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There are roughly $140 billion worth of Bitcoins in lost wallets

Jet_ski
By Jet_ski
in Tech News
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Posted
14 hours ago, imreloadin said:

 

 

My original comment was in regards to Bitcoin being a blight on our environment. All of that energy used and wasted solely for some electric fiat currency. I never mentioned blockchain, not sure why you decided to get all up in arms against me with that...

 

Also in regards to your GTA comment, people aren't out buying dozens of GPUs to play GTA 24 hours a day now are they? That comparison is completely nonsensical.

 

This is the type of thing I'm talking about regarding cryptocurrency:

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/

I'm sorry but I don't trust that website at all. The numbers they use are cited from BitcoinEnergyConsumption.com which doesn't exist and redirects to their own website digiconomist.net. So all their numbers are self reported, they also use tweets for supporting evidence, and it's a shitty wordpress website with a big patreon donate button on top. It looks like a clickbait website with controversial numbers to get more traffic, which it apparently did perfectly. The GTA V comment was just a jab at a popular game that's had a lot of concurrent players so it's a large amount of power being used to play/host the game and it does nothing to contribute to society. I personally disagree with that and say it provides entertainment but I'm using the same logic as to why crypto would be considered "useless" or a "waste"

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Just now, pas008 said:

same shit with gas and is a limited resource

prices fluctuate

now are you going to say you can only buy 100 gallons a month because it is directly affecting the quality of life for others?

If there was a lack of gas available (in that some people couldn't get gas), then yea there should be a limit.  In fact it's akin to the 1973 oil crisis, there was rationing and restrictions put in place.  Or similarly water, there are constant restrictions put in place (and in the case of business that require water, a document form had to be submitted to get an exemption).  So yea, same thing with other sectors...e.g. in Iran right now, cryptocurrencies are legitly an issue.

 

19 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Isn't this exactly what people were concerned about with banks in the 1940s and even today? The USD could be worth $0 when I wake up next morning. I highly doubt it but the same logic applies to any currency that's not backed by anything. 

USD, CAD, GBP, etc are all backed by governments.  The concept that the government will honor the currency is partially what keeps it from collapse...well back in the day the concept of fiat money was, but I can't think of a country that has fiat money anymore.  An example of what you are looking for is the Papiermark, where there was hyperinflation.  So yes you are correct it can happen to currencies.

 

The difference between government backed currenies and cryptocurrencies is the fact that it is "backed" to an extent by a government (which has rules and regulations regarding the currency).  As it stands, things such as bitcoin are too volatile and way to speculative.  It is very much akin to Tulip Mania (back in 1637), where tulip bulbs became like currency.  Bitcoin only has value because people say it has value...it to me is just like a stock as opposed to a currency.

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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4 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

If there was a lack of gas available (in that some people couldn't get gas), then yea there should be a limit.  In fact it's akin to the 1973 oil crisis, there was rationing and restrictions put in place.  Or similarly water, there are constant restrictions put in place (and in the case of business that require water, a document form had to be submitted to get an exemption).  So yea, same thing with other sectors...e.g. in Iran right now, cryptocurrencies are legitly an issue.

 

USD, CAD, GBP, etc are all backed by governments.  The concept that the government will honor the currency is partially what keeps it from collapse...well back in the day the concept of fiat money was, but I can't think of a country that has fiat money anymore.  An example of what you are looking for is the Papiermark, where there was hyperinflation.  So yes you are correct it can happen to currencies.

 

The difference between government backed currenies and cryptocurrencies is the fact that it is "backed" to an extent by a government (which has rules and regulations regarding the currency).  As it stands, things such as bitcoin are too volatile and way to speculative.  It is very much akin to Tulip Mania (back in 1637), where tulip bulbs became like currency.  Bitcoin only has value because people say it has value...it to me is just like a stock as opposed to a currency.

thats on the areas to enforce it their caps if they have them in place

cant blame xx on being the issue if there is nothing in place

if there is then they arent following the law, which then its a problem which is spoken about in the iran topic

doesnt matter if they make plastic bags or crytpo because thats irrelevant

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6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

thats on the areas to enforce it their caps if they have them in place

cant blame xx on being the issue if there is nothing in place

if there is then they arent following the law, which then its a problem which is spoken about in the iran topic

doesnt matter if they make plastic bags or crytpo because thats irrelevant

It's about the discussion point.  The fact that it is having an impact on some electrical grids does mean there needs to be appropriate discussion on whether the trend should be allowed.

