thermal paste and chemistry project

[jepboy]

Hi, so I know there's probably a million videos out on this but i have a end of year chemistry project and i thought it would be cool to do something with thermal paste and the amount and way u apply it on a CPU, I'm gonna be using a spare Ryzen 5 2600, GIGABYTE B450M DS3H V2, 8gb of ram, stock CPU cooler, and a old r9 290x cause its my only spare gpu.(let me know if u think all that would be fine to run this experiment) My plan is to run a CPU intensive test after applying the different ways of thermal paste (ill be using 2 brands artic silver and thermal grizzly) then record the average and highest temp during the test. if you guys got any tips i could do to make sure the experiment works good let me know I haven't done something like this before. Thanks!

[Moonzy]

what are you testing for?

 

what are the variables? what are the hypothesis and objectives?

[kelvinhall05]

If I was your teacher, I would not consider this chemistry.

[jepboy]

12 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

what are you testing for?

 

what are the variables? what are the hypothesis and objectives?

im still figuring things out it was just a quick thought yesterday we only got assigned it yesterday LOL, but if u got any ideas let me know i got about 3 months to do this project 

[jepboy]

13 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

If I was your teacher, I would not consider this chemistry.

ill have to do a conclusion talking about what thermal paste is made of and how its works stuff like that 

[kelvinhall05]

Just now, jepboy said:

ill have to do a conclusion talking about what thermal paste is made of and how its works stuff like that 

I'd consider this physics more than anything, and regardless, I don't think it would take you even close to three months.

[jepboy]

Just now, kelvinhall05 said:

I'd consider this physics more than anything, and regardless, I don't think it would take you even close to three months.

we have 3 months to do the project and think of one just needs to be done and turned in before end of year plus its highschool so i feel that its doesnt really matter to my chem teacher as long as its good and has the stuff he wants i already asked him about the idea and he said yeah sounds good 

[kelvinhall05]

Just now, jepboy said:

plus its highschool so i feel that its doesnt really matter

This is a horrible mentality.

 

 

I'm just gonna put it bluntly since you don't seem to get what I'm saying: It's not chemistry and two days of work max. You will probably get a failing grade and, since this project takes three months and is likely a large part of your final grade, you may even fail the class.

[Hyrogenes]

1 minute ago, kelvinhall05 said:

This is a horrible mentality.

 

 

I'm just gonna put it bluntly since you don't seem to get what I'm saying: It's not chemistry and two days of work max. You will probably get a failing grade and, since this project takes three months and is likely a large part of your final grade, you may even fail the class.

His teacher agreed that it was a good idea so obviously he isnt going to get a failing grade unless he doesnt put in effort

[jepboy]

Just now, Hyrogenes said:

His teacher agreed that it was a good idea so obviously he isnt going to get a failing grade unless he doesnt put in effort

thank you its highschool with covid and stuff its kinda hard to do anything inside of the school so im doing something i know how to do at home that isnt like a volcano or something and when i said three months i mean hes giving three months to figure out what you wanna do how to do it the project doesnt need to take 3 months 

 

[Hyrogenes]

4 minutes ago, DriftMan said:

I think a better project would be to test liquid metal and the reaction with different materials, because yup I too think that heat disipation is more of a physics topic rather than chemistry

I agree with that somewhat. I think the best expirement possible would be experimenting with different types of thermal paste AND different types of liquid metal.

[Tan3l6]

The application method of thermal paste gives mostly results in difference of measuring error...

Given there is enough paste.

[minibois]

31 minutes ago, jepboy said:

My plan is to run a CPU intensive test after applying the different ways of thermal paste (ill be using 2 brands artic silver and thermal grizzly)

Someone could argue this would be more related to physics, as you would be looking at the best way to apply paste to create the best/thinnest layer of paste.

When you test the both pastes together and then relate the results to the materials used in the paste (the amount of silver, etc.) that would probably be closer to a chemistry project.

 

Whether just testing that is within the scope of the project, or if it's too small of a project is something you'd need to discuss with your teacher.

[Moonzy]

23 minutes ago, jepboy said:

im still figuring things out it was just a quick thought yesterday we only got assigned it yesterday LOL, but if u got any ideas let me know i got about 3 months to do this project 

You'll need to come up with those first before we know:

1) if it's even related to chemistry

2) if the test you proposed is a good way to go about performing this, because I can already name a flaw in your setup with regards to what I think your experiment would be testing for

[Beerzerker]

2 hours ago, minibois said:

Someone could argue this would be more related to physics, as you would be looking at the best way to apply paste to create the best/thinnest layer of paste.

When you test the both pastes together and then relate the results to the materials used in the paste (the amount of silver, etc.) that would probably be closer to a chemistry project.

 

Whether just testing that is within the scope of the project, or if it's too small of a project is something you'd need to discuss with your teacher.

Mind you it's just my two cents or whatever it's not worth here.

 

It could also be thought of if the TIM shows any chemical/physical change while subjected to heat and how much heat it takes to cause it.

