My Midlife Crisis Car

[JonoT]

 

[Gibby]

Damn, Linus went with the metaphorical gt 710 to rtx 3080 ti

[echos]

I find it funny that during the drifting B-Roll you can see the traction control system engaging. Surprised it was not turn off while trying to drift the car.

[sub68]

I loved this video better than normal LTT

[cummerou1]

Out of curiosity, what's the Intro music called? Can only see links for the supernova and outro music in the description. 

[BondiBlue]

10 minutes ago, cummerou1 said:

Out of curiosity, what's the Intro music called? Can only see links for the supernova and outro music in the description. 

 

[cummerou1]

13 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

 

Sorry, it says the video is unavailable, would you be able to provide the name of the song please? 

[BondiBlue]

1 minute ago, cummerou1 said:

Sorry, it says the video is unavailable, would you be able to provide the name of the song please? 

It's Get Money Swag. The artist is D.Cope. 

[cummerou1]

1 minute ago, BondiBlue said:

It's Get Money Swag. The artist is D.Cope. 

Thank you

[Radium_Angel]

Linus, you want a proper driving experience? You want to feel connected to the car in a way you've never been? You want a car that doesn't overwhelm you with 900 plus still options or +40k is surcharges?

 

Buy an old Alfa Romeo, a GTV-6 or even the 164 (I've had both)

Sure, it's not electric gee-whiz BS, and it doesn't need to be. It's got a stunning engine, a manual transmission, leather seats the likes of which *no one* can match (certainly not the Japanese, and the Germans have no clue) and no driver-assisted aids to distract from the pure driving experience of being in a car built by people passionate about driving. In every inch of the Alfa, you will know it was built with love and passion (and often times hand built) and Alfa never lied about the amount of horsepower it made either.

 

Italian, once you have a taste, there is nothing else that measures up.

[Derkoli]

My Fiancee currently owns the same model of Taycan, the 4S. And everything Linus said is just about bang on.

 

Even though it doesn't have a NA Flat-6 like a "proper" Porsche, it feels excellent to drive in basically every single way. It is certainly firm, but smooth, like basically all Porsche's.

 

@LinusTechAs for the Dyno test, I suspect the power not being to spec was down to the way the dyno was setup. Testing an EV is different to testing an ICE, even on a chassis dyno.

 

Porsche typically gives figures that are under the true output of their cars/engines. The 992 Carrera RS makes about 40-45HP, and 16 lb-ft more than advertised.

 

The 917/30 was rumored to be pumping out roughly 1400-1600HP, while Porsche said it only produced 1100-1200HP, with 1210Nm of torque.

[BaidDSB]

The intro was kinda cool. really nice production quality.

 

I think its the first time you beat MKBHD's production quality in a video.

[Egg-Roll]

I mean Linus is not wrong, but it's more like 4 years based on average, remove everyone on/around Min wage and it's likely closer to 45-50K so about 2-3 years? 

 

I know Linus says "we shouldn't" but everyone always will, at least till someone makes a better longer range, faster, as popular EV for less than Tesla*. Equally Porsche has always been known for its suspension, handling and tech related to such, so I wouldn't expect anything less than that from them, but you could buy a 2nd hand Porsche for that handling and still have a Tesla for the price of one Porsche Taycan, sure it's not as "green" but at least you've saved some "green".

 

 

*The Mach-E from ford is potentially better than the Y esp base price right now, but at Tesla price (in Canada) it's 100km less range, worst charging network and I personally don't care for the looks.

 

58 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Linus, you want a proper driving experience? You want to feel connected to the car in a way you've never been? You want a car that doesn't overwhelm you with 900 plus still options or +40k is surcharges?

 

Buy an old Alfa Romeo, a GTV-6 or even the 164 (I've had both)

Sure, it's not electric gee-whiz BS, and it doesn't need to be. It's got a stunning engine, a manual transmission, leather seats the likes of which *no one* can match (certainly not the Japanese, and the Germans have no clue) and no driver-assisted aids to distract from the pure driving experience of being in a car built by people passionate about driving. In every inch of the Alfa, you will know it was built with love and passion (and often times hand built) and Alfa never lied about the amount of horsepower it made either.

