Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[rav007]

1 minute ago, jos said:

How many people here watch these videos for actual data other than when doing a purchase decision? And when doing purchase decision how many rely just on one source for decision? Linus tech tips is a tech entertainment channel. I enjoy watching it. And I will continue to do so. How many can deny they became pc enthusiast because of him? He is always good for industry. The auctioning off part was terrible on part of the LMG, but when a company put a sample onto a public outlet then the product and anything that can be learned is public knowledge not a secret anymore. Patents are there to protect. They can ask for compensation for making new prototype and for lossess in time. When sending a product for review they should have given a contract on how to handle things, if it is not publically released or someome should be there along with the product, I don't know if this was followed.

With labs they are positioning themselves into the data space, not just for entertainment. In that space the scrutiny is different because it goes from anecdotes and opinions to facts. Misrepresentation of facts ruins reputations and gets people fired. Its a tough switch for an entertainment channel to make into fact based content, but if they are going full bore, there is almost no margin for error. Errors are supposed to be an anomaly, not a trend.

[kendirect]

8 minutes ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

They did not.

 

They told them the individual thing costs X and needs to be returned.  HE then said "We'll compensate you", but only after the GN video got released, and they have yet to take him up on that.

 

No agreement has been made.  I'm hoping Billet sues the fuck out of LTT and Linus for this incredible breach in trust and good practice.

Bro is yelling about how he doesn't understand the law.

[Monolithic]

2 minutes ago, Vilacom said:

That’s not the issue.

The issue is its an $800 water block in a space where $400 water blocks are considered vanity purchases and extremely overpriced and excellent top of the line versions are sold for about $200, and you’ll need a new one each time you upgrade.  

It’s like a Rolex watch, they are very pretty and there is a market for them among people who are looking for a way to try to impress other people with lots of money, but no one in their right mind would look at a Rolex and say “This is worth considering for anyone purchasing a watch”.  

It’s a very pretty cooler, but it’s never going to be worth someone spending $800 on it for performance, you should spend $80 on a solid air cooler and put the other $720 into a better graphics card, processor, higher end memory, literally anything else that could be a bottleneck.  

That was the point, you don’t need to review the performance of something like this because there isn’t any result that would make spending 10 times a good air cooler on literally just the block for the GPU a good use of money. 

That's not true. What if the prototype ran at 30 degrees cooler than EKG's best block? We wouldn't know because Linus didn't properly test it, and then pretty much told Billet lies about returning it so it could be properly tested, only to pretty much tell them to F off followed by an "oopsie".

[ILikeHardware]

1 minute ago, jeo said:

I understand why some people feel strongly but the volume seems odd.

I am probably old and out of touch.

Another reasonable option is that GN has a very passionate fan base who also feel personally attached to Ltt as well (they are far more motivated to speak out, then if they didn't care about GNs target).

 

That seems more likely than bots.

 

I am one of the new ones and have been a fan of LTT for years, but only ever watched the YT videos. I think there's a lot of us. I'm not even subscribed to GN, but the YT algorithm probably recommended it because the subject was LTT.

[wanshow]

18 hours ago, wanshow said:

[...]

If Linus sticks to his guns with his earlier statement in the thread, then I'm done with LMG content. 

[...]

I don't really expect LMG's content to change, if they are chasing what they perceive to be the algorithm's preference (and mass appeal), growth, higher frequency, lower quality, etc. is probably what you will get.

[...]

In light of all the issues, and now finding out that Linus unapologetically misrepresented the timeline of events with Billet, I'm out. A big part of the LMG brand is "transparency", "integrity", and so forth. When it came to them being on the receiving end of an issue like this, where those values mattered, they didn't uphold them.

 

As we've seen time and time again in gaming with microtransactions, pre-orders on incomplete products, and so forth, all that really matters is voting with your wallet. We know this message falls on deaf ears, and so the gaming industry churns out stinkers that rake in cash. If these things matter to you, I strongly encourage you to consider what signal it sends if you continue giving your view time and money to a company that behaves this way. If there is no significant consequence for bad behaviour, then don't cry about the product you'll be receiving a year from now. Being coerced into posting on your own forum with a "sorry we keep making oopsies, also we didn't sell, it was an auction to charity!" with a temporary dip in views or maybe even uptick is not going to mean anything. 

