Bloomberg’s source spills the beans on Apple’s 2021-2022 CPUs and it’s crazy

[Lord Vile]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That's not how capacitance works. A capacitor has a rated voltage, you can charge it to a certain voltage, anything you like below the maximum. The amount of energy stored is the capacitance, the uF of the capacitor.

 

A 12v 100uF capacitor charged to 12v is 12 volts. A 12v 1000uF capacitor charged to 12v is 12 volts. There are no high voltage capacitors in any computer, the highest you will find is in the PSU and that depends on country as to the actual charged voltage but nothing will be above 500V.

Maybe you should look at the difference between what's stored and what's discharged by a capacitor when time is taken into account.

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s following a digression about someone wanting to refill his AIO cooler. And someone suggested dunking it in a bucket.  Everything else grew out of that.

There is nothing to that in anything I can see on the thread that you have posted in or myself. 

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

There is nothing to that in anything I can see on the thread that you have posted in or myself. 

Then where did the talk of water come from? It doesn’t matter. People are talking about different things at cross intents and neither has anything to do with the thread subject

[S w a t s o n]

I would actually consider apple hardware if it was price/perf competitive, but I'm sure they would find a way to lock down a GPU to only apple approved games in the highly unlikely event they made and sold CPU/GPU for use with motherboards. As long as their hardware is locked to their OS, I'll pass.

[Commodus]

8 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

I would actually consider apple hardware if it was price/perf competitive, but I'm sure they would find a way to lock down a GPU to only apple approved games in the highly unlikely event they made and sold CPU/GPU for use with motherboards. As long as their hardware is locked to their OS, I'll pass.

Why would Apple lock games to its GPUs? The issue is whether or not game devs want to port games to Metal, not whether you'll get to run games outside of the App Store.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Maybe you should look at the difference between what's stored and what's discharged by a capacitor when time is taken into account.

I have a very large amount of electronics experience, what you said is just wrong. Simple as that. Voltage cannot just increase like that, discharge rate is current and the voltage would decrease over time. The voltage can only decay from the charged voltage.

 

Now before you reply saying I'm wrong or something I actually have National Certificate in Electronics, I've also done Engineering papers, I've taught electronics and I also build and repair my own electrical devices. Additional to that there is a registered electrician in my family and also we have a long term family friend that is an electrical engineer. Basically I do know what I'm talking about.

 

But there is actually no need to discuss this part more, simply letting you know that's not how it works.

[CarlBar]

12 hours ago, leadeater said:

I have a very large amount of electronics experience, what you said is just wrong. Simple as that. Voltage cannot just increase like that, discharge rate is current and the voltage would decrease over time. The voltage can only decay from the charged voltage.

 

Now before you reply saying I'm wrong or something I actually have National Certificate in Electronics, I've also done Engineering papers, I've taught electronics and I also build and repair my own electrical devices. Additional to that there is a registered electrician in my family and also we have a long term family friend that is an electrical engineer. Basically I do know what I'm talking about.

 

But there is actually no need to discuss this part more, simply letting you know that's not how it works.

 

Anyone who paid attention in school should know this. Sadly that seems to be too much for far too many *Insert Grumpy Old Man Noises*.

 

People might want to remember farmer can and do use electric fences with equal or greater voltage and current running through them than anything a pc component capacitor,. As someone who had several brushes with one whilst on holiday as a teenager, (it was on one side of a narrow pah to/from the beach), i can tell you they might sting, but they won't kill you.

[We Didnt_t start_the_fire]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:56 AM, Spindel said:

HOLY SHIT!

 

(if true)

I do wonder if they are doing it Apple itself, perhaps with and change and innovate on top of Imagine Gpu PowerVR or what's left of it that are still usable and the transfers of expertise and blocks processing. With AMD help since they are getting into SoC and into ARM and revived their skybridge project in another form. Or pre-emptively with Nvidia. One thing is for sure, it's not intel, and the Xe, upscaled or not.

 

Hope it do well and blown away everybody.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

3 hours ago, We Didnt_t start_the_fire said:

I do wonder if they are doing it Apple itself, perhaps with and change and innovate on top of Imagine Gpu PowerVR or what's left of it that are still usable and the transfers of expertise and blocks processing. With AMD help since they are getting into SoC and into ARM and revived their skybridge project in another form. Or pre-emptively with Nvidia. One thing is for sure, it's not intel, and the Xe, upscaled or not.