 

Italian, once you have a taste, there is nothing else that measures up.

shhh what you speak is mutiny around here parts  Truth be told, I do agree with you, it's the very reason why I like the oldies, sadly cars like Alfa are rare around Canada, not impossible but rare, and anything that provides genuine road pleasure is expensive to own.

 

This also brings up one thing that has bugged me during this whole review, why did Linus compare a Model Y that cost $50,000-$60,000 to a car that costs $120,000 at start? That's the equivalent to comparing a 3060 Ti to a 3080 and expecting the 3060 Ti to be the 3080's equal...

 

Equally Linus's closing statement also shows he clearly has not been in a Porsche or any other high end factory tuned car. Alex's closing statement bringing up the GT3 also questions if he forgot the new upcoming Roadster exists which is apparently going to go double the range for $50,000 more base. I would expect the GT3 to have the 911 agility but no one knows how Tesla's roadster will handle, it could be the GT3s rival so why even bring it up as neither are in production?

 

  

2 minutes ago, CCWong said:

So why was the car too good for Linus?

Too expensive, tech lacking, uncertainty in future updates. Basically getting a normal Porsche for the Porsche experience +any other EV would be better.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Egg-Roll said:

why did Linus compare a Model Y that cost $50,000-$60,000 to a car that costs $120,000 at start? That's the equivalent to comparing a 3060 Ti to a 3080 and expecting the 3060 Ti to be the 3080's equal...

Because he doesn't know any better. 

This is not an insult, it's simply fact, it would be like giving two video cards to a gearhead and asking him to compare them against each other. It's done out of ignorance, nothing more. IIRC Linus states he is not a gearhead, so I imagine much of the finer points of cars go over his head.

 

I could list the Italian cars I've owned (with a smattering of british, TVR and MGB come readily to mind) and the reasons why they are all superiour to this, or any other electric car, but this is the wrong crowd for that, as I suspect 99% of the people on the LTT forum have never driven a GTV-6, much less something really exotic like my old Lancia 037.

[Egg-Roll]

Just now, CCWong said:

That seems like the reason he is too good for the car, not the other way around.

Perhaps, but considering the nonstop complains from others as well about the infotainment and such, then tack on the price, his ending stance is inline with what others have basically said as well. If you like Porsche and want to go green this is the only option currently and you have to live with it's "perks", but for everyone else you'd be better off getting anything else EV or not. Good first try for Porsche, but try harder much harder next time.

 

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Because he doesn't know any better. 

This is not an insult, it's simply fact, it would be like giving two video cards to a gearhead and asking him to compare them against each other. It's done out of ignorance, nothing more. IIRC Linus states he is not a gearhead, so I imagine much of the finer points of cars go over his head.

 

I could list the Italian cars I've owned (with a smattering of british, TVR and MGB come readily to mind) and the reasons why they are all superiour to this, or any other electric car, but this is the wrong crowd for that, as I suspect 99% of the people on the LTT forum have never driven a GTV-6, much less something really exotic like my old Lancia 037.

It's imo pure ignorance if it was his first car review then sure, but this is his what 4th? (including the Mach-E, across all channels wise) Equally I think it's Edzel or Brandon who owns a Model X something they could actually compare side by side price wise which would have been more fair of a Tesla comparison but I guess that would make the 4s look even worst, and I'm actually surprised they haven't made a video on it yet as well.

 

The issue here is a good chunk of the European cars were not very big because we had the big block V8s that could pop wheelies, and were stupidly cheap to modify etc. Only big successors are cheap ones like the VW Bug or the Mini. So while yes most people here including me have never driven or been in anything from that side of the world it however is not really their fault, personally I love a good chunk of the cars you have there, esp the past units.

 

I like EVs for 2 reasons I can do basically everything at home that is needed to be done daily/weekly not worrying about getting dirty or idiots doing stupid things while at the station, and the instant torque most cars can't even touch. I support Tesla because they are the only ones taking EVs seriously enough, as they are the only company who has invested in the infrastructure as well as their vehicles. Sure they are like Apple in the anti-repair and their Patent "good faith" clause has massive potential implications but when you are the leader of everything EV what could you possibly steal or even want to steal from your competition  (unless it's a company like Porsche where they would totally steal their suspension tech lol) Personally I would love to see a single standard forced like in the EU for North America, then maybe we can actually see people using the tesla chargers on other vehicles w/o needing to hack things. It would be a win/win for everyone.

