Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Guest]

Well guess who just hit 2million subs. Do we say well-done to GN for messing someone up to get subs? I am done with this topic time to move on

[jooroth18]

On 8/14/2023 at 5:38 PM, LinusTech said:

Getting all the details before publication is *NOT* the opposite of journalistic integrity.

This isn't about being on a side... There's no war. You don't need to fight. You need to slow down and think.... 

This really did age well...

[Mbmm]

13 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

Leaving a review of a purchase doesn't make you a journalist though does it?

 

LMG has well documented screw ups and Linus constantly makes himself seem like an out of touch cretin, but tbf he usually comes out with his hands up.

 

Steve here is acting like a god of all YouTube and hasn't bothered to follow any proper journalistic practises the 1 time he does a deep dive into a competitor. He even acknowledges himself that he didn't want to get any response from LMG as that would undermine his findings.

1. Well technically speaking, a journalist can review a place like any other. (I get what you mean but not all examples are perfect.)

2. Given LMG screws up so much and keeps coming out with his hands up; maybe he should get the same treatment Anker did?

3. Steve did this with Newegg and others. I'm by far from his white night as I do feel he is hypercritical of businesses which is a turn off, but I will say his words, "that he didn't want to get a response from LMG" was because Linus made a post on LTT Forums and he took that as his response. This is why he used the words gaslighting.

 

If you are perceiving him as a god that seems to be more of an issue with your perception than the channel itself. I mean, we could say the same thing about LMG touting their labs and trying to dunk on other benchmark / testers. Also, I'll take a page from Steve here and not pursue a further comment.

 

Edited for clarity*

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, 3m3m said:

Well guess who just hit 2million subs. Do we say well-done to GN for messing someone up to get subs? I am done with this topic time to move on

Well deserved, imho.

[AbsoluteWoo]

9 minutes ago, emcue said:

Just posting hundreds of pages in... I really don't see the hooplah's everyone's getting. The only real issue is the auctioning of the Billet labs block. I'm totally with the "It's a waste to retest with a 3090" stuff -- the product had  no niche, with its price and whatnot, no matter the actual performance.

 

But I am glad to see the company taking some time to have a "let's regroup" vacation, so what's good there. I just don't get any of the harsh community backlash... I really don't.

Welcome to the internet, where the smallest mistake makes you worse than hitler.

[RadiatingLight]

Just now, djenson said:

Suddenly, you want the car back.

No, the car always belonged to the car company. There's no "suddenly" about this. Products being loaned to reviewers is common.

2 minutes ago, djenson said:

I explain this to you and offer to give you money compensation

This was only offered after the GN video went live. (likely it would have been offered either way, but your retelling does skip this fact)

3 minutes ago, djenson said:

I then manage to get this rare and one of a kind supercar back, but you still want the monetary value

Yes, because they've already spent money and resources to make another supercar, and the first one will take a long time to get back, plus who knows what condition it's in. Taking the money absolutely makes sense here for Billet.

4 minutes ago, djenson said:

caused your production like to "stall" even though you were happy to let me keep it earlier. 

The idea here is that LMG should have reviewed the cooler, and then given it back so that Billet could distribute it to another media outlet. Not being able to redistribute the cooler means that they're blocked from getting any more coverage of it. It was at LMG for a VERY long time after the review was shot.

[djenson]

1 minute ago, RadiatingLight said:

No, the car always belonged to the car company. There's no "suddenly" about this. Products being loaned to reviewers is common.

 

 

Re-read the facts. this wasn't a "have this for a review then we want it back" They even said themself they *Were* happy to let LTT keep it, until the negative review 

[atxcyclist]

13 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

Except that Steve has reached out several times over the years with no success and that others have tried to reach out several times recently over this very subject.

 

...Guess you missed that part...

He didn’t this time, he said so and LMG/Linus also said so. Steve worked on this video for months and never reached-out once.

