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A KDE Developers Response Videos To LTT's Linux Challenge

Uttamattamakin
By Uttamattamakin
in Tech News
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Posted
On 2/9/2022 at 2:22 PM, jagdtigger said:

Im 99% sure the issue wasnt linux but you... (If this were an actual issue with ubuntu reddit vouldve blown up a long time ago.)

The more time passes the more I think the main difference between Windows and Linux is that Windows users will blame Windows for everything, even when it's the users fault, and Linux users will blame the user for everything, even when it's Linux's (or at least the distro/front end) fault.

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Posted
On 2/9/2022 at 4:37 AM, J-from-Nucleon said:

So why exactly are we revisiting a month-old thread?

Because I clearly have a crystal ball.

On 12/10/2021 at 2:17 AM, Kisai said:

This is always pointed out, and the linux zealots will just huff about it, not realizing they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

Exhibit A:

 

On 2/9/2022 at 1:58 AM, mr moose said:

 

 

The only way you could link these two is if you are claiming Linux is intentionally made to be problematic in order to make it unattractive to aggressive take overs. But this ignores the facts that are:

 

 

Exhibit B:

On 2/9/2022 at 4:30 AM, Master Disaster said:

 

This seems like PEBKAC to me, my personal Arch install

 

Both of these posters decided they should post to a stale thread for what reason? To do exactly what I said they would. 

 

 

 

I'll summarize this again, and then maybe a moderator should lock the thread.

 

People who advocate for Linux, pretty much find any excuse for excusing the way Linux behaves poorly, blaming the user, blaming third party developers, deflecting blame away from Linux unless the software wasn't GPL, then it can be blamed.

 

It's a free OS, and Linux people routinely chase people off the OS by going "oh you're just not smart enough to use it". Many OSS software developers would rather pick a fight with the user and then chuck the manual at their head, which may as well be written in Klingon.

 

As Linus of LTT demonstrated. You can't do much out of the box with Linux without wasting substantial amounts of time, and having people be absolutely awful about you doing it wrong.

 

Read the comments.

https://github.com/glibg10b/ltt-linux-challenge-issues

https://arewelinusyet.com/

 

If a tech-advocate can not do things that "just works" on MacOS and Windows on an out-of-the-box install of any flavor of Linux, either they are using the wrong flavor of Linux, or that flavor of Linux has deliberately picked an obtuse way of doing things.

 

 

Linux advocates can do with some humility and admission that their OS has always sucked as a desktop because their developers are a bunch of cats who can't be herded. As a Desktop OS, it is an OS for people who are pretentious and want to pretend they're smart for having installed the thing.

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Because I clearly have a crystal ball.

Exhibit A:

 

Exhibit B:

 

Both of these posters decided they should post to a stale thread for what reason? To do exactly what I said they would. 

 

I'll summarize this again, and then maybe a moderator should lock the thread.

 

People who advocate for Linux, pretty much find any excuse for excusing the way Linux behaves poorly, blaming the user, blaming third party developers, deflecting blame away from Linux unless the software wasn't GPL, then it can be blamed.

 

It's a free OS, and Linux people routinely chase people off the OS by going "oh you're just not smart enough to use it". Many OSS software developers would rather pick a fight with the user and then chuck the manual at their head, which may as well be written in Klingon.

 

As Linus of LTT demonstrated. You can't do much out of the box with Linux without wasting substantial amounts of time, and having people be absolutely awful about you doing it wrong.

 

Read the comments.

https://github.com/glibg10b/ltt-linux-challenge-issues

https://arewelinusyet.com/

 

If a tech-advocate can not do things that "just works" on MacOS and Windows on an out-of-the-box install of any flavor of Linux, either they are using the wrong flavor of Linux, or that flavor of Linux has deliberately picked an obtuse way of doing things.

 

Linux advocates can do with some humility and admission that their OS has always sucked as a desktop because their developers are a bunch of cats who can't be herded. As a Desktop OS, it is an OS for people who are pretentious and want to pretend they're smart for having installed the thing.

 

Wow, can  you even see the bottom of your strawman from all the way up on top of it?

 

First of all, go check my post history and you'll notice I spend a lot of my time offering genuine help to Linux newcomers. Honestly though, I think you're right on this point, yeah an awful lot of Linux diehards are asshats about it. Luckily for members of this forum though, those users don't really seem to exist here.

