Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, CerberusLabrat said:

Ah.  We are moving goalposts now I see. 

We're not moving goalposts. We're teaching you where they are, since your education has clearly left many gaps.

 

Commodities are products that fundamentally have no differentiating features. The term is often extended to more complex goods, should the category of these goods become increasingly uniform, to the point of loss of differentiation.

 

One good example of increasingly commodified or comoditized products are mass produced air coolers and AIOs, where performance or price to performance are largely the defining characteristic of the product against its competitors. Aesthetic appeal of a particular model or brand is of much lower importance, except in rare cases (let's say someone needs a white one for their custom build - they may choose the looks, sacrificing some performance in the process, just to achieve a desired effect). 

When you choose Noctua over Vetroo or some other brand, you want to see charts - of performance, of noise etc. Because any other features essentially mean little to most buyers. You can replace one with the other.

 

This is in opposition to customization or craftsmanship, which essentially produces one (or few), unique unit of a product. And then every other good falls in between, depending on the market reality.

 

The USP of a product like Billet Labs monoblock is not its performance because it is essentially not directly exchangeable for any other product, since other parameters have greater importance than direct performance.

 

You could build a custom two block loop but it wouldn't be the same thing. So performance figures, while informative, are not the main factor in the decision. It's a product crafted to order in small numbers. Just because you think you could cool it for a fraction of the price with some entirely different setup doesn't mean such a setup would fulfil the main function that the monoblock offers - i.e. saving space by bolting two heat generating components together in a space restricted build.

 

[Cooldoe]

8 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

And Nvidia isn't? Can you people follow more than one thing in a conversation?

And you are jumping to Nvidia because?

Oh maybe because you just lost your conversation

 

Funny you choose Nvidia though as Linus have been accused multiple time to be secretly sponsored by Nvidia

 

So he is both soft toward Nvidia and to harsh on Nvidia.

 

I guess Linus never wins

[MercuryRain]

Just now, mikaelus said:

We're not moving goalposts. We're teaching you where they are, since your education has clearly left many gaps.

 

Commodities are products that fundamentally have no differentiating features. The term is often extended to more complex goods, should the category of these goods become increasingly uniform, to the point of loss of differentiation.

 

One good example of increasingly commodified or comoditized products are mass produced air coolers and AIOs, where performance or price to performance are largely the defining characteristic of the product against its competitors. Aesthetic appeal of a particular model or brand is of much lower importance, except in rare cases (let's say someone needs a white one for their custom build - they may choose the looks, sacrificing some performance in the process, just to achieve a desired effect). 

When you choose Noctua over Vetroo or some other brand, you want to see charts - of performance, of noise etc. Because any other features essentially mean little to most buyers. You can replace one with the other.

 

This is in opposition to customization or craftsmanship, which essentially produces one (or few), unique unit of a product. And then every other good falls in between, depending on the market reality.

 

The USP of a product like Billet Labs monoblock is not its performance because it is essentially not directly exchangeable for any other product, since other parameters have greater importance than direct performance.

 

You could build a custom two block loop but it wouldn't be the same thing. So performance figures, while informative, are not the main factor in the decision. It's a product crafted to order in small numbers. Just because you think you could cool it for a fraction of the price with some entirely different setup doesn't mean such a setup would fulfil the main function that the monoblock offers - i.e. saving space by bolting two heat generating components together in a space restricted build.

 

 

Buddy, friend, pal, my dude.

 

My criticism of Billet Labs has nothing to do with their performance. Okay? Do we understand that bit?

My criticism of Billet Labs is that, fundamentally, they are selling - for *$800* - something that they do not have and they have implied multiple times over the last several days that they can not reliably reproduce.

 

That is what we call a scam.  At the VERY LEAST dishonest business practice.

[Cooldoe]

2 minutes ago, CerberusLabrat said:

 

Do you think he buys AI art?

I bet he invest in NFT

[mikaelus]

9 minutes ago, CerberusLabrat said:

I didn't say Nvidia isn't charging Market rate.  They are charging, essentially, what the card costs for them to make.  Slightly more, because Nvidia actually DOES need to profit off of them, since its the only thing they sell.

