Manditory Accounts ?

[oldSock]

Good day to you the reader.

 

Please note the following. This discussion is about mandatory accounts and what it means.

This discussion will look at some aspects of Mandatory Accounts and what it means. 

 

If you feel the above may trigger you in any way. PLEASE click away now. 

 

 

 

So today a friend of mine showed me a few reviews of a new VR Device. Overall it looks good and i personally like the idea of VR. 

 

But in one of the reviews it was mentioned that having an account with a social media group is a must. It is not an option. the

person doing the review made it clear that before you buy said product that they must make sure they are in good standing

with this social media platform.

 

This to me was alarming for many reasons.

 

So i asked the following questions.

 

What if user is no longer in good standing with this company, will they lose the ability to use a device they own?

 

Now the question above opened a whole new way of thinking.

 

See many Android devices demands an account in order to access some functionalities and updates. As well as being able

to install applications. Now YES it is possible to get around this but it is for the most part "inconvenient" But this as well is 

factually changing as "some" manufacturers are moving away, however even they may ask for some kind of an account

registration.

 

Now to state clearly this isn't a privacy concern as much as it is a ownership concern. Now it can be easily said yes you

can probably find ways to get around this but a lesson we learned from the PS3 days. Companies doesn't really like it 

when people mess with the hardware they own.

 

So the question now is. IS what you own yours? How does customer protection factor into this situation? Will new laws need

to be created?

 

I believe that YES new laws may well be needed to govern this situation.

 

The fact is that these items are SOLD to an individual. This means this individual owns the hardware. BUT here is the

question. Does the owner of the hardware, own the right to use the hardware?

 

Now for the hypothetical "what if"

 

What if computer manufactures now require registration of a device BEFORE it can function? What happens to the person 

that need this device to do their job IF this hardware manufactures feels they are NOT in good standing?

 

See right now it is a VR headset. But what happens when it spill into your every day life and companies have the RIGHT TO

STOP YOU FROM EARNING MONEY or MAKING A LIVING because they believe they have the right to do so.

 

 

Thus countries and law makers must get together and really iron this thing out. Make sure that people are protected from

what has the potential to be a very very bad thing.

 

If a device must have a mandatory subscription then it surly must to be regulated to some extent. Because if companies deny

a person access based on whatever criteria they have. Then it is a question of access control and what that means for the

end users.

 

Because it can be argued that you should have the right to use what you own.

 

 

What are your thoughts? Should consumers ask law makers to investigate and create laws that these companies must follow?

 

Is customer protection needed?

 

 

Again thank you for reading

be safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AvMaverick]

1. We ALL know you are talking about the Oculus Quest 2.

2. @LinusTech has made the same argument himself, saying the same for the Tesla performance upgrades, heating seats vi updates and many more. We buy the hardware, so we should get full access to it.

3. However, Facebook might be subsidizing the price using your data. 

[Mark Kaine]

4. Which is questionable at best. 

5. And should be definitely be looked at by lawmakers. 

[SansVarnic]

13 hours ago, oldSock said:

If you feel the above may trigger you in any way. PLEASE click away now. 

I feel this is a very unnecessary line to include in your topic, it right away makes me think this going to be a controversial topic thusly placing a bias in my mind [or any other reading it] prior to allowing the reader to make such an appointment or opinion for themselves.

 

Please do not do it.

This is not me as a mod saying it, it is as another member.

[Sarra]

I, personally, refuse to have a real facebook account; I have one for playing a single game, only, and none of my real info is tied to that account.

 

Just now, SansVarnic said:

I feel this is a very unnecessary line to include in your topic, it right away makes me think this going to be a controversial topic thusly placing a bias in my mind [or any other reading it] prior to allowing the reader to make such an appointment or opinion for themselves.

 

Please do not do it.

This is not me as a mod saying it, it is as another member.

Agreed, and well said. Thank you.

[oldSock]

2 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I feel this is a very unnecessary line to include in your topic, it right away makes me think this going to be a controversial topic thusly placing a bias in my mind [or any other reading it] prior to allowing the reader to make such an appointment or opinion for themselves.

