CD Project Red expects Cyberpunk2077 will eventually be a "very good game"

[D13H4RD]

The problem for CDPR is something much harder to patch up than a video game; their reputation.

 

Simply put, it's in the shitter. Regaining public trust is much harder to do than fixing up a game that was launched in a knowingly poor state. 

[GhostRoadieBL]

6 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Considering CDPR are self published, who would that be?

Nvidia and AMD both had staff on it

Then Digital Scapes Studios Ltd, Microsoft, Sony, GOG, Bandai, warner brothers, Kojima productions, Porsche, Epic games... The list is very long when you look into game development partnerships.

[JZStudios]

17 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

Nvidia and AMD both had staff on it

Then Digital Scapes Studios Ltd, Microsoft, Sony, GOG, Bandai, warner brothers, Kojima productions, Porsche, Epic games... The list is very long when you look into game development partnerships.

What? None of that is true, nor sensical.

[GhostRoadieBL]

23 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

What? None of that is true, nor sensical.

https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/cyberpunk-2077/credits

 

Cyberpunk 2077 credits.

[williamcll]

Well the launch wasn't as bad as no man's sky but look at how long it took them to fix the game.

[tikker]

14 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Witcher 3 improved rather than fixed. The initial release of Witcher 3 was fine, and far more stable than anything Bethesda has done. The post release stuff of Witcher 3 was some UI and QOL changes with minor bugfixes.

 

2077 is straight broken, it's been a year since launch (HOLY SHIT!) and it's still not much better. Keeping in mind that they started developing 2077, paused, made the entirety of the Witcher 3, then went back to work on 2077 after W3 was supposed to have solved some issues like open world. How they went from their prior game releases to 2077 is astounding.

Rose-coloured/nostalgia glasses. The post-release stuff was much more than some UI and QOL changes. Look at this patch. Fxing quest-related NPCs not spawning, player getting stuck, stuff not working properly or not being calculated properly. This is among the stuff people burn CP2077 for. The strange difference is flying Roach is now considered a funny quirk, but weird car physics launching you into space equals terrible game (and I say that admitting the driving is pretty poor in CP2077).

 

I played CP2077 at launch. Yeah there was one game-breaking thing I encountered for a side-quest, for which I had to reload an earlier save and a small corner where the ground didn't load, but that was it. I'm not saying it is flawless, but people have greatly exaggerated certain aspects, partly because of their own silly expectations of the game (which also stem from overhyping and unrealistic marketing from CDPR).

  

8 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

The problem for CDPR is something much harder to patch up than a video game; their reputation.

 

Simply put, it's in the shitter. Regaining public trust is much harder to do than fixing up a game that was launched in a knowingly poor state. 

True. Time will tell, but I'm positive about it. They seem to really care about making it better.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

I had upgraded my pc specifically to be able to see Cyberpunk 2077 in RTX... I don't regret it in the slightest! I had LOTS of fun with it, and I still have to unlock at least two endings, I still have so many things to do! The game looks glorious with RTX and DLSS. The bugs ranged from infuriating to hilarious, but none broke the game for me. The story(ies) are really well made and fit into the cyberpunk theme perfectly.

Spoiler

CEO stealing children bodies to live forever, AIs, dystopian corpos, rampant corruption, organ harvester gangs, augs, new aug related illnesses, even a human-kid blood farm at one point. Hard stuffs.

 

CP77 was NOT the game CDPR's marketing promised. Especially Keanu Reeves seems unnecessary for me. He was amazing as Silverhand, but I don't see why it could have been a cheaper regular actor in that role, that would have slowed the hype train. The biggest mistake CDPR made was to push the hype train to ludicrous speed.

I'm told CP77 barely run on PS4 and XB4 console, which is inexcusable. CDPR deserves all the criticism it got for launching a broken product there.

 

Still, judging CP77 as a game, I can't help but feel review were far too harsh. CP77 was amazing and buggy. I'm pretty sure CP77 at launch It was less buggy than Skyrim was at launch, and CP77 at launch was far more complete and stable (!) than Fallout 76 is today. No man's Sky was far emptier and soul less. Incidentally, I bought NMS years after thefact and I deeply enjoy it. Ultimately I believe it was a misrapresentation problem from CDPR, and I have no doubt they can claw back reputation.

