I bought an AMD 6800XT that runs worse than my GTX 1080. Am I going nuts?

[-rascal-]

26 minutes ago, KingofMemes said:

well yes, but its still old enough that i could be causing issues. sure, cpus can last a long time, but it could be bottlenecking his gpu. Its very powerful.

 

I'm still running an 8th Gen Intel i7....though a i7-8086K OC'ed to 5.1 GHz.

They are still capable CPUs.

 

I'm pointing at leftover nVidia driver files, and the possibly the mixed 8GB + 16GB sticks combo, running at DDR4-2133.

[Action_Johnson]

It's not the CPU, people.

[SeanTwig]

8 hours ago, dizmo said:

Really guys? The 8700 is no slouch. It's very unlikely that it's causing that much of a bottleneck, if any at all.

I did some testing last night in AC: O and D2 and I was still getting the same results.  I even tried turning settings to low and changing it to 720p.  Still no improvement.  Monitored the CPU usage of the individual cores.  Turns out both games are so poorly optimised that they predominantly use the first 2 physical cores and then split the rest over another 2 physical cores.  So my usage was looking something like: 99% | 30% | 98% | 35% | 75% | 25% etc.  Basically showing that it is not optimised for multi-threading, or for that matter even using more than 2 cores efficiently.  You can really tell which games are made for last gen consoles and ported to PC's I guess.  I though that would have got better considering that 4 core CPU's have been a widely available thing for 20 years?

 

8 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

Any luck with DDU?

Yea I did it all last night.  Removed the new ones and the old ones.  Started fresh.  At the moment I have capped AC: O to 60fps so that I don't see any drops from 80 to 40 and only 60 to 40 which doesn't make me want to puke my intestines out that much. It's playable, but I feel kinda salty that I have a PC that is now worth almost $4k and i can only get the game to 'playable' whereas some games like Doom run so goddamn smooth it's like I am playing it from the future

[SeanTwig]

7 hours ago, -rascal- said:

I'm pointing at leftover nVidia driver files, and the possibly the mixed 8GB + 16GB sticks combo, running at DDR4-2133.

I am thinking of upgrading my RAM to maybe 2 x 16Gb at 3k+Mhz.  On the note of my CPU, it still clocks to 4.5Ghz when running games.  I mean it never goes above 70%, it just caps individual cores.  And that's hardly a hardware issue rather than a software issue

[thedarkdad3]

buy a better motherboard,cpu and faster ram

[SeanTwig]

14 minutes ago, thedarkdad3 said:

buy a better motherboard,cpu and faster ram

I'll just go buy a Gen 4 Mobo and 5950x 4head

[Action_Johnson]

Have you tried reformatting and reinstalling windows? It's not the CPU, I bet its a software problem. 

[Craftyawesome]

AFAIK a RAM bandwidth problem will have the CPU "active" while waiting for data, so your high CPU usage on a core could be your RAM.

 

I'm also not aware of windows doing any ram management that intentionally puts games in the dual channel portion of flex mode.

[Mister Woof]

12 hours ago, KingofMemes said:

it is definetely very old though. 

It's faster at gaming than ANYTHING Ryzen up until a few months ago. So....

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, SeanTwig said:

I did some testing last night in AC: O and D2 and I was still getting the same results.  I even tried turning settings to low and changing it to 720p.  Still no improvement.  Monitored the CPU usage of the individual cores.  Turns out both games are so poorly optimised that they predominantly use the first 2 physical cores and then split the rest over another 2 physical cores.  So my usage was looking something like: 99% | 30% | 98% | 35% | 75% | 25% etc.  Basically showing that it is not optimised for multi-threading, or for that matter even using more than 2 cores efficiently.  You can really tell which games are made for last gen consoles and ported to PC's I guess.  I though that would have got better considering that 4 core CPU's have been a widely available thing for 20 years?

Yeah, when I looked at the titles it wasn't too surprising that you were getting no improvements. Computers aren't the lowest common denominator though, consoles are. Always something to remember when the game is coming from a console. I think it'll probably be 3 - 4 years before we see games really taking off performance wise (NVME storage use, etc).

[SeanTwig]

23 hours ago, Craftyawesome said:

AFAIK a RAM bandwidth problem will have the CPU "active" while waiting for data, so your high CPU usage on a core could be your RAM.

Do you mind explaining what you mean here? I've read it a few times and I don't think I quite understand.  

 

22 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

It's faster at gaming than ANYTHING Ryzen up until a few months ago. So....

