Using Peltier or other coolers for a solid-state desktop

[metallicace]

So, the idea is, everything inside the desktop PC or server is solid-state.

 

This could be useful for hazardous environments - or in my case, I'm lazy when it comes to dusting my room, and I don't want dust getting inside the PC.

 

Could it be done by using heat pipes from inside the PC to the outside, so that the pipes can be cooled via fans, water cooling, or peltier module(s)?

 

Note that outside the PC doesn't have to be solid state, and that I just don't want airflow inside the case, so water cooling could work.

 

Is there a simple and cheap to build (not concerned about electricity usage) way of accomplishing this?

[Levent]

Those have been around for longer than computer have been around.

https://ldcooling.com/shop/14-phase-change

[Stahlmann]

You want airflow inside your case. There are many small components on your motherboard etc. that need some sort of cooling. It's just not worth spending hundreds when you can just dust off your computer every few months.

[DreamCat04]

19 minutes ago, metallicace said:

So, the idea is, everything inside the desktop PC or server is solid-state.

 

This could be useful for hazardous environments - or in my case, I'm lazy when it comes to dusting my room, and I don't want dust getting inside the PC.

 

Could it be done by using heat pipes from inside the PC to the outside, so that the pipes can be cooled via fans, water cooling, or peltier module(s)?

 

Note that outside the PC doesn't have to be solid state, and that I just don't want airflow inside the case, so water cooling could work.

 

Is there a simple and cheap to build (not concerned about electricity usage) way of accomplishing this?

Depending on your case, you can also install intake filters that keep a good portion of dust out of your PC. And stuff like the VRMs also need to be cooled. "undusting" your PC won't take long and you only have to do it a few times a year, maybe even once a year if you want to be lazy.

[jaslion]

24 minutes ago, metallicace said:

don't want dust getting inside the PC.

They use convection of heat so dust will still enter and need cleaning

 

Issue is also that the air inside the pc can get pretty hot still and not all components can like that.

 

Your idea has been done many times before and there are ready made solutions out there just extremely expensive diy or ready made

[metallicace]

13 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

You want airflow inside your case

No, I don't.

 

I understand that other parts of the motherboard need cooling. The idea was to use so many heat pipes that the inside of the case would also be cooled, perhaps I wasn't clear on this.

 

I'm now looking into phase changing desktop cases.

21 minutes ago, Levent said:

Those have been around for longer than computer have been around.

I'm looking into this. Thanks for the link!

[aDoomGuy]

There is something called dust filters.

 

But go clean your room. It's healthier for the carbon based life form(s) occupying.

 

/shrug

[mariushm]

As others said, some components on a motherboard need some air flow over them, natural air convection, to stay cool or to not overheat the circuit board (because they would normally dissipate a part of the wasted energy into the circuit board)

You could get a block of copper or aluminum and carefully machine it to make holes, indentations, channels, whatever wherever there's a tall component. You could add half a mm or something like that above some chips, so that you could put a thermal pad above those chips to have the heat transferred into the block of metal. 

You could seal the motherboard and everything between this top block of metal and a metal backplate, making it waterproof, gas proof, whatever, make channels around the board on both metal blocks, add some rubber seal or a couple rubber seals, then use screws to compress both blocks together.  Add rubber seals where cables come out so that water and air couldn't get inside.

You could make holes through the block so that you could pump water or other liquids to cool the metal block. It's been done.. you can find some videos on Youtube.

 

Peltier elements are fairly inefficient ... you can do better with other things like special liquids for submerging the whole machine (minus psu because of high voltage stuff inside it) into liquid ... it's been done with mineral oil but it's usually hard to keep it pure enough to not cause problems in areas like the back of a cpu socket where you have high currents and low voltage and the mineral oil could provide a low resistance path for the current to jump over if it becomes impure.

There's some liquids from 3M that boil at very low temperatures.. and they're used for overclocking contests... but it's expensive.

[DreamCat04]

11 minutes ago, metallicace said:

No, I don't.

 

I understand that other parts of the motherboard need cooling. The idea was to use so many heat pipes that the inside of the case would also be cooled, perhaps I wasn't clear on this.

 

I'm now looking into phase changing desktop cases.

