claim you are a simp for GN? Must I now claim you have excessive sympathy for GN? Using profanity is low level and you accuse me of being a 13-year-old. Need I continue?

 

I invite you to take a step back and critically analyze GN's actions. That said I never once defended LTT/LMG. They are in the wrong, they should fix their content and create better policies to help prevent bad situations from happening. But show me one company in the history of humanity that never made a single mistake. That is impossible.

 

As for yourself, treat people with respect and remember earning respect goes both ways. Don't claim someone writes like a 13-year-old if you yourself use profanity. Now I only think you are hypocritical and any value you tried to communicate is now overshadowed.

 

 

[NorKris]

3 hours ago, 3m3m said:

Firstly you accuse a lot of people of a lot of things. I suspect you created your account with the sole intent of doing so. You speak of facts but ignore the entire LTT/LGM video and their situation. I have viewed every video of both Newegg and Artesian Builds in real-time as it happened. Please don't presume, you know me, my intentions and my reasoning. You don't.

 

My sentiment remains the same. GN presume they knew how LTT/LMG will respond. They said this much in the same videos that you claim I haven't watched. I recall in the Artesian Builds video, GN did reach out to Noah Katz via email. For you to claim this is not true brings me to my second point. In the Newegg situation, I recall only from memory that they did visit and meet with Newegg. Why wouldn't they want to visit with LTT/LMG and allow them to explain their side of the situation?

 

Clearly based on the videos you said I never watched, both Artesian Builds and Newegg were given the opportunity to respond.   

 

GN needs to explain their own actions. They need to step up not you. In summary, it is not a you or me thing, it is a them thing. They need to sort this out not us.

So GN needed to reach out to LMG get the full picture?

 - for what? so that they could report on the bad data in reveiws and tests from LTT? Or so GN could tell us why its wrong to test the wrong gpu on a waterblock? 

 

that email never went out to billet..) ... making it kinda worse for LTT...

 

GN did NOTHING wrong...   zero... 

 

GN did not test stuff wrong, did not test the wrong GPU, did not fakk over a small start up, did not sell the block. did not fail to email them(billet), did not treat Madison bad

[Bruceleet]

17 minutes ago, NorKris said:

So GN needed to reach out to LMG get the full picture?

 - for what? so that they could report on the bad data in reveiws and tests from LTT? Or so GN could tell us why its wrong to test the wrong gpu on a waterblock? 

 

that email never went out to billet..) ... making it kinda worse for LTT...

 

GN did NOTHING wrong...   zero... 

 

GN did not test stuff wrong, did not test the wrong GPU, did not fakk over a small start up, did not sell the block. did not fail to email them(billet), did not treat Madison bad

I 100% agree with you.

 

That being said. I am sure GN have tested stuff wrong. Because people make mistakes. When you make hundreds of videos if not thousands I am sure even GN have a few mistakes.

[Guest]

Just now, NorKris said:

So GN needed to reach out to LMG get the full picture?

 - for what? so that they could report on the bad data in reveiws and tests from LTT? Or so GN could tell us why its wrong to test the wrong gpu on a waterblock? 

 

that email never went out to billet..) ... making it kinda worse for LTT...

No GN should reach out, that is what a good journalist does. Crediting bad journalism for being good is counterproductive. You are right however GN can represent their findings any way they want. But it is sad that GN missed a lot of details. Again I am here because I don't like it when someone controls the narrative and doesn't allow for correction. It is so damaging and so counterproductive. I mean look where we are. But I am not going to take part in trivial bickering. 

 

This whole situation is petty at this point.