 

Second how about you respond to any of my points instead of ignoring them and going off on a tangent. I used my install as an example of how your statement was demonstrably false. I don't advocate Linux to anybody, people should use some combination of what best suits their needs and what they're comfortable with.

 

The major problem with your take is its 100% subjective. To you Linux might be obtuse and difficult however to me, its incredibly granular and gives me total control over my computer (and I get that's also my opinion).

 

And please stop focusing on Linus' problem as your shining example of how Linux sucks. It was a bug that happened to be publicised in a very unique way, has now been patched in 3 different layers and if it had happened in any other way outside of being caught on camera by a YouTuber with 10m subs then it wouldn't even be relevant to the discussion.

 

Edit - Forgot to finish with the hot take, all OSes suck in some way and are amazing in others. No OS is perfect, macOS is basically Fisher-PriceOS, Windows BSODs every time someone sneezes and has more malware than genuine software and Linux is obtuse by design.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

macOS is basically Fisher-PriceOS, Windows BSODs every time someone sneezes and has more malware than genuine software and Linux is obtuse by design.

beOS, reactOS, etc. sitting in a corner: "Shhh! Be quiet, maybe they won't notice us"

/s

"A high ideal missed by a little, is far better than low ideal that is achievable, yet far less effective"

 

If you think I'm wrong, correct me. If I've offended you in some way tell me what it is and how I can correct it. I want to learn, and along the way one can make mistakes; Being wrong helps you learn what's right.

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Posted
8 hours ago, Error 52 said:

and Linux users will blame the user for everything, even when it's Linux's (or at least the distro/front end) fault.

Yeah, because blindly following any random guide isnt widespread AF..... (just like on windows) Linux breaking things is actually pretty rare unless you run bleeding edge but thats your choice....

/edit
And just as a sidenote windows had more severe bugs than a missing GUI. Wiped files and partitions are way worse in terms of restore (if its even possible).

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Posted
On 2/9/2022 at 6:37 AM, J-from-Nucleon said:

So why exactly are we revisiting a month-old thread?

 

It seems counterproductive but when humans are bored they will turn to conflict and pain to stimulate their brains.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
10 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

It seems counterproductive but when humans are bored they will turn to conflict and pain to stimulate their brains.

Damn son, you should write that down 🤣

Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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Posted
6 hours ago, Kisai said:

As a Desktop OS, it is an OS for people who are pretentious and want to pretend they're smart for having installed the thing.

AntiqueUnluckyCopperhead-size_restricted

VGhlIHF1aWV0ZXIgeW91IGJlY29tZSwgdGhlIG1vcmUgeW91IGFyZSBhYmxlIHRvIGhlYXIu

^ not a crypto wallet

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Posted
7 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

 

 

Both of these posters decided they should post to a stale thread for what reason? To do exactly what I said they would. 

 

 

No, what actually happened was that the thread popped up to the top of the news forum and as I was refreshing myself on what the latest posters was referring to I saw you made a confusing post regarding the alleged motivation for the state of Linux.  Instead of addressing the point you simply use my post as an example of some irrational concept regarding why people post. 

 

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Posted
On 2/11/2022 at 8:05 AM, Master Disaster said:

 

First of all, go check my post history and you'll notice I spend a lot of my time offering genuine help to Linux newcomers. Honestly though, I think you're right on this point, yeah an awful lot of Linux diehards are asshats about it. Luckily for members of this forum though, those users don't really seem to exist here.

Look, I treat every poster in every thread as though I've not read their posts outside of the thread, because if I made a decision to reply, it's based on the current context of the thread, and not some argument that was done and then someone decided to dig up the dead horse to beat it up again.

 

Linux diehards are everywhere in the tech sphere, and a small, vocal, arrogant subset of them feel the need to defend Linux's honor, everywhere, when it has none to defend. It's a Free OS, you do not have to use it. It doesn't become worse because your favorite tech youtuber couldn't do something.

 

I've gone from thinking Linux might be a useful tool in 199x to knowing it will never be "the year of the linux desktop" in 2009. You know why?

