I bought an AMD 6800XT that runs worse than my GTX 1080. Am I going nuts?

[SeanTwig]

TLDR: Do I have a bottleneck somewhere? Am I expecting too much of games to be coded a bit better?  Am I the only one that has noticed a trend that coding seems to be getting more and more bloated?  Am I just nuts?

 

After 6 months of delays and cancelled orders and scrambling around to get a good deal, I finally bought a 6800XT for $1700AUD.  Turns out, I could have saved all my headache and some cash by just sticking to my GTX 1080.

 

Long story, I installed all drivers and made sure my BIOS was up to date, and most of the games I was "saving" for my new upgrade, somehow run (slightly) worse.  At this point, I'm not sure if the game I am trying to run are just so badly optimised, or if I have some setting turned on (or off) that is causing all this headache.

 

I am at the end of my tether.  I've tried everything I can think of.  My Time Spy score was around 14k. Everything seems to be fine, however I am only getting at most 90W draw in games like AC: Odyssey and Destiny 2.  GPU usage (as well as CPU and Ram) tend to sit around 50% and none spike to 100%.

 

I did have a daisy chained set-up for my GPU (which i have now rectified), but it didn't make any improvement. At most, under Time Spy testing I get 272W at default clock and settings.

 

Thought I was going mad so i installed Doom: Eternal (bless id and their coding) and I get 300 fps at Ultra Nightmare settings running at 1440p.  I get capped 120fps in EFT as well, which, to my dismay, made me no better at the game. 

 

Who knew that I would spend the first 48hrs of a new GPU, screwing around with in-game settings trying to get over 80fps at 1440p

[NattyKathy]

what's your CPU and memory configuration?

[SeanTwig]

1 minute ago, Natty Ice said:

what's your CPU and memory configuration?

It's all in my bio, but basically 8700, 24Gb 2133Mhz

[Action_Johnson]

In this situation, if I were in your shoes, I'd reformat my hard drive and do a fresh windows install, reinstall everything.

 

If you're organized, this shouldn't take that long at all, and can potentially rule out some software issues. 

[Mark Kaine]

18 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Am I expecting too much of games to be coded a bit better? 

That's most likely not the case, and not really how most games work,  generally you throw more power at it you'll get better results...

 

19 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Do I have a bottleneck somewhere

Probably, going from GTX 1070 to RTX 3070 has been nothing short of amazing for me. 

 

 

[Letgomyleghoe]

22 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

 

Who knew that I would spend the first 48hrs of a new GPU, screwing around with in-game settings trying to get over 80fps at 1440p

what game? what settings? 

 

22 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

getting at most 90W draw in games like AC: Odyssey and Destiny 2. 

what are you using to monitor power draw? why are you looking at power draw?

 

22 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

AC: Odyssey and Destiny 2.

these are pretty terrible console ports afaik. 

 

but yes, you're bottlenecking in most scenarios, your 8700k is limiting your 6800 xt.

[dizmo]

Did you use DDU to take out the old drivers?

I don't think the two games you mentioned are that great for optimization tbh. Try checking some other titles.

[Mark Kaine]

Most likely CPU is a huge bottleneck, and maybe PSU as well,  and maybe not even DDU drivers.

 

But the main thing here is the CPU isn't a good match, and it's not as simple as 'bad coding' .

[SeanTwig]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

That's most likely not the case, and not really how most games work,  generally you throw more power at it you'll get better results...

Well that's the thing, I can't seem to throw any more power at it. It's limited for some reason. Other games do get outrageous results.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

what game? what settings?

Destiny 2 and AC: Odyssey. As for D2, I tried max settings 1440p, and also lowest settings 720p with the same results, which made me think that the issues was somewhere in the game.

 

12 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Did you use DDU to take out the old drivers?

Gonna be honest, I do not know what that is? just deleting Nvidia drivers? Could that really be causing issues in select few games? Is there a preferred method? Or just move to trash?

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Well that's the thing, I can't seem to throw any more power at it. It's limited for some reason.

