Gamers Nexus calling out Linus for monetizing on his own controversy

[AlTech]

2 hours ago, Senzelian said:

Fair enough

 

I didn't say they throw all or most of them away. Just said often they throw them away. Isn't that similar enough to "some"?

 

 

There's a little more to that. The packaging is also important. The product could be perfectly fine, but might not get resold because the packaging is missing or destroyed. Depending on the damage and the value of the product, some are resold, some are simply thrown away.

They still resell items with damaged packaging so long as it's not excessively damaged. In those cases though they mark them down further than thwy would otherwise for like new products.

2 hours ago, Senzelian said:

They are also forced by EU law to do that. The additional 16 days they offer is them just doubling down on it, because it doesn't really matter at that point. Give the customer a nice feeling and something to argue for when they choose Amazon instead of a different retailer. There's a lot psychology that goes into convincing customers that their store is better than another and it's funny and scary at the same time how well this works. It goes so far, that I know at least of one person that said: "I don't know of any other online retailers than Amazon" and "Amazon is the only one offering a guaranteed return policy", even tho it's a law. 

 

[optimuss]

To me the biggest thing regarding warranties and "trust me bro" is that warranty is covered by company, not by owner at the time of purchase.

What if Linus sells the company tomorrow? Trust me bro is no obligation to new owner.

On a side note which I think has lead to this situation - this monetize everything approach is the main reason why I basically don't watch any LTT videos now. The original plan/promise to publish video every day is biting in the a.. for quite some time since most videos are just useless. Well, if it generates enough views I guess it's all good.

[Needfuldoer]

11 hours ago, Middcore said:

The entire labs project doesn't really fit the narrative of Linus only being interested in shallow content that maximizes profit.

Conjecture warning! There be assumptions ahead!

 

I see another key difference with the Labs:

 

Gary.

 

Linus hired someone he trusted with the project and handed them the reins. He even remarked in last week's WAN Show about how satisfying it is to give high level direction to a VP and watch them run with it, without having to get bogged down in minutiae himself.

 

Contrast that with this behind-the-scenes from March 2021. He's trying to be three people at once (CEO Linus, Producer/Host Linus, and Home Linus), and heavily involve himself in the writing and editorial output (reviewing every script, for example). You can see their workflow get bottlenecked by his available time, energy, and patience:

 

 

Assuming this is a reasonably realistic portrait of an average week at LMG, and they didn't ham the dysfunction up for dramatic effect (and the monday.com sponsorship) it's small wonder he comes across so stressed on WAN Show. Wearing so many hats worked back in the Langley house days, and they've mostly gotten away with it for the last few years, but as the company has grown the cracks have begun to show. (Factual errors slipping through to finished videos, the Vaultpocalypse, the transphobic editor alias in that one video...) One can only spin so many plates before they start crashing to the ground.

 

I think hiring a dedicated executive producer to delegate the day-to-day production grind onto would be a good start. Just scrolling through the staff list, it looks like the only person with "producer" in their title is Bell (and he focuses on ShortCircuit and WAN Show).  A trustworthy EP should be able to handle the script reviews and writer's meetings at the very least.

 

It's also long past time LMG hires a full time IT admin. Jake does a lot, but his primary job is "writer". Anthony is powerful, but even he can only do so much. Vault crashed because it wasn't set up right and nobody was minding it, and recovery was left to Jake, who was already swamped, and Wendell, who doesn't even work for LMG. The mega-expensive server project / video series took a back seat because its main writer (Jake) ran out of bandwidth between fixing Vault and overseeing the tech integration at Linus's new house.

 

I'm not trying to be mean, or say that anyone at LMG is incompetent or bad at what they do. It's just that the operation has grown to the point where no one person can be involved in everything. I get that relinquishing direct control is a difficult thing to do, especially when the final product has your name and face on it, but a general doesn't have a million privates reporting directly to them. The org chart can't look like it did in the garage just with more people on it, that's not scalable.

 

I have no doubt Linus cares a great deal about what he does. He clearly wants to be connected to the content, and that's admirable. But he's spread himself too thin for too long. You've built a strong operation, let it fly.

