AMD launches RX 7900 GRE with Navi 31 on Navi 32 package for $649 MSRP - China Exclusive (at least for now)

[IkeaGnome]

1 hour ago, WallacEngineering said:

As@IkeaGnome said, both AMD and Nvidia are screwing up this gen, its just that Nvidia is definitely worse. At least AMDs cards are reasonably priced so really all you have to worry about is deciphering the stupid names lol

This is a 7800xt class card with a 7900 name on it. Remember how angry people got with the 4080 (4070 ti)?

The name is also just as misleading. You now have $400 in price difference between cards with the same numbering scheme. How is that better than Nvidia? 
 

Disclaimer, I’m not pro one brand or another. I’m pro competition. Right now both are competing at being confusing to the average consumer. People on here are not the average consumer. A parent who saves up to splurge on their kids computer is not going to know the difference between a 4060 ti 8gb and 4060 ti 16gb any more than the difference between a 7900 gre and a 7900 xtx besides price differences. At least Nvidia’s naming there hints at the difference. 
 

1 hour ago, WallacEngineering said:

Its as Steve from GN said in the review: "The RTX 4060 is literally a waste of sand". Or at least they are until they fall to acceptable price points which most of the community has agreed upon:

 

34 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

For anyone who doesn't know, there was recently a flash sale on the AsRock Phantom Gaming RX 7900-XTX for $799.99. It was such a good deal at that point over the RTX 4080 that it went out of stock overnight and the sale ended early. That is a perfect example of how AMD cards sell.

In other words, the same thing as GN said about the 4060. This one is just backed with price drops and sales. 

 

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

assume its because AMD has always intended for the 7800xt to be a full fat navi 32 and already have all their marketing and technical material prepped for that. 

Why does the amount of BUS width and die size matter? You could have a full size die with a massive bus width, but have horrible performance. Would we say “at least it’s a full size die this time?”

[starsmine]

23 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

This is a 7800xt class card with a 7900 name on it. Remember how angry people got with the 4080 (4070 ti)?

The name is also just as misleading. You now have $400 in price difference between cards with the same numbering scheme. How is that better than Nvidia? 
 

Disclaimer, I’m not pro one brand or another. I’m pro competition. Right now both are competing at being confusing to the average consumer. People on here are not the average consumer. A parent who saves up to splurge on their kids computer is not going to know the difference between a 4060 ti 8gb and 4060 ti 16gb any more than the difference between a 7900 gre and a 7900 xtx besides price differences. At least Nvidia’s naming there hints at the difference. 
 

 

In other words, the same thing as GN said about the 4060. This one is just backed with price drops and sales. 

What?

people got mad at the 4070ti/4080 12gb because it was a different die and because people (wrongly I'm my opinion) assume changing the ram amount does not imply a change in performance so they thought having it called a 4080 was misleading as if 12gb and 16gb were not PART of the name of the card rather then just a spec sheet change. The difference here is that they ARE the same die. 

I am so lost as to why you are claiming people will be confused on the 7900 GRE, 7900xt, 7900xtx.

Are people confused by 4060/4060ti? are people confused by 4070/4070ti? Are people confused by 3080/3080ti?
Are people confused by RX 6800 and RX 6800XT?

This is far more straight forward then the 4080 12GB/4080 16GB thing. 

23 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Why does the amount of BUS width and die size matter? You could have a full size die with a massive bus width, but have horrible performance. Would we say “at least it’s a full size die this time?”

I never brought up bus width or die size. Just that the 7800xt uses the entire navi 32 die. its a different chip.

Everything in the 7900 family is based off the SAME chip. the navi 31.

 

I am utterly lost as to what you are arguing here. I said all the marketing material and technical documentation for the 7800xt already exists for AMD, that they made a new SKU with a navi 31 that performs between the already defined 7800xt and already launched 7900xt does not mean that new sku is now a 7800xt... that is just a weird argument. Saying its 7800xt class when its literally faster then the 7800xt is a weird take. 

It would have been more clear IMO to have called it just the 7900, no suffix. but for a Chinese card being called GRE its fine. 

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

What does this even mean? Why would they feel uncomfortable calling it a 7800XT? Uncomfortable in the sense that it won't look as good on a spec list for system integrators?

No. Uncomfortable in the sense that the 7800 series is wholly distinct from the Navi 31 based 7900 series.

 

We don't know how much supply there is of the 7900 GRE to go around but if there is a limited supply then there wouldn't be any point in calling it a 7800XT.

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

7900 GRE seems like a silly name. Either call it the "7800 XT" or "7900".

It was expected to be called the RX 7900 but the name change is probably from the pivot towards mainly being targeted for a launch in China.

