Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[FieryToast]

Can always count on Sam to lighten the mood a little…

[Godlygamer23]

1 hour ago, 3m3m said:

Stupid question if you delete your account does all the posts go away? I actually said what I wanted to say. Again was never a GN or LTT fan I am just older then the internet and figured I will call out bad journalism.

I think your posts remain, but your username won't show anymore, nor will your profile. It's just there to retain the continuity, particularly if someone quotes you. 

 

It's been a while though, so I would reach out to the mods to get an official answer. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, FieryToast said:

Can always count on Sam to lighten the mood a little…

That was hilarious, I found it a little bit ago. There are a few good ones I will admit.

[Sasha2D]

1 hour ago, 3m3m said:

Yea, I am old I am not going to sit here and lie about it. It is a shame to see. I recall the first ever YouTube videos it was a mess but people loved it. Now everything is serious, everything feels fake and honestly, I had enough of YouTube, Social media and all the rest of it. The computer was and is just a tool for me to get my work done. I don't see it as anything more or anything less. I value friendship, community and mutual respect. GN showed me this does not exist anymore. I registered my account to call GN out. I did that and whatever it will accomplish it will accomplish.

 

Enjoy whatever it is you enjoy. I think I am 100% done. Will be deleting my account after this post.

 

It was fun until people figured out a $100M company should be a bit more factual with their reporting.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I think your posts remain, but your username won't show anymore, nor will your profile. It's just there to retain the continuity, particularly if someone quotes you. 

 

It's been a while though, so I would reach out to the mods to get an official answer. 

Thanks, Yea saw that when I started the process but figured I will remain a bit longer. Well for what it is worth I am hopeful that things will become better for all of you. Especially someone like yourself that volunteer your time. 

[stevenbarta09]

1 hour ago, CameronP90 said:

Typical, milking the floatplane garbage during a time such as this nuking. Does anyone at LTT effing care? If you do, stop this garbage. I honestly feel that this SH case turns up with the truth that this "boys club" is a mess and lots of folks need to go bye bye.

Nope, it makes sense to ask, as people are directly paying for this service. I think it is a very relevant Edit: legitimate question.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sasha2D said:

 

It was fun until people figured out a $100M company should be a bit more factual with their reporting.

I hit my head hard, so I  am still recovering. The hazard of not having a "sleeping desk" someone should figure that out. Anyhow. A lot of big companies mess up it is just they are not open about it. GN did a number on LMG but I pity GN if they get anything wrong in future. I fear the entire internet will go after them. I don't know I still believe there had to have been a better way to do this.

[Sasha2D]

9 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I hit my head hard, so I  am still recovering. The hazard of not having a "sleeping desk" someone should figure that out. Anyhow. A lot of big companies mess up it is just they are not open about it. GN did a number on LMG but I pity GN if they get anything wrong in future. I fear the entire internet will go after them. I don't know I still believe there had to have been a better way to do this.

 

All is fair in love and war my friend.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sasha2D said:

 

All is fair in love and war my friend.

Love I understand, war sadly we learned to live with. But attention-seeking greed. There is not a warrior that will lift their sword for it, there is not a heart that will fall in love with it. Greed can only be sustained with greed. GN might have turned off their monetization for that video but they will still profit from the future traffic that will return day after day until they don't. LTT I think learned the same lesson.

 

But tomorrow the sun will shine, and life will go on.

[Sasha2D]

10 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

Love I understand, war sadly we learned to live with. But attention-seeking greed. There is not a warrior that will lift their sword for it, there is not a heart that will fall in love with it. Greed can only be sustained with greed. GN might have turned off their monetization for that video but they will still profit from the future traffic that will return day after day until they don't. LTT I think learned the same lesson.

 

But tomorrow the sun will shine, and life will go on.

 

Quite the poet aren't you.

[CameronP90]

36 minutes ago, stevenbarta09 said:

Nope, it makes sense to ask, as people are directly paying for this service. I think it is a very relevant Edit: legitimate question.

