Moving out of the US

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

winter is like 8 moths of the year and -35 at its peek... unless you go there to make moeny dont... rent even not even cheap... have to pay a moth rent in damage deposit as well. if you like hunting, and stuff like that i guess its ok...

Paying a months rent for damage is pretty normal isn't it? As for winter, thats the draw for many. I love Saskatchewan winters.

[donal McScrote]

Ireland easy to get into on a work visa, Climate not too cold in winter nor too hot in summer but it does rain quite a bit.  32 counties Island varied topography outside of the cities of which there are only 11 Dublin+ Belfast being the main cities.  Roughly Ireland is the same size as the state of Maine but the topography is very varied, Mountains sea forests glens sandy golden beaches you name it we've got it except for skiing. 

 

Lots to do and see on a holiday for free especially fishing, no permits needed for any sea fishing in Ireland as long as it's not game fish (salmon and sea trout)  Jobs in the commerical and IT sections pretty decent, infrastructure so-so.  Film making AV production game developing it's starting to take off.  John Romero formerly of id software relocated to Galway, Microsoft Europe I think are still headquartered in Dublin.  Belfast has Price waterhouse coopers and other big companies.

 

[wasab]

13 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I dont blame you. If I could Id probably move out of the US as well. 

America is a big place however, literally 85+% the size of entire Europe. You can get all sorts of climate, weather, and enviorment by just moving bewteen the states, from troical pacific island like Haiwaii to tundra like Alaska or sunshrine tropics like Florida. 

[Blue4130]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

America is a big place however, literally 85+% the size of entire Europe. You can get all sorts of climate, weather, and enviorment by just moving bewteen the states, from troical pacific island like Haiwaii to tundra like Alaska or sunshrine tropics like Florida. 

Haha I doubt the weather is the reason why people move out of the country...

[Donut417]

13 minutes ago, wasab said:

America is a big place however, literally 85+% the size of entire Europe. You can get all sorts of climate, weather, and enviorment by just moving bewteen the states, from troical pacific island like Haiwaii to tundra like Alaska or sunshrine tropics like Florida. 

Has nothing to do with the weather. The US is a lost cause. 

[dalekphalm]

9 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

winter is like 8 moths of the year and -35 at its peek... unless you go there to make moeny dont... rent even not even cheap... have to pay a moth rent in damage deposit as well. if you like hunting, and stuff like that i guess its ok...

You might be talking about Alberta as a whole, or perhaps Edmonton or other more northern communities, but Calgary is quite far south in Alberta. In terms of average weather, it has a relatively mild winter compared to many cities in Canada.

7 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Paying a months rent for damage is pretty normal isn't it? As for winter, thats the draw for many. I love Saskatchewan winters.

Depends on the location. In Ontario, for example, a Landlord can request a "Last Month Rent Deposit" upon signing the lease. This is literally just what it says - it's the last month rent payment for whenever you eventually move out. This deposit can only be used to pay for the last month's rent - it cannot be used to cover damage done to the unit.

 

This is collectively called "First and Last" commonly here - you pay the first - and last - month of rent upfront upon signing the lease.

 

Damage Deposits are illegal in Ontario.

[cmndr]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:24 AM, BuckGup said:

My main points of interest are the climate, cost of living, and availability of tech related jobs.

Usually people try to move to the US for opportunities in tech, NOT out of it. (for what it's worth I had a Bulgarian worker... he moved to the US for a reason)

 

If you're reasonably well credentialed, going to a lower cost of living place and working in tech usually means a 30-80% cut in pay. If you want similar pay, your only other choice is Zurich, which has a CoL similar to somewhere like SF but more snow.

Pay for a mid-career software engineer in San Francisco - $250-400k a year.
Pay for a mid-career software engineer in Vancouver - $120-150k a year. Similar story in Ireland and the UK. It's VERY easy to lose $100,000/year in pay by saving $10-20k a year in living expenses.

 

From a pure "easiness" perspective, it's probably easier to find "cheap" places in the US and to get a remote job. Think remote job in Georgia or Florida by the coast.

 

On 6/27/2022 at 9:24 AM, BuckGup said:

 The last isn't huge as everything is moving to remote now.

It might shift with time but if your goal is to live in Spain you should expect to be paid like a Spaniard.