Doesn't Apple custom design their own GPU and CPU cores?

 

If memory serves me right, the first Apple designed CPU was the A6, and the first Apple designed GPU was the A11.

[Lord Vile]

19 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Then where did the talk of water come from? It doesn’t matter. People are talking about different things at cross intents and neither has anything to do with the thread subject

I think you've mixed threads up

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

I think you've mixed threads up

It’s possible.

[We Didnt_t start_the_fire]

10 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Doesn't Apple custom design their own GPU and CPU cores?

 

If memory serves me right, the first Apple designed CPU was the A6, and the first Apple designed GPU was the A11.

At the beginning, it was build on top Imagination technology IP blocks and architecture design licensed to Apple. Later on there is no news either way, than I suppose thy can use what is useble and what's left. Hope fromscratch yet build on top of existing inspiration and etc. 

[CarlBar]

9 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s possible.

 

You didn't, it started as a discussion about AIO's in relation to PC components, that allways refers to water loops. In fact in tech discussion terms i don't think I've ever heard AIO used to reefer to complete computer systems.

[Commodus]

11 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Doesn't Apple custom design their own GPU and CPU cores?

 

If memory serves me right, the first Apple designed CPU was the A6, and the first Apple designed GPU was the A11.

The first Apple chip was the A4 in 2010, for the original iPad (and later iPhone 4). Not sure when the first custom GPU tech arrived, although clearly PowerVR was the launching pad at first.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, CarlBar said:

 

You didn't, it started as a discussion about AIO's in relation to PC components, that allways refers to water loops. In fact in tech discussion terms i don't think I've ever heard AIO used to reefer to complete computer systems.

I have, or at least the phrase all-in-one.  iMacs would be all-in-one systems.  Main board, storage, and monitor in one piece.  I haven’t heard the acronym used in relation to them before.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, CarlBar said:

You didn't, it started as a discussion about AIO's in relation to PC components, that allways refers to water loops. In fact in tech discussion terms i don't think I've ever heard AIO used to reefer to complete computer systems.

39 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I have, or at least the phrase all-in-one.  iMacs would be all-in-one systems.  Main board, storage, and monitor in one piece.  I haven’t heard the acronym used in relation to them before.

AIO is often used to refer to "all-in-one" PCs which are PCs built into a monitor. The reason why you two probably haven't heard it before is because AOI Windows PCs are very uncommon, while the iMac (which is an AIO) is common so people that follows the Mac world has probably heard it before.

 

Here is an example of the phrase being used to describe an All-in-one PC from Asus.

ASUS Transformer AiO official: all-in-one PC dual-boots Android and Windows 8 | Engadget

 

If you want something more recent, PCMag recently did an article called:

The Best All-in-One Computers for 2020 (pcmag.com)

in it they say:

Quote

What you want: space savings, power, and flexibility, all from a single desktop computer. What you need: an all-in-one (AIO) PC. Our buying guide and deep-dive reviews will help you shop for one of these sleek machines. (We've tested all the latest models.)

 

 

I haven't followed your discussion but I saw some people get confused when the term AIO was used to refer to all-in-one PCs and people thought they were talking about water coolers. I just wanted to jump in and explain that yes, AIO is a term that can be used to refer to water coolers but also computers where the monitor and rest of the computer are all in integrated in each other (like the iMac).

[Letgomyleghoe]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:35 AM, Commodus said:

Apple is happy to repair things... it's just that many of its repairs now tend to involve replacing whole mainboards due to that integrated design.

yeah.... no 

dealing with apple repair is a pain in the ass and I am by far not the only one who has issues with them.

watch some louis rossmann videos on apple trying to charge $700 for a mainboard replacement when it's a piece that can be soldered on and off in 5 minutes.

or apple telling you to buy a new laptop because yours is water damaged when really it's a display cable.

 

Apple repair is bullshit.

[Bombastinator]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

AIO is often used to refer to "all-in-one" PCs which are PCs built into a monitor. The reason why you two probably haven't heard it before is because AOI Windows PCs are very uncommon, while the iMac (which is an AIO) is common so people that follows the Mac world has probably heard it before.

 

Here is an example of the phrase being used to describe an All-in-one PC from Asus.