 

Please do not do it.

This is not me as a mod saying it, it is as another member.

I also hate doing it But due to some individuals trashing many of my posts i had to do something to keep them from doing so. I hate it i really do but until these individuals can be be handled in any other way i have no choice. But i do hope you see that i am really trying to have  a positive debate about situations that will touch our every day lives moving forward. 

 

(edit)

Tell you what I will stop doing it and lets hope for the best. i honestly just want to create awareness and allow people to truly think about what is happening around them and how it may effect them.

[SansVarnic]

6 minutes ago, oldSock said:

But due to some individuals trashing many of my posts i had to do something to keep them from doing so.

This is why we have moderators... report and let them do the job of moderating.

 

To prevent topic derailment, you may pm me if you wish to discuss further.

[oldSock]

1 hour ago, Sarra said:

I, personally, refuse to have a real facebook account; I have one for playing a single game, only, and none of my real info is tied to that account.

 

Agreed, and well said. Thank you.

I did the same thing. i made an account to keep an eye on local happenings and the market place as i do use a lot of second hand parts. So ti find the service to be valuable. But i do feel that they are overstepping a boundary here. A company should not have the right to stop a person from using hardware that the user paid for. It is at this point i truly thing law makers must be ask to investigate this because no company social media platform should have the right to stop a individual from using what is essential their property. 

 

I think customer protection should be considered moving forward or this can get really ugly for users in general.

[oldSock]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

This is why we have moderators... report and let them do the job of moderating.

I totally 100% agree.

 

i would love to be a team player as i understand the hard work that goes into these platforms. I will construct my future posts very carefully and make sure to be factual where i can but sometimes conjecture or rather a hypothesis needs to be introduced to give a clear picture. But even then i can and will do more on my side to make sure it is to the point.

[LogicalDrm]

3 hours ago, oldSock said:

I also hate doing it But due to some individuals trashing many of my posts i had to do something to keep them from doing so. I hate it i really do but until these individuals can be be handled in any other way i have no choice. But i do hope you see that i am really trying to have  a positive debate about situations that will touch our every day lives moving forward.

If you have issue with someone acting against our rules, report them and ignore their replies. But if you can't take criticism about your opinions or thoughts, you might want to re-think posting anything on the internet. We moderate only the language used, not opinions presented.

[AvMaverick]

19 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

4. Which is questionable at best. 

5. And should be definitely be looked at by lawmakers. 

Yes. Even a monopoly. The only competitve product here.

 

Lawmakers, however, are dumb enough that they won't get it.

[Vishera]

23 hours ago, oldSock said:

So the question now is. IS what you own yours?

If you are cautious and know what you are doing you won't have this problem (like me).

I don't have any shady apps that require registration - and i have all the applications i need.

I control updates on my devices with a firewall,and if i want to update then i simply allow the update service internet access.

I have very strict firewall rules so i control all the data that goes in and out my devices.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

14 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I feel this is a very unnecessary line to include in your topic, it right away makes me think this going to be a controversial topic thusly placing a bias in my mind [or any other reading it] prior to allowing the reader to make such an appointment or opinion for themselves.

 

Please do not do it.

This is not me as a mod saying it, it is as another member.

I feel like OP has a template or something that includes those lines. I've seen multiple topics by OP with the same introduction at top.

[SansVarnic]

8 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

<snip> I've seen multiple topics by OP with the same introduction at top.

Hence my reply.  

[WindirBear]

I mean in a free market...

[dilpickle]

On 11/20/2020 at 9:04 AM, oldSock said:

So the question now is. IS what you own yours?

Yes absolutely. When you buy a piece of hardware you own it 100% and you can do anything you want with it. You can modify it, hack the firmware, give it away, sell it, smash it with a hammer, frame it on your wall.

 

Now if you want to use that piece of hardware to access software or a service... well then you've gotta live by the rules of that service. If you don't like those rules then don't use it.