I disagree, I don't care if I was paying for it or not... and I'm not a FP sub so.. but anyways, they're trying to save face during this clown show and folks wanna sit and think this is ok? HUH?

[Guest]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:38 PM, LinusTech said:

Getting all the details before publication is *NOT* the opposite of journalistic integrity.

This isn't about being on a side... There's no war. You don't need to fight. You need to slow down and think.... 

Getting all the details right before doing a video about a product you were reviewing was meaningless because it costed some money but you really believe they needed to contact you before publication to have "journalistic integrity"?

 

Seriously, I don't get you. The way you handled the review was lacking integrity. The way you handled the product was not profesional and the way you handled the communication with Billet was horrendous but, the worse part, is you insisted in your criticism about the product and talking like the issue was already addressed with Billet while you failed even to tell them that you were going to compensate them.

[Majestic12]

35 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

I hit my head hard, so I  am still recovering. The hazard of not having a "sleeping desk" someone should figure that out. Anyhow. A lot of big companies mess up it is just they are not open about it. GN did a number on LMG but I pity GN if they get anything wrong in future. I fear the entire internet will go after them. I don't know I still believe there had to have been a better way to do this.

That was my first thought. When you act as if you're the pinnacle of reporting and as if you're the pope on fire in the tech world, blasting holy vengeance on everything, be prepared for it to boomerang back into your face the moment you screw up. GN could only go after LMG because they've grown to a sufficient size to make a juicy target but behind the booming company are still people sacrificing a great deal to make it work and it's important not to lose track of this. They screwed up but everyone does at some point - it doesn't warrant a witch hunt and GN has been spearheading too many witch hunts to my liking. They need to be taken a peg down to learn some humility and I hope it's coming soon ...

[Silvy]

15 hours ago, TechDeckCAD said:

I'm not missing your point at all, in fact, the last sentence you wrote makes this even more confusing. If you acknowledge that it's not a rule, nor imperative to fair and accurate reporting, then by extension, it cannot be emblematic of biased reporting. Otherwise, by your logic, any journalist that chooses not to speak to an accused entity is inherently biased, which is ridiculous. My point is that unless this is a hardline rule that every journalist has to follow, I'm not going to castigate a journalist for not talking to the accused, as long as they explain their methodology and provide transparency into their decision-making, which Steve has rightfully done in both of his videos.

 

I really have to ask, what did GN do that makes you think it's biased reporting? The information (that includes LMG's own employees on the record in their own video!) he acquired showed that LMG/LTT had the propensity to make erroneous claims, oftentimes using heavily erroneous testing methodologies that goes against what their engineers have claimed. And their errors affecting conduct with Pwnage and Billet Labs such that it led to misconceptions about how their product performs. Like is Steve just never supposed to bring this up ever? You've also lost sight about LMG/LTT lying about having spoken to Billet about making them whole prior to GN's first video. We factually know that this wasn't the case, and yet, you're dying on the hill of wanting GN to talk to LMG/LTT.

 

Using the fact that journalists speak to the accused/alleged, also ignores the fact that the majority of them either get a "we decline to comment" or flat out ignored by the entity altogether (I recall reading a resource from a reporter who said that they report this usually when they send an email blast and don't hear back an hour or so, so then you have to ask yourself "is this really emblematic of fair reporting? If you ask me, this is far worse than if you never addressed them at all"). This adds nothing new to supposed fairness.

That's like saying that if something isn't a crime I can't see it as wrong. Just because it isn't a rule doesn't mean I can't view his reporting as biased.

Also, my comments are not about their video accuracy or their testing methodologies. It's about the Billet situation and how his report didn't really present an accurate representation of the truth because he didn't bother to ask for comment by LMG which would have allowed them to explain the situation further. Such as, the email error that occured, and how the block was originally given to them which lead to an inaccuracy in their system/documents for the item. It paints the situation very differently than how it was initially perceived.

[Silvy]

12 hours ago, Why_Me said:

Except we heard both sides.