[RevengeofProfKatz]

1 hour ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'll just point you to Billet Labs public statement on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/

 

June 30th, Linus agreed to send the prototype water block back, along with the 3090 Ti back to Billet if required (which it was).
July 6th, Linus again stated their intention to send prototype and card back.
July 12th, Linus stated it would be sent out the following week.
July 30th, over two weeks later after Linus provided a shipping time frame to return the property, Linus sold said property/ a prototype/ that did not belong to him.
Early August 10th Linus stated: "So, there was a communication mishap and we ended up auctioning off the Monoblock in a silent auction for charity at LTX. The good news, is that it isn't just sitting on a shelf"
August 14th Linus lied in a post on this thread about having discussions with Billet and having come to an agreement for compensation, when in actuality, Linus had ghosted Billet after Billet had wanted to know how Linus planned to fix the problem in early August.
August 14th, after GN posted their story, is the first time Linus reached out after ghosting Billet. Billet stated to GN today they have not replied back yet to Linus's email sent to them today concerning this.

The moment to fix it started on June 30th, not August 10th with a public apology to Billet for the half-assed and completely unprofessional preview work that was done. The prototype and card included with it should have been sent back to Billet in early July, or more appropriately, when the preview with all the half-assed, flawed testing and product bashing was done. Simple as that. Linus has had a a month to fix it, and instead of doing so, made it worse by then selling the prototype at the end of July, and trying to ghost Billet when Billet wanted them to make it right.

[VascoM]

9 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

I think what they meant is that he is officially hired as CEO, but he is still getting up to speed on everything he is responsible for. Linus still has to spend time with him and fill him in on all of their processes etc.

 

10 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

I think what they meant is that he is officially hired as CEO, but he is still getting up to speed on everything he is responsible for. Linus still has to spend time with him and fill him in on all of their processes etc.

Actually, not,what is in the internet in that he is ceo from July 1st, and handling a PR disaster and several problems is really a work to be done by him, no Linus, if someone has to be groomed to deal with this situation…then that person is  no CEO material. It’s really strange that Linus cargo just changed to CVO on the website mas the CEO is completely absent…absent from everywhere . Any major company has the CEO making a statement in day one .

[jitteryzeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Vilacom said:

So you’re hoping a startup spends more money than that prototype could have possibly cost to make before this ever sees the interior of a courtroom in order to get some money back for the prototype?

So you’re hoping Billet goes out of business to try to spite Linus?

Nah I'm hoping they get a lawyer to work on contingency that has a chip on their shoulder and likes to deal with hucksters.

[jeo]

6 minutes ago, GilmourD said:

Honestly it's probably brigading from Reddit, which itself has become the incel dumpster fire that Twitter was pre-Musk after Reddit's policies drove off a good deal of good users. 

Interesting, never really looked at their subreddit. Found it very uninteresting.

 

So what you're saying is some people just need to get laid.

[JoshuaScholar]

2 minutes ago, kendirect said:

Steve has literally never been a good person, it's amazing how few people understand that.

You need real relationships, you're making way too much of your opinion of people you don't know!

[mnxmfan]

1 minute ago, Vilacom said:

That’s not the issue.

The issue is its an $800 water block in a space where $400 water blocks are considered vanity purchases and extremely overpriced and excellent top of the line versions are sold for about $200, and you’ll need a new one each time you upgrade.  

It’s like a Rolex watch, they are very pretty and there is a market for them among people who are looking for a way to try to impress other people with lots of money, but no one in their right mind would look at a Rolex and say “This is worth considering for anyone purchasing a watch”.  

It’s a very pretty cooler, but it’s never going to be worth someone spending $800 on it for performance, you should spend $80 on a solid air cooler and put the other $720 into a better graphics card, processor, higher end memory, literally anything else that could be a bottleneck.  

That was the point, you don’t need to review the performance of something like this because there isn’t any result that would make spending 10 times a good air cooler on literally just the block for the GPU a good use of money. 

Then don't review the performance.