Yea this is kinda why I am hesitant to just fork out for an ultra fast Ryzen.  Firstly, most Ryzen's tend to have clock speeds of around 3.6 with 4.2 boost (which is basically what I am getting), and the only thing that is maybe an improvement is maybe better for things like streaming/multi-tasking (which my PC does fine, I used to stream PUBG @1440p with still my GTX 1080).  And if I have buyers remorse now, after getting a $1700 card that has jsut caused me headaches, I think I'll want to neck myself if I spend $1k on a CPU?MOBO combo and it turned out the problem was some software.

 

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

I think it'll probably be 3 - 4 years before we see games really taking off performance wise (NVME storage use, etc).

That's what I thought when Skyrim came out in 2011 with only dual core support.  I was like, surely not.  In 2011, almost everyone who was gaming had at LEAST a 4 core, with most also having 8 threads.  Iirc, AMD had the FX series 8 cores out then.

[SeanTwig]

23 hours ago, Action_Johnson said:

Have you tried reformatting and reinstalling windows? It's not the CPU, I bet its a software problem. 

I have not reformatted windows, as I was not having these issues literally a day before I swapped out the card.  I might try, but it's just a headache to do when I keep a pretty clean system, and I was having no issues with Windows prior.  Who knows though

[BTGbullseye]

25 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Firstly, most Ryzen's tend to have clock speeds of around 3.6 with 4.2 boost (which is basically what I am getting)

Ignore the clock speeds, as they aren't comparable between generations or manufacturers. A Zen 3 core running at 4.6GHz will perform similarly to 10th-gen Intel cores at 5.2GHz, but a Zen 2 core at 4.6GHz will only be comparable to a 10th-gen at 4.5GHz.

 

A Ryzen 5600X would be a significant performance boost, comparable to 6 average Intel generations worth of upgrade.

25 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Iirc, AMD had the FX series 8 cores out then.

Yeah, but even a contemporary dual-core Intel with hyperthreading beat those... Even in multithreaded performance.

[SeanTwig]

16 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Ignore the clock speeds, as they aren't comparable between generations or manufacturers. A Zen 3 core running at 4.6GHz will perform similarly to 10th-gen Intel cores at 5.2GHz, but a Zen 2 core at 4.6GHz will only be comparable to a 10th-gen at 4.5GHz.

 

Ahh that's very interesting to learn.  Thank you!  I would assume that perhaps the 'way' in which tasks are completed, regardless of the speed (Hz) is better on the newer CPU's.

 

On another note, I am currently running AC: Odyssey with RivaTuner open watching my CPU.  Not once has the CPU got to 90% on even one of the cores.  The most I've seen is core number one getting to 70% but the rest are pretty well spread.  It seems RivaTuner does a much better job of recording real time data than the windows Task Manager does.  I might do some more testing and grab a screen to post.  It's just weird to me that changing between 720p 100% resolution rate in game, and 1440p with 200% resolution, doesn't change my framerate at all, and my GPU usage or CPU usage seems to stay the same too.  Something VERY weird is going on

[BTGbullseye]

2 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

On another note, I am currently running AC: Odyssey with RivaTuner open watching my CPU.  Not once has the CPU got to 90% on even one of the cores.  The most I've seen is core number one getting to 70% but the rest are pretty well spread.  It seems RivaTuner does a much better job of recording real time data than the windows Task Manager does.  I might do some more testing and grab a screen to post.  It's just weird to me that changing between 720p 100% resolution rate in game, and 1440p with 200% resolution, doesn't change my framerate at all, and my GPU usage or CPU usage seems to stay the same too.  Something VERY weird is going on

Use HWiNFO64 instead... It does a much better job than RivaTuner. (which hasn't actually had any real code updates in years)

[SeanTwig]

12 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Use HWiNFO64 instead... It does a much better job than RivaTuner. (which hasn't actually had any real code updates in years)

I will look into it, however I think that even Fraps can showcase that something here is wrong lol.

 

https://ibb.co/nL1j5Ss
https://ibb.co/Vx8LZyj
https://ibb.co/mXt5NCJ
https://ibb.co/mtDzc2m
https://ibb.co/TgFHZMW
https://ibb.co/Tmcqngm

 

These are all taken with different resolution settings with most other in-game settings on high, except shadows and volumetric fog which are on low

[BTGbullseye]

23 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I will look into it, however I think that even Fraps can showcase that something here is wrong lol.

Yes, but HWiNFO has a much better chance at telling us what's wrong. Also, please use a different site for your images, those are getting converted to unreadably low quality.

[SeanTwig]

2 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yes, but HWiNFO has a much better chance at telling us what's wrong. Also, please use a different site for your images, those are getting converted to unreadably low quality.

I'll download it now.  Also, you can thank Imgur for not sending me a verification text.  Also, since when do I need to give my email and mobile in order to create an Imgur account?  Is there any site that I can just upload images without having to past the full image here?