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

AMD hasn't released any 7800 class cards yet so I can't say which it should fit in to, but with the reduced memory bus and cut down GPU I can see why people may not think it is a "7900" class card (just like how everybody complained for the same reasons about the 4070Ti originally being called a 4080).

This reduces costs for AMD allowing AMD to make the price cheaper and is a limitation of Navi 32's packaging.

 

Realistically this should have been called an RX 7900 because that is ultimately what it is.

 

There are only 2 further desktop RDNA3 GPUs planned/expected. (Fully enabled N32) N32 XT and N32 XL.

 

N32 XT will be called either the 7800 or 7800 XT and N32 XL will either be called 7700 or 7700 XT.

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Since this appears to, so far, only be a system integrator option I wonder if the system integrators just wanted a cheaper option to fill that upper-mid range but still wanted to keep "RX 7900" on the box because higher number better.

This card is meant to replace the 6900XT cards that have been selling for roughly the same price.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

 

Where? Looks like it's only available as an option when ordered in a prebuilt system, but it's also showing that it's not available (Out of Stock) if you try to select it. I can't see any cards being sold individually.

 

Looking at the system configurator options it seems it is priced the same as or slightly higher than the RTX4070 options. If the performance figures @WallacEngineering posted are accurate then it might be a decent option at that pricepoint.

https://www.ple.com.au/Products/661653/ple-lunar-custom-built-gaming-pc

 

[AlTech]

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

This is a 7800xt class card with a 7900 name on it. Remember how angry people got with the 4080 (4070 ti)?

Not anymore. Also part of the hatred with 4080 12GB was the confusing name with the 4080 16GB being a totally different GPU with the same name.

 

It was never in the cards to be called a 7800XT. It could maybe have been called a 7800 XTX though that would have been a more silly name than 7900 GRE.

 

x800 class at least for now is becoming fully enabled xY2 where x is the ISA/Architecture codename and Y is the generation within the ISA.

 

The xY1 die seems to be reserved for the x900 series now.

 

And the xY3 die is for the x500 (if AMD decides to launch one in the future) and the x600 series.

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

The name is also just as misleading. You now have $400 in price difference between cards with the same numbering scheme. How is that better than Nvidia?

AMD has different series within a generation of cards and regularly has multiple SKUs within them.

Non XT (or in this case GRE) is cut down.

 

XT is usually fully enabled but can sometimes be cut down. And XTX is fully enabled.

 

For revisions or refreshes AMD uses a xx50 naming scheme to note the refresh compared to the xx00 scheme for launch GPUs. E.g. 6600 XT (launch

model) and 6650XT (refresh).

 

Where both an XT and a non XT exists, the non XT is a cut down XT.

E.g. 6600 was a cut down 6600XT. 6700 was a cut down 6700XT. 6800 was a cut down 6800XT.

 

AMD this generation are launching products to reflect where they exist in the product stack in terms of how far ahead of their predecessors they are.

 

The 7600 is called a 7600 to reflect the nature of its performance and its goal to replace the 6600 and 6600XT GPUs.

 

The 7900 GRE is a replacement for the discounted $650 6900XT and is intended to provide better performance, better perf/dollar, and support for newer features.

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Disclaimer, I’m not pro one brand or another. I’m pro competition. Right now both are competing at being confusing to the average consumer. People on here are not the average consumer. A parent who saves up to splurge on their kids computer is not going to know the difference between a 4060 ti 8gb and 4060 ti 16gb any more than the difference between a 7900 gre and a 7900 xtx besides price differences. At least Nvidia’s naming there hints at the difference.

Anybody who has bought from AMD in the past is aware of the distinction between non XT and XT cards. The XTX is a bit different but it doesn't confuse buyers in any meaningful quantity.

 

The 7900XTX outsells the 7900XT by a large amount owing to its better performance and being a better value than the 7900XT for most of the 7900XT's time on the market.

 

The 7900 GRE is a value Navi 31 GPU.

People who want a cut down top die at a cheap price have it now.

 

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

In other words, the same thing as GN said about the 4060. This one is just backed with price drops and sales.

AMD knows the 7900 GRE will sell well

. They don't need to discount the 7900 GRE. The only AMD cards that need discounting right now are the 7900XT to $750 and the 7900XTX to $900.

 

20 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Why does the amount of BUS width and die size matter? You could have a full size die with a massive bus width, but have horrible performance. Would we say “at least it’s a full size die this time?”

It's been said above by others who have replied to you but essentially 7900 series is N31.

