Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[BlackSmokeDMax]

1 minute ago, Amaninacity said:

Your own source states that his video meets the standard for an ethical obligation to  request comment. If you can’t safely do so, you should at least be explaining why you couldn’t. Steve didn’t bother, and pretended that very valid criticism had no merit.

 

I'd say it has no merit because unlike many other recipients on the end of journalism, LMG has a channel nearly 10 times larger than the source reporting it. They would have no trouble responding to any concerns. It is my opinion that the need to ask everyone is partially to make sure all can have their voice heard. LMG has zero issues in having that ability not available to them.

[ImpliedSilence]

41 minutes ago, dwkekciej said:

Here's what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. I've been watching their videos for years now, and I know that they are as much an entertainment company as they are a business, but I can't imagine the amount of errors/negligence that led to the following:

1. LTT lost the 3090ti that Billet sent their prototype water block with

2. Tested the water block on the wrong GPU (because of 1.)

3. Wrote a video and published it with invalid results based on the wrong GPU

4. Provided their recommendation to their audience to not buy the product based on the results using the wrong GPU

5. Billet posted on LTT's video that they used the incorrect GPU.

6. LTT "liked" the comment by the Billet, but neglected to address their incorrect results/recommendation based on those results.

7. LTT told Billet they would return the block to them

8. (Presumably) lost the waterblock in a way that it was able to be auctioned off at LTX

9. LTT told Billet that they no longer had the block, but found the 3090ti, in the most offensive way possible (..."at least it's not on a shelf")

10. On WAN show, LTT says they didn't want to spend the time/money to fix their testing mistakes.

11. GN points out LTT's mistakes

12. LTT responds to Billet for reimbursement for the water block hours after GN video.

13. LTT sends out response, say they won't mention any of the above other than on the forum they run, misleads audience into thinking that they already made an agreement on reimbursement for the water block, says that they wouldn't recommend the water block even if it performed miraculously. Then mentions that another LTT member wanted to re-test the product correctly but Linus disregarded his employees request. Finally, he signs off by being upset that his audience is angry with him for all of the above.

14. LTT offers to get water block back and send it back to Billet, but they still haven't sent the 3090ti back.

15. With a host of valid concerns about LTT's offer, Billet rejects it

 

LTT has gotten very efficient at making entertaining videos, pumping them out at ridiculous speed, but they are still operating like a tech start-up working from a basement. From a long-time user, I hope they take a gigantic step back, look at what led to all of this mess from a complete top-down approach to everything they do, evaluate what needs to change, and make that change. They also need a serious public (and maybe also private) response to GN, their core audience, and Billet. Anything short of that would be a further misstep by LTT.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. "they are still operating like a tech start-up working from a basement."

[HiTechLowSpec]

23 minutes ago, Lagonas said:

But it is not resolved. Linus said it has been resolved because they agree to pay, while Billet has not sent them an invoice of whatever. They just sent what the block is worth for them.

It's resolved because Billet Labs says it is.

[VisibleXela]

Just now, HiTechLowSpec said:

You have no idea if Linus was privy to the agreed return of the block and the "emails" mentioned in GN video aren't actually "emails". He may very well have just learned about the LTT screwup from the GN video and was trying to make it right with Billet Labs again. He also needs to do damage control at this point, which is stating the obvious.

This is exactly why I'm being very careful to specify "LTT" when I mean LTT, "LMG" when I mean LMG, and "Linus" when I mean Linus.

 

Regardless of what Linus knew, LMG knew, we know that for certain. It's good that Linus tried to fix things, but he also tried to lie by omission and spin things to make his company look good in lieu of taking responsibility as the head of the company that made the mistake.

[Nafis]

Linus made some mistakes, and at this point, I believe the best thing to do was to drop the shield wall of ego and say that we will try not to make mistakes like this in the future and that the Billet Labs issue was due to bad internal management of documentation.

[FullSpeed]

Just now, SimonShipperd said:

Perhaps you should give them the time to you know, actually make a video then?