[AHPanda]

1 minute ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

the product had  no niche, with its price and whatnot, no matter the actual performance.

If the product they recieved had 'no niche' (which I fully disagree too), why bother to accept and review it to begin with?

 

They took the prototype, poorly covered it, then publicly called out anyone who said Linus handled it poorly, proceeded to then keep the expensive prototype for weeks, lose it, ends up selling it to the highest bidder, try to sweep that under the rug and pretend this never happened. LMG are 1000% in the wrong here.

 

As to the 'no niche' part. If you had a lick of sense, you'd know this would not be true.

[AbsoluteWoo]

2 minutes ago, Mbmm said:

1. Well technically speaking, a journalist can review a place like any other. (I get what you mean but not all examples are perfect.)

2. Given LMG screws up so much and keeps coming out with his hands up; maybe he should get the same treatment Anker did?

3. Steve did this with Newegg and others. I'm by far from his white night as I do feel there are times when he is hypercritical of businesses, but I will say his words that he didn't want to get a response from LMG because Linus made a post on LTT Forums and he took that as his response. This is why he used the words gaslighting.

 

If you are perceiving him as a god that seems to be more of an issue with your perception than the channel itself. I mean, we could say the same thing about LMG touting their labs and trying to dunk on other benchmark / testers. Also, I'll take a page from Steve here and not pursue a further comment.

 

I wouldn't say LTT should be treated like Anker because they publicly lied to hide illegal practises. LTT has just grown too fast and needs to slow down because at present they are making too many mistakes. I personally haven't watched much LTT recently because I find the videos have been lacking quality.

 

I think the difference, in my eyes, between LTT and GN is that Linus openly admits to his mistakes (eventually). Steve posts criticism of people and then doesn't address it again, regardless of him being wrong or not.

[Iseez]

15 hours ago, Drazil100 said:

I really appreciate your well thought out and measured post and your fairly unique opinion in this sea of people repeating the same thing over and over again. It is true that this is something that could be biasing Steve, on the other hand I also think it adds credibility to him. He has been doing deep dives and technical analysis on PC hardware for years. He knows his stuff. He has probably made his fair share of mistakes (I don't know I don't really watch him that much) but he is uniquely qualified to assess the quality of LTT Labs findings and the data presented in their videos.

It is worth keeping in mind that Steve stands to gain a lot for knocking Linus down a peg given that they are both going in the same direction. We don't necessarily have the evidence that this has actually influenced him, but we should be keeping this in mind.

Edit: Also welcome to the forum. It's good to see at least SOME of the new faces here are not here to spout hate and vitriol. More level headed participants is always welcome.

I share the same opinion as @ReallyThough and I as far as I have scrolled I havent seen anyone talk about the fact that GN and LTT have been coexisting for a while, but the channels are (were?) very different since LMG content is more goofy and entertaining, rather than serious and informatic. But now that the Labs thing is becoming a reality, soon both GN and LTT will become more direct competitors.

 

The thing I found the most interesting about the GN video is the amount of evidence is enormous, which makes me think that Steve and the people at GN, have been concious about everything mentioned in the video for a while but made the concious decision of not saying anything until now. Because now that the Labs thing is becoming a reality they are now direct competitors.

 

Which in my opinion is kind of hypocritical, because that makes me think they didnt make the video beacuse that is their journalistic purpose, if that was the case, they would've done that a long time ago. 

[Fire_Burns_22]

3 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

I can't accept that they LOST the 3090 Ti that came with the cooler
I can't accept that they didn't send it back promptly
I can't accept that they after promising to send it back TWICE still hadn't done so
I can't accept that they say "it will be send off sometime next week" after already been promised TWICE to be sent off... and then it gets misplaced so someone snatches it up for auction
I can't accept that they don't do a proper review on the real card they were even provided...

there where so many "wtf is going on here" problems... it wasn't just a minor mistake but massive incompetence in a massive string of events...

It doesn't sound like you have much experience in a multi-department corporation.