[cj09beira]

17 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I agree it makes sense that Battlefield 2042 was probably made to be a battle royal game, until EA realized no one wanted to play a battle royal mode in a battlefield game, I think it seems like EA wanted it to be a battle royal because of specialists you can use a medic, support or engineer items on instead of a fixed class so there is less teamwork, no server browser, and you don't stay in the same lobby every round.

But I got so tired of buying games that were pretty much a beta test at launch then hoping the game gets patched enough to be playable and just stopped buying them unless they're on sale for a significant discount.

I think having a site based server browser is a nice feature, and EA can pull the plug on servers whenever they want as they haven't allowed you to host your own Battlefield server since BF4.

The only game i ever payed full price for was bf4, which i bought with the early buy discount they did at the time, never again, now i will happily wait 1-3+ years for it to go way down in price.

i didn't mind the site browser, it worked well enough, but we really need to go back to us being able to host our own servers as EA wont host it forever and i would like to keep playing the games i want to play

[cj09beira]

14 hours ago, Elisis said:

I hate this growing mentality where companies believe it's fine to mislead consumers by thinking everything would be fine, so long as the game is eventually made acceptable more than months from release. Especially when people fanboy studios such as CDPR so much.

people fanboy over CDPR for damn good reason, they have been on of the best studios for consumers for a while, with their no drm policy, no exploitative dlc bs, etc, cyberpunk is their first big blunder.

problem with current gaming world is partly that there is so little good journalism left, every game gets excellent reviews and it waters down everything, and then there is the fact that people just seem not to care enough not to buy it, we need to get better at not buying unfinished bad products.

[RejZoR]

I personally think so many games are ruined by stupid open worlds that are entirely unnecessary mechanic that everyone hypes so much just to tick a checkbox to have "OPEN WORLD" written next to a game title. Most of open world games lack a good story thread through the game and are all plagued by empty worlds that seemingly look rich and full, but are really all empty and boring and are just a filler where you spend 50 hours walking around or driving between missions. Games without open world clock in less hours because they don't have these stupid fillers, but have much more direct and engaging story telling in most cases.

 

I still believe Deus Ex or BioShock approach to open world is the best. It's not really fully open world, but the areas you move in always have so many alternate paths and ways to complete every mission or objective that they have much greater feel of openness than all open world games released today. You always see something interesting to listen to or to check out, you find new hidden paths even after several plays through and they never feel empty or incomplete and because you don't have to run whole virtual world, there is also less bugs and issues yet still doesn't feel lacking or empty. And it's these deep details where you go to gameplay micro management so to speak where you inspect objects, manipulate them etc, GTA has none of that and missions are always bunch of do this and that in superficial way and it's just not as engaging for me.

 

I was hoping Cyberpunk 2077 was more like Deus Ex and less like GTA. It ended up trying to be GTA... I did like some of the older GTA games like GTA3 and Vice City, but I just did everything but main story and lost interest half way through. Bought San Andreas and never finished it and I just never bought GTA4 and GTA5 because I just can't be bothered. Give me System Shock 3 or some next gen Deus Ex that don't try to be another dumb open world game and I'll be a happy camper.

[RejZoR]

14 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

people fanboy over CDPR for damn good reason, they have been on of the best studios for consumers for a while, with their no drm policy, no exploitative dlc bs, etc, cyberpunk is their first big blunder.

problem with current gaming world is partly that there is so little good journalism left, every game gets excellent reviews and it waters down everything, and then there is the fact that people just seem not to care enough not to buy it, we need to get better at not buying unfinished bad products.