 

7800 series is fully enabled N32 and 7700 series will be cut down N32.

 

N32 this generation has a substantially higher CU count than N22 and is designed to replace the 6800 and the 6700XT.

[AlTech]

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

 

Devils advocate here. Why are we more okay with this than we are with Nvidia giving “wrong names” to graphics cards?

Because this isn't a bad name for the GPU.

 

N31 dies being used exclusively in the 7900 series makes sense and is fine.

 

AMD is segmenting the series as needed to offer different tiers of performance and value to different customers who want N31.

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

Ya but who cares what AMD calls it. We know better, just like how Im aware that my 7900-XTX isn't an XTX. AMD just added the extra "X" to sound cool. Its really just the 7900-XT, and then the 7900-XT is actually the 7800-XT. So I guess then the GRE would actually be the 7800 Non-XT.

Well no, the 7900XT should have been called the RX 7900. It's not a 7800XT class product.

 

Well no, because the 7900 GRE would be either A) not launched at all if the 7900XT was called a 7900 or the 7900 GRE would be called a 7800XT in the worst case scenario.

1 hour ago, WallacEngineering said:

Its just like how we are well aware that the RTX 4060s are the biggest SCAM in Nvidia's history because we know they are charging even more than typical 60-class pricing for 50-class GPU dies and BUS widths and thats why literally not a single enthusiast I have talked to is even remotely interested in them. Its as Steve from GN said in the review: "The RTX 4060 is literally a waste of sand". Or at least they are until they fall to acceptable price points which most of the community has agreed upon:

 

RTX 4060 Base: $250

RTX 4060-Ti 8GB: $300

RTX 4060-Ti 16GB: $340

 

These prices are as such because the stupidly narrow BUS width means these cards scale negatively at higher resolutions, meaning they should ONLY be recommended for gamers targeting 1920x1080p or UltraWide 2560x1080p resolutions with high frame rates and maybe some Ray-Tracing gameplay. Otherwise, they are completely useless. 1440p and higher gamers should be looking at the RTX 4070 and up.

Nvidia may be scamming customers but AMD isn't.

1 hour ago, WallacEngineering said:

 As@IkeaGnome said, both AMD and Nvidia are screwing up this gen, its just that Nvidia is definitely worse. At least AMDs cards are reasonably priced so really all you have to worry about is deciphering the stupid names lol

 

And yes the GRE will come down in price. Literally every single release this generation from both companies has had a starting MSRP that is too high and that drops in price over time and while this particular MSRP isn't terrible, it will still drop at least a little bit after the first 10-12 weeks on the USA market. And then that 7800 you mentioned will also fall a bit from its $550 launch price, and so on. What makes you think anything changes at this point from how the 7900-XTX, 7900-XT, and 7600 launched? Its just gonna be the same, because all GPUs are overpriced right now and GPU sales are at an all-time low across the board.

AMD GPUs aren't significantly overpriced, perhaps they are slightly overpriced but its nothing a minor price adjustment can't fix.

 

The 7900XTX should be $899

The 7900XT should be $699 to $749

The GRE should be $599

The 7800 should launch at $499

The 7700 should launch at $399

 

And a 7600 16GB, if it were to ever come out, should be between $299 and $329.

 

These are just my opinions, not what's gonna happen.

 

7800 is planned to be $550 and 7700 is planned to be $450.

[IkeaGnome]

30 minutes ago, starsmine said:

I am so lost as to why you are claiming people will be confused on the 7900 GRE, 7900xt, 7900xtx.

 

5 minutes ago, AlTech said:

Anybody who has bought from AMD in the past is aware of the distinction between non XT and XT cards. The XTX is a bit different but it doesn't confuse buyers in any meaningful quantity.

And you also have to keep in mind that computer/parts like this sell because people don't know better/know fully what part names mean.

https://www.amazon.com/STGAubron-Desktop-Computer-GeForce-Keyboard/dp/B0BK54BHL7/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7%2Bgaming%2Bcomputer&qid=1690904226&sprefix=i7%2Bgaming%2Bcomput%2Caps%2C221&sr=8-10&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18630bbb-fcbb-42f8-9767-857e17e03685&th=1

That *should be* a i7 3770..

https://www.amazon.com/STGAubron-Desktop-i7-8700-Keybaord-Bluetooth/dp/B0BNC1PT36/ref=sr_1_18?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7+gaming+computer&qid=1690904248&sprefix=i7+gaming+comput%2Caps%2C221&sr=8-18&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac578592-0362-4e0a-958c-0f2dd61d30d4

https://www.amazon.com/Continuum-GeForce-Windows-Desktop-Computer/dp/B0887M9HL3/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7+gaming+computer&qid=1690904328&refinements=p_36%3A2421883011&rnid=2421879011&s=pc&sprefix=i7+gaming+comput%2Caps%2C221&sr=1-8&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac578592-0362-4e0a-958c-0f2dd61d30d4

 

Remember, just because it makes sense to any of the three of us, doesn't mean the average person will understand the difference. Average person will see 7900 and think they're all very similar in performance. Average person doesn't watch tech news, read this thread, watch benchmarks. Average person is higher number=better.