It's not really 'some' reason,  it's your cpu not keeping up in certain games.

 

Also while probably not deciding,  the PSU,as I suspected, isn't very good and should be replaced as well. 

[SeanTwig]

19 minutes ago, Action_Johnson said:

In this situation, if I were in your shoes, I'd reformat my hard drive and do a fresh windows install, reinstall everything.

 

If you're organized, this shouldn't take that long at all, and can potentially rule out some software issues. 

I thought about doing a fresh install. The only issues is I seem to have a habit of running into some sort of issue or inconvenience every time I do that. I can't tell you how many times I have reseated RAM and power cycled monitors to get them to detect correctly.  Failing all else I might have no other option. Only thing is I don't want to go through all that headache just to find out Destiny 2 has performance issues eks dee

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Destiny 2 and AC: Odyssey. As for D2, I tried max settings 1440p, and also lowest settings 720p with the same results, which made me think that the issues was somewhere in the game.

most likely, both games are pretty terribly optimized for pc.

[SeanTwig]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

It's not really 'some' reason,  it's your cpu not keeping up in certain games.

 

Also while probably not deciding,  the PSU,as I suspected, isn't very good and should be replaced as well. 

Mind telling me why I need to replace the PSU? I get that the CPU could be some $1000 beast, but i have not had one game actually take it to more than 60% usage.  I don't just have a spare $2k to just drop on the latest AMD cpu with pairing Mobo lmao

[NattyKathy]

30 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Well that's the thing, I can't seem to throw any more power at it. It's limited for some reason. Other games do get outrageous results.

 

 

Destiny 2 and AC: Odyssey. As for D2, I tried max settings 1440p, and also lowest settings 720p with the same results, which made me think that the issues was somewhere in the game.

Sounds like your GPU is using little power because it's utilization is low because it's being bottlenecked. The power limits are a maximum, there's no way to "force" the GPU to use more power if it doesn't need to.

 

Try testing with some silly settings, like 8K resolution and max everything and see if the GPU utilization and power usage will increase-I bet it will.

 

Just because your CPU utilization is capping out at ~60% doesn't mean there's not a CPU bottleneck- check what the utilization per-core is, I bet one or two are getting close to 90%+

[Mister Woof]

8700k might bottleneck a 6800xt a tiny bit in some games and resolutions, but everyone here is overplaying that and just glossing over the data point that OP is getting WORSE performance than a regular 1080.

 

Generally speaking, an 8700 is being bottlenecked by a regular 1080.

 

My 8700k doesn't really even bottleneck a 3080 in most games at 1440p+, so OP would definitely feel significant uplift from this upgrade, even if it's not 100% utilized.

 

Something is wrong.

 

Did you DDU or just install the new driver?

 

24GB 2133? That's a strange configuration. Make sure you are in dual channel. Enable XMP if you haven't.

 

Regarding AC Odyssey, I was running on a 5700XT (faster than a GTX 1080) and went to a 3080 - performance skyrocketed from barely managing 60fps at 1440p to well over 90. And GPU usage is pegged at 96%+. 

 

Albeit this is with a 5ghz OC - I don't believe that's enough to cover a disparity this high.

 

What cpu cooler do you have? What are your in game cpu temperature?

 

Is it an 8700 or 8700k? They both will run at 4.3ghz stock. If it is an 8700,  your results should mirror a stock 8700k provided cooling is adequate and your motherboard doesn't power limit throttle.

[SeanTwig]

1 hour ago, Natty Ice said:

Just because your CPU utilization is capping out at ~60% doesn't mean there's not a CPU bottleneck- check what the utilization per-core is, I bet one or two are getting close to 90%+

Did some testing with Task Manager open watching the cores.  AC: O seems to run at around 80% CPU with some of the even cores (physical cores) getting close to 95%.  Tested Destiny 2 with this and it's even worse.  The game basically ignores all hyperthreading and ONLY runs on physical cores. Total usage is like 60% but it's using 99% 1st core, 95% second, 85% 3rd and so on.  Are we seriously in 2021 and we still have developers optimising their games for 4 physical cores? I though that shit ended when Skyrim's biggest flaw was dual core only lmao.