I haven't bought Cyberpunk 2077 because of this. Everyone said it's alright game but full of bugs and lacks things they promised. Ok, so I'm not gonna pay a full price if it's lacking in things it should have. For games like that I usually wait for a price drop. If it's not complete as advertised, then it's not worth 50€ or 60€, but may be a good game for 30€. I've had a lot of fun with flawed games that had acceptable price. Issue here is, the price has dropped to meaningful level for content, but I sure as hell don't want to play and get stuck half way through because some NPC falls through ground while exploding in decompressive diarrhea while twisting palm trees are impaling him. If CDRP said "we fixed all the bugs and it is what it is" I'd buy it now. Reviewers I trust said it's not a bad game despite lack of promised content, but the bugs really killed it. But I don't think they are there yet even 1 year later. So, I'm just gonna wait until they basically stop doing fixes and consider it complete and done. Then I'll give it a play. When that will be, I have no clue.

[WereCat]

8 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I personally think so many games are ruined by stupid open worlds that are entirely unnecessary mechanic that everyone hypes so much just to tick a checkbox to have "OPEN WORLD" written next to a game title. Most of open world games lack a good story thread through the game and are all plagued by empty worlds that seemingly look rich and full, but are really all empty and boring and are just a filler where you spend 50 hours walking around or driving between missions. Games without open world clock in less hours because they don't have these stupid fillers, but have much more direct and engaging story telling in most cases.

 

I still believe Deus Ex or BioShock approach to open world is the best. It's not really fully open world, but the areas you move in always have so many alternate paths and ways to complete every mission or objective that they have much greater feel of openness than all open world games released today. You always see something interesting to listen to or to check out, you find new hidden paths even after several plays through and they never feel empty or incomplete and because you don't have to run whole virtual world, there is also less bugs and issues yet still doesn't feel lacking or empty. And it's these deep details where you go to gameplay micro management so to speak where you inspect objects, manipulate them etc, GTA has none of that and missions are always bunch of do this and that in superficial way and it's just not as engaging for me.

 

I was hoping Cyberpunk 2077 was more like Deus Ex and less like GTA. It ended up trying to be GTA... I did like some of the older GTA games like GTA3 and Vice City, but I just did everything but main story and lost interest half way through. Bought San Andreas and never finished it and I just never bought GTA4 and GTA5 because I just can't be bothered. Give me System Shock 3 or some next gen Deus Ex that don't try to be another dumb open world game and I'll be a happy camper.

Open world can be weird. There is definitely a discussion we could have about it from different viewpoints.

 

At one hand, I totally get what you mean and I mostly agree. At the other hand, some people just like to dive into a big map and enjoy the scenery (as long as there is anything to enjoy) and just walk around the map.

And then there are mod makers who will fill the world with their ideas. But I don't think that any game studio should rely on mods to succeed.

 

As you said with the GTA example, I'm the same. I played all GTA games, I had many hours of fun with them but I never finished single GTA game to the end. I just messed around until I got bored and never caring about the main story after a certain point.

Cyberpunk is even worse than this because despite being open world, the game is quite linear. Sure, you can do some side quests but most of them are boring or repetitive and only handful of them were even remotely interesting.

 

The best recent example where open world absolutely makes sense is definitely Forza Horizon 5. I'm not a car guy, I haven't played any car games for years but I just tried this one and instantly got hooked. Just driving around and exploring New Mexico is fun (for me).

 

I also like the semi-open world like Divinity Original Sin where you progress trough big regions where there is actually a lot of things to explore and do so it never feels empty.

[JZStudios]

18 hours ago, Roswell said:

Battlefield games have always had enormous maps, that’s one of the staples of the series. The game’s map sizes aren’t abnormal compared to previous entries.

Only compared to the completely barren deserts n such of 1942 with distance haze so you can't see more than 100m. Compared to anything more recent, the maps are goddamn huge.

 

 

[Sauron]

Maybe they should make it good before demanding $70 for it next time

[StDragon]

3 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Compared to anything more recent, the maps are goddamn huge.

That's really what amazes me; all that effort into creating virtual cities with all the details. Not just the man-hours put into drafting them up, but the coordination is mind blowing from my perspective.

 

What I'm really trying to say is that the process of these maps being built is far more amazing than the coding of the game engine itself.  

[JZStudios]

11 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/cyberpunk-2077/credits

 

Cyberpunk 2077 credits.