 

Just because it costs them that much money to make it does not mean that the performance it offers is worth that amount of money.  Linus can say all he wants that something would be awesome if it were $50 or $100 less expensive because we're not talking about some bespoke product or something that is interchangeable with all other graphics cards.  If graphics cards that are $50 to $100 less expensive give the same performance...say it with me now...

It's one thing to dream, it's another to do a public boycott of a product because you don't agree with the price, the basis of which you clearly do not understand.

 

Are you even aware of what your idol is saying and doing?

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, Cooldoe said:

And you are jumping to Nvidia because?

Oh maybe because you just lost your conversation

 

Funny you choose Nvidia though as Linus have been accused multiple time to be secretly sponsored by Nvidia

 

So he is both soft toward Nvidia and to harsh on Nvidia.

 

I guess Linus never wins

You mean the bloke who keeps bitching about how expensive GPUs are to the point he vowed not to use Nvidia in his home computers?

 

That guy?

 

I wonder if you people even watch LTT videos.

[MercuryRain]

Just now, mikaelus said:

Are you even aware of what your idol is saying and doing?

No.  Because she lives in Malaysia and she's probably busy recording a song that is going to be awesome when it releases.

[mikaelus]

1 minute ago, Cooldoe said:

I bet he invest in NFT

It gives me great pleasure to see how wrong you are about everything you say or even imagine here Literally, everything.

[Loopers]

30 minutes ago, CerberusLabrat said:

https://a.co/d/6TVvmG3

This amazon basics backpack?

First, it's $25. On sale down from $40. Second, it's 15 Liters.  Linus' is 35.  Third, the LTT backpack is MUCH higher quality and will last much longer than that piece of shit will.

I have a backpack obsession.

 

I can 100% confirm the LTT fits in the high-end side of things, but the front pocket is disappointing and 2 laptops are the most I can get in with a steam deck at the bottom. Not getting my Samsung tablet without pushing my luck. The LTT backpack is among the better ones I've used. This screenshot is my Amazon history not accounting high end bags direct from other stores.

 

Proof below of my obsession lol I think I've tested a few. LTT bag isn't perfect, but it's surprisingly good.

[MercuryRain]

1 minute ago, mikaelus said:

You mean the bloke who keeps bitching about how expensive GPUs are to the point he vowed not to use Nvidia in his home computers?

 

That guy?

 

I wonder if you people even watch LTT videos.

This is the last time he built a computer for himself.  He put Nvidia in it.

[Cooldoe]

3 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

It's one thing to dream, it's another to do a public boycott of a product because you don't agree with the price, the basis of which you clearly do not understand.

 

Are you even aware of what your idol is saying and doing?

When did he even do that?

Linus receive a lot of criticisms because he review 4090ti with some positive spin.

You are getting mixed up between Linus and GN/Jay2c

[DestructiveLlama]

Judging by the active topic on this thread, I think we're over the GN controversy lol  .

 

Found a new thing to be mad about.

[Loopers]

33 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

Do you comprehend the word "commodified"? 

 

This is the sad problem with fans of tech channels - you people are simply on a very low intellectual level to comprehend these things.

When losing the argument, resort to ad hominem, but go on champ.

[smirb]

Not trying to defend Linus, but y’all seem to just repeat history…

 

There is an allegory of WWII out there titled “(The) Terrible Things.” Once the “Terrible things” do their thing and destroy the lives of innocent beings, the others who used to live in harmony with the victims start complaining about them once they are gone. And it’s not “The terrible things should be stopped,” it’s “I’m glad the victims are gone. (Insert complaint that did not exist).”

 

When terrible things happened to Linus, people start complaining even though they were semi-fine with it initially.

[MercuryRain]

1 minute ago, smirb said:

Not trying to defend Linus, but y’all seem to just repeat history…

 

There is an allegory of WWII out there titled “(The) Terrible Things.” Once the “Terrible things” do their thing and destroy the lives of innocent beings, the others who used to live in harmony with the victims start complaining about them once they are gone. And it’s not “The terrible things should be stopped,” it’s “I’m glad the victims are gone. (Insert complaint that did not exist).”

 

When terrible things happened to Linus, people start complaining even though they were semi-fine with it initially.