36 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Are people confused by 4060/4060ti? are people confused by 4070/4070ti? Are people confused by 3080/3080ti?
Are people confused by RX 6800 and RX 6800XT?

Nope, but once you add in the xx50 people get confused, or you add in the Super people get confused. There have been many threads on here asking the difference, more recently between xx50 and xx00 cards. More than 2 names/products with similar names and people will get confused.

 

11 minutes ago, AlTech said:

XT is usually fully enabled but can sometimes be cut down. And XTX is fully enabled.

Where was the 6900/6950 xtx?

 

38 minutes ago, starsmine said:

This is far more straight forward then the 4080 12GB/4080 16GB thing. 

If you dig far enough into it, yes. If you go just off confusing ass names meant to confuse the AVERAGE consumer, no it's the same. 

 

39 minutes ago, starsmine said:

It would have been more clear IMO to have called it just the 7900, no suffix. but for a Chinese card being called GRE its fine. 

It's not going to be just a Chinese card only. It's already not. Their marketing material has USD listed for the price. It will be available here given enough stock of it and time to get it over here. Yes, it's China first. No, it's not going to be China only.

 

14 minutes ago, AlTech said:

The 7900 GRE is a replacement for the discounted $650 6900XT and is intended to provide better performance, better perf/dollar, and support for newer features.

Common sense in product naming says the 7900xt would be the replacement for the 6900xt...

[AlTech]

39 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

 

And you also have to keep in mind that computer/parts like this sell because people don't know better/know fully what part names mean.

https://www.amazon.com/STGAubron-Desktop-Computer-GeForce-Keyboard/dp/B0BK54BHL7/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7%2Bgaming%2Bcomputer&qid=1690904226&sprefix=i7%2Bgaming%2Bcomput%2Caps%2C221&sr=8-10&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18630bbb-fcbb-42f8-9767-857e17e03685&th=1

That *should be* a i7 3770..

https://www.amazon.com/STGAubron-Desktop-i7-8700-Keybaord-Bluetooth/dp/B0BNC1PT36/ref=sr_1_18?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7+gaming+computer&qid=1690904248&sprefix=i7+gaming+comput%2Caps%2C221&sr=8-18&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac578592-0362-4e0a-958c-0f2dd61d30d4

https://www.amazon.com/Continuum-GeForce-Windows-Desktop-Computer/dp/B0887M9HL3/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1RO2CKMHNEW9W&keywords=i7+gaming+computer&qid=1690904328&refinements=p_36%3A2421883011&rnid=2421879011&s=pc&sprefix=i7+gaming+comput%2Caps%2C221&sr=1-8&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac578592-0362-4e0a-958c-0f2dd61d30d4

 

Remember, just because it makes sense to any of the three of us, doesn't mean the average person will understand the difference. Average person will see 7900 and think they're all very similar in performance. Average person doesn't watch tech news, read this thread, watch benchmarks. Average person is higher number=better.

Nope, but once you add in the xx50 people get confused, or you add in the Super people get confused. There have been many threads on here asking the difference, more recently between xx50 and xx00 cards. More than 2 names/products with similar names and people will get confused.

 

Where was the 6900/6950 xtx?

They didn't introduce it at that time.

 

6900XT/6950XT was sufficient.

39 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If you dig far enough into it, yes. If you go just off confusing ass names meant to confuse the AVERAGE consumer, no it's the same. 

What do you want AMD to do?

 

Given that there are expected to be 6 GPUs in AMD's desktop RDNA lineup, what would you call them?

 

7900XTX -> 7900

7900XT -> 7800

7900 GRE -> 7700

7800 -> 7600

7700 -> 7500

7600 8GB -> 7400 8GB

 

But then what if AMD had a complete lineup? It would be an even bigger mess.