I'm looking into this. Thanks for the link!

Stahlmann probably meant that there needs to be air circulating inside of the case, but still, over time, this will really heat up that airv in your case and it will harm your HDDs and also your SSDs over time as they don't like getting too hot (50°C for HDDs from what I've heard and like 60-65°C for the NAND-Chips on SSDs). Just get a dust filter, if there's none made for your case, you can DIY, or clean your room regularly, it doesn't take that long. Or if you're that lazy, remove the built-up dust from your PC once or twice a year, which will neither take long (10min max)

Edited January 31, 2023 by DreamCat04

[metallicace]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Your idea has been done many times before

I was hoping so. Just haven't got the right search terms.

9 minutes ago, DreamCat04 said:

you can also install intake filters that keep a good portion of dust out

No, I don't want any possibility of dust getting in.

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

They use convection of heat so dust will still enter

Understood.

9 minutes ago, aDoomGuy said:

carbon based life form

So they tell me.

7 minutes ago, aDoomGuy said:

something called dust filters

I don't want any air being exchanged from outside the case to inside the case, or vice versa.

8 minutes ago, mariushm said:

can find some videos on Youtube

I'll look into it. Thanks for your substantial reply.

8 minutes ago, DreamCat04 said:

Just get a dust filter

Again, I understand the air inside the case needs to be cool. I just don't want any air transfer, hence the Peltier suggestion.

[jaslion]

3 hours ago, metallicace said:

I don't want any air being exchanged from outside the case to inside the case, or vice versa.

Make a high powered fridge basically.

[metallicace]

19 hours ago, jaslion said:

Make a high powered fridge basically

that's the plan with phase change cooling

i'm worried about a few things, such as condensation if there's a leak, and it's not exactly cheap to purchase or run, but i have to do much more research

stahlmann and others might be right after all and i should just use fans, considering i want it cheap to purchase, but i'm going to pursue this fridge idea, anyway, just to see where it takes me

[jaslion]

2 hours ago, metallicace said:

that's the plan with phase change cooling

i'm worried about a few things, such as condensation if there's a leak, and it's not exactly cheap to purchase or run, but i have to do much more research

stahlmann and others might be right after all and i should just use fans, considering i want it cheap to purchase, but i'm going to pursue this fridge idea, anyway, just to see where it takes me

If you want cheap you have to go with conventional stuff just running enough cooling will easily be at minimum 1.5kw of constant power draw

[thrasher_565]

9 hours ago, metallicace said:

that's the plan with phase change cooling

i'm worried about a few things, such as condensation if there's a leak, and it's not exactly cheap to purchase or run, but i have to do much more research

stahlmann and others might be right after all and i should just use fans, considering i want it cheap to purchase, but i'm going to pursue this fridge idea, anyway, just to see where it takes me

fully enclosed case that use heat pips from to cpu to the side of the case with is a heat sink is a think for complete silent but they cost like $3000+

 

external cooling like a rad outside the case could be an option too and way cheaper... but sealing a mb that gets no air flow i dont no. you would need blocks for the vrms, nb, and cpu but there other parts that could use cooling.

 

i be leave the idea of a phase change cooling is 2 loops one cools and one takes the hot and they never touch each other making them 2 loops witch means i guess you can use other cooling other then water to cool it?

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by thrasher_565

[metallicace]

13 hours ago, jaslion said:

cooling will easily be at minimum 1.5kw of constant power draw

if this could be automated to switch off and not use any cooling during low cpu/gpu usage/heat output then that'd be ideal, i just have to do more research, been a bit busy lately

[metallicace]

6 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

they cost like $3000+

i'm not so concerned about initial cost or running cost anymore, i'm more concerned about longevity without having to physically maintain it for years at a time

 

6 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

sealing a mb that gets no air flow

yeah, not doing this - cooling the entire case just seems easier and has better/cheaper upgrade options in the future

 

6 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

i guess you can use other cooling other then water to cool it?

i'm not sure how it works exactly, i have several tabs open ready to read, just havne't got around to it, yet

[thrasher_565]

24 minutes ago, metallicace said:

i'm not so concerned about initial cost or running cost anymore, i'm more concerned about longevity without having to physically maintain it for years at a time