 

Linus didn't do that.  He reviewed it, and he got it MAJORLY wrong.  That video shouldn't exist, or should have been fixed before.  It can still come to the same conclusion, but at least get the review RIGHT if you are going to do it, because at least you can objectively say "yes, the product works, but no we don't think it's worth the money".

 

Instead, LTT looks really, really dumb here.  Over a $500 reshoot.

[DestructiveLlama]

1 hour ago, SimonShipperd said:

Well, that seems to be the conclusion everybody is making + what Billet posted themselves. And again, I don't want to be victim blaming but sending your only good prototype that you still need for development is just not a smart business descission.

 

Of course it was not correct for LMG to sell it. But I don't understand why everyone is personally blaming Linus for this. The times of him personally being in contact with companies is long gone. Occam's razer suggest that all of this stems from a large break down of communication between LMG management, the staff and Billet. Why would they willingly sell/auction something if each and every one knew they couldn't? What possibly gain could LMG have for this?

Agreed. I don't think there was any intentional malice in the situation, but it's definitely a symptom of moving way too fast in a company that's too large to be micromanaged anymore.

[kendirect]

46 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

Ad hominem deflection so you can avoid addressing any of the facts raised. Steve's character isn't relevant in any way, it's amazing how few people understand that.

That's not ad hominem.  Him being a good person is directly correlated to the video he's made.  He just wanted to attack Linus, that's why he put this out in the public space and not in private. 

[TimedPing]

For Lord sake, this thread is getting out of hands

 

I don't care who you sided with in this fiasco, JUST TAKE A LITTLE REFRESHING AIR FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE GUYS I'M BEGGING YOU

[zeroality]

2 minutes ago, Tugmaster said:

I can only imagine the thoughts going through Linus head right now. Here are some examples:

 

• I wish I took that $100 million offer.
• i thought Steve was a friend.
• Why are people so upset when it’s a simple miscommunication.
• I made things right by paying Billet Labs.
• People will forgive and move on if I stop wearing sandals 
• I am worth millions why did this happen to me?
• I should just retire as it’s not worth
• How do I get out of this mess?
• I should collaborate with Mr Beast on a give away and it will all go away.

I can only imagine the thoughts going through Linus’ head right now. Here are some examples.

1) Damn I thought I lied well enough with my vague statement that my dumb fans would buy it.
2) Damn I thought me playing the victim would get me some sympathy
3) Damn the new videos are being disliked to hell. 
4) Damn floatplane subscriptions are going down
5) I am the biggest tech channel on yt, why doesn’t everyone obey me?
6) I need to assemble my white knights, there are traitors and interlopers amongst us in our echo chamber. 
7) I need that Mr. Beast collab asap.

[FRESHYLEMON]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

Yeah, and words have meaning. Linus saying that "we have already agreed" does not mean "we have signed a settlement to reimburse Billet Labs."

 

Billet Labs had also already sent an email to LMG that included an estimate of it's value if that's in question.

I don't understand the point of the first part? You know Elon Musk lost a law suit with your logic and subsequently owns Twitter because of said logic right?

 

BL sent the email to LMG right... You're keeping up with the facts which is good. The next part that you're ignoring/unaware of is that LMG did not have any contaact with BL at all until GN's video came out, approximately 30 minutes afterwards. That's the part where he lied, y'know cause he implied that LMG DID respond and already had something in the works with BL. BL refutes that this was not the case, and that nothing was in the works at all until the video came out. 

 

I'm not sure if I can be any more clear. Words have meaning, yes. If you use them properly. 

[jitteryzeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

That's a twisting of events. Saying "we have agreed" does not mean, "we have a formal agreement signed by all parties."

Anytime you want to have a discussion instead of repeated attempts to twist yourself in knots with rules lawyering the hell out of grammar you let me know, sport.

[LumpyCrumpet]

45 minutes ago, kendirect said:

That's not ad hominem.  Him being a good person is directly correlated to the video he's made.  He just wanted to attack Linus, that's why he put this out in the public space and not in private. 

I have no idea whether he's a good person or not because he is a YouTuber I watch and not someone I actually know.

 

I certainly don't think I can make a judgment on that based on a video that's entirely of a piece with others he's done, and that appears to be completely factually correct. I like his integrity policies and general demeanour on YouTube but I couldn't tell you whether he's a good person or not because, to be perfectly blunt, it's utterly fucking irrelevant.

