I bought an AMD 6800XT that runs worse than my GTX 1080. Am I going nuts?

[SeanTwig]

Okay I reset everything to default and started the system up. 

 

First thing I did was go to OCCT to check what my voltage is at. On idle it's sitting at 1.4V and around 4.7Ghz. 

 

I then start a test just with the default settings to get a baseline. As soon as I start the test, the voltage drops to 1.125V and the clock speed drops to 3.7Ghz. Can someone kindly explain to me why my clocks and voltage are going down while the CPU is under 100% load? Is this not backwards? Do I need to install the CPU pins up because I'm in Australia? 

 

Forgive my brain here but humour me. I was under the assumption that when you have a need for more clock speed because you are running a stress test, you need MORE voltage to keep the HIGHER clock speed. Not the exact opposite of that. I guess I am just nuts. 

 

Screenshot for proof. Also, it's been running for 10 minutes now and my CPU has reached a maximum of 54C and the VRM is sitting at 64C

 

 

 

EDIT

 

I ended the test after posting and my voltage and frequency went back up. Lmao what a fucking clown fiesta 

 

 

[Mister Woof]

I have not used OCCT, but it is normal for voltage to drop under load. Usually you use Load Line Calibration to reduce this vdroop. Vdroop in itself is a good thing, but you need a certain voltage to remain stable when you overclock. 

 

What do you have your LLC set to? Also, I recommend RealBench for stress testing, it's more intensive than something like Aida64 or XTU normal test, but is also realistic in that it is real software tests and better represents your real world environment.

[Lostsoul29]

I read allot of these comments, my question is have you also checked your thermal paste on the cpu? If it's not properly spread or getting dry it can cause hot spots that you won't necessarily see on any temp sensor. Is the card bios and/or chipset drivers up to date. And your mb bios definitelysounds like an issue. Make sure you find the right one and do it through your bios. 

 

As far as overclocking, if your scores aren't going up, I'd backtrack a little too see if that's an improvement. I had a big difference turning voltage down on intel and amd. I tend to find Intel Extreme Tuning Utility/Ryzen master are easiest to use for cpu.

 

On my brother's computer he had a similar issue. It was as easy as cleaning up processes and checking if certain apps are causing driver issues. Idr the programs but after I ditched them he had the highest benchmark for his hardware.

[Craftyawesome]

8 hours ago, SeanTwig said:

Okay I reset everything to default and started the system up. 

 

First thing I did was go to OCCT to check what my voltage is at. On idle it's sitting at 1.4V and around 4.7Ghz. 

 

I then start a test just with the default settings to get a baseline. As soon as I start the test, the voltage drops to 1.125V and the clock speed drops to 3.7Ghz. Can someone kindly explain to me why my clocks and voltage are going down while the CPU is under 100% load? Is this not backwards? Do I need to install the CPU pins up because I'm in Australia? 

 

Forgive my brain here but humour me. I was under the assumption that when you have a need for more clock speed because you are running a stress test, you need MORE voltage to keep the HIGHER clock speed. Not the exact opposite of that. I guess I am just nuts. 

 

Screenshot for proof. Also, it's been running for 10 minutes now and my CPU has reached a maximum of 54C and the VRM is sitting at 64C

 

 

 

EDIT

 

I ended the test after posting and my voltage and frequency went back up. Lmao what a fucking clown fiesta 

 

 

My understanding is that vcore is a better reading to use than VID, so look at that instead. Maybe try raising the power limits in the bios? 

[Lostsoul29]

2 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

I have not used OCCT, but it is normal for voltage to drop under load. Usually you use Load Line Calibration to reduce this vdroop. Vdroop in itself is a good thing, but you need a certain voltage to remain stable when you overclock. 

 

What do you have your LLC set to? Also, I recommend RealBench for stress testing, it's more intensive than something like Aida64 or XTU normal test, but is also realistic in that it is real software tests and better represents your real world environment.

Agreed, I use 3D Mark for tests but xtu and RM I use to oc

[SeanTwig]

9 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

Vdroop in itself is a good thing, but you need a certain voltage to remain stable when you overclock. 

 

What do you have your LLC set to?

Vdroop is a funny sounding word lol. 

 

Uhh I did see LLC, but I couldn't set it from a drop down menu. Figured that in order to change it I had to hit capital H for High and Capital S for Standard. It took me 20 minutes of hitting random keys until I got those results. So what do I set it to? High or standard? Also, why do I have my voltage going up to 1.4V on default? 

 

6 hours ago, Lostsoul29 said:

I read allot of these comments, my question is have you also checked your thermal paste on the cpu?

It's brand new thermal paste that was applied to the AIO cooler that I just bought two days ago. Plus, temps are very low across the board. Also it can't be related to apps as I recently reset my windows and wiped my boot drive. 

 

6 hours ago, Craftyawesome said:

My understanding is that vcore is a better reading to use than VID, so look at that instead. Maybe try raising the power limits in the bios?