[Derkoli]

11 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

compare side by side price wise which would have been more fair of a Tesla comparison but I guess that would make the 4s look even worst

Do keep in mind that the 4S is a low-end Taycan model. So it's comparing a high end Tesla model to a low end Porsche. Price wise it's fair, but position in each model range wise, it's not.

 

Also, the Model X is an SUV. The only SUV's Porsche produce are the Macan and Cayenne. The Taycan is not an SUV.

 

And Porsche's aren't exactly known for low cost at all. The cheapest Porsche starts at 60k USD, and they are a luxury brand.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Derkoli

[Senzelian]

Wouldn't want to buy any electric car right now. I don't like how difficult it is to recycle batteries and I don't like the charging infrastructure and the additional strain it puts on the electric network.

 

I'll stick with petrol for now. Seems to be a lot more environmentally friendly to just stick with what you already have.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, Derkoli said:

Do keep in mind that the 4S is a low-end Taycan model. So it's comparing a high end Tesla model to a low end Porsche. Price wise it's fair, but position in each model range wise, it's not.

 

Also, the Model X is an SUV. The only SUV's Porsche produce are the Macan and Cayenne. The Taycan is not an SUV.

 

And Porsche's aren't exactly known for low cost at all. The cheapest Porsche starts at 60k USD, and they are a luxury brand.

Position in a models lineup doesn't make sense to do as why not compare the Ferrari 812 Superfast as well towards the 4s? Even tho it's only 425K but hey it has a more expensive unit at around $450k... Or how about comparing the $25,000 Camaro with it? I can promise you, you wont get a completely different ride if you buy the $25,000 vs the $75,000 unit outside of the engine. Obviously like everyone else Tesla isn't going to put their best tech in a $40-60K car, they are going to leave that to their higher ranges/more expensive units, which is why it's still a fair comparison to use. Equally just because 4s is "low end" for the Taycan lineup doesn't mean they are a low end Porsche, that is left to the 718 or the Macan, the Taycan family is right in the sweet spot for most Porsche buyers, just like how the 3/Y are for average consumers. Also like I stated Porsche is known for handling so comparing that to Tesla let alone a low end model without mentioning it is not the best idea in the world, it's like comparing any Porsche to a Mustang handling wise, The sad little pony will always lose unless it's heavy modified, because it shares the same suspension (afaik, outside of special/limited editions, maybe) and frame throughout its lineup (less the Mach-E, which hilariously shares a modified platform as the Focus/Explorer).

 

Your point? Unless Linus has a Model S there the X will do just fine, it's not like you can actually flip that thing, every Model X is possessed by a funny force called batteries. Also remember the S and X share the same frame, so outside of being a little more top heavy, with extra seating, obviously a SUV shell etc, they are close enough to say having one is equal to the other driving wise.

 

Tesla isn't known for low cost cars either, can you get the $30,000 Tesla? Nope the best US citizens can get is $40,000 (before rebates, obviously), however the biggest difference between the 30 and 40 versions? Battery size, nothing else. I see Tesla as I see BMW, Lexus etc, a middle man in brand range, they don't offer anything cheap but they also don't offer many things stupidly expensive either, and they are all about production numbers, expensive to fix, luckily Tesla owners only have a gone green ego issue unlike BMW drivers.

 

  

1 minute ago, Senzelian said:

I don't like the charging infrastructure and the additional strain it puts on the electric network.

I'll stick with petrol for now. Seems to be a lot more environmentally friendly to just stick with what you already have.