 

18 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

8700k might bottleneck a 6800xt a tiny bit in some games and resolutions, but everyone here is overplaying that and just glossing over the data point that OP is getting WORSE performance than a regular 1080.

This^ 

 

20 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Did you DDU or just install the new driver?

 

24GB 2133? That's a strange configuration. Make sure you are in dual channel. Enable XMP if you haven't.

I just installed a new driver.  I have never heard of DDU so I am about to do some reading on what that is lol.  I've never had this issue with a GPU upgrade before.  Although, this would be the first time upgrading to a different manufacturer (Nvidia -> AMD).

 

The Ram situation was that I bought the fastest available Ram at the time in 8GB and was running it as my only system Ram. Then a few years later I bought a 16Gb stick to upgrade but I had to buy the same Mhz.  They are in the correct channels with the 16Gb one being closest to CPU (someone told me it made a difference).  I also looked last night and I couldn't find an option to enable XMP, although I am sure I did that a few years ago when I got the Mobo.  Would it always have an XMP option in BIOS? Or do some not have that option available? Seems strange if that's the case

25 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

What cpu cooler do you have? What are your in game cpu temperature?

I am still using the stock Intel cooler lol.  I wanted to upgrade it but tbh I never felt the need as most of the time my CPU never goes above 70C.

 

The thing that's weird to me is that I don't have any issues with Doom: Eternal. Thing runs so damn smooth.  That and my Time Spy score is fairly high? I don't know how to compare to other people that have the same setups though

[Mister Woof]

17 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Did some testing with Task Manager open watching the cores.  AC: O seems to run at around 80% CPU with some of the even cores (physical cores) getting close to 95%.  Tested Destiny 2 with this and it's even worse.  The game basically ignores all hyperthreading and ONLY runs on physical cores. Total usage is like 60% but it's using 99% 1st core, 95% second, 85% 3rd and so on.  Are we seriously in 2021 and we still have developers optimising their games for 4 physical cores? I though that shit ended when Skyrim's biggest flaw was dual core only lmao.

 

This^ 

 

I just installed a new driver.  I have never heard of DDU so I am about to do some reading on what that is lol.  I've never had this issue with a GPU upgrade before.  Although, this would be the first time upgrading to a different manufacturer (Nvidia -> AMD).

 

The Ram situation was that I bought the fastest available Ram at the time in 8GB and was running it as my only system Ram. Then a few years later I bought a 16Gb stick to upgrade but I had to buy the same Mhz.  They are in the correct channels with the 16Gb one being closest to CPU (someone told me it made a difference).  I also looked last night and I couldn't find an option to enable XMP, although I am sure I did that a few years ago when I got the Mobo.  Would it always have an XMP option in BIOS? Or do some not have that option available? Seems strange if that's the case

I am still using the stock Intel cooler lol.  I wanted to upgrade it but tbh I never felt the need as most of the time my CPU never goes above 70C.

 

The thing that's weird to me is that I don't have any issues with Doom: Eternal. Thing runs so damn smooth.  That and my Time Spy score is fairly high? I don't know how to compare to other people that have the same setups though

1. Use DDU - Follow the instructions for new video card installation. It's especially important when swapping between teams.

 

2. I haven't personally run RAM in mixed capacity like that, but it should offer flex mode and give you dual channel up to 8gb per channel - but it's possible at 2133 you'll be experiencing performance issues in cpu intensive games because of that speed. I also don't know how well flex mode works in practice. XMP is in BIOS, it will default to JDEC spec until you tell it go faster. What speed was it supposed to be? 2133 wasn't the fastest DDR4 when the 8700 launched.

 

3. What are your cpu frequency while gaming? It should be 4.3ghz, if it isn't throttling. The 8700/k is typically faster still than almost all of Ryzen 3000 at gaming, and unless it's throttling, should give you significant gains when moving from a GTX 1080 to a 6800xt. 