 

12 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

Nvidia and AMD both had staff on it

Then Digital Scapes Studios Ltd, Microsoft, Sony, GOG, Bandai, warner brothers, Kojima productions, Porsche, Epic games... The list is very long when you look into game development partnerships.

They were initially going to support AMD's game physics software, then Nvidia paid more money instead. Neither one of these companies would force a game to be released early. Digital Scapes is a support development group. M$ and Sony are because they launched on their respective consoles, again, not forced to publish. They own GOG. KojiPro put some cross branding in Death Stranding. The Porsche was a 1971 911 they licensed to be in game. Epic Games would be for the Epic Games Store. Bandai Namco was a distributor in Europe, unlikely to push for early release. and WB did distribution in NA.

 

None of those companies have a lot of reason to push the release out the door. The distributors maybe, if they're paying for marketing.

 

5 hours ago, tikker said:

Rose-coloured/nostalgia glasses. The post-release stuff was much more than some UI and QOL changes. Look at this patch. Fxing quest-related NPCs not spawning, player getting stuck, stuff not working properly or not being calculated properly. This is among the stuff people burn CP2077 for. The strange difference is flying Roach is now considered a funny quirk, but weird car physics launching you into space equals terrible game (and I say that admitting the driving is pretty poor in CP2077).

 

I played CP2077 at launch. Yeah there was one game-breaking thing I encountered for a side-quest, for which I had to reload an earlier save and a small corner where the ground didn't load, but that was it. I'm not saying it is flawless, but people have greatly exaggerated certain aspects, partly because of their own silly expectations of the game (which also stem from overhyping and unrealistic marketing from CDPR).

  

True. Time will tell, but I'm positive about it. They seem to really care about making it better.

I had the game since launch, and played it at launch. It's not rose tinted glasses. How do you encounter a game breaking issue in CP77 and say "No big deal" but the horse floating around is a huge problem? Like I said, it had minor bug fixes, but it launched day 1 better than anything Bethesda has ever done. You could play Witcher 3 all the way through from day 1 and only see some minor bugs in the entire playthrough.

 

If we're going on personal experiences, I never had those kinds of problems, except for 1 NPC in a sidequest being bugged so I couldn't complete a single side quest out of over a hundred. Most people had the same experience. The biggest issue I had was the dipshit horse getting stuck on fences and trees and not knowing what the fuck to do about it. Which was annoying, but not really a bug, certainly not game-breaking.

 

I mean, look at this shit. We're a year after launch and while the Witcher 3 at this point had fixed it's minor issues, CP77... hasn't.

 

5 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

 

  Hide contents

CEO stealing children bodies to live forever, AIs, dystopian corpos, rampant corruption, organ harvester gangs, augs, new aug related illnesses, even a human-kid blood farm at one point. Hard stuffs.

I'm told CP77 barely run on PS4 and XB4 console, which is inexcusable. CDPR deserves all the criticism it got for launching a broken product there.

 

Still, judging CP77 as a game, I can't help but feel review were far too harsh. CP77 was amazing and buggy. I'm pretty sure CP77 at launch It was less buggy than Skyrim

Sounds kind of generic.

 

Oh, no. My buddy has a PS5, we haven't tried it on PS4, and it's still broken as shit. Remember, Sony had to remove it from sale and the huge refund debacle. Though I'll never understand why people keep buying Skyrim and Bethesda games when they've proven themselves to be incompetent with every release.

 

[JZStudios]

31 minutes ago, StDragon said:

That's really what amazes me; all that effort into creating virtual cities with all the details. Not just the man-hours put into drafting them up, but the coordination is mind blowing from my perspective.

 

What I'm really trying to say is that the process of these maps being built is far more amazing than the coding of the game engine itself.  

Eh, not really. There isn't "all the details," especially compared to prior titles. 90% of the map is open fields and they don't have any sense of flow like prior maps. Cities are way easier to create than nature, and both are lacking in 2042. Looking at hourglass (the desert one) it's some very sparse buildings literally clipping through big sand dunes. Not that impressive.

[StDragon]

12 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Eh, not really. There isn't "all the details," especially compared to prior titles. 90% of the map is open fields and they don't have any sense of flow like prior maps. Cities are way easier to create than nature, and both are lacking in 2042. Looking at hourglass (the desert one) it's some very sparse buildings literally clipping through big sand dunes. Not that impressive.