Also, I may have noticed something, although I'm not entirely sure.  AC: O is running on Dx11 and Doom is running on Vulkan.  But I ran into another problem with Doom.  If I run the game at ultra settings with uncapped fps (200ish) while I also have a YT vid on my second monitor, the video starts buffering in quality.  I have hardware acceleration turned off and have tested with both Opera (my primary browser) and Chrome, which both have the same effect.  If however, I cap the framerate (144), the issue with the playback ceases.

[BTGbullseye]

44 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Also, you can thank Imgur for not sending me a verification text.  Also, since when do I need to give my email and mobile in order to create an Imgur account?  Is there any site that I can just upload images without having to past the full image here?

See that "New Post" item in the upper left on Imgur? Just use that... No account needed. You just have to post it as "Hidden", and right click on the image and select "Copy image address", then paste here. I know this works, because I just did it with this image: 

 

Morrowind FTW!

 

48 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Also, I may have noticed something, although I'm not entirely sure.  AC: O is running on Dx11 and Doom is running on Vulkan.  But I ran into another problem with Doom.  If I run the game at ultra settings with uncapped fps (200ish) while I also have a YT vid on my second monitor, the video starts buffering in quality.  I have hardware acceleration turned off and have tested with both Opera (my primary browser) and Chrome, which both have the same effect.  If however, I cap the framerate (144), the issue with the playback ceases.

Sounds like you might be having a storage or RAM problem. The mismatched and very slow RAM are likely the main culprits. I would suggest looking for a pair of 8GB DDR4-2666 sticks to put in your system, as it is likely to significantly improve performance.

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007611 600561671 600006072 600521526&Order=1 (take your pick of the three Ripjaws V that are at the top of the list, they're identical)

Or, these should also work... https://www.newegg.com/oloy-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820821321 (save a little money, but it might not run at 2666 easily in your system)

 

What Samsung SSD is that boot drive, and how full is it?

 

It is also possible that the Intel stock cooler is causing the CPU to throttle a little, reducing your performance, despite looking like the temps are OK. Even a $15 dual-pipe tower should perform better. https://www.newegg.com/deepcool-gammaxx-200t/p/N82E16835856049

[SeanTwig]

12 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

See that "New Post" item in the upper left on Imgur? Just use that... No account needed. You just have to post it as "Hidden", and right click on the image and select "Copy image address", then paste here. I know this works, because I just did it with this image: 

Ahh, I had adblock enabled. 

12 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

Sounds like you might be having a storage or RAM problem. The mismatched and very slow RAM are likely the main culprits. I would suggest looking for a pair of 8GB DDR4-2666 sticks to put in your system, as it is likely to significantly improve performance.

I was thinking about something like this? https://www.umart.com.au/Kingston-16GB--2x8GB--HX432C16FB3K2-16-HyperX-Fury-3200MHz-DDR4-RAM---Black_55526G.html 

I am assuming there would be no issue with running that on my Z370 considering it states it supports up to 4000Mhz.

 

14 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

What Samsung SSD is that boot drive, and how full is it?

 

It is a small drive (Adata), 120Gb with 40Gb free. All my games are stored on a 1Tb SSD (Samsung Evo860) that has almost 600Gb free.

18 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

It is also possible that the Intel stock cooler is causing the CPU to throttle a little, reducing your performance, despite looking like the temps are OK.

I have installed HWiNFO64 (how do you shorten that name lmao)?  I am looking through the uhh library? worth of information and saw that there is a stat for thermal throttling.  I am going to try and run a game with it open to see if I can spot any throttling or voltage limits.  I feel like I need a degree just to look at this program lmao.  It's really good though

[BTGbullseye]

8 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I was thinking about something like this? https://www.umart.com.au/Kingston-16GB--2x8GB--HX432C16FB3K2-16-HyperX-Fury-3200MHz-DDR4-RAM---Black_55526G.html 

I am assuming there would be no issue with running that on my Z370 considering it states it supports up to 4000Mhz.

Over $20 more expensive than what I suggested, and you can't actually get better performance than the 2666 because you don't have a K-series CPU. (and Intel considers XMP to be "overclocking") Sure, they'll work, but you're wasting money. Also, Kinston isn't great for high-performance RAM. If you're planning on running ECC, then Kingson is good, but not gaming.

 

[EDIT] Sorry, didn't notice Australia. Yeah, those will be fine, they just aren't really "good".

 

8 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

It is a small drive (Adata), 120Gb with 40Gb free. All my games are stored on a 1Tb SSD (Samsung Evo860) that has almost 600Gb free.

Ok, your profile says Samsung 250GB, so that's why I asked. That's mighty small for a boot drive, regardless of where you store your games, and might cause issues later on, but shouldn't cause this issue.