 

I would like to point out as well, the people who I do know that do cryptocurrencies are strickly not zoned as commercial.  It's akin to how LTT used a non-commercial (residential) zoned house as a studio for a while.

 

As a note as well, single use plastic bags, while legal, was creating a large enough of an issue that an additional tax was put on it (and I think now is set to be banned).  It's about having a discussion about whether the pros outweighs the cons.

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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14 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

It does matter, even if it is legal, but again, not talking about legality here. 

 

Plastic bags can be reused for no additional energy, can be recycled, etc.

 

Energy spent on a discarded block is literally wasted, and that's the bulk of the mining.

 

The solution is obvious: you spend more energy, you pay way more for the unit of energy. Super easy to do that once you get the distribution of consumption.

 

Take 80% of the distribution and keep current fee. Double tariffs for each additional 5%, and you will gradually reduce overall load of the public network until you reach a certain goal (probably the installed capacity - safety margin for 50y extreme events).

recycling costs are there and you think its cheap?

 

solution for certain areas yes but that isnt a mining or whatever issue thats the areas issue like i said post before your response

 

tariff? you mean overage fees?

thats up to the area with said issues if they have them

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8 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It's about the discussion point.  The fact that it is having an impact on some electrical grids does mean there needs to be appropriate discussion on whether the trend should be allowed.

 

I would like to point out as well, the people who I do know that do cryptocurrencies are strickly not zoned as commercial.  It's akin to how LTT used a non-commercial (residential) zoned house as a studio for a while.

 

As a note as well, single use plastic bags, while legal, was creating a large enough of an issue that an additional tax was put on it (and I think now is set to be banned).  It's about having a discussion about whether the pros outweighs the cons.

exactly you cant blame the bag manufacturers or users until something is put into place

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

exactly you cant blame the bag manufacturers or users until something is put into place

The point that started the argument of electrical usage though was regarding how mining is creating environmental and consumer issues.  It's a discussion point, and you response to that is essentially that the people doing it aren't doing anything wrong...that misses the entire point of the post.  It's like telling people who are pushing to eliminate plastic bags that it's not illegal so they should be allowed to continue doing it.  The viewpoint being that the amount of electical usage and GPU supply is hurting the environment and consumers, which makes things such as bitcoin a "blight".

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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And....this is why I have the 21 word pass phrase somewhere.  That where wont be forgotten.  Plus its more than 21 words but you have to se the puzzle to get the right 21 word answer :)

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17 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The point that started the argument of electrical usage though was regarding how mining is creating environmental and consumer issues.  It's a discussion point, and you response to that is essentially that the people doing it aren't doing anything wrong...that misses the entire point of the post.  It's like telling people who are pushing to eliminate plastic bags that it's not illegal so they should be allowed to continue doing it.  The viewpoint being that the amount of electical usage and GPU supply is hurting the environment and consumers, which makes things such as bitcoin a "blight".

consumer issues has nothing to do with it a gpu consumer is a gpu consumer

if i want to buy 1000 3090 to piss on and bash them I can if i pay for them

if i want to buy a pallet of amd 5900x and make necklaces out of them I can

and for electricity, its none of you business what i do in my business or personal life on what i use electricity for unless i'm doing something illegal

if i want to waste energy turning a non insulated open warehouse into polar arctic or heat haven, i can if i want to pay for it until there are regulations/laws etc put into place

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7 minutes ago, pas008 said:

consumer issues has nothing to do with it a gpu consumer is a gpu consumer

if i want to buy 1000 3090 to piss and bash them I can if i pay for them

if i want to buy a pallet of amd 5900x and make necklaces out of them I can

and for electricity, its none of you business what i do in my business or personal life on what i use electricity for unless i'm doing something illegal

You are missing the entire point.  Under your logic, no one should be allowed to argue against Google data mining user data, or breaching what people think of as privacy.  The entire point is that bitcoin mining is having an impact on more than just it's sector.  It doesn't matter if it's not "illegal", it matters that it is having real world impacts on electrical grids, which is why it should become a discussion of whether it's something to be regulated.  And here's the other thing, it is other people's business what you use electricity for if you draw enough electricity to effect the grid.