I was referring to games like Burnout Paradise City, CP2077, and even GTA series.

[Middcore]

It's a good game already, if you play it on a nice PC. On last-gen consoles it obviously was not, and it should never have been released on them, but then the same investors who screamed bloody murder about bad reviews and refunds would have screamed bloody murder about losing sales to that huge PS4/XB1 install base.

 

It will never be the all-time great game that people expected/wanted it to be, and that it maybe could have been with another year or more of work. And that's depressing. 

[tikker]

44 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I had the game since launch, and played it at launch. It's not rose tinted glasses. How do you encounter a game breaking issue in CP77 and say "No big deal" but the horse floating around is a huge problem? Like I said, it had minor bug fixes, but it launched day 1 better than anything Bethesda has ever done. You could play Witcher 3 all the way through from day 1 and only see some minor bugs in the entire playthrough.

See my second point below, but I can only return this question to you in regards to your later comment: how do you encounter a game-breaking bug and say "no big deal"? I also never said the horse floating around is a huge problem; your words, not mine. Nowhere will you see me praising Cyberpunk as the best game ever or saying all its flaws should be overlooked. They should be addressed, just like stuff got addressed for W3. I compared wonky horse physics with wonky car physics. I don't see why Bethesda needs to be brought up at this specific juncture. We're talking about CDPR. You could play Cyberpunk 2077 all the way through from day 1 as well, I personally did so and the three things I encountered:

1. Side-quest got bugged, major bummer, luckily I had a save briefly before it.
2. Hole in the floor, one mesh triangle was missing in an obscure location that I tried getting to with the mild intent of breaking the game.
3. The slow texture loading, also bad and definitely needed a fix

My playthrough was as smooth as any other game otherwise and none of those bugs prevented me from playing and finishing the game, so same thing: you could play CP2077 all the way through from day one and only see some minor bugs.

44 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

If we're going on personal experiences, I never had those kinds of problems, except for 1 NPC in a sidequest being bugged so I couldn't complete a single side quest out of over a hundred. Most people had the same experience. The biggest issue I had was the dipshit horse getting stuck on fences and trees and not knowing what the fuck to do about it. Which was annoying, but not really a bug, certainly not game-breaking.

The bug I referred to earlier was exactly this situation. It was a single side quest out of many, I did not encounter any game-breaking bugs for the main story nor other side quests in my play through. If that was a minor bug for W3, then it's also a minor bug for CP2077. You cannot blame Cyberpunk for having this and at the same time for Witcher 3 say "'t is only one out of many". Both should be labeled as equally bad, because both are game-breaking bugs. Same for the horse getting stuck on everything vs. the dumb cars in CP.

 

44 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I mean, look at this shit. We're a year after launch and while the Witcher 3 at this point had fixed it's minor issues, CP77... hasn't.

So both games have glitches and bugs? Why would e.g. Triss' hand being bugged on fire, Geralt glitching through terrain, buildings not loading or characters T-posing and literally missing faces be "oh look at this minor inconvenience" for Witcher 3 but a person standing on top of a wheel chair or any variant of the aforementiond "omg look at this dumb design, burn CDPR" in CP2077?

 

I'm not defending all the problems the game has. They should have never launched on PS4, have delivered better on their promises and in general and neither side should have let hype take over as much as it did. What I am saying, is that if CP2077 just launched without all that hype that I'm certain reviews would have been much milder.

[Sauron]

7 minutes ago, tikker said:

What I am saying, is that if CP2077 just launched without all that hype that I'm certain reviews would have been much milder.

But it did launch with the hype and worker abuse, at full price. So...