Based on the main meme lords post on here, he's not even planning on discussing it on the WAN show so I doubt they will make a video on it.

[VascoM]

Hello guys. must say I’m a real supporter of LTT.I enjoy their videos and follow  them as a old tech nerd  That said, as a middle aged guy who works in a multinational healthcare company , credibility is everything. we all push LTT for more content , and LMG has to provide for more than 100 people which is hard and demands incredible work …but in the specific case of the LAB that Linus from the start wants to pose as a benchmark for products evaluation, you need to be careful and only send things outside when completely polished.  The medical labs with whom I work I do based on trust that all of their data is correct…the same must  be for LTT labs, that CANNOT be with the stigmata of “ hey, we’re growing “, that’s not science . Also, LMG has the power to destroy a startup , so in the case of the errors detected by gamers nexus , with those mouse and cooling solutions videos, you may have singlehanded destroyed them.Finaly , it was as you say in Canada and USA, a d..k move to attack gamers nexus, hardware unboxed in a video comparing their analytics implying that they were subpar compared to yours..it was bound for them to reply and show your glass ceilings. maybe get a good PR people ? As you grow to a major company..the “trust me bro “ umbrella becomes too small,

[McGherkin]

I think the whole ‘did this happen’ ‘did that happen’ argument needs putting to bed. Nobody has denied the Billet thing happened, and whilst he didn’t acknowledge it in detail Linus has said that the quality of content has not been good enough recently.

 

What I think matters most now is where this goes from here. I think it’s almost certain that Linus has turned what was a relatively damaging but recoverable situation and blown it up a hundredfold. Had Linus put a video out saying ‘yeah, we made a mistake with the Billet thing, we’re trying to make it right, we hear you about the mistakes, we’re trying to improve that too as we’re big into our accuracy and we’re working with Steve to see what he thinks we can do better’, this would be over now. As it is, the GN video is nigh on two and a half million views and other than one post on a forum there is absolutely no response or apology from LMG.

 

There are now three courses of action.

1. Keep hiding and not acknowledging it. Not a smart idea, this is snowballing as a direct consequence of this strategy.

 

2. Post an apology on the main channel, state clearly what will change going forward. This is the best outcome but goes against what Linus has said so far and will be a tough one to swallow. I call this the ‘Terren does his job’ option.

 

3. Try to ignore it and end up in a dumpster fire of a WAN show where the team get absolutely torn apart by the chat/MMs and Linus fumbles through with a bunch of apologies, but also doubling down on some of the hot takes we’ve seen already. This could well cause a lot more serious irreparable damage to LMG’s reputation. Whether it’s this week, or WAN is cancelled and it happens next week instead, it will happen.

 

I think we’re going to see either 2 or 3. I’d hope 2.

 

Anyway, we all need a laugh. Excuse my crappy phone editing.

[Leksi T]

5 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

This is why he NEEDS to talk about this at least for a little bit on WAN. Luke needs to be there to pull the foot out of his mouth

The problem is, that Luke rarely can pull Linus' foot out fast enough.  GN has already shown that they will use everything Linus says, context be damned.  So while I realize that the possibility of a dedicated video is slim, Linus can't just go saying things however he wants in this situation without likely doing more damage.  I even feel sad typing this, as Linus' openness and candor in just saying things as he sees it is valuable to me. But IMO, this is just too big now.

[PandaSquawk]

4 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Lots of people are looking for technicalities to justify the situation, but either way, its still bad optics.

 

LMG had a miscommunication, they did not knowingly sell an item that was suppoed to be sent back to the team at billet.

 

Mistakes happen, sure.

 

This does not excuse the fact that their response to billet at the end was disrespectful.

Notice that Linus did not say that the communication mishap was between LMG and Billet Labs. What he said is likely the truth, but some people don't care and just want a pound of flesh. I'm not a Linus sycophant, but I do hate the mob mentally and vitriol on display. It is the worst part of modern internet culture.