 

I'd only consider this if you have something like $1 million saved up and are moving somewhere to semi-retire.

 

[maartendc]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:58 AM, Blue4130 said:

You know that moving to another country isn't as simple as just packing up and going right? You will need to get the job first and get visa sponsorship to begin the paperwork. I can't think of any country that will let you move there long term without major hassle. (point of reference - I've lived overseas for 12 years now)

This 100%!

[Rauten]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:56 PM, Blue4130 said:

But you specifically can't work on that visa. I was looking at residence permit. That is what you need to actually work.

And the second link is for an employee's visa.

 

Again, can you please specify where are you getting your information from? Can you please provide links?

[Blue4130]

40 minutes ago, Rauten said:

And the second link is for an employee's visa.

 

Again, can you please specify where are you getting your information from? Can you please provide links?

Ok, When I say work, I mean freelance / contract work. That employee's visa is specifically for working at a spain based company.

 

I am getting my information from a spanish immigration company. It may not be the embassy/consulate, but there whole business is helping people immigrate. Trust it or not, they are usually pretty reliable places for information.

[Rauten]

23 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Ok, When I say work, I mean freelance / contract work. That employee's visa is specifically for working at a spain based company.

That'd be the Self-employed work visa:

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/washington/en/ServiciosConsulares/Paginas/Consular/Visado-de-trabajo-por-cuenta-propia.aspx

Which doesn't really specify an amount; it only says: "documents accrediting that the applicant has sufficient financial means to carry out the planned investment, or a commitment by financial or other institutions to provide support."

23 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

I am getting my information from a spanish immigration company. It may not be the embassy/consulate, but there whole business is helping people immigrate. Trust it or not, they are usually pretty reliable places for information.

According to your profile, you're in Beijing? Do note that entry requirements for Chinese people may be different (probably harder/higher) than for U.S. people, as the U.S. and Spain consider each other allies.

[Blue4130]

43 minutes ago, Rauten said:

That'd be the Self-employed work visa:

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/washington/en/ServiciosConsulares/Paginas/Consular/Visado-de-trabajo-por-cuenta-propia.aspx

Which doesn't really specify an amount; it only says: "documents accrediting that the applicant has sufficient financial means to carry out the planned investment, or a commitment by financial or other institutions to provide support."

According to your profile, you're in Beijing? Do note that entry requirements for Chinese people may be different (probably harder/higher) than for U.S. people, as the U.S. and Spain consider each other allies.

I'm not Chinese. I am an expat who has dealt with living in other countries than my own for quite a while now.

[wasab]

Generally, if you have money, there is always legal ways for you to emigrate to any other countries. Investing a few, tens, hundreds millions dollars to set up a factory somewhere that creates local jobs wouldve already qualify you, at the very minimum, for a bussiness visa of some kind. The only exception to this is if you are somehow blacklisted. The Russian kleptocrats certainly would not be emigrating to any western countries without a set of new identity for example. 

[BuckGup]

18 minutes ago, wasab said:

Generally, if you have money, there is always legal ways for you to emigrate to any other countries. Investing a few, tens, hundreds millions dollars to set up a factory somewhere that creates local jobs wouldve already qualify you, at the very minimum, for a bussiness visa of some kind. The only exception to this is if you are somehow blacklisted. The Russian kleptocrats certainly would not be emigrating to any western countries without a set of new identity for example. 

It may be far fetched but I found a vineyard in Croatia for $97,000 I could buy then technically have a business or property

[StalePie42]

11 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

It may be far fetched but I found a vineyard in Croatia for $97,000 I could buy then technically have a business or property

Careful buying property when you do not speak the language.

[mr moose]

Come to Australia,  99% of what you hear is just wrong and for the genuine flaws we do have they won't kill you.  Also the climate is excellent, nearly all jobs pay enough to survive and when hit shits the fan there's nearly always a handful of people willing to help you out. 

[Monkey Dust]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:55 AM, mr moose said:

99% of what you hear is just wrong and for the genuine flaws we do have they won't kill you.

Unlike 99% of the wildlife, which will. (joking, mostly)

 

[IRMacGuyver]

So there's one HUGE reason not to move out of the US.  They expect you to pay income tax for six years after you move out of the country and file to renounce your citizenship.  The IRS will try to extradite you if they think you owe enough taxes.  Research the difficulties in being a tax exile before making the move.  It's not just as simple as moving out.  For one you have to convince the other country to accept you as a citizen and many countries have strict laws on that.  