This really comes down to geographical area more than anything. Most people in the USA/Canada, have a nice electrical mix that usually equals less pollution than driving a car, same with infrastructure. So if you live in a tiny town 10 hours away from a major city, or if the town/city where you live is running on 90%+ coal powerplants then sure stick with petrol, but most city dwellers who work/live within the area their electrical network and daily lives can handle EVs with little no issues. *cue the person claiming they do something like 200 mi a day in travel and expect 99% of the rest of the country to be doing the same*  to my reply is "Uh a EV still works for you"

[Senzelian]

28 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

This really comes down to geographical area more than anything. Most people in the USA/Canada, have a nice electrical mix that usually equals less pollution than driving a car, same with infrastructure. So if you live in a tiny town 10 hours away from a major city, or if the town/city where you live is running on 90%+ coal powerplants then sure stick with petrol, but most city dwellers who work/live within the area their electrical network and daily lives can handle EVs with little no issues.

The emissions produced by an electrical car compared to a gas powered car during the time it is driven are not what I'm worried about. I'm sure they are lower than that of any gas powered car.

But cars need to be manufactured, the infrastructure to produce and power electric cars needs to be build and you need a way to recycle them, especially their batteries. That is what really worries me. Batteries will be produced in countries where emission regulations are almost non-existend and batteries will end up on landfills. So why make the switch? Certainly not for the environment.

 

Edit:
And range isn't why I'm worried about the charging infrastructure that is needed to charge electric cars. The european electrical system almost experienced a blackout in January this year. With the reduction in nuclear power in Europe, it is becoming increasingly harder to create enough electricity for Europe's needs. Prices are rising as a result of that. On top of that charging stations take up space and cost a lot of money for the government, which the people pay for. I'd rather have that money spend in internet infrastructure, streets, public transport or schools.

Public transport can truly lower emissions. Less cars on the road, is better than any electical car ever.

[Derkoli]

13 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Unless Linus has a Model S there the X will do just fine, it's not like you can actually flip that thing, every Model X is possessed by a funny force called batteries. Also remember the S and X share the same frame, so outside of being a little more top heavy, with extra seating, obviously a SUV shell etc, they are close enough to say having one is equal to the other driving wise.

The Model S and X are going to be nothing like each other to drive.

 

Just because they share the same chassis, doesn't mean they are going to handle the same. Thats like saying because the 911 Turbo S and 911 Carrera will drive the same because they share alot of components. But they absolutely do not.

 

The model X weighs more, will have more body roll due to its height and most likely will be more comfortable due to its spaciousness.

 

You just can't say they are equal to each other in driving feel. Especially when pushing them hard.

[Luscious]

I have to agree with Linus on all the negatives me mentions about the infotainment. Car makers either simply don't give a shit or have ignored the principles of what driving a car actually is. I'm not against having advanced tech in cars one bit, but it has to be made "driver focused" and "user friendly"... and a lot of the times that's just NOT the case.

 

Great example - I had the chance to drive a new Lexus LC coupe a while back on an extended cruise. Everything about the drive was nice (comfort, performance, feedback etc...) up until it came time to play the music. I needed to pull over in a parking lot and spend a good 10 minutes to get my iPhone working. It's not so much getting it connected, but going through the complicated menus/pages, button presses and directional controls to get to where you need to go. A lot of criticism has been made of Lexus' mouse control and lack of touch functionality, and rightly so. That kind of thing is just impossible to do while you are driving, and even at a traffic light you won't get it done in the short amount of time. Even pulling over can be dangerous if you happen to stop somewhere where you're not supposed to be.

 

Don't even get me started on setting the EQ and sound shaping controls. So many of these factory tech options are just not user friendly, either made deliberately impossible to use while driving or lack of thought by the systems designers. By comparison I have a double DIN JVC aftermarket head unit in my actual car that I can get to the EQ page in just 2 button presses.

 

A good system should not rob your attention from driving or become a distraction - that's how accidents occur!!!

 

That also raises the fact that in the last 15 years or so aftermarket car audio has taken a massive dive because of the increasing integration these factory systems are bringing. Rip out a modern audio unit and you lose things like AC controls. On some cars this tighter integration does bring better audio performance but on other cars it's an absolute headache, especially if you crave better music in your car and just can't have it.

[Egg-Roll]

46 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

The emissions produced by an electrical car compared to a gas powered car during the time it is driven are not what I'm worried about. I'm sure they are lower than that of any gas powered car.

