Linus fearmongering again

[GDRRiley]

2 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

ugh stupid argument, even ltt have proved that the "apple tax" is a myth

what? we know parts costs on phones, 6/6S/7/8 cost them something like 250$ in parts for a 700$ phone. apple easily has 100% margin there
X costed 370$ in parts and were sold for 1000$ even if it cost them 130$ to assemble it they still make 100%
 

and what linus said was they cost the same as building it yourself for many iMacs/ mac pros that doesn't factor in apples lower than retail cost on things like CPUs and RAM, they've got plenty of margin

[Ashleyyyy]

2 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

what? we know parts costs on phones, 6/6S/7/8 cost them something like 250$ in parts for a 700$ phone. apple easily has 100% margin there
X costed 370$ in parts and were sold for 1000$ even if it cost them 130$ to assemble it they still make 100%

mhm. what about software? Apple develops their own OS, that's very expensive. what about app distribution? Apple has it's own platform for that, that's very expensive. what about support? Apple supports iPhones that are almost 7 years old right now with the latest software. that's very expensive. 

 

 

2 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

and what linus said was they cost the same as building it yourself for many iMacs/ mac pros that doesn't factor in apples lower than retail cost on things like CPUs and RAM, they've got plenty of margin

again, Apple develops their own OS, has it's own platform for apps, validates drivers and support... 

[GDRRiley]

16 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

mhm. what about software? Apple develops their own OS, that's very expensive. what about app distribution? Apple has it's own platform for that, that's very expensive. what about support? Apple supports iPhones that are almost 7 years old right now with the latest software. that's very expensive. 

 

 

again, Apple develops their own OS, has it's own platform for apps, validates drivers and support... 

software costs are pretty low when you sell 10s of millions of the same devices.

apple makes lots of money from the app store, that easily pays for first party apps and the cost of running the store.

 

 

[The_russian]

3 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

what? we know parts costs on phones, 6/6S/7/8 cost them something like 250$ in parts for a 700$ phone. apple easily has 100% margin there
X costed 370$ in parts and were sold for 1000$ even if it cost them 130$ to assemble it they still make 100%

You’re forgetting R&D costs, which a lot of people either forget about or ignore. Once you have fully designed a phone the BOM may not be that high relative to how much they are sold for, but getting to that point isn’t cheap. 
 

That being said clearly their profit margins are healthy, they wouldn’t be as big as they are if they only had a 5% margin on each phone, I really doubt the margin is 100% though.

[Donut417]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:32 PM, Agojama1 said:

hen in fact it will allow Nvidia and AMD to order more vafers and meet the demand for GPU with increased

Considering they are tapped out on how much they can produce I dont see how they can meet demand. What are they going to do start pulling GPU's out of their ass? 

[Ashleyyyy]

16 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

software costs are pretty low when you sell 10s of millions of the same devices.

uh no, developing 5 OS's as they do is expensive. very expensive. cuz it's not just the OS, also first party apps. 

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

uh no, developing 5 OS's as they do is expensive. very expensive. cuz it's not just the OS, also first party apps. 

they don't make 5OS, they've got 2 with one having a few sub versions.
the cost of first party apps is covered by the app store

[nich99]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:32 PM, Agojama1 said:

 

Linus states that will TSMC price increase will drive GPU prices even higher, when in fact it will allow Nvidia and AMD to order more vafers and meet the demand for GPU with increased MSRP, but getting rid of shortage in the process.

Thanks for fearsome claims, bots are now buying everything possible and more people THAN EVER are monitoring GPU avaliablility.

We should troll bots more

[BondiBlue]

4 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

uh no, developing 5 OS's as they do is expensive. very expensive. cuz it's not just the OS, also first party apps. 

They don't have 5 separate, unrelated operating systems. iPadOS, tvOS, and watchOS are all based on iOS. That's 2 major categories - iOS and macOS. 

[Ashleyyyy]

16 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

they don't make 5OS, they've got 2 with one having a few sub versions.
the cost of first party apps is covered by the app store

they make 5. all for different hardware. 

[Ashleyyyy]

14 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

They don't have 5 separate, unrelated operating systems. iPadOS, tvOS, and watchOS are all based on iOS. That's 2 major categories - iOS and macOS. 

based on yes. but they are absolutely not the same and there's loads of development going into each one. 