[AcidFuchsin]

Something to consider: If the grass on the other side is greener, it's probably because it gets more shit.

 

I lived and worked in France for two years, knowing it was a temporary thing. I can speak French, I "know" the culture, I have no regrets doing it. But boy am I glad I didn't have to emigrate there permanently. You're considering climate and cost of living, but have you considered administrative burden? Try figuring out an entirely new administrative system, where to go for taxes, healthcare and city admin. As a foreigner, you might need to interact with a specific office that is hundreds of kilometers away, simply because there is only one for the entire country. You can end up in endless loops where you need one thing to get another, but you need the other to get the one.

[dalekphalm]

21 hours ago, IRMacGuyver said:

So there's one HUGE reason not to move out of the US.  They expect you to pay income tax for six years after you move out of the country and file to renounce your citizenship.

(Emphasis mine)

 

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not aware of any rules or laws in the US that would force you to renounce your citizenship just by being an expat living abroad.

[IkeaGnome]

21 hours ago, IRMacGuyver said:

They expect you to pay income tax for six years after you move out of the country and file to renounce your citizenship.

Where'd you see six years? We're always required to pay taxes unless you renounce citizenship. There's ways to claim your overseas taxes as long as you made the money and lived overseas though and pay almost no taxes state side.

[IkeaGnome]

19 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

(Emphasis mine)

 

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not aware of any rules or laws in the US that would force you to renounce your citizenship just by being an expat living abroad.

For what it's worth, it's really not as hard as they seem to think it is. I'll use my example. I'm getting ready to move to Norway. I can live there for up to 2 years and not have to pay taxes there as long as I'm in that country for less than 185 days a year. I work 14 days then have 14 off. Add 2 days of travel time in and I'll be in that country for 12 of every 28 days. For that time, I pay taxes here like regular. Once I'm tired of the commute, or she's tired of me making this commute, I quit working here and get a job there. 

At that point, I 1)Live over seas 2)My income is overseas 3)My income is in foreign currency and 4)Am still a US Citizen (not giving that up so that kids are automatically dual citizens and to keep my VA Benefits.

There's 2 ways to go about paying taxes when you live overseas and your income is over seas. You can either do a regular tax return and deduct your foreign taxes on FOREIGN made income, or if you make under the $USD threshold in a year go with Foreign Earned Tax Exclusions. Between the housing deductions and Foreign Earned Income you pay virtually no taxes state side.

I'd like to point out that in this example with the maximum exclusion being $41,158 for 2022. This would put you in the 12% tax bracket. You'd pay $4,9538.96 in USA federal taxes going this route. 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad-filing-requirements

 

Also note: If you don't pay your taxes while you live overseas 2 things can happen. 1) Your passport gets revoked. It's no longer valid. 2) If you live in a country with an extradition treaty they can extradite you to the states for punishment.

Obligatory "Sorry for double post, but I wanted to put more links and effort into this post"

[dalekphalm]

27 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

For what it's worth, it's really not as hard as they seem to think it is. I'll use my example. I'm getting ready to move to Norway. I can live there for up to 2 years and not have to pay taxes there as long as I'm in that country for less than 185 days a year. I work 14 days then have 14 off. Add 2 days of travel time in and I'll be in that country for 12 of every 28 days. For that time, I pay taxes here like regular. Once I'm tired of the commute, or she's tired of me making this commute, I quit working here and get a job there. 

At that point, I 1)Live over seas 2)My income is overseas 3)My income is in foreign currency and 4)Am still a US Citizen (not giving that up so that kids are automatically dual citizens and to keep my VA Benefits.

There's 2 ways to go about paying taxes when you live overseas and your income is over seas. You can either do a regular tax return and deduct your foreign taxes on FOREIGN made income, or if you make under the $USD threshold in a year go with Foreign Earned Tax Exclusions. Between the housing deductions and Foreign Earned Income you pay virtually no taxes state side.

I'd like to point out that in this example with the maximum exclusion being $41,158 for 2022. This would put you in the 12% tax bracket. You'd pay $4,9538.96 in USA federal taxes going this route. 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad-filing-requirements

 

Also note: If you don't pay your taxes while you live overseas 2 things can happen. 1) Your passport gets revoked. It's no longer valid. 2) If you live in a country with an extradition treaty they can extradite you to the states for punishment.