Where do I find that? God my BIOS is so garbage. Is there a way to change the bios to something that actually explains shit without buying a new mobo. Also, iirc, I think I did adjust Vcore in BIOS instead of VID. I don't even know where to find that setting in BIOS lol 

[Mister Woof]

Just now, SeanTwig said:

Vdroop is a funny sounding word lol. 

 

Uhh I did see LLC, but I couldn't set it from a drop down menu. Figured that in order to change it I had to hit capital H for High and Capital S for Standard. It took me 20 minutes of hitting random keys until I got those results. So what do I set it to? High or standard? Also, why do I have my voltage going up to 1.4V on default? 

 

It's brand new thermal paste that was applied to the AIO cooler that I just bought two days ago. Plus, temps are very low across the board. Also it can't be related to apps as I recently reset my windows and wiped my boot drive. 

 

Where do I find that? God my BIOS is so garbage. Is there a way to change the bios to something that actually explains shit without buying a new mobo. Also, iirc, I think I did adjust Vcore in BIOS instead of VID. I don't even know where to find that setting in BIOS lol 

Yeah, that sounds like that board has a much more condensed down BIOS. The Gigabyte boards I have many more settings options for LLC.

[SeanTwig]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

Yeah, that sounds like that board has a much more condensed down BIOS. The Gigabyte boards I have many more settings options for LLC.

I checked for a bios update and it said it's up to date (2019). Please get me out of this hell 

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I checked for a bios update and it said it's up to date (2019). Please get me out of this hell 

LoL dunno man, set it to high I guess. See what happens.

[SeanTwig]

9 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

LoL dunno man, set it to high I guess. See what happens.

I'll try that when I get home. I feel like I'm a blind man with a stick smashing buttons lmao. I don't remember overclocking to be this complex, although maybe it's changed in 10 years lol 

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I checked for a bios update and it said it's up to date (2019). Please get me out of this hell 

Your definition of hell seems to be a lot more plush than the standard one. “I can only OC to 4.2 all core!  I need more!” Isnt exactly the level of awful normally associated with hell. 

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Your definition of hell seems to be a lot more plush than the standard one. “I can only OC to 4.2 all core!  I need more!” Isnt exactly the level of awful normally associated with hell. 

First world problems, right?

 

I just got my 4000mt/s kit of DDR4 and installed it into my 10900k. Enjoying it, but I definitely complained about the "slow" 2 day delay on shipping.

 

 

[SeanTwig]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Your definition of hell seems to be a lot more plush than the standard one. “I can only OC to 4.2 all core!  I need more!” Isnt exactly the level of awful normally associated with hell. 

LoL I do see the irony in this, however from my perspective, I've been deliberating on this upgrade for months. I was only. Going to get a gpu. Which turned into ram because bottleneck. Which turned into cpu and cooler. Which may turn into motherboard. And yet on top of all this spending and all these extreme upgrades, I still have 70% gpu usage in my games with 70fps. 

 

My definition of hell is that did I just spend $2k for a 10% upgrade? At this point it seems so. Talk about buyers remorse lol 

[Bitter]

That bios sounds annoyingly limited, I'd be frustrated too!

 

How I run my voltages for overclocking is to set a voltage offset with the middle LLC that gets me stable and then start dropping the voltage offset and LLC if possible. Watch out for transitional voltages causing instability, you may need to tinker with C states to keep the voltage from dropping too much or too fast when coming off loads or from not jumping up fast enough when hitting sudden loads. It's a balancing act of max speed vs reasonable voltages and heat. I tend to err on the side of reasonable and stable vs maximum speeds.

[Craftyawesome]

2 hours ago, SeanTwig said:

Where do I find that? God my BIOS is so garbage. Is there a way to change the bios to something that actually explains shit without buying a new mobo. Also, iirc, I think I did adjust Vcore in BIOS instead of VID. I don't even know where to find that setting in BIOS lol 

VID was a reading, not something you set. And power limit was in one of your screenshots IIRC.

[SeanTwig]

54 minutes ago, Bitter said:

That bios sounds annoyingly limited, I'd be frustrated too!

 

How I run my voltages for overclocking is to set a voltage offset with the middle LLC that gets me stable and then start dropping the voltage offset and LLC if possible. 

I don't know exactly what the LLC does, but learning via trial and error on this mobo is excedingly frustrating 

[SeanTwig]

1 minute ago, Craftyawesome said:

VID was a reading, not something you set. And power limit was in one of your screenshots IIRC.

Yea those power limits I set through XTU. Like, I understand why everyone is saying don't use XTU it's shite, but that's how bad my BIOS is. XTU is easier to navigate lol. 

 

I think I'm going to try again tonight to mess with the LLC that @Mister Woofsaid. I have a feeling that all the settings I have set to auto are fucking with my voltages somehow. Coz there is a long ass list and all of them say auto, but don't tell you what they DO on auto lmao. Like, don't worry, papa Intel is gonna take care of those settings for you. Don't you worry about the 1.45V and throttling at 50C, we got it handled 

[Bitter]

14 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

I don't know exactly what the LLC does, but learning via trial and error on this mobo is excedingly frustrating 

LLC (Load Line Calibration) compensates for VDroop, but often it can be far too aggressive and push CPU voltages too high under load.  A good board with good power delivery doesn't need high LLC but they often run high LLC as default because stability can be improved but if you're pushing the voltage up high to OC and don't take into account LLC boosting it further you can get yourself into the dangerzone and damage the CPU.