[oldSock]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:35 AM, dilpickle said:

Yes absolutely. When you buy a piece of hardware you own it 100% and you can do anything you want with it. You can modify it, hack the firmware, give it away, sell it, smash it with a hammer, frame it on your wall.

 

Now if you want to use that piece of hardware to access software or a service... well then you've gotta live by the rules of that service. If you don't like those rules then don't use it.

The thing is we are not talking about rules here. Rules are easy to follow if they are within reason.

 

However when a company bans someone's access because of what is essentially personal opinion. That becomes a problem because later hardware may be used in the work place but because a personal opinion was not "acceptable for whatever reason" now the work cannot be preformed. This is why lawmakers must make 100% sure that people are not manipulated on this level and that everyone is protected.

 

I stand to be corrected, but most platform bans normally remains permanently and many people have lost their livelihood because of this. So it would be better IF laws exist that ALL companies MUST follow. For example an official process with proper regulations may help protect the end user against heavy handed bans and or manipulation. I would feel much better knowing that we have rights regarding this because some terms of services factually nearly all of them has the same line in it. 

 

"services & terms are subject to change without notice" EXAMPLE

 

That means they can add and indeed take away from it as they see fit, regardless of how it will effect the end user. That leaves a massive door open for situations to become a BIG problem.    

[dilpickle]

6 hours ago, oldSock said:

 

 

However when a company bans someone's access because of what is essentially personal opinion.

Who has done that?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:08 PM, Abyssal Radon said:

Facebook monetizing/mining data from customers is nothing new, same goes with Google, Apple, Microsoft, and other large corporations.

Facebook just got sued by my state, they were using photos of users for their data mining. Neadless to say, the state of illinois won it.

[oldSock]

3 hours ago, dilpickle said:

Who has done that?

There was this content creator that used to actually work at a company called Facebook. One day on his YouTube channel he questioned something simple. Well in a short time later he was dismissed and his Facebook account revoked. 

 

Now in his YouTube, he stated that not only did he lose his friends, contact list and the like on Facebook he also lost accounts on other networks that used Facebook as a from of authentication. Now he explained to Facebook that he needed access to these accounts in order to change the logins but they did not listen to him at all.

 

It was at this point i realized how heavy handed companies handle individuals. You can search for this on YouTube yourself it will not be hard to find.

 

Now there are countless other examples like this one. Just do a search it is all there. Many people are factually effected financially. Not to mention their livelihoods was completely disrupted.

 

This is dangerous and law makers should ask the following questions.

Are companies manipulating individuals to conform?

Are companies being heavy handed? Example permanent bans. 

What effects does this have on the individual? Example financially, physically and mentally?

 

What protection does the public need?

 

See this is actually a really  serious situation. It is not just about a single company and device. It really is about our personal freedoms.

 

That is the scary part.  

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:04 PM, oldSock said:

The fact is that these items are SOLD to an individual. This means this individual owns the hardware. BUT here is the

question. Does the owner of the hardware, own the right to use the hardware?

This is a very real problem and goes beyond hardware. It's plaguing everything, because services = constant flow of payments (by you or the advertisers), while goods = one-time payment and who knows tomorrow.

On 11/21/2020 at 7:35 PM, dilpickle said:

Now if you want to use that piece of hardware to access software or a service...

No one wants to access any service in many cases, it's just the artificial act of making "switching your device on" a "software service".

 

On 11/20/2020 at 12:04 PM, oldSock said:

Now for the hypothetical "what if"

 

What if computer manufactures now require registration of a device BEFORE it can function? What happens to the person 

that need this device to do their job IF this hardware manufactures feels they are NOT in good standing?

 

See right now it is a VR headset. But what happens when it spill into your every day life and companies have the RIGHT TO

STOP YOU FROM EARNING MONEY or MAKING A LIVING because they believe they have the right to do so.

There is no hypothesis here: it's already here. It's not "just a VR headset right now", the VR headset is just the latest link in a long chain. Did you plan to play games on that VR headset? Did you get those games on Steam, by any chance? It turns our playing those games is also "a service we can terminate at any moment for any reason", as a user in this very forum has experienced.