ASUS Transformer AiO official: all-in-one PC dual-boots Android and Windows 8 | Engadget

 

If you want something more recent, PCMag recently did an article called:

The Best All-in-One Computers for 2020 (pcmag.com)

in it they say:

 

 

I haven't followed your discussion but I saw some people get confused when the term AIO was used to refer to all-in-one PCs and people thought they were talking about water coolers. I just wanted to jump in and explain that yes, AIO is a term that can be used to refer to water coolers but also computers where the monitor and rest of the computer are all in integrated in each other (like the iMac).

So you’re saying AIO in PCs commonly refers to liquid coolers, where when dealing with macs which do not generally use liquid coolers because they’re all prebuilts it refers to iMacs.  English sucks.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Bombastinator

[StDragon]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So you’re saying AIO in PCs commonly refers to liquid coolers, where when dealing with macs which do not generally use liquid coolers because they’re all prebuilts it refers to iMacs.  English sucks.

FYI, Dell sells both OptiPlex and Inspiron PCs in AIO formfactor. So AIO PCs are going to be OEM machines.

[Spindel]

8 minutes ago, StDragon said:

FYI, Dell sells both OptiPlex and Inspiron PCs in AIO formfactor. So AIO PCs are going to be OEM machines.

And HP have a bunch of AIO windows machines too

 

EDIT:// For the sake of this side discussion; AIO has been used for computers way longer than it has been a thing for water cooling in computers. 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, StDragon said:

FYI, Dell sells both OptiPlex and Inspiron PCs in AIO formfactor. So AIO PCs are going to be OEM machines.

They’ve practically always been that way.  The oldest thing I can think of would be the trash80 model3 was one such, and those are ancient.  There is older of course. The all-in-one form factor predates the ibmPC They were not generally referred to by the acronym though, but with the phrase all-in-one.  The weird bit is iMacs are only sort of all-in-ones because the keyboard is not part of the thing as it was in the trash80.

[LAwLz]

33 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So you’re saying AIO in PCs commonly refers to liquid coolers, where when dealing with macs which do not generally use liquid coolers because they’re all prebuilts it refers to iMacs.  English sucks.

Yes exactly, except AIO can also refer to an all-in-one PC. It's just less common.

 

AIO is a vague term that doesn't have any specific meaning. People have to look at the context to figure out what it means. 

[Commodus]

7 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

yeah.... no 

dealing with apple repair is a pain in the ass and I am by far not the only one who has issues with them.

watch some louis rossmann videos on apple trying to charge $700 for a mainboard replacement when it's a piece that can be soldered on and off in 5 minutes.

or apple telling you to buy a new laptop because yours is water damaged when really it's a display cable.

 

Apple repair is bullshit.

Oh, I won't pretend Apple service is always a walk in the park... but I also don't buy Louis Rossman's schtick wholesale. He's oversimplifying things, not to mention trying to steer people toward his repair shop. People worship him while he's trying to manipulate them.

 

And let's face it, the situation is frequently rougher for Windows laptops and some pre-built desktops. All the soldered-in components of the Mac, but now you get to spend hours on the phone for a mail-in replacement (because you didn't pay for onsite support) that's more likely to fail.

 

(I know it's anecdotal, but I know of more than one recent PC buyer who's had to send a system in multiple times to get a system that was actually fixed.)

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

10 hours ago, Commodus said:

The first Apple chip was the A4 in 2010

The A4 and A5 were both based off of the ARM-Cortex design. The A6 was the first one that Apple custom designed, and then the A7 was the one that shocked the industry when Apple went 64-bit years before ARM was supposed to.

 

And I just looked it up, the A11 was the first one to use custom GPU cores. All the prior ones used PowerVR or custom PowerVR implementations.

Quote

"A11 Bionic also integrates an Apple-designed GPU with a three-core design that delivers up to 30 percent faster graphics performance than the previous generation." - Apple

 

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

And let's face it, the situation is frequently rougher for Windows laptops and some pre-built desktops. All the soldered-in components of the Mac, but now you get to spend hours on the phone for a mail-in replacement (because you didn't pay for onsite support) that's more likely to fail.

I've not once had the same issues I've had with a windows laptop, usually because instead of them trying to sway me in to buying a new phone/laptop/watch etc, It's still covered by warranty and I just have to ship it back in.

 

also, more recently, I had to get on of my airpods replaced, the package arrived way late in shipping, then I ended up having to work two double shifts then next two days and completely forgot about mailing my airpods back in. I know this is my fault for not getting it in, but apple support was in no way sympathetic and clearly would much rather leave me with the $90 bill.