 

4. It may be your memory holding you back.

[SeanTwig]

19 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Use DDU - Follow the instructions for new video card installation. It's especially important when swapping between teams.

This DDU seems like I am going to have a lot of issues.  Maybe it'll just work, but these things seldom just work in my experience lol.

 

I'll give it a go and see if anything improves

[King of Memes]

11 hours ago, SeanTwig said:

TLDR: Do I have a bottleneck somewhere? Am I expecting too much of games to be coded a bit better?  Am I the only one that has noticed a trend that coding seems to be getting more and more bloated?  Am I just nuts?

 

After 6 months of delays and cancelled orders and scrambling around to get a good deal, I finally bought a 6800XT for $1700AUD.  Turns out, I could have saved all my headache and some cash by just sticking to my GTX 1080.

 

Long story, I installed all drivers and made sure my BIOS was up to date, and most of the games I was "saving" for my new upgrade, somehow run (slightly) worse.  At this point, I'm not sure if the game I am trying to run are just so badly optimised, or if I have some setting turned on (or off) that is causing all this headache.

 

I am at the end of my tether.  I've tried everything I can think of.  My Time Spy score was around 14k. Everything seems to be fine, however I am only getting at most 90W draw in games like AC: Odyssey and Destiny 2.  GPU usage (as well as CPU and Ram) tend to sit around 50% and none spike to 100%.

 

I did have a daisy chained set-up for my GPU (which i have now rectified), but it didn't make any improvement. At most, under Time Spy testing I get 272W at default clock and settings.

 

Thought I was going mad so i installed Doom: Eternal (bless id and their coding) and I get 300 fps at Ultra Nightmare settings running at 1440p.  I get capped 120fps in EFT as well, which, to my dismay, made me no better at the game. 

 

Who knew that I would spend the first 48hrs of a new GPU, screwing around with in-game settings trying to get over 80fps at 1440p

definetely upgrade the cpu. if u dont want to upgrade the mobo, then get maybe the 9900k idk, its pretty cheap nowadays.

[dizmo]

11 hours ago, SeanTwig said:

Gonna be honest, I do not know what that is? just deleting Nvidia drivers? Could that really be causing issues in select few games? Is there a preferred method? Or just move to trash?

If you Google it, you'll find it. Download it, and use it to take out the old drivers. It's pretty simple to use.

[dizmo]

11 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Most likely CPU is a huge bottleneck, and maybe PSU as well,  and maybe not even DDU drivers.

 

But the main thing here is the CPU isn't a good match, and it's not as simple as 'bad coding' .

 

22 minutes ago, KingofMemes said:

definetely upgrade the cpu. if u dont want to upgrade the mobo, then get maybe the 9900k idk, its pretty cheap nowadays.

 

Really guys? The 8700 is no slouch. It's very unlikely that it's causing that much of a bottleneck, if any at all.

[King of Memes]

25 minutes ago, dizmo said:

 

 

Really guys? The 8700 is no slouch. It's very unlikely that it's causing that much of a bottleneck, if any at all.

it is definetely very old though. 

[dizmo]

Just now, KingofMemes said:

it is definetely very old though. 

4 years is not very old. Especially in terms of CPUs.

[King of Memes]

4 minutes ago, dizmo said:

4 years is not very old. Especially in terms of CPUs.

well yes, but its still old enough that i could be causing issues. sure, cpus can last a long time, but it could be bottlenecking his gpu. Its very powerful.

[IkeaGnome]

10 minutes ago, KingofMemes said:

well yes, but its still old enough that i could be causing issues. sure, cpus can last a long time, but it could be bottlenecking his gpu. Its very powerful.

He shouldn't have LOST frames going from a 1080 to 6800xt. Yes, they will potentially be bottlenecked and not use the GPU to it's full potential, but they still should have GAINED some frames especially at 1440p. 

@SeanTwig Any luck with DDU?