$250 Surface and Windows 11 SE

[GoodBytes]

Previously reported of a leak that Microsoft is working on a new edition of Windows 11 potentially called "SE" for schools and a low-cost Surface product, Microsoft has revealed these new products today.

 

 

Here are all the official details:

 

Windows 11 SE

Basically: Competes with ChromeOS. Keep in mind that kids of age 5 to 14 would be using it for school (K-8 education).

• New edition of Windows 11 tuned for low-powered PCs and schools.
• Marketed as "Cloud-first OS", what it means is that student stored files, pictures, documents are sync on Microsoft cloud servers instead of school hosted server, and school IT admins can manage devices, via the cloud. In short: Schools don't need host and maintain a Windows Server and have the drive capacity to handle all the student domain join account. In addition, everything is setup and ready to go for school purposes.
• No internet required to run, but as soon as it is online, it will upload student files on MS servers.
• IT admin can install, update and remove apps remotely (via Windows Autopilot / Intune)
• Can run any apps (Win32, UWP, PWA). No restrictions in frameworks. Microsoft mentioned Chrome and Zoom can be installed as examples.
• Office (Microsoft 365) included. 
• Includes 1TB OneDrive per student
• Simplified Windows experience:
  • Snap window is limited to 2 (side-by-side... In any case, for the displays resolution is low and display size of such system is small.. I mean remember it will be young kids using it)
  • Apps all start maximized
  • No file explorer as we know it. It has a different one that gives access only to Documents, Pictures, and so on. No "This PC", if you wonder.
  • No Widget
  • No Store
• Optimizations placed to run fine on low powered hardware. Including an updated scheduler which prioritize focused programs.
• Edge web browser included (obviously), but Chrome extension support will be enabled by default.
• It does not replace:  Windows 11 (Pro) Education editions (those aren't "cloud-first"), and "doesn't meet K-8 education needs"

 

As we can see, it is a simplified, tuned Windows 11 experience, which resolves many of the downfalls found in Microsoft previous attempts. Sadly, we don't know any more about the "optimizations" done to it, but if it were my guess, it would be just removing anything not related, for example: Hyper-V, WSL, WSA, Mix reality, Telephony, Modems (dial-up, 4G/LTE/5G stuff), Smart Card, reduce event logging, reduce (or probably even removed) telemetry, and so on. This is just a guess of course. 

 

Quote

Microsoft has announced a new edition of Windows 11 designed specifically for the K-8 education sector, dubbed "Windows 11 SE." This new edition of Windows 11 is designed to address fundamental challenges that schools are facing day to day with improved performance, optimized resources, and simple to deploy and manage.

Microsoft says Windows 11 SE has been optimized for education focused low-cost PCs, most of which start at the affordable price of $249 and are powered by low-end Intel and AMD chips. Windows 11 SE was designed with feedback from teachers and school IT admins in mind.
 

Unlike normal Windows 11, Windows 11 SE comes pre-loaded with Microsoft Office out of the box, including Word, PowerPoint, Excel, OneNote, and OneDrive, which can also be used offline as part of a Microsoft 365 license. Microsoft has also limited some of the multitasking features, including reducing the amount of apps that can be snapped on screen at once to just two; side by side. The Microsoft Store app is also disabled.
 

Windows 11 SE also automatically runs apps in full-screen, which makes sense considering most Windows 11 SE PCs will feature small 11-inch displays. It also removes access to the "This PC" area in File Explorer by default, as it's an area most students don't need to access when working on school work. Windows 11 SE is "cloud backed" meaning it will mirror all your saved documents stored locally to the cloud.

 

Surface Laptop SE

 

In the same event, Microsoft reveals its Surface product that will run Windows 11 SE, $249 US, the Surface Laptop SE will be available for schools only.

 

• Full plastic body (probably designed to survived drops)
• "Easy to repair" with visible standard screws. Replaceable parts: display, battery, keyboard, and motherboard (well, system-board)
• 11.6-inch - 16:9 aspect ratio - 1366 x 768 resolution (presuming to use this ultra common budget display)
• 4GB of RAM or 8GB of RAM as options
• Intel’s Celeron N4020 or N4120  as options
• 64GB or 128GB eMMC
• 1-megapixel front-facing camera (720p)
• 1x USB Type-A
• 1x USB Type-C
• DC barrel-type plug for power (no Surface connect port)
• 3.5mm Headphone/Mic combo port plug
   

Expected to be released sometime later this year or early next (again, you need to be a school). It will be avail, in the: US, UK, Canada, and Japan. More countries should follow over time.