 

7900XTX -> 7900

7900XT -> 7800

7900 GRE -> 7700

7800XT -> 7600

7800 -> 7500

7700XT -> 7400

7700 -> 7300

7600 16GB -> 7200 16GB

7600 8GB -> 7200 8GB

7500XT -> 7100

7500 -> 7000

 

This is even more confusing. Notwithstanding the XT card being called XTX and the non XT card being the XT card and the lower end XLE card being called "GRE", AMD's RDNA3 lineup isn't confusing.

39 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

It's not going to be just a Chinese card only. It's already not. Their marketing material has USD listed for the price. It will be available here given enough stock of it and time to get it over here. Yes, it's China first. No, it's not going to be China only.

 

Common sense in product naming says the 7900xt would be the replacement for the 6900xt...

Well it's not.

 

The 7900XT acts as the 6950XT replacement.

 

7900 GRE acts as the 6900XT replacement. Those 2 cards are at different price points with different people buying them.

[DildorTheDecent]

Western Bros, why don't we get the quirky GPUs?

[WallacEngineering]

4 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

This is a 7800xt class card with a 7900 name on it. Remember how angry people got with the 4080 (4070 ti)?

The name is also just as misleading. You now have $400 in price difference between cards with the same numbering scheme. How is that better than Nvidia? 

 

Ur right as far as misleading people goes, AMD is no better, BUT at least with AMD you get what you pay for. With Nvidia - you can pay $300-$500 for an RTX 4060 variant, but its NOT an RTX 4060.

 

If you know anything whatsoever about GPUs then you would know that Die Sizes and BUS widths are two of the most important metrics of a given Graphics Card's performance. Look up benchmarks between the RTX 4060s and RTX 3060s. At 1080p the RTX 4060s are only about 10% faster because they used 50-class dies. 60-class dies are larger and would have had more cuda cores because you can fit more core into a larger die.

 

BUS width becomes important at higher resolutions. Many people buy 60-class Nvidia cards to be entry level 1440p cards AS WELL AS 1080p cards. But guess what? The RTX 3060s match and even sometimes EXCEED the performance of the RTX 4060s at 1440p because the BUS width restricts the bandwidth - and therefore how much data can come through the PC from the card. Then at 4K, the RTX 4060s actually LOOSE by a decent amount to the older RTX 3060s, so at any resolutions other than 1080p there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to buy an RTX 4060 - and that goes for ALL of its variants. Im sorry but DLSS-3 alone does NOT justify purchasing a new GPU.

 

Now, compare those RTX 4060 die sizes and BUS widths to RTX 3000 series cards and you will realize something very quickly. In reality - The RTX 4060s are quite LITERALLY in every sense - RTX 4050s with the 5 taken off and a 6 put in their place. Thats literally the FACT of the matter, and yet Nvidia wants you to pay $500 for an RTX 4050-Ti 16GB. Thanks, but no thanks lol

 

The AMD naming scheme is confusing and stupid, I 100% agree with you on that. But at least they aren't literally SCAMMING people out of their money the way Nvidia is. Even if the 7900 GRE had been called a 7800 Non-XT it still would have been $649.99 launch MSRP, it still would have dropped down in price eventually to $599.99, and it still would have been considered a decent value VS the RTX 4070 Non-Ti. So with AMD - the name is just the name - its stupid but we dont care that much. With Nvidia - They are literally scamming you out of your money. Theres a very big difference between just being stupid and intentionally charging too much for a fake product.

[WallacEngineering]

3 hours ago, AlTech said:

7900XTX -> 7900

7900XT -> 7800

7900 GRE -> 7700

7800 -> 7600

7700 -> 7500

7600 8GB -> 7400 8GB

 

But then what if AMD had a complete lineup? It would be an even bigger mess.

 

7900XTX -> 7900

7900XT -> 7800

7900 GRE -> 7700

7800XT -> 7600

7800 -> 7500

7700XT -> 7400

7700 -> 7300

7600 16GB -> 7200 16GB

7600 8GB -> 7200 8GB

7500XT -> 7100

7500 -> 7000

 

Nah its not just the extra letters that are confusing, its the fact that some line up, others dont. Ill use last gen as an example so you can see the TRUE successor to each card and then the third name is what they SHOULD be called.

 

Last Gen - Successor - Better Name

 

6900-XT - 7900-XTX - 7900-XT

6800-XT - 7900-XT - 7800-XT

6800 - 7900-GRE - 7800

... And then all of a sudden...

6600 - 7600 - 7600.

 

Ya, so the RX 7600 is the ONLY AMD name so far this gen that actually makes any sense. I guess calling a flagship an "XTX" is fine but the card below it still should have been the 7800-XT by name and not the 7900-XT.

[starsmine]

My dude, the rtx 4060 is an rtx 4060. If you know anything whatsoever about GPUs then you would know that.