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

See my second point below, but I can only return this question to you in regards to your later comment: how do you encounter a game-breaking bug and say "no big deal"? I also never said the horse floating around is a huge problem; your words, not mine. Nowhere will you see me praising Cyberpunk as the best game ever or saying all its flaws should be overlooked. They should be addressed, just like stuff got addressed for W3. I compared wonky horse physics with wonky car physics. I don't see why Bethesda needs to be brought up at this specific juncture. We're talking about CDPR. You could play Cyberpunk 2077 all the way through from day 1 as well, I personally did so and the three things I encountered:

1. Side-quest got bugged, major bummer, luckily I had a save briefly before it.
2. Hole in the floor, one mesh triangle was missing in an obscure location that I tried getting to with the mild intent of breaking the game.
3. The slow texture loading, also bad and definitely needed a fix

My playthrough was as smooth as any other game otherwise and none of those bugs prevented me from playing and finishing the game, so same thing: you could play CP2077 all the way through from day one and only see some minor bugs.

The bug I referred to earlier was exactly this situation. It was a single side quest out of many, I did not encounter any game-breaking bugs for the main story nor other side quests in my play through. If that was a minor bug for W3, then it's also a minor bug for CP2077. You cannot blame Cyberpunk for having this and at the same time for Witcher 3 say "'t is only one out of many". Both should be labeled as equally bad, because both are game-breaking bugs. Same for the horse getting stuck on everything vs. the dumb cars in CP.

Where did W3 have a game breaking bug? The horse glitch you had to actively attempt to do, it didn't just happen, and it had an identifiable cause. And you specifically said W3 was seen through nostalgia, insinuating it was just as bad or worse as CP77, which it wasn't. W3 had c or d class bugs, CP77 straight deleted your save files. For a LOT of people. It's not even close to the same.

 

Mmm, X to doubt. Did you watch the video I linked? Also, that texture loading is way more than "minor." You don't know what a game breaking bug is. Check out Matt Mcmuscle's Bug Report videos where he discusses what being a QA tester is like while playing some games. A side quest being incompletable is maybe a B or C. The game not loading shit, you falling through the world, deleting your saves, are A class. TW3 didn't have any of that.

 

1 hour ago, tikker said:

So both games have glitches and bugs? Why would e.g. Triss' hand being bugged on fire, Geralt glitching through terrain, buildings not loading or characters T-posing and literally missing faces be "oh look at this minor inconvenience" for Witcher 3 but a person standing on top of a wheel chair or any variant of the aforementiond "omg look at this dumb design, burn CDPR" in CP2077?

 

I'm not defending all the problems the game has. They should have never launched on PS4, have delivered better on their promises and in general and neither side should have let hype take over as much as it did. What I am saying, is that if CP2077 just launched without all that hype that I'm certain reviews would have been much milder.

The frequency, for starters. Then the severity/widespread...ness of the problem. TW3 had some very minor bugs like flaming hands very occasionally. The t-posing and missing faces was rare, and fixed pretty quickly. I think it actually only happened in Novigrad, and not every single time you went there. CP77 is consistently broken. The bugs are more serious, and way more frequent.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

21 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Considering CDPR are self published, who would that be?

 

Heres the thing:

They still can force  agame to be out from higher ups at the company, or one of the stores (steam or MS or Sony or EGS) said that they need the game to be out because its pissing off their users, which made the higher up force it.

At some point, there was probably a ultimadium issued, like "This game is going to be out buy blah blah or your fired", so tehy fixed as much as they could

[JZStudios]

9 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Heres the thing:

They still can force  agame to be out from higher ups at the company, or one of the stores (steam or MS or Sony or EGS) said that they need the game to be out because its pissing off their users, which made the higher up force it.

At some point, there was probably a ultimadium issued, like "This game is going to be out buy blah blah or your fired", so tehy fixed as much as they could

Still doubtful. Those are all digital storefronts, there's no need to reserve shelf space or anything. And it pissing off their users doesn't make much sense. What's the logic behind that? If they don't rush the game out MS and Sony won't let them put it on Xbox and Playstation?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

3 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Still doubtful. Those are all digital storefronts, there's no need to reserve shelf space or anything. And it pissing off their users doesn't make much sense. What's the logic behind that? If they don't rush the game out MS and Sony won't let them put it on Xbox and Playstation?

That was one possibility, but if there was a contract that stipulated it can only be delayed x times it could have been forced.

But its much more likely that higher ups at CDPR forced devs to be done