 

 

Microsoft is not alone with Windows 11 SE devices, Acer, Asus, Dell, Dynabook, Fujitsu, HP, JK-IP, Lenovo, and Positivo are joining in.

 

Base model will be $249 USD, and the fancy model will be $329 USD

 

 

Sources:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/9/22771742/microsoft-windows-11-se-features-release-date

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/9/22771778/microsoft-surface-laptop-se-features-price-release-date

https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-11-se?passport=1636519256#comment-form

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/the-latest-surface-is-a-250-laptop-that-takes-a-swing-at-cheap-chromebooks/

 

[emosun]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

"Easy to repair" with visible standard screws. Replaceable parts: display, battery, keyboard, and motherboard (well, system-board)

Repairability 10/10

 

Operating system...... eh....3/10?

[Arika]

interesting concept, and the price is about right to take on ultra budget chromebooks.

 

Not planning on getting one at all, but actual reviews and comparisons to chromeOS will be interesting since ChromeOS doesn't really have a competitor in that space.

[EphraimK]

22 minutes ago, Arika S said:

chromebooks.

 

chromeOS  ChromeOS 

That's all I heard. AND I HATE CHROMEOS AND CHROMEBOOKS

[Somerandomtechyboi]

26 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Intel’s Celeron N4020 or N4120

Atleast the quad core will still be decent ish for a lil while and actually be usable for basic stuff but the dual core is a flaming pile of trash and will be decimated by any dual core newer than 15 years old (newer than c2d e6xx0 cpus) so unusable and ewaste right out of the box

 

To give you an idea of how much of a flaming pile of trash these obselete dual core celerons are, my dads craptop with a celeron n4000 gets absolutely decimated by my e8400 even at stock not to mention trying to do anything is extremely slow cause its running bloatdows 10 unlike my e8400 running w7, and the celeron has its power limits unlocked btw so no power limit throttling bullcrap. If the celeron could actually be run in dual channel then itd prob match my e8400 stock and a 13 year old cpu on stock speeds is extremely slow

 

only way to even have a dual core celeron to be usable is via a light linux distro or w7

 

the quadcore celeron is still decent and should match my e8400 oc 4.3ghz, if ran in dual channel it should pretty much destroy my e8400, still the performance of a lower end ~10 year old pc but its still usable assuming the os isnt bloated to sht

 

 

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Base model will be $249 USD, and the fancy model will be $329 USD

So base model = ewaste celeron n4020 and fancy model = low end 10 year old pc performing n4120

 

 

Itll be interesting to see if these laptops will perform well, esp the one with the ewaste dual core celeron, better hope w11 se isnt bloated or those students are gonna have a bad time (considering i pretty much rage at my dads craptop on a daily basis for being insanely slow at times and having to force shut down it a few times when it literally just stops responding)

[Jaesop]

This seems... fine, but it also is in that weird price range where you could spend a little more to get a lot more, including something that'll last a student longer (depending on how well they care for their things, I suppose).

[my name is guru iam tech]

20 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

bloatdows 10

I Mean There Is Even bloatdows 11 available and i installed it and became worse it even crashed whole of windows and bsoded

IT IS THE WORSE EXPERIENCE

PLEACE UNNINSTALL ALL THE BLOAT!!

[Lightwreather]

THOSE BEZELS /s

[AldiPrayogi]

would be a perfect device for my mom

[saltycaramel]

Vibrant high resolution display..lol

 

Anyway

iPad 9 - 300$ (edu price)

Logitech Rugged Combo 3 Touch - 120$
Logitech Crayon - 63$

 

For 483$ you get 

- fast Apple A13 SoC

- 3GB RAM

- fast non-crappy 64GB flash storage

- gorgeous 2160x1620 10.2” IPS display with TrueTone

- crazy iPhone-grade 12MPX ultra-wide webcam with Center Stage

- accelerated ML functions (system-wide always-on OCR, etc.)