 

The die code and bus width have never been that STRONGLY correlated with the consumer name, nor should it be. The performance metrics is what matters to the consumer, not how you got there. It does not matter to them how you got the memory bandwidth fast enough to not significantly bottleneck the gpu. Just that it is fast enough to not significantly not bottleneck the gpu.

[starsmine]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

Nah its not just the extra letters that are confusing, its the fact that some line up, others dont. Ill use last gen as an example so you can see the TRUE successor to each card and then the third name is what they SHOULD be called.

 

Last Gen - Successor - Better Name

 

6900-XT - 7900-XTX - 7900-XT

6800-XT - 7900-XT - 7800-XT

6800 - 7900-GRE - 7800

... And then all of a sudden...

6600 - 7600 - 7600.

 

Ya, so the RX 7600 is the ONLY AMD name so far this gen that actually makes any sense. I guess calling a flagship an "XTX" is fine but the card below it still should have been the 7800-XT by name and not the 7900-XT.

After this man just complained about the die name not matching consumer name he goes and argues the Navi 31 gre should be the 7800.

[IkeaGnome]

7 minutes ago, starsmine said:

The performance metrics is what matters to the consumer, not how you got there

And I'll give it to @WallacEngineering here. If it does effect performance at 1440p then it does matter to consumers. If at 1080p a 3060 is roughly 10%(I don't know the numbers off the top of my head) better than a 2060, and a 4060 is 10% better than a 3060, then generation over generation that matches.

If the 60 series is generationally a 10 or 15% bump at 1440p, and the 4060 does worse than the 3060 at 1440p then it doesn't completely fit the xx60 slot. 

[WallacEngineering]

22 minutes ago, starsmine said:

After this man just complained about the die name not matching consumer name he goes and argues the Navi 31 gre should be the 7800.

 

Do you not understand that I said yes its stupid but it doesn't matter THAT MUCH. That means yes, I acknowledge the fact the name should be different, but I also accept that it may not be the biggest deal in the world so long as the price is okay, which so far it is.

 

24 minutes ago, starsmine said:

My dude, the rtx 4060 is an rtx 4060. If you knew anything about gpus whatsoever you would know that.

 

The die code and bus width have never been that STRONGLY correlated with the consumer name, nor should it be. The performance metrics is what matters to the consumer, not how you got there. It does not matter to them how you got the memory bandwidth fast enough to not significantly bottleneck the gpu. Just that it is fast enough to not significantly not bottleneck the gpu.

 

Ok, Die size and BUS width literally determine what GPU you are buying. Yes I know that whatever name Nvidia sticks on the card doesn't matter - but Nvidia is doing MORE than sticking the name on it - they are also charging more because they stuck that name on it.

 

Again - the Die size - and therefore the number of Cuda Cores inside, combined with BUS width - along with many other factors - determine the PERFORMANCE of a given GPU.

 

Therefore, Nvidia is charging 60-class money for 50-class performance, how many times must I explain this to you in different threads, get it through your head already lol .

 

Let me make this as simple as I can for you. Say an RTX 3060 is $300 and an RTX 3050 is $200.

 

Now, would you pay $300 for an RTX 3050? I didn't think so, so you won't buy an RTX 4060 either because its the EXACT SAME THING.

 

The RTX 4060 is LITERALLY the successor to the RTX 3050, NOT the 3060. This is a proven FACT and not just my own opinion.

 

RTX 4060 pricing that makes sense

RTX 4060: $250

RTX 4060-Ti: $300

RTX 4060-Ti 16GB: $340

 

Until its hits those prices, DO NOT BUY ONE, its that simple.

 

Make sense now? Ok then, moving on... Lol

[WallacEngineering]

4 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

And I'll give it to @WallacEngineering here. If it does effect performance at 1440p then it does matter to consumers. If at 1080p a 3060 is roughly 10%(I don't know the numbers off the top of my head) better than a 2060, and a 4060 is 10% better than a 3060, then generation over generation that matches.

If the 60 series is generationally a 10 or 15% bump at 1440p, and the 4060 does worse than the 3060 at 1440p then it doesn't completely fit the xx60 slot. 

 

Ya it does scale negatively at 1440p, look up benchmarks. It literally starts falling behind last gen as resolution increases because the BUS width is choking it out. The RTX 4060s literally bottleneck themselves, its already been proven at this point countless times over.

[IkeaGnome]

30 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Ok, Die size and BUS width literally determine what GPU you are buying. Yes I know that whatever name Nvidia sticks on the card doesn't matter - but Nvidia is doing MORE than sticking the name on it - they are also charging more because they stuck that name on it.