This isn't really a stretch when you have multiple people responsible for acquiring, using, tracking, storing, and returning something. 
I work for a fortune 100 company, and I've personally seen things like this happen. I'll give you an example

I had a computer upgrade, in a large company there is normally a process for disposing of devices. Ours had been for years, that we gave it to the on-site IT support guy and he handled everything. However, the process had changed that we were individually tracked for our devices, but it was still normal practice for the IT guy to handle sending back devices. I dropped off my old computer with him, he sent it to the disposal company like normal. When they received it they should have logged it as such, and all systems would be fine, but apparently there were delays by our IT guy, there were delays at the disposal company. Meanwhile our Asset Management group was reaching out to me asking where it was, I tell them I sent it back, it should update soon, the IT guy does the same two weeks later when they still didn't see it. We finally had to just mark the device as lost because it was still showing in my inventory. It did eventually get disposed of (six months later) but it could easily have been stolen or otherwise lost.

LMG has a procurement department that obtains stuff, a logistics department that tracks and stores stuff in their possession, and writers who also receive stuff from companies (like Billett) directly. The logistics department would have been responsible for returning an item, but if the writer still had it, or if it was with another group, it's quite possible they had every intention of sending it back. Or the writer could have initially agreed to send it back, then the logistics department agreed to send it back, but then it was misplaced and subsequently assigned to the auction by a completely different department (business department). It's simply too many cooks in the kitchen without adequate tracking of assets, which is exactly what Luke addressed in todays video.

[RadiatingLight]

3 minutes ago, djenson said:

Re-read the facts. this wasn't a "have this for a review then we want it back" They even said themself they *Were* happy to let LTT keep it, until the negative review 

I haven't seen that anywhere, but I may be wrong.

Where did they say this?

[dustypaws]

3 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

He didn’t this time, he said so and LMG/Linus also said so. Steve worked on this video for months and never reached-out once.

He didn't have to reach out. That's really how investigative journalism works. You can't reach out and therefor inform the person or company about the work you're currently on.

[Godiwa]

13 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

Yeah it was a massive string of incompetence. Have you never worked for/had experiences with a medium+ sized company? Happens all the time everywhere. Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Sony, Meta, Netflix, Wal-Mart, Coca-Cola, etc. They will have massive monumental screw-ups all the time.

I have worked for Novo Nordisk (you might know them from insulin that is a huge market "over there") so yes I have worked for a HUGE company even with a quiet company party for 4000 employees at a stadium... went very smoothly.

 

 

1 minute ago, Fire_Burns_22 said:

It doesn't sound like you have much experience in a multi-department corporation.

This isn't really a stretch when you have multiple people responsible for acquiring, using, tracking, storing, and returning something. 
I work for a fortune 100 company, and I've personally seen things like this happen. I'll give you an example

 

will add you here... look at the answer above... that a big enough company for you? one of the world leader medical companies...

[bandainamcofan]

17 minutes ago, emcue said:

I'm totally with the "It's a waste to retest with a 3090" stuff -- the product had  no niche, with its price and whatnot, no matter the actual performance.

Irrelevant. If you want to be taken seriously as a reviewer, you review every product properly. If only one person who saw the video wanted to buy it, the correct thing to do would be review it right for the sake of that potential one person.

[goodtofufriday]

2 hours ago, SimonShipperd said:

This was already addressed in the past. Blaming this on Linus is completely nuts, but I understand a grieving father. But the facts:

 

1. In the NCIX auction video, you can see that Linus wants to buy the silver play button.

2. Linus arrived to late and the button was already sold to the kid that owned MindChop.

3. Linus asked if he could buy it from him since it holds sentimental value to him.

4. The kid and his dad explain he never received the silver play button for his own channel.

5. The kid offers Linus to buy the play button and shows him his channel

6. The kid decides to sell to Linus, but Linus decides that the kid can keep it after seeing his channel

7.  Linus gives him a shout out for being so cool to offering to sell the button back to him

8. Linus gives the kid's channel a shout out in the video.

 

After this, some idiots with keyboards and to much time on their hands decided to harass the kid, even after Linus telling them to stop that idiotic behavior.