[Wintyr]

2 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Perhaps you should give them the time to you know, actually make a video then?

yup Gamers nexus has ad weeks to pile on the evidence data to attack LMG has had 24 hours

[SimonShipperd]

Just now, FullSpeed said:

Based on the main meme lords post on here, he's not even planning on discussing it on the WAN show so I doubt they will make a video on it.

More than likely that was an emotional response. I doubt they aren’t either gonna make a video or address it on the WAN show. They know the space to good for that.

[skunk_]

omg its been a day and 162 fucking pages?

 

ngl, this isnt really news for me, this thread is pretty bad imo

 

linus should apologize and explain himself on the next WAN show

[UnwindingThree8]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:16 PM, Cavalry Canuck said:

That’s not the vibe I get. Listen to him talk about the pull Linus has with YouTube, be it the better reps, video editing, etc. To me he sounds very envious. 

 

I wish he weren’t. I wish he were the way you’re suggesting. But I don’t see it. If anything, I understand why. GN deserves a hell of a lot more clout than it currently has.

He's just stating fact, how the situation is. He isn't envious. That's what you want to see because you support lmg. This isn't about GN or Steve. Nor does he want it to be. This is about lmg and their fuck ups. 

[UncleFunkle]

7 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Also I hate the fact that so many people have signed up to the forum to post their one sided reddit takes.

 

LTT is Satan reincarnate amirite fellow redditors?

And don't forget that LTT and Linus are one and the same. There's absolutely no way there could be mistakes due to poor communication because it's all one person

[Drazil100]

2 minutes ago, Leksi T said:

The problem is, that Luke rarely can pull Linus' foot out fast enough.  GN has already shown that they will use everything Linus says, context be damned.  So while I realize that the possibility of a dedicated video is slim, Linus can't just go saying things however he wants in this situation without likely doing more damage.  I even feel sad typing this, as Linus' openness and candor in just saying things as he sees it is valuable to me. But IMO, this is just too big now.

Yeah, but he CAN set Linus on the right path. He is REALLY good at spotting Linus putting his foot in his mouth and can give him the correct perspective by the end of the segment. Yeah Linus will get attacked more, but he is getting attacked anyway. May as well get everything out in the open.

[PandaSquawk]

7 minutes ago, zeroality said:

Yes I’m sure you would prefer the lie in Linus’ post not getting coverage as you’ve established you’re perfectly fine with getting gaslit and being lied to and have your goodwill exploited.

I have found no "lies" in Linus' statement. Quit throwing around hateful words like they don't mean anything.

[VisibleXela]

2 minutes ago, FullSpeed said:

Based on the main meme lords post on here, he's not even planning on discussing it on the WAN show so I doubt they will make a video on it.

Yeah, I know he said that but I find it hard to believe he'll hold to that. If he does, this week's WAN show will be absolutely a sight to behold, that's for sure.

[Amaninacity]

2 minutes ago, BlackSmokeDMax said:

 

I'd say it has no merit because unlike many other recipients on the end of journalism, LMG has a channel nearly 10 times larger than the source reporting it. They would have no trouble responding to any concerns. It is my opinion that the need to ask everyone is partially to make sure all can have their voice heard. LMG has zero issues in having that ability not available to them.

Your interpretation is wrong. Stories request comments from Presidents and governments and larger news organizations all the time. It’s because a false or unfair story can do damage that no amount of replies will ever fix. It’s about fair, objective reporting. Not about whether a subject has a voice.

[SoulSunder]

11 minutes ago, Drazil100 said:

Billet said it was possible it could work. That's not malice, it's negligence. Malice implies that he intended to do them dirty which he had no motive for.

I say malicious because he implied it was a bad product due to the pricing of it. I’m not sure if he had any idea how much it was before he checked it out but if he did, it was most definitely malicious based on his ending thoughts on the product.

 

However I will concede that using malicious here is very much my speculation and negligence is a much better word to describe the situation based on the facts we have currently.