8 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I have installed HWiNFO64 (how do you shorten that name lmao)?

"HWiNFO"

8 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I am looking through the uhh library? worth of information and saw that there is a stat for thermal throttling.  I am going to try and run a game with it open to see if I can spot any throttling or voltage limits.  I feel like I need a degree just to look at this program lmao.  It's really good though

It looks a lot more complex than it actually is. Just spend a few minutes with it to get used to it.

[Xkillerpn]

By Steps,

 

Changing from Nvidia to amd

 

1 - Run DDU in safe mode and remove all Nvidia Software and drivers

2 - Make sure ram is running at same speed and the slowest sticks are the ones that you enable the xmp so that will be on the 1s slots

3 - No oc on cpu and only xpm enable test and use HWInfo sensores so you can share valid information 

4 - Be aware that at least 750w gold psu is needed for the 6800xt, use 2 cables from the PSU.

5 - reinstall windows 

 

Its important that you share system information so we can help HWInfo is probably the most important one, we need to look at temps, voltage, ram allocation and power. If you are running games on an old HDD this can cause issues, even if you have the main as an SSD.

[SeanTwig]

59 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

you can't actually get better performance than the 2666 because you don't have a K-series CPU. (and Intel considers XMP to be "overclocking")

This is news to me! That's something I might have to consider.  Right now I am trying not to have to spend $1000 on a CPU/Mobo combo.  I feel, while my 8700 is by no means amazing, it is no slouch either.  Unless someone can point out some obvious things that I am missing, I'd rather not spend the money until I can afford a 5950X (also when you can get one).

1 hour ago, BTGbullseye said:

It looks a lot more complex than it actually is. Just spend a few minutes with it to get used to it.

I managed to put some parameters on OSD through RT and I organised them the best I could. Screenshot coming...

 

10 minutes ago, Xkillerpn said:

Its important that you share system information so we can help HWInfo is probably the most important one, we need to look at temps, voltage, ram allocation and power. If you are running games on an old HDD this can cause issues, even if you have the main as an SSD.

I will try add the few I have missing that you mentioned.  As for the others, I have done everything on that list minus full reinstall.  I am running my OS off a fairly small SSD, however, I really only have things like the OS and a few applications like browsers and clients etc.  Everything either gets stored on my HDD if it's photo's/movies/music, or on my SSD if it's games.

[SeanTwig]

This is a screen shot after walking around this little town.  Settings are all high except fog, volumetric clouds, and shadows which are set to low, low, and medium respectively.

https://imgur.com/a/7Qhd9R2 (Hope the text is clear enough. Not sure what the resolution max is on Imgur)

 

The core usage stats as well as the CPU and GPU power are maximum during the test session.  The rest were real time when screen was taken.  The fact that none of my cores are getting to even 90% is the thing that's strange to me.  I know that the temp for CPU is a little high, but I'm sure the limit for thermals is like 100C. I do intend to get a better cooler at some point (this will be decided on when I decide on whether I need to replace my CPU or not).

 

Let me know if I need to change any of the metrics.  Also I tried to look for the RAM allocation you were talking about @Xkillerpn, however i couldn't find anything.  If it makes a difference, I have both running at 1066.7 with my 8Gb one in Bank 1/Channel A and my 16Gb in Bank 3/Channel B

[Xkillerpn]

3 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

This is a screen shot after walking around this little town.  Settings are all high except fog, volumetric clouds, and shadows which are set to low, low, and medium respectively.

https://imgur.com/a/7Qhd9R2 (Hope the text is clear enough. Not sure what the resolution max is on Imgur)

 

The core usage stats as well as the CPU and GPU power are maximum during the test session.  The rest were real time when screen was taken.  The fact that none of my cores are getting to even 90% is the thing that's strange to me.  I know that the temp for CPU is a little high, but I'm sure the limit for thermals is like 100C. I do intend to get a better cooler at some point (this will be decided on when I decide on whether I need to replace my CPU or not).

 

Let me know if I need to change any of the metrics.  Also I tried to look for the RAM allocation you were talking about @Xkillerpn, however i couldn't find anything.  If it makes a difference, I have both running at 1066.7 with my 8Gb one in Bank 1/Channel A and my 16Gb in Bank 3/Channel B

Ok 1 look, cpu is geting well used but not maxed. 

 

Gpu clocks seem low and the power is also low, Normally my 6800xt runs close to 2600mhz and 270w

 

Run Heaven benqmark and monitor the clocks of the gpu, just run heaven in window mode at 1080p, its just something on a loop. 

 

Turn on radeon boost and nothing else , vsinc and all similars must be off.