But cars need to be manufactured, the infrastructure to produce and power electric cars needs to be build and you need a way to recycle them, especially their batteries. That is what really worries me. Batteries will be produced in countries where emission regulations are almost non-existend and batteries will end up on landfills. So why make the switch? Certainly not for the environment.

It's actually another benefit with Tesla, outside of battery mineral supplies they seem to be wanting to do all battery making within their own guidelines. Also I did google it after as I too am concerned about the batteries after life (why I don't throw my useless stuff out that contain them). 

 

I bumped into this:

 

If you walk into Ford or GM they'd likely be scratching their heads about battery recycling, but go to Nissan or Tesla? Different story (for Nissan hopefully lol, sometimes sales people are the dumbest people on the planet). So hopefully in the next 5-10 years the batteries will be much cleaner, or at least easier to recycle.

 

The infrastructure is no different than gas stations, once built they should be good for 10-25 years, and the locations shouldn't be changing, for power if you can go full green same can be said for them esp solar/thermal. For the batteries ending up in the landfill that is actually the responsibility of the place that gets the end of life unit, which should be regulated by the government and you as a citizen can insist on it happening, one can't simply slip a car into a garbage bag like you can with a phone or laptop, and I can't see why anyone would want to "illegally" dispose a car with a VIN that is associated to last owner.

44 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

The Model S and X are going to be nothing like each other to drive.

 

Just because they share the same chassis, doesn't mean they are going to handle the same. Thats like saying because the 911 Turbo S and 911 Carrera will drive the same because they share alot of components. But they absolutely do not.

 

The model X weighs more, will have more body roll due to its height and most likely will be more comfortable due to its spaciousness.

 

You just can't say they are equal to each other in driving feel. Especially when pushing them hard.

I also forgot to point out another thing that you reminded me just now. Linus literally did what you're telling me what I should not do. He compared a Y not a 3 to a sedan.

Also depending on Porsche they may put in a different suspension setup whereas Tesla is likely using the same but maybe stiffer springs for the extra weight. However I'm confident Porsche is reusing the suspension throughout their 911 models so they should handle the same outside of power differences.

 

So maybe you should also criticize Linus as much as me for trying to say using the X is still better than the Y which it really is, it has better suspension.

Also I never stated comfort, but the last time I was around a X and S they looked relatively equal, sure the X has a bit more room mostly leg and head thanks to it being a SUV but out of that, sharing the same frame means the main seating setup won't change drastically.

 

Oh FYI the difference in weight for a top end X to a top end S is only about 500LB which is about the same for the 3 vs the Y. So it is safe to assume if Linus was to still claim the 3 drives like a RC car like the Y and sees no difference then the X should drive the same as the S, correct? So all we need now is for a one Mr. Linus to get his butt into a model 3... Or easier, just borrow/buy a S...

[Streetguru]

For the driving talky bits, should put the face cam in a PiP box matched with the road footage, would have loved to see his face when he spun the car.

[Rudolph2301]

6 hours ago, JonoT said:

 

Hey Linus,

Greetings from Germany! I am 100% agreeing with you! The car is great, as was the Audi A6 (VW is owning Porsche and Audi and more ...) I rented the other week. But yes, the Infotainment and especially the interaction with it, is terrible! I was shocked trying to use it in the Audi! Unusable while driving for sure! Shameful, really, whilst the driving experience was so much the opposite! Kind of reflecting the digital stage of development in Germany in general. I don't understand it. The BMW I have, well had (long story), was a lot better. But still they somehow think to try to reinvent their own thing. Why? They build great cars, why try to re-invent stuff like traffic info and fail? Terribly fail! What are they thinking? Just license google maps and done! They have that down already, no need to redo. Focus on the car and the driving technology! So yes, glad you liked the car (German pride weirdly somehow :)) and let's hope they wake up soon! What an embarrassment for "Made in Germany" 

Like your videos

Cheers

Christian 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

It's like a higher end BRZ.  "Oh the handling blah blah blah" as a BRZ gets blown by a Accord.  400hp is a joke at this price point, and in the analogy the Accord is a Model S Plaid.  The whole point of buying one of these is for crazy fast acceleration and it's barely any better than a combustion engine.  And the range is so bad it's equivalent to having a 10 gallon gas tank.