 

Hey, my standpoint in all of this is;

Everyone, do better.

 

LTT: Get all your data accurate and even if you intend to come to the same conclusion even if something were to happen, spend the time and money to test it right anyway.

 

GN/Steve: Follow basic journalistic courtesy.

 

Billet Labs: Guys, please sell things you actually have and can reliably replicate.

[escape093]

7 minutes ago, MercuryRain said:

 

Hey, my standpoint in all of this is;

Everyone, do better.

 

LTT: Get all your data accurate and even if you intend to come to the same conclusion even if something were to happen, spend the time and money to test it right anyway.

 

GN/Steve: Follow basic journalistic courtesy.

 

Billet Labs: Guys, please sell things you actually have and can reliably replicate.

What is "basic jounalistic courtesy" to you? Letting Linus get ahead of the narrative? What information was there that Steve was missing? I think Linus would have just used it as an opportunity to downplay the whole thing and proceed as normal. Hell, he tried to do just that with his first response!

[MercuryRain]

7 minutes ago, escape093 said:

What is "basic jounalistic courtesy" to you? Letting Linus get ahead of the narrative? What information was there that Steve was missing? I think Linus would have just used it as an opportunity to downplay the whole thing and proceed as normal. Hell, he tried to do just that with his first response!

 

It is still basic journalistic courtesy to reach out for comment before you run a story on them.  You are under no obligation to wait for a response from them, you are under no obligation to include said commentary verbatim, or to spin it in a positive light.  But it IS journalistic courtesy to reach out for comment.

 

You may have noticed that Linus never once complained that the video was released from Gamers' Nexus.  He complained that Steve did not reach out to him for a comment.  

 

It's not because he wanted to get ahead of the story.  It is basic courtesy not to blindside someone like this. 

 

And for someone who's entire argument is that LTT doesn't dot their i's or cross their T's when it comes to testing accuracy and validity, it's a blatant and glaring omission on Steve's part that he chose not to follow journalistic courtesy and that doesn't exactly speak highly of his sincerity in the matter.

[smirb]

The more this progresses, the less faith in humanity I have…

 

welp. Time to go touch grass and play drum set. The Internet has gone beyond repair.

[Cooldoe]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:34 AM, Cavalry Canuck said:

GN isn’t wrong. But, I feel this is a scenario where the pot is calling the kettle black, and it won’t end well for anyone involved.
 

The example I will lean on is GN’s modmat error, where they had mislabeled pins on their diagrams. I don’t recall if there was a money back option or not. What I do recall is that the one “fix” amounted to little more than a decal. There was no product-replacement option. Sure, it may make the current customer happy, but the mislabeled mats are still out there. At some point down the road someone may look at the mat from GN, a reputable source, and break something.
 

Now, compare that to GNs expectations of LMG over the backpack issue (what was it, carabiner issue?). While GN’s response to their own problems were acceptable (particularly given the costs to fix the error properly for an organization of their size), they weren’t ideal. They certainly didn’t meet the same standard they were holding LMG to.

Not trying to defend LMG, but I think it’s important to have the perspective that no one is innocent in this business. One creator calling out another, whether the intentions are honest or disingenuous, doesn’t mean that they themselves aren’t also in the midst of their own errors.

 

In for the intervention content, though. Would be something to see everyone in the tech community list their grievances with Linus, have him atone for them (or rebuff them), and we go from there with whatever the outcome is. Nothing good will come from the high-profile tech creator feud that this could easily devolve into.

Totally agree with you my gripe with GN is that they did not hold the same standard that they put LMG on.

 

They need to properly disclose what Linus have done to address some of the mistake that they accuse of and most of the issue does not occur on lmg video but other content provider as well. Especially about the sponsor bias where he did provide any proof of bias but only insinuating bias. Which very bad in my book because that is what fox news did with their reporting.

[smirb]

Linus’s responses are basically my responses months ago to defend myself spamming in a group chat. It felt like a everyone v 1.

 

in the end I was removed from the chat but was given a chance to resolve issues

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, MercuryRain said:

I didn't say Nvidia isn't charging Market rate.  They are charging, essentially, what the card costs for them to make.  Slightly more, because Nvidia actually DOES need to profit off of them, since its the only thing they sell.