[_crazy_crazy_]

51 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

they make 5. all for different hardware. 

well then if they make it for different hardware i don't even want to imagine the OS costs on something like windows and linux that have much wider hardware range than the lock set hardware from apple ... they exist to make money if you think otherwise you're just delusional...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/28/apple-price-hikes-and-services-growth-produced-a-42point5percent-gross-margin.html

[Ashleyyyy]

30 minutes ago, _crazy_crazy_ said:

well then if they make it for different hardware i don't even want to imagine the OS costs on something like windows and linux that have much wider hardware range than the lock set hardware from apple ... they exist to make money if you think otherwise you're just delusional...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/28/apple-price-hikes-and-services-growth-produced-a-42point5percent-gross-margin.html

windows and linux have nowhere close to the hardware integration that Apple's OS's do. they verify drivers for example, making that a non-issue for users.

[Blademaster91]

47 minutes ago, _crazy_crazy_ said:

well then if they make it for different hardware i don't even want to imagine the OS costs on something like windows and linux that have much wider hardware range than the lock set hardware from apple ... they exist to make money if you think otherwise you're just delusional...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/28/apple-price-hikes-and-services-growth-produced-a-42point5percent-gross-margin.html

According to the article the margins on services like itunes and app store are 70%. Thats a lot of margin from software and app purchases, then again its a closed in ecosystem. And I think thats even more reason to allow people to sideload software.

 And apple gets a lower rate from TSMC than other companies do, so their hardware margins are likely higher than other phone makers.

[_crazy_crazy_]

26 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

windows and linux have nowhere close to the hardware integration that Apple's OS's do. they verify drivers for example, making that a non-issue for users.

LOL ... , and yet still they have problems with printers and other peripherals that are not their mouse and keyboard .....
also windows has driver signature verification too just fyi
and linux ... well i rather not go through the all embedded  scene (appliances,automatons  and industrial machines where linux is still all mighty xD )

[Ashleyyyy]

1 hour ago, _crazy_crazy_ said:

LOL ... , and yet still they have problems with printers and other peripherals that are not their mouse and keyboard .....

source

1 hour ago, _crazy_crazy_ said:

also windows has driver signature verification too just fyi

that's not what i meant. Apple verifying drivers means that everything on a Mac is guaranteed to work. you won't have to deal with graphics drivers crashing for example like on Windows. 

[lewdicrous]

1 hour ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

that's not what i meant. Apple verifying drivers means that everything on a Mac is guaranteed to work. you won't have to deal with graphics drivers crashing for example like on Windows. 

It's easier for apple to do this due to the small configuration variety compared to windows.

On 9/9/2021 at 5:18 PM, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

uh no, developing 5 OS's as they do is expensive. very expensive. cuz it's not just the OS, also first party apps. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

they make 5. all for different hardware. 

 

5 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

based on yes. but they are absolutely not the same and there's loads of development going into each one. 

Are they developing the OS from scratch every time, or are they adding to an existing platform/framework? One's more expensive than the other.

The same thing applies to first party apps.

[BondiBlue]

7 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Are they developing the OS from scratch every time, or are they adding to an existing platform/framework? One's more expensive than the other.

The same thing applies to first party apps.

They don't have 5 separate, independent operating systems. There's basically iOS and macOS. tvOS (for Apple TV products), watchOS (for the Apple Watch), and iPadOS (for the iPad) are all based on iOS. 

[lewdicrous]

12 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

They don't have 5 separate, independent operating systems. There's basically iOS and macOS. tvOS (for Apple TV products), watchOS (for the Apple Watch), and iPadOS (for the iPad) are all based on iOS. 

I get that, my question was are they developing those from scratch every time, or are just building up on the previous iteration, 'cause they're pointing at those and saying they're very expensive to develop, I'm sure it was, at first, but the cost of maintaining thema and adding to them is cheaper compared to starting from the bottom for every version. Also the smarter approach.

 

I'm kinda adding to the point that software costs are relatively.

[Drakenbakken]

I think there's a chance OP could be right(not because of Linus though). Some of you guys are talking like there's no price ceiling on these items like people are going to pay 5,000$ for a 3060.
The cards will sell for whatever the demand is and if that's close enough to MSRP the scalers are less likely to bot it. With more and more used GPUs starting to float around and as new ones get bought/more systems get built, I could see overall demand start to decrease soon.

I can also see the opposite where the scalpers do just start charging 2grand for 3060s and people are paying it somehow. I think that is less likely though.

[Mark Kaine]

I think OP is mostly right,  just drawing the *wrong* conclusions? If manufacturers prices go up, prices will go up for everyone,  not down...

 

And calling this fearmongering is at least highly debatable,  its just how things work nowadays... youtube/influencers have some sort of tech / manufacturing news, prices will usually (or rather always?) go up.

 

This was a thing before the pandemic,  but it definitely got worse, for apparent reasons (supply and demand)

[SansVarnic]

-= Locked =-

 

SO, after reviewing, I found the topic has turned into an X vs Y and a few other spinoffs of derailment.

I believe this has reached its end otherwise I fear this will become a toxic topic that is not desirable for the community.