[Monolithic]

2 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

That's a twisting of events. Saying "we have agreed" does not mean, "we have a formal agreement signed by all parties."

Except per Billet no one has agreed on anything....Billet had yet to respond yet.

[RockerBug17]

2 minutes ago, ColonelSupremePizza said:

Oh, I'm not imparting malice on Linus at all and it absolutely is all incompetence and arrogance. I do believe that you're correct in that the CEO is there to help run and organize the company, however the issue is that Linus is acting like a man child and making the CEO's job harder. I intended to imply that it was a more honorary position simply because he can't reprimand or help direct the company like a CEO normally would, and unfortunately Linus desperately needs that.

 

I don't believe we will ever see improvements from Linus though. This lack of responsibility has been a thing he's consistently had for whatever reason. With Linus' apparent deadlines and metrics he created for content, I doubt the CEO will affect that either. It absolutely will be a glorified office manager style job than being the actual CEO of a company or brand.

If Linus had instead published a polished piece of PR damage control would you be more or less satisfied than you currently are?

[Poagie]

5 minutes ago, Vilacom said:

That’s not the issue.

The issue is its an $800 water block in a space where $400 water blocks are considered vanity purchases and extremely overpriced and excellent top of the line versions are sold for about $200, and you’ll need a new one each time you upgrade.  

It’s like a Rolex watch, they are very pretty and there is a market for them among people who are looking for a way to try to impress other people with lots of money, but no one in their right mind would look at a Rolex and say “This is worth considering for anyone purchasing a watch”.  

It’s a very pretty cooler, but it’s never going to be worth someone spending $800 on it for performance, you should spend $80 on a solid air cooler and put the other $720 into a better graphics card, processor, higher end memory, literally anything else that could be a bottleneck.  

That was the point, you don’t need to review the performance of something like this because there isn’t any result that would make spending 10 times a good air cooler on literally just the block for the GPU a good use of money. 

Dude sold tickets that were 10k to his event. There is definitely people in his audience that would buy an 800 dollar water cooler just in the mere fact it looked cool. They have all kinds of content about stupid over priced items and builds.

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, TimedPing said:

For Lord sake, this thread is getting out of hands

 

I don't care who you sided with in this fiasco, JUST TAKE A LITTLE REFRESHING AIR FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE GUYS I'M BEGGING YOU

Or you could just shut down your browser and go take a break....no one is forcing you to be here...

[ILikeHardware]

45 minutes ago, kendirect said:

That's not ad hominem.  Him being a good person is directly correlated to the video he's made.  He just wanted to attack Linus, that's why he put this out in the public space and not in private. 

Steve made a video with publicly available content stating facts only. His character is not coming into question. Attacking his character under these circumstances is the very definition of an ad hominem.

[VascoM]

6 minutes ago, kendirect said:

Steve has literally never been a good person, it's amazing how few people understand that.

So you know Steve from school ?

[UncleFunkle]

9 minutes ago, Vilacom said:

That’s not the issue.

The issue is its an $800 water block in a space where $400 water blocks are considered vanity purchases and extremely overpriced and excellent top of the line versions are sold for about $200, and you’ll need a new one each time you upgrade.  

It’s like a Rolex watch, they are very pretty and there is a market for them among people who are looking for a way to try to impress other people with lots of money, but no one in their right mind would look at a Rolex and say “This is worth considering for anyone purchasing a watch”.  

It’s a very pretty cooler, but it’s never going to be worth someone spending $800 on it for performance, you should spend $80 on a solid air cooler and put the other $720 into a better graphics card, processor, higher end memory, literally anything else that could be a bottleneck.  

That was the point, you don’t need to review the performance of something like this because there isn’t any result that would make spending 10 times a good air cooler on literally just the block for the GPU a good use of money. 

This is my take on the conclusion too. And it's backed up by the numbers that Billet Labs themselves have on the product page. You're paying 2x the price for a marginal performance gain in a space where you're already paying 3x the price of something with no performance benefit. Not to mention that you're actually going to need 2 of the blocks plus be sure that every other metal in the loop is copper.