 

TL;DR: Executive producer + IT admin + more staff focus = less stressed Linus, IMO.

 

12 hours ago, mMontana said:

at which age Mr Jobs was chewed out from Apple? 

That was in 1985, so he was 30. He was meddling with projects, micromanaging, generally getting in the way, in denial about the direction the Macintosh division was going, and eventually made a failed attempt at a boardroom coup. Pepsi Man CEO John Sculley basically stripped Jobs of all meaningful responsibilities and relegated him to a "chairman" figurehead position and an office at the fringes of the Apple campus. Then Jobs resigned and started NeXT, poaching some Apple engineers along the way.

 

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=The_End_Of_An_Era.txt

 

11 hours ago, Harvey-Specter said:

I think he was pretty clear about the realities of warranties... He talked about how they're always worded in such a way that the company has a lot of flexibility to deny claims for basically any reason. He talked about how it essentially comes down to "the will of the company" and that he "has a lot of will" to take care of customers.

 

I used to work in an electronics store and had to manage contacting manufacturers on behalf of customers to get warranty repairs/replacements done, I've seen first hand how little a warranty means. This whole saga has really opened my eyes to how little the average person knows about how these things work. People are acting like a warranty is a magic pinky promise that guarantees that a company will "do the right thing".

 

I think the backlash wouldn't have been as harsh and widespread if Linus's responses on Twitter and the WAN Show weren't so dismissive and backpedal-y. He started off with comments along the lines of "warranties are worthless so we're just going to do what we always do", then "I could fold the company tomorrow and the warranty would be void anyway so why bother", to finally "guys if I die and my wife sees a warranty claim come through she'll be sad why do you want my wife to be sad". 

 

Honestly, I think that was just him being impulsive, getting more than a little defensive, and putting his foot in his mouth again. (How many times do we hear "what I meant was..."?) It was "Adblock is piracy" round 2. It really seemed like he took that "we don't implicitly trust companies and influencers" personally, even though on multiple occasions he's said not to implicitly trust companies and influencers.

 

If he just said from the beginning "we're drafting a written warranty that will cover manufacturing and material defects, and we'll go above and beyond for our customers just like we always have", I think this whole thing would've blown over. This is one instance where "PR crap" would've saved everyone a whole lot of grief and aggravation. (Seriously, I could hear Luke's internal facepalm in the last couple WAN Shows.)

[Senzelian]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

They still resell items with damaged packaging so long as it's not excessively damaged. In those cases though they mark them down further than thwy would otherwise for like new products.

Yeah I know. I bought that LG 34UM95 when it came out from Amazon. They claimed the packaging was damaged and so it was 50€ off. But actually there was no damage  

[RoseLuck462]

Meh, the whole drama was pretty dumb anyway, monetizing it just a way to recoup.

[OrdinaryPhil]

I'm not a big fan of Steve or GN at all for that matter. Any attempt they make to moral or ethical about business is an unfunny joke - everything they make & sell on their own stores is produced in China (undeniably the most tyrannical regime in the planet with a horrid human-rights track record). It's pot calling the kettle black. Living in that kind of glass house and then "calling out" anyone for... anything is beyond hypocritical.

Does that mean I think Linus is right? Meh - sort of.

It's definitely wiser to "roll with the punches" in terms of your online reputation. Modern companies have learned that if you ever apologize or admit a wrongdoing that the "mob" will just eat you alive, so it's better to control your own image by getting out ahead of something. The whole trust-me-bro shirt is definitely an attempt at damage control in this exact manner.

However you feel about it ethically, it's a good business move as it protects LTT and its employees. I think Linus handled it very poorly... bragging about how many shirts sold for everyone who complained was definitely foolish, but that's the sort of gaff that happens when you broadcast live.

I feel bad for Luke, who definitely knew better but didn't feel comfortable correcting his boss on camera.