 

It annoys me that people keep bring up stuff like this, the wage discussions and union talk without presenting the facts as they actually are. Simply to frame Linus as a monster.

Is there even ANY and i mean ANY evidence that this wasnt just some random guy making a post?

[andreimj]

16 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

I believe it was pure accident that "someone" saw that in their eyes "piece of junk" and thought he lets sell this for the charity... that I can accept...

I can't accept that they LOST the 3090 Ti that came with the cooler
I can't accept that they didn't send it back promptly
I can't accept that they after promising to send it back TWICE still hadn't done so
I can't accept that they say "it will be send off sometime next week" after already been promised TWICE to be sent off... and then it gets misplaced so someone snatches it up for auction
I can't accept that they don't do a proper review on the real card they were even provided...

there where so many "wtf is going on here" problems... it wasn't just a minor mistake but massive incompetence in a massive string of events...

it's fine dude. we get it...you can't accept, now delete your account on LinusTechTips

[RadiatingLight]

1 minute ago, goodtofufriday said:

Is there even ANY and i mean ANY evidence that this wasnt just some random guy making a post?

Linus himself commented on the Reddit post with condolences.

[Poinkachu]

16 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

I haven't seen that anywhere, but I may be wrong.

Where did they say this?

He probably meant the email Colton showed 20:51 13:18 into the apology video.

 

edit : Fuck me and my night brain

Sorry for that shit @RadiatingLight, corrected.

[atxcyclist]

3 minutes ago, dustypaws said:

He didn't have to reach out. That's really how investigative journalism works. You can't reach out and therefor inform the person or company about the work you're currently on.

What? Every journalism piece, if they want the other side of a story they make contact. If they don’t make contact, there’s always a bit of ‘we reached-out to *insert name here* for comment and never heard back’. The idea that journalists don’t typically make contact with a subject they’re doing a story on, before the story goes public, is absolutely bullshit.

[AHPanda]

2 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

I haven't seen that anywhere, but I may be wrong.

Where did they say this?

They didn't. They said they no longer wanted the item back and wanted a monetary compensation after the auction because they feared the product was too far damaged.

[Godiwa]

20 minutes ago, emcue said:

Just posting hundreds of pages in... I really don't see the hooplah's everyone's getting. The only real issue is the auctioning of the Billet labs block. I'm totally with the "It's a waste to retest with a 3090" stuff -- the product had  no niche, with its price and whatnot, no matter the actual performance.

 

But I am glad to see the company taking some time to have a "let's regroup" vacation, so what's good there. I just don't get any of the harsh community backlash... I really don't.

totally irrelevant if some pleb that uses like a 1060 won't buy it... this thing isn't for you... it is for the most extreme of pc tech buyers... and yes they exist... same ppl that back in the day bought Titan cards... because they want the best of the best... or they want the most cool looking or most obscure or most rare whatever... those are the market... and they do exist...

just like there are people that buy a Prius and those that buy Bugatti Veyrons for fun...

[goodtofufriday]

1 minute ago, RadiatingLight said:

Linus himself commented on the Reddit post with condolences.

So at best we have that Linus wasnt going to call someone a liar given the allegation. 

[dustypaws]

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

What? Every journalism piece, if they want the other side of a story they make contact. If they don’t make contact, there’s always a bit of ‘we reached-out to *insert name here* for comment and never heard back’. The idea that journalists don’t typically make contact with a subject they’re doing a story on, is absolutely bullshit.

You really need to look up "investigative journalism". Ever heard of the "Panama Papers" or similar works of journalism. There is absolutely no contact between the subject and the journalists.

 

And no...I'm comparing the Panama Papers to Steves work... But the type of work is similar...