Bus size isn't the end all be all of performance though. Yes, it's part of the reason for 4060's lack luster 1440p performance, but it also doesn't have to be with a stronger chip. 

 

At the end of the day most of the population will go off numbers (4070 is better than 4060 and 6900xt is better than 6800xt because bigger numbers). Some will review benchmarks to see performance differences. Of that small number almost none will look at bus size or worry about bus size or how much of a die a gpu uses or how cut down it is/isn't. 

30 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Therefore, Nvidia is charging 60-class money for 50-class performance, how many times must I explain this to you in different threads, get it through your head already lol .

Even here, you're talking about 60 class money for 50 class performance, not 60 class money for 50 class bus width. 

 

30 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

RTX 4060 pricing that makes sense

RTX 4060: $250

RTX 4060-Ti: $300

RTX 4060-Ti 16GB: $340

Where do you get these prices? Even the 2060 MSRPd at $350 at launch. 1060 was $299. 960 was $199. 60 series prices have slowly gone up. 3060 was actually the outlier. MSRP was/is cheaper than the 2060. Being able to get one at that price at the height of...global issues... is a different story. 

If you're wanting the 4060 at $250 you're wanting it at the same price as a 3050. It would make sense for it to be closer to $300 since it does do better than the 3060 in most situations a 60 class card would be used for.

 

Once again, this isn't me going all "NvIdIa GoOd". They their down sides as does AMD. I'm in here just playing devils advocate. I'll shit on both companies as I've got a chance. 

[WallacEngineering]

41 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Bus size isn't the end all be all of performance though. Yes, it's part of the reason for 4060's lack luster 1440p performance, but it also doesn't have to be with a stronger chip. 

 

At the end of the day most of the population will go off numbers (4070 is better than 4060 and 6900xt is better than 6800xt because bigger numbers). Some will review benchmarks to see performance differences. Of that small number almost none will look at bus size or worry about bus size or how much of a die a gpu uses or how cut down it is/isn't. 

 

Ok, apparently people can't read anymore... I literally said die size, number of cuda cores, BUS width, and many other factors. Guess I have to spell out those factors...

 

Clock speed per cuda core, VRAM Amount, architecture and therefore IPC on each core, efficiency, blah blah blah blah blah....

 

41 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Where do you get these prices? Even the 2060 MSRPd at $350 at launch. 1060 was $299. 960 was $199.

 

Wow, I literally made them up, do I have to explain that too?

 

I literally said "SAY" as in "Imagine given 'X' GPU costs $300, now imagine its lesser sibling costs $200. Would you pay $300 for the lesser sibling?"

 

The point is if you want to buy an RTX 4060 then here is what you are REALLY GETTING for your money:

 

For $300 you will get an RTX 4050

 

For $400 you will get an RTX 4050-Ti 8GB

 

For $500 you will get an RTX 4050-Ti with 16GB of VRAM.

 

Thats it, end of story.

 

The BUS with is whats lowering relative performance of the RTX 4060 cards as they move from 1080p to 1440p and beyond. The BUS width is what is causing the relative performance to go down.

 

If there was no BUS limitation, then the RTX 4060s would be about 10% faster at all 3 resolutions, not just 1080p. At higher resolutions, you are passing more data/bandwidth through the card and you NEED a wider BUS width to support that extra data. Why do you think higher-tier cards have massive BUS widths? Maybe its to support that extra data coming through... Hmmmm... Interesting...

 

But because the BUS width of the RTX 4060 is so stupidly narrow, the flow of data gets choked off at higher resolutions. There isn't enough data bandwidth to support full performance at higher resolutions and so, the RTX 4060s begin falling behind the RTX 3060s.

 

The BUS width wouldn't have mattered if Nvidia just called it by its real name and sold it as an RTX 4050 for the lower prices I suggested in previous comments because nobody cares if their cheap 50-class card falls off in performance at higher resolutions. They bought a 50-class card because they wanted a cheap card that is pretty much for 1080p gaming only.

 

Also interesting is that the RTX 3050 came with a 128-Bit BUS the same as this fake "RTX 4060"... Hmmmm... Now isn't that interesting as well... You starting to catch on yet... Hmmmmm....???

 

Seriously, go watch the Gamers Nexus review of the RTX 4060-Ti. He literally states in the video that relative performance drops at higher resolutions are because of BUS width.

 

I seriously have to ask at this point, does anyone on this forum bother checking their data before saying it? I literally checked, Im literally telling you things that have been said by professionals who know better than I do. Im telling you things that have been found in actual tests, these are not just my opinions, these are known FACTS.