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Some people have no takes except reddit hot-takes, unfortunately. At least most of the longer-time posters here have displayed valid and constructive criticism in the situation, it's clear who the reddit brigade is.

I remember seeing how fast some wwdc/Google i/o threads would fill up (remember when hot was like 20 posts in 1 hour). By the time I post this, it would have been like 160 pages long. I don't think I have seen a thread that long apart from a few OT threads. 

 

Anyways, if any of you redditors do stay behind, it is a quite nice place to be. Also you will probably find LTTs strongest critics on the forum itself lmao.

[JoshuaScholar]

"1. LTT lost the 3090ti that Billet sent their prototype water block with"

 

Jesus!  Linus really does lose other people's money.

 

It's as if he dropped a 128 core processor!

 

Oops!

[aka473]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I have found no "lies" in Linus' statement. Quit throwing around hateful words like they don't mean anything.

The Lie in Linus' statement revolves around the fact that he makes it seem like Billet Labs and LTT have already agreed on compensation when by Billet Labs' account that wasn't true, and still isn't true as of me making this post.

[digitalscream]

19 hours ago, LinusTech said:

If you're new to the channel, I understand why you might not know this, but we are extremely committed to improving our accuracy to the point where we are building out a $10M+ facility jam-packed full of equipment and engineering know-how. It's taking time, and this kind of aggressive expansion has been a learning curve for us, but to frame our recent actions as "sacrificing accuracy" is misleading at best. 

We need to make a lot of process changes to get to the point where everything is water-tight. That's a big part of why we added our new CEO Terren to our leadership team, but once again... things take time. He's been full time on the job for less than a single quarter and he's getting up to speed on all the things we are doing right... and yes... all the things we are doing wrong.

 

Trust me, we know. But we are making major investments in improving all of this and we won't stop.

Here's the thing...you can spend millions on Labs that'll hopefully result in more accuracy (and, probably, volume) months/years down the line, but when your presenters/scripts have to increasingly be corrected at least two or three times every video by editors because you're one-shotting everything and can't afford to go back and re-shoot...we, as viewers, have to ask - are you really spending money in the right places here?

 

Every time you've talked about Labs, the focus has been on volume - more testing, of more products, with more driver retesting etc because yes, that kind of facility and capability would be a great USP amongst tech creators. However, when that's combined with an audio track that's wrong so often (and getting noticeably worse with every video), the message of "quality and accuracy" just isn't coming through, just "throughput above all else".

 

It doesn't matter to the viewers who click videos to find out what Linus is going to drop this week, or how many unnecessary holes are going in that wall, but for those of us who actually care about the detail we have to be watching like hawks for corrections that flash up on the screen too quickly to notice if we're even momentarily distracted, otherwise we have to scrub back to make sure we didn't miss some vital factual error in what we heard. That's not a satisfying viewer experience, and more than once recently it's had me questioning the wisdom of a Floatplane subscription. Obviously one subscription is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but...how long before more people start questioning it?

 

That was my biggest takeaway from the GN video. Everything else is explainable by poor organisational communication and a company missing the point of a product (happens often), and not enough of a feedback loop to correct the quality issues, so everything's getting noticeably worse. Not exactly a shining beacon of competence, but not malicious and not particularly unusual in a company that's not experienced at being the size it's grown to.

 

If you do read this, then please take it in the spirit in which it's intended - just viewer feedback, in the hopes that the primary product gets better and you guys get back to where you were - trusted experts making engaging content.

 

If not, then I'll just sit back and enjoy the flames heading in my direction...

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Just now, Amaninacity said:

Your interpretation is wrong. Stories request comments from Presidents and governments and larger news organizations all the time. It’s because a false or unfair story can do damage that no amount of replies will ever fix. It’s about fair, objective reporting. Not about whether a subject has a voice.

 

Eh, fair enough.

 

Though it also allows damage control to start early. And in some cases as you've mentioned, that is warranted. In this case I think any damage control would have been bad for this community.