 

Because Linux diehards routinely "have no social tact", and have chased pretty much everyone remotely interested in the OS away from the OS if it wasn't forced on them (eg working at Google.) You curate the audience you want to have and Linus Torvalds curated an audience of absolutely militant snobby nerds who treat others with disdain for even asking a question.

 

 

Quote 
This is where the "look yourself in the mirror" moment comes in.

So here we are, me finally on the one hand realizing that it wasn't
actually funny or a good sign that I was hoping to just skip the
yearly kernel summit entirely, and on the other hand realizing that I
really had been ignoring some fairly deep-seated feelings in the
community.

It's one thing when you can ignore these issues.  Usually it’s just
something I didn't want to deal with.

This is my reality.  I am not an emotionally empathetic kind of person
and that probably doesn't come as a big surprise to anybody.  Least of
all me.  The fact that I then misread people and don't realize (for
years) how badly I've judged a situation and contributed to an
unprofessional environment is not good.

This week people in our community confronted me about my lifetime of
not understanding emotions.  My flippant attacks in emails have been
both unprofessional and uncalled for.  Especially at times when I made
it personal.  In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to me.
I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry.

 

This is the kind of thing the Linux Community is responsible for. Maybe things will change, but I doubt they ever will, and because of that, I doubt a "Desktop Linux OS" will ever become mainstream. Because that means helping people who can't understand the manual. It will remain the niche of people who are unable to ever read the room, and keep chasing people away from it by demanding they do obtuse, hard to follow, error-prone things using instructions written by programmers that make assumptions about the level of computer expertise.

 

 

On 2/11/2022 at 8:05 AM, Master Disaster said:

Second how about you respond to any of my points

 

Because this thread has run it's course. It was a MISTAKE on your part and Moose's part that you didn't read the post that bumped the thread, and instead you and Moose decided to start the arguments over again by replying to me.

 

I quite frankly, do not care if someone runs Linux, but Linux "as a desktop" has thus far been a colossal failure in the public eye, and even when nice nerds like Linus Sebastian try to produce a video on how to use Linux as an alternative, the same Linux nerds tear him down too.

 

Point being. If you have a knee-jerk reaction to respond to Linux criticism with hostility, then you're part of the problem. You do not produce a reaction video and go "*eye roll* because it's supposed to do that", that's not reading the room. That's doing exactly what I said would happen.

 

You can pretty much expect someone, has not read the thread, will inevitably respond to your post, just to pick a fight with you, because you said something negative about Linux, and then they will passive-aggressively imply that you're the idiot for having not following some 200 page tutorial on how to just bring up the GUI. Personally I do not care. Linux lost the battle for the desktop 13 years ago when everything went mobile.StatCounter-os_combined-ww-monthly-202101-202201.thumb.png.e6369a575a77e2bc4ffa461272a82182.png

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

 

You know who has been winning against Windows? Apple.

StatCounter-os_combined-ww-monthly-200901-202201.thumb.png.e7196ce15368aaefc1c8d26dfffcc04f.png

Those numbers move lock-step together. Linux? Flat, and has remained flat.

 

What does Apple do better than Linux? Well for one, Apple goes out of it's way to make things work the way users expect them to, out of the box. The MacOS experience has been essentially the same, far more consistent than Windows has ever been. Everything is in familiar places since at least 2003.

 

Windows? Good grief, some of these changes like trying to do away with the start menu (Windows 8), or Control Panel (Windows 10) and Device manager (Windows 11), have made things much, much harder to do on Windows. For what purpose? Hell if I know. Maybe they're trying to copy the MacOS experience, and learned nothing about why you don't make changes to the UX.

 

But Linux? Herding cats. 

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Kisai said:

You know who has been winning against Windows? Apple.

StatCounter-os_combined-ww-monthly-200901-202201.thumb.png.e7196ce15368aaefc1c8d26dfffcc04f.png

Those numbers move lock-step together. Linux? Flat, and has remained flat.

 

 

 

You know that the number of desktops is dropping,  so If mac maintains zero growth in actual numbers their percentage will go up.

 

image.png.9f15cd2e5797f6db98a066e7404390a2.png

 

From 2010 til 2020 a very steady decline in PC sales, then covid hit and everyone bought laptops to work/school from home.  It is way more probable that windows lost market share to ios/android in phone/tablet sales as many people no longer need a desktop.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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