Then clearly you didn't watch his video, because that isn't true at all. We didn't get LMGs side at all and everyone freaked out, took out their pitchforks, and treated Linus and LMG as if they were evil thieves.

[RobGMun]

2 hours ago, Annie.exe said:

That makes sense. That's just the status quo now as far as I was thinking. Thought it would look good to just continue on as normal at least in one way. 

It would have looked terrible! Like "carry on as normal because it doesn't matter and doesn't affect me" 

 

It would have also been a disaster due to the chat messages, it would be a **** show he would have probably gotten angry and frustrated again and said something and that would have been the final nail in the coffin. I'm pretty sure Linus asked the CEO if he could do it but It's highly predictable how it would have done and either the CEO or Yvonne would have slapped him down.

 

Calling the WAN show was for the best

[Majestic12]

4 minutes ago, RobGMun said:

It would have looked terrible! Like "carry on as normal because it doesn't matter and doesn't affect me" 

 

It would have also been a disaster due to the chat messages, it should have bee a **** show he would have probably gotten angry and frustrated again and said something and that would have been the final nail in the coffin. I'm pretty sure Linus asked the CEO if he could do it but It's highly predictable how it would have done and either the CEO or Yvonne would have slapped him down.

 

Calling the WAN show was for the best

The very first WAN show they'll do will be a shit show in chat guaranteed unless they do it like 3 years from now. They'll just need to bite the bullet and have no comment section for a while I think or just completely ignore it because it will be impossible to moderate.

[G3NTs]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:25 PM, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

I made a forum account today. Why... U ask? Because it feels like a witch hunt has started for the LMG. 

 

To keep it short, the way LMG is being accused at the moment is far over the top. Problems are bound to happen with any companies wishing to grow. This is basic theory from "production management". With the high volume, high quality productions at LMG, there is bound to be low flexibility, low robustness and long lead times. Secondly, small issues far upstream in the production chain are going to represent massive problems downstream/ at the end of the production chain. These thing are going to happen in any company.

 

But the thing to take away from this, this is by far one of the best "we are sorry" responses we could have had from any company. Compared to all the "we are sorry" responses from game companies we have had over the past few years, it shows Linus actually cares. He cares not only about our response, but also care for the accuracy of their reviews. And although this one didn't go as planned. They are sorry for the misinformation, the other company, and still wish to provide a true to their opinion recommendation score (taking into account that they tested the wrong gpu). 

 

Honestly, I could go on and on. But to the people hating on them right now, can't u see they actually care?!?

 

=================

Just something random:

When will the website and channel be renamed to Terran Tech Tips? Just kidding

=================

[Annie.exe]

10 minutes ago, RobGMun said:

It would have looked terrible! Like "carry on as normal because it doesn't matter and doesn't affect me" 

 

It would have also been a disaster due to the chat messages, it would be a **** show he would have probably gotten angry and frustrated again and said something and that would have been the final nail in the coffin. I'm pretty sure Linus asked the CEO if he could do it but It's highly predictable how it would have done and either the CEO or Yvonne would have slapped him down.

 

Calling the WAN show was for the best

I just don't really agree that it would have definitely looked terrible, or definitely have been a disaster. If Linus still can't keep his cool then yea though. Maybe it's just wishful thinking  

[G3NTs]

3 minutes ago, G3NTs said:

I made a forum account today. Why... U ask? Because it feels like a witch hunt has started for the LMG. 

 

To keep it short, the way LMG is being accused at the moment is far over the top. Problems are bound to happen with any companies wishing to grow. This is basic theory from "production management". With the high volume, high quality productions at LMG, there is bound to be low flexibility, low robustness and long lead times. Secondly, small issues far upstream in the production chain are going to represent massive problems downstream/ at the end of the production chain. These thing are going to happen in any company.