That isn't true, Nvidia has higher margins than even Apple does. Nvidia profits so much from consumer graphics cards it isn't even their main focus, they cared about more about crypto when it was the hype, now they care more about AI/ datacenter sales, the egregious prices with the 40 series shows Nvidia doesn't care about selling gaming GPU's.

51 minutes ago, MercuryRain said:

LTT doesn't dot their i's or cross their T's when it comes to testing accuracy and validity

Because LTT doesn't, and its very clear they don't care given they monetized their video response and put merch store ads into the video. LTT hasn't cared about getting accuracy right for years, even when people like GN have called them out before but Linus either goes on a rant about he's never wrong or ignores any requests to improve video quality. The surprise wake up call was necessary or else Linus would've tried to deny and deflect everything, he tried to deny any wrongdoing and decided to deflect instead of simply apologizing with the pinned post in this thread.

Meanwhile the LTT fanbase has to find something to be mad about and decided to be hyper fixated on LTT gaslighting about ethics when they didn't have any ethics or objectivity in reviewing regarding the Billet issue and decided to spin the blame back onto GN.

[Loopers]

19 minutes ago, MercuryRain said:

I am on nobody's side in this entire situation

This is what I don't understand with people who think you or I are defending Linus. I'm defending integrity and honesty. You cannot say you did your job just like Linus didn't do him properly testing the block. (Eg: Steve not reaching out for comment). People trying to correlate "It would give Linus a head start on narrative." Hmm, no? Stop the press and fire all journalists. We should no longer expect fact-finding because should we expect them to reach out for comment it may give xyz a head start on narrative and spin.

What a weird world we live in. 

 

The message is clear unless you join the witch hunt and get on the bandwagon, you're a shill or whatever excuse someone has. The same goes for those who hate Linus while pretending they're being impartial. They wear the bias and hate on their sleeves when going on the attack. LMG, GN, and Billet share some form of blame on all sides, period. 

[MercuryRain]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

That isn't true, Nvidia has higher margins than even Apple does. Nvidia profits so much from consumer graphics cards it isn't even their main focus, they care about more about crypto when it was the hype, now they care more about AI/ datacenter sales, the egregious prices with the 40 series shows Nvidia doesn't care about selling gaming GPU's.

I feel the need to comment that I have not bought a GPU since I bought my 1080 Ti.  When it was brand new.  The prices fucked off into the stratosphere during COVID and I do not feel qualified to discern if that was from a pacific ocean sized supply and demand mismatch or just from corporate greed.

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

Because LTT doesn't, and its very clear they don't care given they monetized their video response and put merch store ads into the video. LTT hasn't cared about getting accuracy right for years, even when people like GN have called them out before but Linus either goes on a rant about he's never wrong or ignores any requests to improve video quality.

Meanwhile the LTT fanbase has to find something to be mad about and decided to be hyper fixated on LTT gaslighting about ethics when they didn't have any ethics or objectivity in reviewing regarding the Billet issue and decided to spin the blame back onto GN.

 

Linus doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to ethics, and I'm not pretending they do.  But they're also not trying to stand on that leg.  I am not trying to stand on that leg.  I am using Steve's own words against him - if you want to criticize someone, do the job properly and then you have a position to criticize from.  

He did not do the journalism correctly, in my opinion.  It does not take away from the message, but it does call doubt towards his motivation. 

[escape093]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:34 PM, Cavalry Canuck said:

While GN’s response to their own problems were acceptable (particularly given the costs to fix the error properly for an organization of their size), they weren’t ideal. They certainly didn’t meet the same standard they were holding LMG to.

No shit. You would think that LMG, a multi-million dollar company, who are able to cover those kinds of costs, would be held to a higher standard than Gamers Nexus.

[MercuryRain]

1 minute ago, escape093 said:

No shit. You would think that LMG, a multi-million dollar company, who are able to cover those kinds of costs, would be held to a higher standard than Gamers Nexus.

 

The difference in size of company is already accounted for in Cav's commentary.  You are literally accomplishing nothing stressing it further, nor are you addressing the criticism of GN contained within the commentary.