- awesome lag-free artist-grade pen input experience 

- will feel fast for years

- fast AirPlay mirroring to a class projector with AppleTV

- keyboard and trackpad

- good battery life

- good rear camera for document scanning

 

Sooo…I feel this year’s iPad is a better value, if one can make the software part of the equation work..

[Arika]

1 hour ago, James Evens said:

high resolution 720p

Gotta love technically not wrong wording.

720p is "High Definition"

1080p is "Full High Definition"

[thewelshbrummie]

I'm reminded of the netbooks of old, but with a usable amount of RAM in the base model for the basics, which netbooks just didn't have vs the competition 10-15 years ago.

 

Back in 2011 I purchased a Toshiba NB550 netbook for £250. It shipped with 1GB RAM and was painful to use. Doubling it to 2GB really made a massive difference. I probably didn't need to upgrade again to 4GB (which required upgrading from Win7 Starter, as that was software locked to 2GB RAM), & swapping out the HDD for an SSD, but that gave me a very usable device for a £400 total spend and a great machine to travel with for months at a time that was extremely robust. This device doesn't have that problem, it'll be usable from the box (and have a more usable display res than the 1024x600 10" screen netbooks came with).

 

The specs are obviously not great but it's about getting the unit cost as low as possible - take the Surface Go & Laptop Go, the emmc storage options are unlikely to be of any interest to anyone who posts here. For both devices you would spend the extra $150 for the middle option for double the storage & RAM, with the storage switching from emmc to nvme. But when ordering in bulk the $150 saved per unit builds up very quickly. The $150 price difference completely makes sense if you're buying a single device, but not if you're buying 100 when you can save $15,000 by going with a cheaper model. Obviously for an educational setting it makes sense when considering that these are designed for quantity vs quality - and a school purchasing the base model at retail would absolutely not have any problem with the price vs previous Surface products. Ordering 100 @$250 is $25K before any discounts, which makes far more sense to a school than the Laptop Go when these are less than half the price. I'm assuming that despite this schools just aren't willing to jump for the Laptop Go in the numbers Microsoft have hoped for due to the price tag for the Go & Laptop Go being still significantly more than Chromeooks, which has led to this device. It's an ideal education device and I suspect this will work out well.

 

That said I'd have no issue if Microsoft released this for general use - obviously a basic processor and emmc storage but 4GB RAM is still enough to do the basics - I have an Intel Compute Stick that launched in 2015 with 64GB emmc, 4GB RAM and a Core m3 - it's a little slow to boot but still way faster than any HDD boot drive, and is perfectly fine for basic computing. I suspect this might be slower but a quad core (no hyperthreading) CPU is still likely to get the job done.

 

At $250 it's in impulse purchase territory and would a great cheap device to travel with vs taking a full sized and far more expensive laptop or tablet (at least when the pandemic isn't a factor). The 8GB model could be really decent though for consumers so long as the price difference is marginal.

 

Whether this will work vs Chromebooks will be interesting to see, I'm not 100% convinced but this definitely makes a better case than previous efforts from Microsoft.

[AndreiArgeanu]

39 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Vibrant high resolution display..lol

 

Anyway

iPad 9 - 300$ (edu price)

Logitech Rugged Combo 3 Touch - 120$
Logitech Crayon - 63$

 

For 483$ you get 

- fast Apple A13 SoC

- 3GB RAM

- fast non-crappy 64GB flash storage

- gorgeous 2160x1620 10.2” IPS display with TrueTone

- crazy iPhone-grade 12MPX ultra-wide webcam with Center Stage

- accelerated ML functions (system-wide always-on OCR, etc.)

- awesome lag-free artist-grade pen input experience 

- will feel fast for years

- fast AirPlay mirroring to a class projector with AppleTV

- keyboard and trackpad

- good battery life

- good rear camera for document scanning

 

Sooo…I feel this year’s iPad is a better value, if one can make the software part of the equation work..