 

But the thing to take away from this, this is by far one of the best "we are sorry" responses we could have had from any company. Compared to all the "we are sorry" responses from game companies we have had over the past few years, it shows Linus actually cares. He cares not only about our response, but also care for the accuracy of their reviews. And although this one didn't go as planned. They are sorry for the misinformation, the other company, and still wish to provide a true to their opinion recommendation score (taking into account that they tested the wrong gpu). 

 

Honestly, I could go on and on. But to the people hating on them right now, can't u see they actually care?!?

 

=================

Just something random:

When will the website and channel be renamed to Terran Tech Tips? Just kidding

=================

Honestly again, people just try and spread throw hate on any weakness they can find. It's one of the most ugly sides of humanity.

[G3NTs]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:23 PM, Lyre said:

Based on the Likes on GN's Video It seems that most people agree with him (rightfully so)

 

 

a 220k View video with 72k Likes is wild

 

 

A similar LMG video with around the same views has and incredibly low like count in comparison

I hope that LMG just sucks it up and fixes their mistakes here in any way that they can but right now they're in hot water and if they don't do anything or double down we the fans have to take up arms (protest by disliking or unsubbing from FP or something like that we should)

what the pictures supposed to mean? U comparing apples to oranges?

[Ferazam]

28 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

That was my first thought. When you act as if you're the pinnacle of reporting and as if you're the pope on fire in the tech world, blasting holy vengeance on everything, be prepared for it to boomerang back into your face the moment you screw up. GN could only go after LMG because they've grown to a sufficient size to make a juicy target but behind the booming company are still people sacrificing a great deal to make it work and it's important not to lose track of this. They screwed up but everyone does at some point - it doesn't warrant a witch hunt and GN has been spearheading too many witch hunts to my liking. They need to be taken a peg down to learn some humility and I hope it's coming soon ...

Let's get revenge against the one who dared to point out the problems with LMG. 

No wonder why things got that bad. 

[Why_Me]

23 minutes ago, Silvy said:

Then clearly you didn't watch his video, because that isn't true at all. We didn't get LMGs side at all and everyone freaked out, took out their pitchforks, and treated Linus and LMG as if they were evil thieves.

And that is a lie. Linus specifically said he would rather give a messed up review vs a correct review in order to save $500.  btw nice post count ^^

[MercuryRain]

2 minutes ago, Ferazam said:

Let's get revenge against the one who dared to point out the problems with LMG. 

No wonder why things got that bad. 

 

As a couple of other people have said elsewhere, I kind of agree with Linus in one respect here.

 

It's just journalistic courtesy to reach out for comment before you run a story on somebody. You're under no obligation to include that in the story, but it is still courtesy to do so. And that's kind of a glaring omission when what you're alleging is that someone didn't dot all their i's and cross all their T's. It's kinda hypocritical.

 

Also yes, Linus handled the whole situation with Billet Labs wrong but like...c'mon. Billet Labs is a company that, under any other circumstances, most of the people on the Internet would be roasting for their business model. They don't own any IP, they are making their money by selling things that don't exist yet...

[Soid]

Not that anybody is going to read my little response to this 318 page thread...

 

but yeah, I think Gamer's Nexus made some fair points that resonated with my feelings when watching more recent videos. Many of them felt incomplete, half-assed, or lacking a point. Often you could see the frustration of the staff in charge of the videos, particularly when it's obvious he didn't read the script/plan or is just going wild and sabotaging the effort.

 

Linus often denigrates the constant crunch culture in the gaming industry on the WAN show, and there's some evidence that this may be happening with LMG staff. He's also fully acknowledged in the past some of his weaknesses as a leader, and has already taken steps to resolve them, but they haven't really had a chance to kick in. This has apparently been a particularly hectic time with the company, with the physical reorganization of the company after the labs integration and the transition to the new CEO, so I think Gamer's Nexus hit them at a time when they weren't in a position to do their best work either.

 

I do have to say that Gamer's Nexus's timing is a little suspect as well, since they did just announce investments into their own testing efforts, and this may be an effort for them to generate traffic over to them as the even more accurate testing guys.