[SeanTwig]

7 minutes ago, Bitter said:

dangerzone

Welcome to the dangerzone! Haha

 

But yea I think I get it. LLC basically gives your CPU more load as it needs it but if you're already increasing the base voltage, and LLC is still giving voltage it can accumulate to dangerous levels 

[Bitter]

40 minutes ago, SeanTwig said:

Welcome to the dangerzone! Haha

 

But yea I think I get it. LLC basically gives your CPU more voltage as it needs it but if you're already increasing the base voltage, and LLC is still giving voltage it can accumulate to dangerous levels 

Kind of yes. So dynamic core voltage do this first part already. Voltage rises and falls with load and you use offsets to alter this up or down by whatever amount from the baseline setting. You can run static voltage too but it's very wasteful when the CPU is idling.

LLC is ontop of the voltage you set and phases into play as voltage droops under load due to reasons like heat raising resistance within the VRM, within the CPU, power loss along traces in the motherboard/cpu socket losses, etc.

 

I prefer to use dynamic voltage and offsets with just enough LLC to keep my voltage where I expect it/need it to be at. I've had the best luck with system stability and efficiency using this general method. My way is not the only way or necessarily the right way.

 

[SeanTwig]

27 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Kind of yes. So dynamic core voltage do this first part already. Voltage rises and falls with load and you use offsets to alter this up or down by whatever amount from the baseline setting. You can run static voltage too but it's very wasteful when the CPU is idling.

LLC is ontop of the voltage you set and phases into play as voltage droops under load due to reasons like heat raising resistance within the VRM, within the CPU, power loss along traces in the motherboard/cpu socket losses, etc.

 

I prefer to use dynamic voltage and offsets with just enough LLC to keep my voltage where I expect it/need it to be at. I've had the best luck with system stability and efficiency using this general method. My way is not the only way or necessarily the right way.

 

Hmm that's very interesting. I though there was only one way of overclocking. Increase mhz until it crashes due to low power to the cpu, at which point you increase voltage. Rinse and repeat. Very interesting to learn about the offsets. Now it makes more sense why people would use a negative offset (presumably to save power in idle states). 

 

With regards to the LLC, if I am increasing voltage to 1.35 (from what I presume the baseline would be 1V?), then would I need to put the LLC to High? Also, I would assume that in my case the dynamic voltage is the reason my CPU is cracking out 1.45V seemingly when idle and whenever it's under load it droops? That's something I still need to learn more about 

[Bitter]

Most good motherboards have many settings for LLC, mine has 5 steps for this mid tier Asus board for AMD Ryzen. I suspect that board may be a bit subpar for the kind of overclocking you're looking to do. Standard is probably the Intel spec for LLC and High is probably whatever GB thinks sounded good I guess. You probably should set a static voltage and see what the two LLC's do to bump that up under load so you better understand what you're working with. Last GB board that I saw LLC like that on was a $70 brand new board from Amazon for a budget Ryzen build I did for someone.

[SeanTwig]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

Most good motherboards have many settings for LLC, mine has 5 steps for this mid tier Asus board for AMD Ryzen. I suspect that board may be a bit subpar for the kind of overclocking you're looking to do. Standard is probably the Intel spec for LLC and High is probably whatever GB thinks sounded good I guess. You probably should set a static voltage and see what the two LLC's do to bump that up under load so you better understand what you're working with. Last GB board that I saw LLC like that on was a $70 brand new board from Amazon for a budget Ryzen build I did for someone.

It is a Z370 board, but maybe it's because it is mATX?  I didn't think that changed the BIOS for the manufacturer though.  I do have another B350 board from Gigabyte that is basically unused, but I can't be arsed digging through the registry to find my windows 10 key to transfer it all.  Plus, I was under the assumption that Z series boards were better for OC'ing anyway.

 

As far as the LLC goes, what I'm going to try do is set to High and then check voltage. I might also try to find out where the dynamic voltage setting is and set it to 1.35V or something static.  I definitely think that's why I am getting such high voltages in my monitoring programs.  Should I just be looking at Vcore in HWiNFO64?  My vague understanding is one of them is a reading for what voltage the CPU is asking for vs what voltage the CPU is currently getting.

[Bitter]

There's different tiers of motherboards in each chipset, there's good Z370 and not so good Z370. Yours sounds the latter sadly.

[SeanTwig]

3 minutes ago, Bitter said:

There's different tiers of motherboards in each chipset, there's good Z370 and not so good Z370. Yours sounds the latter sadly.

I mean, as long as it can reach 5Ghz or even 4.9 or something similar.  Atm, I am running stock 3.6Ghz with some weird boosting going on.  I understand that I likely won't be able to go to the moon so to speak with this mobo but, hopefully I can at least get what I paid for