That's basically 500$, so two Surface SE's, not to mention that iPad's are far more difficult to manage and deploy (since god forgive you dare modify Apple's iOS to suit your needs), especially in schools that predominantly use Windows so you'll need another IT technician or a better experienced IT technician that can deploy and manage these devices which adds to costs. There's a reason schools have been buying chromebooks and not iPad's, they're cheaper and easier to manage, deploy, replace and even far easier to repair since Apple would rather die than sell any replacement parts or schematics for their devices. And this is basically Microsoft's answer to Chromebooks.

 

Also good luck finding projectors in most schools today that have AirPlay functionality, regardless if they did, kids would probably try to mess with them.

[mr moose]

I would call this virtue signalling, except there was another discussion where it was suggested MS was moving it's weight behind right to repair.  I suggested then that releasing a whole range of repairable products might actually be a sales winner for them when everyone else wants you to buy a new device.  Seems to be a little more substance to this now.

 

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

That's basically 500$, so two Surface SE's, not to mention that iPad's are far more difficult to manage and deploy (since god forgive you dare modify Apple's iOS to suit your needs), especially in schools that predominantly use Windows so you'll need another IT technician or a better experienced IT technician that can deploy and manage these devices which adds to costs. There's a reason schools have been buying chromebooks and not iPad's, they're cheaper and easier to manage, deploy, replace and even far easier to repair since Apple would rather die than sell any replacement parts or schematics for their devices. And this is basically Microsoft's answer to Chromebooks.

 

Also good luck finding projectors in most schools today that have AirPlay functionality, regardless if they did, kids would probably try to mess with them.

And apple know when you break the screen they will sell you another one, at least with this it looks like you'll be able to buy a new screen or have one fitted with little issue.   Making it even cheaper again to operate over the long run.

[saltycaramel]

2 hours ago, thewelshbrummie said:

At $250 it's in impulse purchase territory

 

Pretty sure anyone who’s already lost his “netbook virginity” or “Atom virginity” wouldn’t impulse-buy these if their life depended on it  But I may be wrong and masochism could be more common than I realize..

[saltycaramel]

2 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

That's basically 500$, so two Surface SE's,

If we remove the crayon/pencil (which the Surface SE doesn’t have anyway), we’re down to 420$ for a 64GB iPad 9 + Logitech education-oriented rugged keyboard/trackpad case. 

 

420$ is still a lot more than 250$ and it’s far less repairable. Yet it’s an interesting thought experiment to compare how supremely better and faster an ARM + non-repairable (=very integrated) device like the iPad can be in many regards, in this era of ARM vs x86 debates and integrated vs modular_design debates. Both schools of thought have Pros and Cons. Some people think not giving up x86 and not giving up repairability is “free”, but it’s not. You’re leaving speed and screen resolution (itself connected to gpu power, efficiency and battery life) on the table. In many ways you’re getting less per buck. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

3 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

If we remove the crayon/pencil (which the Surface SE doesn’t have anyway), we’re down to 420$ for a 64GB iPad 9 + Logitech education-oriented rugged keyboard/trackpad case. 

 

420$ is still a lot more than 250$ and it’s far less repairable. Yet it’s an interesting thought experiment to compare how supremely better and faster an ARM + non-repairable (=very integrated) device like the iPad can be in many regards, in this era of ARM vs x86 debates and integrated vs modular_design debates. Both schools of thought have Pros and Cons. Some people think not giving up x86 and not giving up repairability is “free”, but it’s not. You’re leaving speed and screen resolution (itself connected to gpu power, efficiency and battery life) on the table. In many ways you’re getting less per buck. 

You seem to be misled ARM does not equal not repairable and x86 does not equal modularity and repairability, architecture has absolutely no relation to those factors. You can have an ARM machine that is repairable and modular and an x86 machine that is not repairable and modular. My critiques of the iPad were related to Apple and not the ARM architecture. Apple, as I've previously said, does not make parts and tools required for repair available and they are actively working against people and companies who want to repair these devices by unnecessarily serializing parts and making it more and more difficult to get access to schematics and buy chips and parts like screens by telling the manufacturer of those chips not to sell them to anyone else but them. Higher performance DOES NOT equal less repair ability those are two very separate factors and repairability is not necessarily directly related to modularity.