 

[Lestat21]

8 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

I'm not a big fan of Steve or GN at all for that matter. Any attempt they make to moral or ethical about business is an unfunny joke - everything they make & sell on their own stores is produced in China (undeniably the most tyrannical regime in the planet with a horrid human-rights track record). It's pot calling the kettle black. Living in that kind of glass house and then "calling out" anyone for... anything is beyond hypocritical.

Does that mean I think Linus is right? Meh - sort of.

It's definitely wiser to "roll with the punches" in terms of your online reputation. Modern companies have learned that if you ever apologize or admit a wrongdoing that the "mob" will just eat you alive, so it's better to control your own image by getting out ahead of something. The whole trust-me-bro shirt is definitely an attempt at damage control in this exact manner.

However you feel about it ethically, it's a good business move as it protects LTT and its employees. I think Linus handled it very poorly... bragging about how many shirts sold for everyone who complained was definitely foolish, but that's the sort of gaff that happens when you broadcast live.

I feel bad for Luke, who definitely knew better but didn't feel comfortable correcting his boss on camera.
 

 

Having their products made in China has absolutely nothing to do with what's been talked about here. Linus has literally said they have their screwdrivers made in China but, again, that is NOT what is being discussed here.

[Stahlmann]

8 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

I'm not a big fan of Steve or GN at all for that matter. Any attempt they make to moral or ethical about business is an unfunny joke - everything they make & sell on their own stores is produced in China (undeniably the most tyrannical regime in the planet with a horrid human-rights track record). It's pot calling the kettle black. Living in that kind of glass house and then "calling out" anyone for... anything is beyond hypocritical.

So you're saying one can't criticize another person's behavior because both have products that are produced in china? This was never the point of this whole thing. Linus was crizicized because it was genuinely bad behavior.

[OrdinaryPhil]

10 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

So you're saying one can't criticize another person's behavior because both have products that are produced in china? This was never the point of this whole thing. Linus was crizicized because it was genuinely bad behavior.

Yes.

Doing business with an evil regime that tortures people for their faith (Uyghur Muslims for example) is a moral evil. Period.

The title of this thread is "GN calling out Linus..."

I'm pointing out that GN has absolutely no moral high ground. They are just as morally bankrupt for being so driven by profit that they will do business with China just to save a buck. There are lots of countries in the world to make things - hell a lot of them are China's neighbors. It's not like there aren't options, but saving some fraction of a cent per part means more to GN (and Linus) than not supporting the most evil regime active today...

The point is that GN calling LTT out is a massive joke. Who cares what GN thinks? They're no better.

I'm not defending LTT here. If anything I am pointing out that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Apparently this wisdom has been forgotten.

[Middcore]

6 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Yes.

Doing business with an evil regime that tortures people for their faith (Uyghur Muslims for example) is a moral evil. Period.

 

I hope you don't buy... literally almost any PC hardware then. 

[AnonymousGuy]

10 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

I'm pointing out that GN has absolutely no moral high ground. They are just as morally bankrupt for being so driven by profit that they will do business with China just to save a buck. There are lots of countries in the world to make things - hell a lot of them are China's neighbors. It's not like there aren't options, but saving some fraction of a cent per part means more to GN (and Linus) than not supporting the most evil regime active today...

This is you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

Quote

a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation.

 

Should we not listen to anything you say because you invariably have bought something produced in China too?

[TetraSky]

I still think the whole warranty drama was ridiculous and highly misunderstood by a subset of people unwilling to listen (just like the piracy controversy before it).

Linus explained himself and some of us were willing to listen instead of focusing on "no written warranty!? blasphemy!".
A warranty is only as good as the company wiling to stick to it and not find some way out of it. Having it written only gives you an extra easy way to take them to court over their words if they don't honor it. That's it. Had manufacturers decline me warranty service even though it should've been covered for ridiculous reasons like "we don't offer warranty in Canada" even though they sell products in Canada and it's not written in their warranty policy.