Obligatory "Sorry for double post, but I wanted to put more links and effort into this post"

Great write up - but my point was specifically about him saying an expat will need to renounce their citizenship (or perhaps they were trying to say that the IRS/US Government will try and pressure you into renouncing citizenship).

 

I agree with you btw (not an American, but it would apply to me too) - there is very rarely ever a good reason to give up your birth citizenship - especially a country like America.

 

We Canadians like to shit on America for fun a lot (mostly in good faith) - but realistically, despite all the problems America has (every country has problems), you'd be an idiot to give up American citizenship if you had it, unless it was the only way.

 

For me, if I ever move to another country - especially if I have kids there, I would never in a million years consider giving up my Canadian citizenship. I would want to keep it for my own personal benefit and reasons, but especially for kids, I would be doing them a disservice by not allowing them to gain citizenship to Canada through me.

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Great write up - but my point was specifically about him saying an expat will need to renounce their citizenship (or perhaps they were trying to say that the IRS/US Government will try and pressure you into renouncing citizenship).

I probably should have done a bit of a TL:DR. That was about him saying an expat will need to renounce their citizenship as well and the "6 year" tax thing they said. The 6 year rule is not true at all. The only way for an expat to not have any tax obligations here in the states would be to renounce their citizenship. It's not like they "pressure" you to renounce your citizenship.

 

What I'm guessing happened and how that person got that view. A few expats somewhere thought they didn't owe taxes in the States anymore. They didn't pay because they didn't know. Around the 6 year mark, Sam came knocking for back taxes. Renounce your citizenship and now you're not "liable" for back taxes until you try to enter the States and a warrant gets served.

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I agree with you btw (not an American, but it would apply to me too) - there is very rarely ever a good reason to give up your birth citizenship - especially a country like America.

 

We Canadians like to shit on America for fun a lot (mostly in good faith) - but realistically, despite all the problems America has (every country has problems), you'd be an idiot to give up American citizenship if you had it, unless it was the only way.

Regardless of where we ended up, her and I would both keep birth citizenship. She wanted to move here originally. Once she started following US news more and more, she gave in and wants to stay there now. Win for me. That being said, children having dual citizenship is a MUST. I don't want to have to go through with applying for Visas and all that just to go visit family or send them off to their grandparents' houses for the summer. 

Then there's the "Murican!" in me. If I don't give up my citizenship, I can keep my firearms at a family member's house for in case her and I ever decide to move here later on. Then once I have my hunting license and all that there, my rifle is legal there with a different scope. So there's that too. Then VA, because that would pretty much pay our housing expenses there and the taxes I'll owe in the states. The rest is just taxed in NO. 

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

but realistically, despite all the problems America has (every country has problems), you'd be an idiot to give up American citizenship if you had it, unless it was the only way.

What I will say on this is the "stigma" around being an American in other countries. We're dumb. We're uncultured. We don't know how other places live, and don't know what's an "insult" in their country that wouldn't be in our own. Especially after this last trip over there I'm noticing that more and more. My dad and step mom came over for a concert and a road trip. That was a mess. They basically only go to resort towns in Mexico. They couldn't understand that people work normal working hours there and stores shut down much earlier than we're used to. Stores closed on Sundays etc. Couldn't plan around that to save their lives. 

That being said, as an Alaskan, sometimes I'll say I'm more Canadian than American just to avoid the "dumb American" stereotype. 

16 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I would be doing them a disservice by not allowing them to gain citizenship to Canada through me.

This is the big one. Say when they grow up and are old enough to be doing their own thing. They decide to go to school here, or move here to be nearer to family (I've got a large family but hers is small) it'd be a royal pain if they aren't dual citizens. It just opens up a lot more for them. 

[wasab]

USA is the only fck up country that will tax you even if you live/work overseas. Know Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister? He had dual American citizenship but only lived there as a child for 5 years. Uncle Sam's IRS later came knocking at his door with a tax bill for some house he purchased in Great Britain. He renounced his America citizenship soon after. 
 

11 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

What I will say on this is the "stigma" around being an American in other countries.

Just pretend you are Canadian. Works wonders if you traveling to countries like say Iran.