zen 4 AMD Ryzen 7000 Zen4 “Raphael” Desktop CPU Review Roundup: Ryzen 5 7600X, Ryzen 7 7700X, Ryzen 9 7900X & Ryzen 9 7950X Thoroughly Benchmarked

[Fasterthannothing]

Honestly I was expecting more for the price. 

[porina]

Partially watched Ian Cutress' stream on the launch. Two things of note:

 

ECC is supported, and it sounds like the system ECC not just die ECC, but it is up to mobo to support it properly. This sounds a bit better than with AM4 but I feel is a rather weak situation. 

 

The other is that Infinity Fabric is half the width but twice the clock per link. Bandwidth remains the same, which to me means anyone buying single CCD (8 core or lower models) wont have full DDR5 bandwidth to the cores. That's a big disappointment to me. At best IF was keeping up with DDR4 speeds run synchronously, so they will choke on DDR5. Not a problem if you have two CCDs on 12/16 core models since they can use a bit each. Surplus can go to the iGPU I suppose. To me this makes it more important to wait for an X3D model of 8 core so it wont be as starved.

 

Don't know if anyone has tested it yet, but my prediction is the 6/8 core models will benefit less from faster ram, even beyond the simple factor they have fewer cores eating data.

[JoshB2084]

It looks good on the paper, but came end a little bit disappointed. I guess I kept my B450 motherboard little bit longer with upcoming upgrade Ryzen 5 or 7 5000 series. And 3D V-Cache looks like a very important for gaining, and we want it on 7000 series.

[BiG StroOnZ]

19 minutes ago, porina said:

Don't know if anyone has tested it yet, but my prediction is the 6/8 core models will benefit less from faster ram, even beyond the simple factor they have fewer cores eating data.

 

Ryzen 7 7700X DDR5 memory scaling review:

 

Quote

Our initial expectations were that DDR5 memory in between 4800 MHz and 6000 Mhz would have made a huge difference. The story, I am afraid, is more complex. The combination known as sweet spot memories, when used in conjunction with Ryzen 7000, is unquestionably a good spot in terms of performance. I am inclined to recommend it at 75-100 USD more for this type of memory. But only if you are willing to pay more money on DDR5, latency is what matters, and this article should have demonstrated that CL30 at 6000 MHz is unquestionably quicker than, say, CL40 at 5200 MHz. Applications wise however, it's harder to notice. For gaming faster and more agile memory bandwidth helps.  There is a discernible difference between 4800 and 6000 MHz, but the price difference is also a thing. In short, latency is statistically more important than frequency. Keep in mind, though, we tested with an enthusiast class GPU, with a more common graphics card, all these bigger differences will fade away, as the GPU is then the bottleneck. However, when we look at an RTX 3090 in gaming, we can observe that the frequency and, most critically, latency scale upwards.  

 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/ddr5_ryzen_7_7700_ddr5_memory_scaling_review,19.html

[StephanTW]

may have been mentioned somewhere but i don't seem to find it, but do we know what the APU on the different models are based on/equivalent to?

[Arika]

Well that was a let down

[BiG StroOnZ]

7 minutes ago, StephanTW said:

may have been mentioned somewhere but i don't seem to find it, but do we know what the APU on the different models are based on/equivalent to?

 

Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StephanTW]

1 minute ago, BiG StroOnZ said:

Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

partly, but i guess i was expecting more along the lines of "well it has a 6500 XT mobile in there", which i fear from looking at those graphs especially looking at the last gen G variants might not even exist

[TetraSky]

So it might be a good idea to snag a 5800x for much cheaper than the 7600x, to get what is basically the same performances. 3% IPC improvement over the 5000 series, 20% over the 3000 series... Coming from the 3600, this seems interesting. But I could also just buy a 5800x, plop it in my motherboard and get 7600x performances instead

 

All in all, this is good. I guess the early benchmark rumors were true that the high end up is the top in nearly everything. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it in a generation or two, to see if it's worth upgrading to yet.

[vetali]

This makes me excited for Zen 4 X3D variants... non 3D vcache Zen 4 is pretty meh if you are gaming. I wonder how fast 5800X3Ds will disappear off shelves.

[BiG StroOnZ]

21 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Well that was a let down

 

I thought TweakTown summarizes it nicely in its "Final Thoughts":

 

Quote

"Don't believe the hype" should probably be the tagline for this review. Still, we get sucked into this same scenario launch after launch, and it's mostly the media sites, hell, even TweakTown, that gets us all fired up for huge gains and the never-ending Intel vs. AMD war.

 

Unless we will purpose-build CPUs for whatever scenario a consumer wants to use the machine for, any given CPU isn't going to land at the top of all benchmark charts. All that behind me, after spending time with Zen 4, I'm relatively impressed with what AMD has done. Gen over gen, the 7900X beats the hell out of the 5900X, and with a new platform underneath it, consumers finally get to see what DDR5 and PCIe Gen 5 has in store for AMD.