 

yeah, not doing this - cooling the entire case just seems easier and has better/cheaper upgrade options in the future

 

i'm not sure how it works exactly, i have several tabs open ready to read, just havne't got around to it, yet

i dont get it pcs already can last a long time with out maintenance all ready... the cost of doing anything it be cheaper to just buy or build a new one. ya there things that should be changed but most cases dont. like in office pcs they never get any maintenance. no fans, no thermal past because its easier to just replace it and now more cost gos to the tech then the cost of the pc. but you can but parts that should last 10+ years. if there a way to get rid of the fans ok that's one thing, use a fanless cpu cooler and thermal pad. ram, cpu and mb should all ready last a long time. storage i hard can last years with the right hdds. but then i guss we need to no what the use case for this pc is... is it in the elements? what will this pc be doing? servers already use redundancy in everything. keeping dust off of it wont make it last any longer. keeping it cooler in throy sould make it last longer but there no evidence suggesting so. there was a test done to see if 24/7 use can degrade the cpu were it could not get the oc anymore and concussion was kinda... imo i think the test was flawed but w/e with a small sample of 3 cpus its what it is.

 

there are fans the clame can run 300,000 hours or more...

 

oh and external water cooling has been a thing for a long time. just dont no how a completely sealed case would work. but you still have to add water and maintenance it. thow way easier then in side the case.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by thrasher_565

[metallicace]

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

pcs already can last a long time with out maintenance all ready

yeah, they can, but it gets really dusty where i am

 

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

use a fanless cpu cooler and thermal pad

that's a good idea, and they're good for nucs, but the performance is greatly diminished when cpu is 100% for more than 5mins

 

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

what the use case for this pc is

always on, decrypting my very old ethereum wallet keystore file that i forgot the password to (it's only like $10 so it's more of just an experiment) and i'm debating just running an ec2 instance for a few years

 

after it's cracked the keystore file, probably crypto mining, depending on how many coins have(n't) switched to proof-of-stake

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

is it in the elements?

the potential location will be a garage powered by solar panels and battery and potentially in the elements since it's basically outdoors - when it's winter it would be better if it used less electricity so some automation with temperature detection would be ideal, but given it's enclosed in it's own case, outside temperature probably won't make a difference

 

in the mean time, it will be in my really dusty room for initial testing for 6 months or so - it gets raelly dusty in here and there's also potential mould issues in areas i don't have physical access to that are partially closed off, but it's not really a renters market at the moment (long story i don't want to go into)

 

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

keeping dust off of it wont make it last any longer

i disagree, but i could be wrong

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

keeping it cooler in throy sould make it last longer

this is also my theory

 

1 hour ago, thrasher_565 said:

but there no evidence suggesting so

i believe dust makes it hotter, perhaps only slightly, but, i've seen pcs at ground level that have built up so much dust over only 2 years that go green screen crash due to dust - granted that a can of compressed air fixed it, but i really like the idea of just putting an entire built pc (including it's case) air-gapped inside a fridge - cables could be a problem, but i reckon there's a commercial market for a pc fridge that is also a psu and everything else is wireless (or pass-through via the fridge) including the display

 

then again, it would use excessive amounts of electricity, so maybe not, but everyone's getting solar panels nowadays so it's not so much a problem anymore

[thrasher_565]

23 minutes ago, metallicace said:

yeah, they can, but it gets really dusty where i am

 

that's a good idea, and they're good for nucs, but the performance is greatly diminished when cpu is 100% for more than 5mins

 

always on, decrypting my very old ethereum wallet keystore file that i forgot the password to (it's only like $10 so it's more of just an experiment) and i'm debating just running an ec2 instance for a few years

 

after it's cracked the keystore file, probably crypto mining, depending on how many coins have(n't) switched to proof-of-stake

the potential location will be a garage powered by solar panels and battery and potentially in the elements since it's basically outdoors - when it's winter it would be better if it used less electricity so some automation with temperature detection would be ideal, but given it's enclosed in it's own case, outside temperature probably won't make a difference

 

in the mean time, it will be in my really dusty room for initial testing for 6 months or so - it gets raelly dusty in here and there's also potential mould issues in areas i don't have physical access to that are partially closed off, but it's not really a renters market at the moment (long story i don't want to go into)