 

Also arguably you're not getting less per buck in fact you're getting more with the Surface SE, you have to remember the Surface SE is directed towards the education sector the iPad in the long run will cost far more than a Surface SE. You have to keep in mind these devices are for kids and they will get abused. If a kid breaks an iPad screen that's 300$ down the gutter right there because even if you can find a replacement screen that has a decent price when you combine the labor costs for taking the iPad apart and installing the screen you'll get pretty close to the price of a new unit at which point it makes no sense to repair it. Again if the keyboard breaks that's another 120$ that have to be spent on a new one because it doesn't look repairable. As compared to the Surface SE for which a screen replacement is relatively simple and judging the cost of current 10-12inch 720p screens will end up with about 50$ or so in parts cost, laptop keyboards around 30-50$ as well in parts cost. Not to even mention the additional head aches that come with even trying to manage and deploy iPads due to how unmodifiable iOS is.

 

The Surface SE is not directed at the consumer market, it's directed towards education, yes sure, the iPad is better value for the average person but it is most definitely not better value for schools.

[InstantNewt]

6 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

THOSE BEZELS /s

At LeAsT iT dOeSn’T hAvE a NoTcH. Rather have this than one of those god awful Max Pros I can’t afford and never planned on buying /s

[saltycaramel]

31 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

You seem to be misled ARM does not equal not repairable and x86 does not equal modularity and repairability, architecture has absolutely no relation to those factors. You can have an ARM machine that is repairable and modular and an x86 machine that is not repairable and modular. My critiques of the iPad were related to Apple and not the ARM architecture. Apple, as I've previously said, does not make parts and tools required for repair available and they are actively working against people and companies who want to repair these devices by unnecessarily serializing parts and making it more and more difficult to get access to schematics and buy chips and parts like screens by telling the manufacturer of those chips not to sell them to anyone else but them. Higher performance DOES NOT equal less repair ability those are two very separate factors and repairability is not necessarily directly related to modularity.

 

 

This is a misrepresentation of what I said.

If I connect two concepts with an “and”, it doesn’t mean the concepts are connected or that one is the direct consequence of the other.

 

That said, I just look at what the market has to offer and so far I see some patterns. And these patterns tell me that currently you’re getting more bang for the buck with devices that are 1) ARM and 2) not particularly repairable. I hope that this apparent correlation will fall apart in the coming years. Or maybe it won’t and the performance gap will just get bigger and bigger. What I don’t get is people believing that the “power of legacy and tradition” (like legacy expectations about repairability or legacy support for windows x86 apps) will be enough to keep the boat afloat, should the gap keep getting wider and wider. The mere fact that Chromebooks are super popular in this sector is already showing that nothing, not even Windows, is sacred and eternal.

[Doobeedoo]

Bah, I do see it's competing with Chromebook but still those specs are calculator specs.

[RejZoR]

Just like the obscene amount of laptops with Windows 10 in S mode all over the place. I didn't pay attention to just how many of these utterly useless devices there are around in stores. And people don't realize how useless S Mode is. You can only install apps from Microsoft Store. And that's it. You can't just optionally disable S Mode. You have to buy regular Windows to bypass this junk. Insane.

 

Checking low end segment a bit more recently, go with ACER Swift 1 if you can. I'm amazed by how awesome this laptop is. Or is it ultrabook? Pentium N6000 which is passive cooled so zero noise, 4GB RAM, 128GB eMMC, aluminium chassis cover and bottom with plastic keyboard that even has white backlight. HDMI, 2x USB 3.x and 1x USB-C. 14" 1080p IPS display. It also has 1x empty M.2 slot for extra SSD if you want something faster. Bottom goes off with just bunch of screws with nothing hidden For Windows, just buy 3€ license because screw you Microsoft. Or just use Manjaro Linux. Sure it costs a bit more than $250, but it's just infinitely better.

[tim0901]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

 You can't just optionally disable S Mode. You have to buy regular Windows to bypass this junk. Insane.

Yes you can. Switching from S Mode to regular Windows 10 Home has been free for a long time.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307

 

It is performed through the Microsoft Store, but the process does not cost anything.

[StDragon]

eMMC is pure shit! It runs like an IDE drive.

[RejZoR]

6 minutes ago, StDragon said:

eMMC is pure shit! It runs like an IDE drive.

Realistically, it's not like you're going to be doing massive computations where actual drive throughput is required. For light work, eMMC is usable.