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10193/amd-ryzen-9-7900x-zen-4-cpu/index.html

 

15 minutes ago, StephanTW said:

partly, but i guess i was expecting more along the lines of "well it has a 6500 XT mobile in there", which i fear from looking at those graphs especially looking at the last gen G variants might not even exist

 

Well it is RDNA 2 graphics at its core. This is what I found:

 

Quote

It's based on the integrated graphics in the company's "Rembrandt" processors that make up the Ryzen 6000 mobile series, so it includes all the fancy features from that family, like AV1 video decode (not encode), HDMI 2.1 FRL support, and DisplayPort 2.0 support. It also could allow Zen 4 CPUs to support displays over Thunderbolt without needing awkward loopback connectors.

 

We're looking at the smallest functional unit of RDNA 2 possible: a single Workgroup Processor (WGP), similar to a pair of GCN Compute Units—one-quarter of that available to the Steam Deck. GPU-Z reports that the chip has four ROPs and eight TMUs, which is a quarter of the raster resources available to the Nintendo Switch, and half of that on the Steam Deck.

 

To put things in perspective, this integrated GPU has similar theoretical raster graphics performance to a Radeon HD 4850, HD 5670, or HD 7730. It's not far off of an R7 250. Sure, these are older and lower-end GPUs, but they played games just fine when they were new.

 

 

 

https://hothardware.com/news/amds-ryzen-zen-4-igpu-can-run-these-games

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, porina said:

ECC is supported, and it sounds like the system ECC not just die ECC, but it is up to mobo to support it properly. This sounds a bit better than with AM4 but I feel is a rather weak situation. 

It's the exact same situation as with AM4. There are non-workstation boards that have ECC support on Ryzen CPUs, not Ryzen Pro. It's actually always been the situation and ECC support has actually always been a platform thing, kinda not a CPU thing unless someone does an Intel and microcode locks it out.

 

Motherboard vendors have to actually allow it to be functional otherwise it's off.

 

Basically nothing has changed at all.

 

Quote

List of AMD Ryzen™ Processors with support for ECC memory

 

The table below shows list of Ryzen™ processors that support memory modules with ECC functions, along with their official names, and if they are supported by B550 and/or X570 chipsets.

 

Please note that when it comes to APUs (Ryzen 3000/4000 G-series), only PRO processors (e.g. Ryzen 3 PRO 3200G) will support ECC memory.

 

 

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1045186/

[BiG StroOnZ]

Andreas Schilling from hardwareLUXX brings up a good point:

 

 

 

Source:

 

https://youtu.be/y_jaS_FZcjI?t=745

[Shzzit]

95 c. Stock in custom cooling???   What the F?

 

And last gen 5800 3d beat out new ryzen in gaming wow. 
 

I also noticed some of these reviewers are idiots, they did gpu bound games to show cpu performance, which resulted in all CPUs getting exact same fps.  /facepalm 

 

 

So if i got one of these and a 4090 it would be a bad idea to put them both in the same water loop?  Man I hope intels 24 core does better for temps, I might have to wait for the 7800 3d for a gaming cpu. 

[HenrySalayne]

11 hours ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

This is super cool. ECO mode may be more viable than I thought for some situations. Obviously this is only one test but its something to think about and play with.

This just shows you how much more power the last few MHz really take. Dropping the power by 67% will only lead to an 18% performance drop.

[HenrySalayne]

50 minutes ago, Shzzit said:

Man I hope intels 24 core does better for temps

Since it will be just a 12900K on steroids with a few E-cores sprinkled on top, NOPE!

 

In synthetic benchmarks the Ryzen 7000 CPUs run really hot and boost all cores to more then 5 GHz. In gaming not so much, and 60°C is not unreasonable.

[Shzzit]

7 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Since it will be just a 12900K on steroids with a few E-cores sprinkled on top, NOPE!

What 8 more e cores or 4 and 6ghz clock?  Hoping it’s a bit better since intel won’t have AMDs ihs which seems to cause 20c more.

 

Oh and ain’t amd 4mm and intel like 10nm?  Won’t that effect heat too? 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Shzzit said:

95 c. Stock in custom cooling???   What the F?

These operate the same as GPUs now, target temperature and will boost until either temperature target is reached or power limit, whichever comes first. So they pretty much don't operate like any CPUs from the past, AMD or Intel.

 

In a way I quite like that, flip side puts another nail in overclocking. Or makes that even more simple when the best and most correct way is better cooling and if required a power limit increase. Certainly becoming more user friendly to OC CPUs like this, as it is for GPUs.

 

1 hour ago, Shzzit said:

So if i got one of these and a 4090 it would be a bad idea to put them both in the same water loop?  Man I hope intels 24 core does better for temps, I might have to wait for the 7800 3d for a gaming cpu. 