Now that LMG has made a written warranty policy, there's still people complaining... Literally can't win. It's relatively on par with most other warranty, covers manufacturing defects but not the usual wear and tear. Perfectly normal things. Who bought the bag thinking they could damage/modify it and expect to still have a warranty??? Weird how Steve makes it sound like just because Linus said he stood behind his product 100%, that somehow it meant you could throw your bag in a shredder and still have a warranty or something. Unreasonable. Of course it wouldn't be covered no matter what Linus said.

(and the Trust Me Bro shirt was made out of a request they got on Twitter about it)

But I do agree that they should be considered like any other manufacturer when it comes to their products.

[OrdinaryPhil]

3 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

I hope you don't buy... literally almost any PC hardware then. 

You'd be surprised how much is made in Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.

That's a lazy excuse.

And yes, but current build has ZERO components from China. It isn't even that hard to do.

My NZXT Case is made in Vietnam, the board and CPU cooler are from Taiwan, the CPU is from Vietnam, the SSD is from Korea, etc...

[OrdinaryPhil]

1 minute ago, AnonymousGuy said:

This is you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

 

Should we not listen to anything you say because you invariably have bought something produced in China too?

Are you six years old?

"listen to anything I say"... SMH

Listen to whatever you want, but understand that I don't have a moral high ground either. I'm not coming from some lofty position saying that Linus is a bad boy and I can't treat him like a friend the way that Steve is. What a D-bag.

[Shzzit]

Seems like someone’s posting with multi accounts lol.  People are to sensitive now days

[Azryu]

Mad props to Steve for his coverage. Mad props to Linus for not at all inhibiting Luke's ability to speak his mind, and for speaking his own (even though I suppose I disagree, all arguments considered... not that I felt too strongly about this to begin with). Mad props to Luke for being 100% based.

[MartinTheActor]

I worry that this whole saga is just more evidence building that shows how out of touch the company (or maybe just the CEO) has become. I've felt this for quite a while now. Look, when it comes to reviewing computer components on a user level, I will consider LMG's results. It's a field that they know and have been trading in for a very long time now. Likewise, I've grown quite fond of the short circuit format and pretty much every one of the SC videos not hosted by Linus. That first look, first impression style works well as a substitute for products that you can no longer go and see in stores. I'm all for it. Likewise Mac Address. I'm not an Apple person at all. I just don't 'get' apple as a brand and don't see how their products are particularly desirable. That said, the way it's hosted and written makes for a lot of really engaging content.

Problem comes though that Linus started as 'one of us' for lack of a better term. A tech enthusiast working an ordinary job. At the point that LTT began the content was relatable because it felt almost a discussion with another person as interested in a subject as you are. The points of commonality between Linus and the audience members were quite numerous. 

The problem is as LTT and now LMG as a group of companies have begun to succeed in ways I doubt anyone would've forseen years ago...Linus is no longer just another person interested in tech. He's the CEO of a rather substantial company with international recognition. My assessment, such as anyone can ever really make an assessment based off a public persona...is that Linus still believes that he is just another person interested in technology. 

That is the ultimate downside, and why it appears that Linus seemed to be surprised by the backlash on this warranty issue. Though Linus' position has moved from 'I'm just a tech enthusiast' to 'CEO of a big company' his mindset might not have shifted. He isn't able to relate in the same way that he once could've to that 18 year old just trying to build a PC anymore. Social dynamics have shifted with time and the path once open to someone like Linus, isn't open to the 18 year old of today. 

Whatever the reason truly behind it. I actually do respect GN for their stance. I'd hope too that they'd also treat other techtubers in the same way (MKBHD, JayzTwoCents and the like). When looking at a backpack I chose Samsonite in part because of their customer service and proven reliability. I bought from a UK store known as John Lewis which has a fantastic customer and post sales support reputation and delivery. When asking the prices that LTTStore are asking for items...part of that equation really does become about the post-sales experience. 

 

2 hours ago, Middcore said:

The entire labs project doesn't really fit the narrative of Linus only being interested in shallow content that maximizes profit.

I've got to disagree here. There was a recent video that kinda showed just how bad labs could get. The dash cam rundown was problematic. Fact is, that LMG is not the expert in the field of insurance, or collision investigations. The writers of that video fixated on what was the best camera quality for the money. And sure, the real point they were making is how most dash cams use the same sensors and other internal components.