TIM is a substance comprised of several different ingredients and could change chemically if enough heat is applied, depending on the exact TIM used and it's exact composition of ingredients. These ingredients, if enough heat is used could start a chemical reaction based on it's chemical composition and be used to show chemical stability or change when heat is applied. Interaction of the various ingredients may be stable at room temperature and even with low to moderate heat used but does it change when higher amounts of heat comes into play?
We know TIM can dry out over time and that's a physical change of the TIM that's heat-induced but are there any chemical changes too during this drying out process?
In what way and by how much does the thermal conductance of the TIM change during this process? Is this change strictly heat induced (Evaporation of the liquid/fluid medium) or does an actual chemical change caused by a reaction to the heat between two or more of it's component materials play a part in it?
All these could be the basis of such a project.

However......
I agree, this is more or less a rehash of what's been done over the years from what I'm seeing. We've seen charts, lists and other things used from mayo to toothpaste to whatever else tested for suitability as a TIM.

If anything else - If the OP is determined to do it, maybe this will give a few ideas to make the project actually worth doing.
 

[721831101]

2 hours ago, jepboy said:

ill be using 2 brands artic silver and thermal grizzly) then record the average

the temp diff between 2 paste is too small , also missing a control

 

and2600 is a cool cpu , you shall see little to none diff or within margin of error

[721831101]

2 hours ago, jepboy said:

chemistry

you should mix your own mixture

you know thermal compound is a mixture rather than compound lol

[akio123008]

It would definitely be chemistry if your project was about the composition of the thermal paste itself, but you're talking about how you apply it, which is not so much chemistry related. On top of that, how you apply it really doesn't matter at all, I can tell you that straight away.

 

TLDR: you can certainly do a project on thermal paste, but not about how to apply it on a CPU.

[jtmoseley]

3 hours ago, DriftMan said:

I think a better project would be to test liquid metal and the reaction with different materials, because yup I too think that heat disipation is more of a physics topic rather than chemistry

ahhh yes liquid metal and how it melts aluminum 

[harryk]

To all the people ITT complaining this isn't chemistry: heat transfer and thermodynamic properties of materials is absolutely included in chemistry as well as physics. There are no rules and the lines between the two fields of study are sometimes very blurry if existent at all.

(Sincerely, an actual physicist)

 

For the design of your experiment I have a few suggestions. 

 

First determine what exactly you are testing and measuring. The best experiments are simple and robust. What is the purpose of thermal paste? To improve the efficiency of heat transfer between two surfaces. So how do we best measure that?

 

IMO a CPU is not a very robust way. I recommend looking for a different method; one which will provide reliable, consistent, and controllable heat. One idea is to use a hot plate and a small vessel of water. Put the vessel of water on the hot plate and measure the time to boil. Repeat with thermal paste and measure the time difference. Boiling water is an often used method to measure heat, as water always boils at an exact temperature and pressure. 

 

A good experiment only modifies one variable: i.e. thermal paste choice. You need to define your experiment methodology and repeat it reliably for each thermal paste you test. This includes the thermal paste amount and application. Don't forget to also record your environmental variables like air temperature, humidity etc. Ideally they should be constant, though at least recording any changes will provide insight to your conclusions. 

 

I also recommend testing things that aren't thermal paste to compare. Instead of testing thermal paste x vs y (which may have little difference), pose your experiment to prove that thermal paste is better at transferring heat compared to other compounds, or no compound at all.

 

Lastly, if you really want to impress your teacher, do some calculations to determine exactly how much heat was transferred. If you use water this is a very easy calculation using the specific heat of water. Then you can determine the actual heat transfer efficiency of thermal paste with real units. This is a school project after all, and the real purpose is to demonstrate knowledge.

 

[Heliian]

Chemical compounds and their thermodynamics.  How does one compound transfer heat better than the other?  What elements or compounds improve the process? What are popular compounds and what would be an ideal compound? 

 

There are some great possibilities for a decent project.  Don't screw the pooch. 

[Dillpickle23422]

to make this chemistry, you could take a look at the ingredients in those pastes and figure out which one actually is doing all the work, but i think thats still physics.

[LogicalDrm]

16 hours ago, jepboy said:

thank you its highschool with covid and stuff its kinda hard to do anything inside of the school so im doing something i know how to do at home that isnt like a volcano or something and when i said three months i mean hes giving three months to figure out what you wanna do how to do it the project doesnt need to take 3 months 

 

I would recommend you work up with your English classes too. You are missing quite a lot punctuation which makes things harder to read for us non-native speakers.

 

9 hours ago, harryk said:

To all the people ITT complaining this isn't chemistry: heat transfer and thermodynamic properties of materials is absolutely included in chemistry as well as physics. There are no rules and the lines between the two fields of study are sometimes very blurry if existent at all.

(Sincerely, an actual physicist)

Geologist here. The main problem is not the properties of materials, but the proposed testing method. OP proposed to be testing amount, thickness etc. of one or maybe two different materials. If one is testing physical properties and their effect on results, then its mainly about physics. If they would be testing the effectiveness of several compounds AND several application methods, then it would be crossing over both, and be more on chemistry side since they would/could analyze which ingredients are the key factors of results.