 

i disagree, but i could be wrong

this is also my theory

 

i believe dust makes it hotter, perhaps only slightly, but, i've seen pcs at ground level that have built up so much dust over only 2 years that go green screen crash due to dust - granted that a can of compressed air fixed it, but i really like the idea of just putting an entire built pc (including it's case) air-gapped inside a fridge - cables could be a problem, but i reckon there's a commercial market for a pc fridge that is also a psu and everything else is wireless (or pass-through via the fridge) including the display

 

then again, it would use excessive amounts of electricity, so maybe not, but everyone's getting solar panels nowadays so it's not so much a problem anymore

well a fridge dose not have to deal with heat added. i once live in an apartment were the fridge door didn't seal and dint no how much hydro should have cost but it was $150 every 3 moths and probably ran 247. 

 

dust after a long time that blocks filters could add about 10c. but there fan less coolers and thermlpads so...

 

not saying dust cant kill things like dust in my dads amp and i get feed back with the valum knob. 

 

ya i dont no about temp and being outside should be fine thow. the gpu it self will probably be the failure point if i had to guess. is it worth trying to make it last nop. other then cheap mods like ziptiy fans to it.

 

i mean like 5 mints every few years to dust it i dont no seems not too bad. and i mean turn it off take the side panel off use a duster put side panel back on and run it...

 

but to each there own i guess

 

newer stuff is always faster, less power per fps, but temps seem a bit hi lately thow but that will change thow.

Edited February 2, 2023 by thrasher_565

[metallicace]

10 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

5 mints every few years to dust it

the potential resting location is more or less remote, so physical access is pretty much set-and-forget, plus i imagine there are plenty of others with similar needs

 

16 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

being outside should be fine thow. the gpu it self will probably be the failure point if i had to guess.

i want failure points to be as close to zero as possible, self-containment seems like my only option here

[thrasher_565]

7 minutes ago, metallicace said:

the potential resting location is more or less remote, so physical access is pretty much set-and-forget, plus i imagine there are plenty of others with similar needs

 

i want failure points to be as close to zero as possible, self-containment seems like my only option here

hmm about bout superged in liquid?

[metallicace]

1 minute ago, thrasher_565 said:

superged in liquid?

mineral oil can lose it's non-conductivity over time, plus there's wicking (oil climbs up cables and creates a mess)

i've looked into this before and fish tanks cost a lot, plus the issue of running at 100% cpu/gpu 24x7 would mean that the oil would eventually heat up after a few weeks and be pointless

submersion in mineral oil is good for gaming because it usually gets shut down every 12-36 hours (depending on how hardcore a gamer you are) but for server-like constant operation it's not really feasible

[thrasher_565]

2 minutes ago, metallicace said:

mineral oil can lose it's non-conductivity over time, plus there's wicking (oil climbs up cables and creates a mess)

i've looked into this before and fish tanks cost a lot, plus the issue of running at 100% cpu/gpu 24x7 would mean that the oil would eventually heat up after a few weeks and be pointless

submersion in mineral oil is good for gaming because it usually gets shut down every 12-36 hours (depending on how hardcore a gamer you are) but for server-like constant operation it's not really feasible

well you still need a rad and pump too cool the oil. big enough rand and you wont need fans on it.

fish take is for making it look nice you can use a plastic box i would think?  but has any one made a sealed one? with proper  leak proof connectors?  i dont no you probably wont find an answer

[metallicace]

2 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

you can use a plastic box i would think?

yeah, probably could, not going down this route tho

 

3 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

still need a rad and pump too cool the oil.

yeah, i know, but with so many moving parts, so much can go wrong, it's not exactly set-and-forget

 

5 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

has any one made a sealed one? with proper  leak proof connectors?

may as well use a phase-change cooler/fridge at this point, slightly less things that can go wrong

 

i appreciate all these ideas tho

[Bestscrewdriverever]

You trippin about dust. I put the radiator outside the house. Right now it is like a fridge.   Good airflow can help with things like dust and condensation. Server buildings dump outside air straight into the facility but the air is moving so much, condensation and dust can't settle.