Makes no difference at all, temperature of the CPU has no effect at all to the loop temperature or other components in the loop. All you need to consider is power usage, that's it. A CPU using 150W with a Tcase of 55C is literally the same as a CPU using 150W with a Tcase of 95C, one of the CPUs just has really bad thermal transfer. Both are putting in the same amount of energy in to the loop.

[Shzzit]

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

These operate the same as GPUs now, target temperature and will boost until either temperature target is reached or power limit, whichever comes first. So they pretty much don't operate like any CPUs from the past, AMD or Intel.

 

In a way I quite like that, flip side puts another nail in overclocking. Or makes that even more simple when the best and most correct way is better cooling and if required a power limit increase. Certainly becoming more user friendly to OC CPUs like this, as it is for GPUs.

 

Makes no difference at all, temperature of the CPU has no effect at all to the loop temperature or other components in the loop. All you need to consider is power usage, that's it. A CPU using 150W with a Tcase of 55C is literally the same as a CPU using 150W with a Tcase of 95C, one of the CPUs just has really bad thermal transfer. Both are putting in the same amount of energy in to the loop.

Uggg, just sounds like another added cost.

 

So you have to overspend on cooling just to get the performance you paid for?  

 

[Spotty]

4 minutes ago, Shzzit said:

Uggg, just sounds like another added cost.

 

So you have to overspend on cooling just to get the performance you paid for? 

Pretty much, yes.

Gamers Nexus review of the 7600X is up on Youtube. In it they emphasises the additional cost of expensive motherboards, DDR5 memory, and more expensive coolers necessary for the 7000 series.

 

Ryzen 7000 series is looking pretty expensive all things considered.

 

2 hours ago, Shzzit said:

I also noticed some of these reviewers are idiots, they did gpu bound games to show cpu performance, which resulted in all CPUs getting exact same fps.  /facepalm

Also see Gamers Nexus reviews on the 7600X and 7950X, they did show some game benchmark results where it is GPU bound but they emphasise that point and make the point that in a lot of games you're going to be GPU bound anyway so if you're strictly gaming it's probably better to spend more money on the GPU than on the more expensive CPUs. I would have to watch LTTs review again but I think they also made the same point in some of their benchmarks.

[Stahlmann]

So 95°C is intended behavior? If it doesn't impact the CPU's lifespan give me all the performance i can get. But there will be so many threads about this...

 

But this is horrible for most coolers, as fan curves are entirely dependant on CPU temp. If it goes to 95°C instantly that means fans will always be on full blast when the CPU starts any real work.

 

Luckily my fans are going off my custom loop water temp. It really seems like custom loop is the best way to approach current hardware. EK is going to have a field day.

[Stahlmann]

7 hours ago, TetraSky said:

So it might be a good idea to snag a 5800x for much cheaper than the 7600x, to get what is basically the same performances. 3% IPC improvement over the 5000 series, 20% over the 3000 series...

But why put so much weight on IPC? If IPC doesn't improve that much but clock speeds do significantly the end result still is higher performance, which is what actually matters.

[Shzzit]

48 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Pretty much, yes.

Gamers Nexus review of the 7600X is up on Youtube. In it they emphasises the additional cost of expensive motherboards, DDR5 memory, and more expensive coolers necessary for the 7000 series.

 

Ryzen 7000 series is looking pretty expensive all things considered.

 

Also see Gamers Nexus reviews on the 7600X and 7950X, they did show some game benchmark results where it is GPU bound but they emphasise that point and make the point that in a lot of games you're going to be GPU bound anyway so if you're strictly gaming it's probably better to spend more money on the GPU than on the more expensive CPUs. I would have to watch LTTs review again but I think they also made the same point in some of their benchmarks.

Thanks mate I’ll check those videos out.  And thanks for all the reply’s correcting me on my info.  Respect for doing that instead of attacking me. 

[Stahlmann]

13 hours ago, ZetZet said:

7600X needs price cuts before it even releases. Sad. Unless Intel really does bump up their entire range...

Even though it's expensive for a 600-series CPU you could still argue it's a better gaming CPU than Intel's best. People need to realize that CPU names don't matter just like they don't matter with GPUs (see 3080 12G). What actually matters is performance requirements and budget.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Shzzit said:

Uggg, just sounds like another added cost.

 

So you have to overspend on cooling just to get the performance you paid for?  

 

Really depends on what you are doing. If you are playing games then you will never have all cores at 100% maximum power so you can use any current cooler good enough for AM4/Ryzen 5000 CPUs and get the full performance of a Ryzen 7000 CPU.

 

Even if you become temperature bound for performance the loss is actually going to be very minimal, the performance scaling is really quite bad at the upper end of the scale.

 

Realistically it's not something I would worry about, all current cooler recommendations apply and you should not change your thinking on this unless you have a really good reason to. One reason would be knowing you will be regularly running sustained all core high power workloads and don't want to be temperature performance limited by that.

 

Honestly I don't think it's that big of a deal at all, just like it isn't on GPUs. Weird times ahead, going to be very interesting.

Edited September 27, 2022 by leadeater