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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13 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You are missing the entire point.  Under your logic, no one should be allowed to argue against Google data mining user data, or breaching what people think of as privacy.  The entire point is that bitcoin mining is having an impact on more than just it's sector.  It doesn't matter if it's not "illegal", it matters that it is having real world impacts on electrical grids, which is why it should become a discussion of whether it's something to be regulated.  And here's the other thing, it is other people's business what you use electricity for if you draw enough electricity to effect the grid.

think you are missing the point

you are regulating what you think is important for electricity uses which all should be equal

if you want to go the data route

which data is more important yours mine or the nexts?

you think we should restrict how data is used over the web?

oh wait you pay for certain amount and speed and once you g over you pay extra

if you dont have caps then you shouldnt be able to use more?

 what data is considered wasteful? isnt majority of it?

 

as we talk in a 140 billion(wasteful) of bitcoin thread

large enough to buy few countries

 

 

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5 minutes ago, pas008 said:

think you are missing the point

you are regulating what you think is important for electricity uses which all should be equal

if you want to go the data route

which data is more important yours mine or the nexts?

you think we should restrict how data is used over the web?

oh wait you pay for certain amount and speed and once you g over you pay extra

if you dont have caps then you shouldnt be able to use more?

 what data is considered wasteful? isnt majority of it?

 

as we talk in a 140 billion(wasteful) of bitcoin thread

large enough to buy few countries

 

 

I won't be responding anymore, as it is getting too off topic...but just saying.  You are the one missing the point.  The right to electricity should not be all treated as equal.  In cases where brownouts happen there needs to be a discussion on usage vs benefits.

 

Data is also already partially regulated/restricted.  e.g. When it was people in the same coaxial node, if you are a major downloader/uploader and the people in the neighbourhood are adversely affected then yea your traffic should be limited (and often times it does)

 

That is $140 billion (assessed value)...that means the energy that went into mining those bitcoins are lost forever, and the continued energy to maintain.  The whole point of the other person's post was the amount of wastage, and the real world negative impact it is having.  Using an argument  like 'it's my energy I can do as I please' is not in any form a valid counterpoint to a discussion on energy wastage and the real world impacts it is having.

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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One of them is me. 

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 (='.'=)

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2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

but I can't think of a country that has fiat money anymore. 

Pretty much every country has fiat money now? Post-Bretton Woods that is the standard. 

 

Bit besides the point, but just wanted to correct that. 

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23 minutes ago, Blade of Grass said:

Pretty much every country has fiat money now? Post-Bretton Woods that is the standard. 

 

Bit besides the point, but just wanted to correct that. 

Whoops yea, I totally meant to say most currencies were on a fiat system.  That was my poor linguistics at work there

3735928559 - Beware of the dead beef

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1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I won't be responding anymore, as it is getting too off topic...but just saying.  You are the one missing the point.  The right to electricity should not be all treated as equal.  In cases where brownouts happen there needs to be a discussion on usage vs benefits.

 

Data is also already partially regulated/restricted.  e.g. When it was people in the same coaxial node, if you are a major downloader/uploader and the people in the neighbourhood are adversely affected then yea your traffic should be limited (and often times it does)

 

That is $140 billion (assessed value)...that means the energy that went into mining those bitcoins are lost forever, and the continued energy to maintain.  The whole point of the other person's post was the amount of wastage, and the real world negative impact it is having.  Using an argument  like 'it's my energy I can do as I please' is not in any form a valid counterpoint to a discussion on energy wastage and the real world impacts it is having.

For starters waste, disposals, consumables, etc are part of everything to get something else most of the time "plastics in general"

Electricity to get digital good is common

If there are brown outs etc that's not the fault of someone using it for intented uses example miners, home shops, etc

Business and residential places have  amperage limits

Blame the power companies for not having or using regulations and not having infrastructure to handle it

This is the digital age is it not

Requires electricity right

 

What dictates energy wastage?

Having 15 vampire electronics in your house?

You gaming 1000 hours in a game to get a digital item in a game?

Having 12 camera security system?

Having 11.2 sound system in your house?

Mining some digital currency? 

 

Like I said it's none of your business what I'm using my energy I pay for on

I am not a miner but what they do behind closed doors and follow the law/regulations then it's none of my business

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7 hours ago, pas008 said:

question is how is what a company or person does any of your business if they are following the laws and paying for it?

You must be one of those climate change deniers to have that level of doesn't give a shit...

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