 

The only opinions I actually have are that anyone who buys an RTX 4060 of any kind at MSRP is an idiot, that the RTX 4080 pricing for gamers is dumb, and that AMDs naming scheme for RX 7000 is stupid. Oh - and AMD keeps launching new products at prices too high so just wait until they fall to reasonable prices like every other card has.

 

Speaking of the whole "Un-launched 4080 12GB thing there @starsmine, thats a perfect thing you brought up there because thats literally what the RTX 4060s are - except this time Nvidia got away with it. Remember how Nvidia wanted to charge $900 for the RTX 4080 12GB that is now called the 4070-Ti and launched at $800 instead.

 

Well look at that, Nvidia has done it more than once, now haven't they? And because there was no other lower-tier card already on the market to compare to, nobody had any information to cause an uproar about it the way they did with the "Unlaunched 4080 12GB".

 

So there ya have it. They used their big brains to dodge PR and feedback before launch and the RTX 4060s are literally the "Unlaunched RTX 4080 12GB" all over again. Thank you for making my point for me

[IkeaGnome]

4 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Ok, apparently people can't read anymore... I literally said die size, number of cuda cores, BUS width, and many other factors. Guess I have to spell out those factors...

I also didn't only say bus size. 

 

26 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Of that small number almost none will look at bus size or worry about bus size or how much of a die a gpu uses or how cut down it is/isn't. 

As far as the rest, I had a long reply written up, but as I remember from every interaction I've had with you, no one else except you is correct. Have fun in your little world. 

[WallacEngineering]

6 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

As far as the rest, I had a long reply written up, but as I remember from every interaction I've had with you, no one else except you is correct. Have fun in your little world. 

 

Okay, but I have literally backed up every single thing I have said with evidence from professionals.

 

So if you are saying I am wrong, then you are also saying that Steve from GN is wrong, and Linus is wrong, and Hardware Unboxed is wrong, and literally everyone who has actually tested these products is wrong - because Im literally saying what they have all said.

 

So go figure your only response is that panzy-ass "oh I guess you must be right about everything" because you can't just admit the fact that you did not check your information before you said anything.

 

Ya, good luck with that one buddy

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Okay, but I have literally backed up every single thing I have said with evidence from professionals.

 

32 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Wow, I literally made them up, do I have to explain that too?

 

I literally said "SAY" as in "Imagine given 'X' GPU costs $300, now imagine its lesser sibling costs $200. Would you pay $300 for the lesser sibling?"

♥

[WallacEngineering]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

 

♥

Lol, so you take two things completely out of context and think they make sense together or that it means anything, haha they were two completely different topics you moron

 

One was being used as an example "would you pay $100 more for this fake product that I made up prices for" and the other was stating the fact that literally everything I have said regarding the performance of the RTX 4060s is based off professionals. I.E. I actually watch all the reviews from Steve, Linus, Hardware Unboxed, and a few others, take all that data into account, and then explain my opinions based on those facts.

 

Ya Im not sure how a human being can be as stupid as you are to think you would actually get away with that BS. Please go back to playing Minecraft with your little 12 year old friends now .

[WallacEngineering]

Hmmm... I just realized something... Why are so many people defending the RTX 4060s... I don't get it. Like are you actually impressed with their performance? Do you actually think they are a good value or even okay value?

 

Like even if you liked the RTX 4080 I would be like "pretty damn expensive but I can't fault you too much because its a sick card and has the Ray-Tracing performance, its just overpriced like crazy"

 

But if you are buying an RTX 4060 you are doing so because you can't afford a 4070 or higher, in which case just buy a 3060. I don't see any reason why anyone would defend the RTX 4060...

 

You guys confuse me, you really do

 

If you want a 60-class card from Nvidia then Ill tell you exactly what you should do:

 

Because the RTX 4060s are slower than the RTX 3060s at higher resolutions but the 4060s are faster at lower resolutions, the overall performance between RTX 4060's and RTX 3060's is pretty much the same. So because last-gen is cheaper - you buy those, plain and simple.

 

If you want enough VRAM to nit have to worry about it - then RTX 3060 12GB can be found brand new in box with warranty from retailers for about $280. So thats $280 for the performance of the RTX 4060 with an extra 4GB of VRAM. If you want extra performance then buy the RTX 3060-Ti. And until RTX 4060s drop in price to match that terrible performance, there is simply no way anyone would ever suggest one for a build.

[starsmine]

 

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, starsmine said:

 

The best 7900 GRE model to buy is the 6800 XT