As a writer and teacher myself, the approach I would've taken is to call up an insurance company, call up law enforcement and ask what their expert recommend that members of the public ought to look for in a good dash cam. That way, there is actual expertise based of real experience which sets the baseline for the exploration of dash cam quality. Instead, what we got was someone on the LMG team bringing their own ideas of what makes a good dashcam without having first established that said person has the level of expertise to comment on dashcams and what makes them good or bad. 

Floatplane too has this issue. There is an assumption based off senior LMG staff's biases (and I worry hunches) that have led to the solution for those wishing to use a roku or firestick to be 'go to this random person's app'. It's the metaphorical equivalent to going to dodgy website to find that one piece of software you want. Sure you could do it, but the risk of compromise, data misuse, malware, and other issues is a legitimate concern.

My concern then about labs, based off of what appears to be Linus' growing detachment from the majority of users' needs and preferences is that his detachment will cause Labs to churn out content that is so substandard as to be useless. If the criteria by which something is being assessed is shallow, the content and results will also be shallow.

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Yes.

Doing business with an evil regime that tortures people for their faith (Uyghur Muslims for example) is a moral evil. Period.

The title of this thread is "GN calling out Linus..."

I'm pointing out that GN has absolutely no moral high ground. They are just as morally bankrupt for being so driven by profit that they will do business with China just to save a buck. There are lots of countries in the world to make things - hell a lot of them are China's neighbors. It's not like there aren't options, but saving some fraction of a cent per part means more to GN (and Linus) than not supporting the most evil regime active today...

The point is that GN calling LTT out is a massive joke. Who cares what GN thinks? They're no better.

I'm not defending LTT here. If anything I am pointing out that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Apparently this wisdom has been forgotten.

Should we start a list of the morally corrupt things that USA or Canada or any other country has done in the near recent term?

[OrdinaryPhil]

Just now, Blue4130 said:

Should we start a list of the morally corrupt things that USA or Canada or any other country has done in the near recent term?

Whataboutism?

Everyone does bad things. No one is perfect. But that's an excuse to do more bad things.

[IPD]

9 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Should we start a list of the morally corrupt things that USA or Canada or any other country has done in the near recent term?

You sound like Julian Assange.

 

Of course you can find FAR, FAR more dirty laundry on USA, Canada and most western countries.  Hard to keep that stuff hidden when freedom of the press is still a thing--even if the press is trying hard to make it not be so.

 

But for the sake of argument, here's a pretty compelling list of the 4th and 5th estate participants that keep getting 86'd from one of the more "closed" countries

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

 

 

[yolosnail]

2 hours ago, MartinTheActor said:

Floatplane too has this issue. There is an assumption based off senior LMG staff's biases (and I worry hunches) that have led to the solution for those wishing to use a roku or firestick to be 'go to this random person's app'. It's the metaphorical equivalent to going to dodgy website to find that one piece of software you want. Sure you could do it, but the risk of compromise, data misuse, malware, and other issues is a legitimate concern.

Regarding Floatplane apps, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a conscious decision to not develop them. Quite a number of people, myself included, just watch the videos on YouTube if they fancy watching them on TV, saving on bandwidth, and therefore saving money.

[Blue4130]

28 minutes ago, IPD said:

You sound like Julian Assange.

 

Of course you can find FAR, FAR more dirty laundry on USA, Canada and most western countries.  Hard to keep that stuff hidden when freedom of the press is still a thing--even if the press is trying hard to make it not be so.

 

But for the sake of argument, here's a pretty compelling list of the 4th and 5th estate participants that keep getting 86'd from one of the more "closed" countries

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

 

 

This is getting too political, I am out of this conversation for fear of getting the thread locked. 

[Shzzit]

56 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Should we start a list of the morally corrupt things that USA or Canada or any other country has done in the near recent term?

So most of his stuff is made in China? 8(.

[Ultraforce]

3 hours ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Yes.

Doing business with an evil regime that tortures people for their faith (Uyghur Muslims for example) is a moral evil. Period.

The title of this thread is "GN calling out Linus..."

I'm pointing out that GN has absolutely no moral high ground. They are just as morally bankrupt for being so driven by profit that they will do business with China just to save a buck. There are lots of countries in the world to make things - hell a lot of them are China's neighbors. It's not like there aren't options, but saving some fraction of a cent per part means more to GN (and Linus) than not supporting the most evil regime active today...

The point is that GN calling LTT out is a massive joke. Who cares what GN thinks? They're no better.

I'm not defending LTT here. If anything I am pointing out that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Apparently this wisdom has been forgotten.

The discussion is calling out in relationship to warranty. A hired killer could call out another hired killer for saying hey if you are paid to kill someone you should make sure the death isn't traced to your client, you failed to do this once, so now I will guarantee that for the 5 years after the death I will do my best to keep you from being convicted of calling the hit as long as you follow the contract about your role.

Gamer's Nexus had a warranty on their higher end merchandise and extended it in response and explained hey given the size of LMG we will treat them professionally like any normal company and not have kiddy hands just because we are personal friends with the owners.

They didn't even really talk about morality in the call out. You can be morally bankrupt and say that hey this company not offering a warranty for a boutique product in a field where warranties are standard is kind of weird, and them selling a shirt to make 5 or 6 figures joking about their response is kind of not recommended from a reporting on a business standpoint.

[OrdinaryPhil]

7 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

The discussion is calling out in relationship to warranty. A hired killer could call out another hired killer for saying hey if you are paid to kill someone you should make sure the death isn't traced to your client, you failed to do this once, so now I will guarantee that for the 5 years after the death I will do my best to keep you from being convicted of calling the hit as long as you follow the contract about your role.

Boy allegory is really a dead art.
 

9 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

Gamer's Nexus had a warranty on their higher end merchandise and extended it in response and explained hey given the size of LMG we will treat them professionally like any normal company and not have kiddy hands just because we are personal friends with the owners.

Firstly, there is no such thing as "high end" in either of their marketplaces. They are selling t-shirts and desk mats. I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, just pointing out that the whole of that market is all cheaply produced. You can buy cotton shirts in bulk for $6 a pop from most textile manufacturers and printing is a very inexpensive process. There are half a dozen "custom shirt printing" stores within 5 miles of me in my small mid-western town and I can both buy a shirt in generic S-M-L sizes and print whatever I want on it for $12. The markup on these items is HUGE.

For even a medium-quality item it needs to be at least tailored to my measurements, not some "off-the-rack" size. And even those shirts are like... what, $25. Hell AMAZON is now doing custom tailored shirts for $25. I think it's under the "made for you" brand name.

To be a "high end" shirt would mean it is both custom tailored to your exact measurements, and is made of premium materials, not ployester-blends that wear like a sweaty trash bag.

And for the record, I'm not some 1%er who only wears brand name crap or spends $300 on my shirts. I'm pretty sure the most expensive shirt I own is like $60 and I'd never purchase that wasn't "made for me" if I am going to wear it on my body.

 

57 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

They didn't even really talk about morality in the call out. You can be morally bankrupt and say that hey this company not offering a warranty for a boutique product in a field where warranties are standard is kind of weird, and them selling a shirt to make 5 or 6 figures joking about their response is kind of not recommended from a reporting on a business standpoint.

They don't have to announce "hey we're talking about ethics and morality now!". The topic makes it unavoidable. Steve outright side he disapproved of Linus' actions, and that is why he no longer wants to treat him "like a friend" and instead like "other large companies". There is no way to frame that as anything other than a moral judgement, which Steve himself is in no position to make. At best it smacks of hypocrisy, and at worst it looks like Steve being petty about what he sees as "the competition".

At the end of the day these are two total strangers online trying to make a buck. I don't know or trust either of them, but Steve making a video about it is monetizing the situation in exactly the same way that Linus' "Trust Me Bro" shirts are.

Calling Linus out over this just makes him look petty and clownish.