How do you like your Sonos speakers? The list goes on and on.

Many devices have their controls needlessly moved to an "app" that requires an account to work. But hey, they are "providing the service" of not rendering your device a fancy paperweight, right? Oh, and by the way, we know you didn't own it for long, but we really no longer feel like "supporting" your device, so guess what, it will no longer work with the app, and therefore, at all. Feel free to buy the new version, that one is totally supported!

 

Now, you highlight something on top of that, which I think it's worth noting: because in this case it's Facebook, as opposed to a Sonos or Roomba account, you may actually use the account to post in Facebook itself, other than just having it to use the device. So there's the possibility of getting banned from Facebook due to in-Facebook behavior, and the question of what would happen with your devices: will you continue to use them under a non-public account or would they be lost? This is also not entirely new, as you could get in trouble in Steam many "social" features. The second issue with Facebook in particular is that even behavior outside Facebook could have consequences for your Facebook account if you get "cancelled" for behavior elsewhere. It's more of a remote scenario, though. And I'm not sure that is different from the risk that Google may one day destroy your account, which you may use for android, Gmail, Calendar... because of, let say, something you did in Youtube. However, I'm not sure if you would lose access to something other than google services themselves, i.e., you can use all your hardware still. Except maybe their Big Brother devices, but come on, you shouldn't use them anyway  

 

I still think the "losing their jobs" scenario is a bit far-fetched. Yes, if I work with my phone, being denied phone services by telephony providers harms my ability to work, and so would losing access to Facebook if your job is requires Facebook presence, but that's not really an issue of "hardware as a service".

But I do think it's a very urgent matter from a consumer rights perspective, especially when companies continue to advertise their products as goods you buy, not services you rent. And with the tiny detail of your device working only until their servers decide so, and not as long as they are physically sound, and without the relevant functions truly requiring said servers, being left to some footnote somewhere rather than prominently displayed.

It's basically fraud.

 

 

 

[dilpickle]

3 hours ago, oldSock said:

There was this content creator that used to actually work at a company called Facebook. One day on his YouTube channel he questioned something simple. Well in a short time later he was dismissed and his Facebook account revoked.

If he was an employee that is a very different situation from a normal user. We don't know what he said or did or what happened behind the scenes. We also don't know what type of contract he worked under and what he is allowed to say.

 

I've never heard of someone getting banned from these sites for expressing an opinion. They literally won't lift a finger to ban racists for spewing the most vile things on their sites. Nor do they care much about people posting blatantly false information or fake news,

 

You would have to try really hard to get banned from facebook or youtube because of an opinion.

 

Now I know there are plenty of problems with copyright abuse and monetization rules but that is a different issue.

[oldSock]

On 11/24/2020 at 2:31 AM, dilpickle said:

If he was an employee that is a very different situation from a normal user. We don't know what he said or did or what happened behind the scenes. We also don't know what type of contract he worked under and what he is allowed to say.

 

I've never heard of someone getting banned from these sites for expressing an opinion. They literally won't lift a finger to ban racists for spewing the most vile things on their sites. Nor do they care much about people posting blatantly false information or fake news,

 

You would have to try really hard to get banned from facebook or youtube because of an opinion.

 

Now I know there are plenty of problems with copyright abuse and monetization rules but that is a different issue.

If i am honest,

 

i don't know why people are willing to accept forced account subscriptions for products they already paid for. I cannot tell you how any company does their banning or how they implement their rules. Like everyone else i can only do so much research find only so many answers and then decide if it is something worth looking into and or even write about.

 

But yes, some people will not care that this is a thing or not.

 

But where i live at least, Employers want to see your social media accounts. For the past few years every single employer wanted to see these accounts. Then i normally have to explain i don't actually have these accounts because it gets in the way. Normally i get "the look" and what not and yes i am 100% sure it may well be the reason why some of them didn't phone me back. That said many did. It is just normal at this point.  

 

See right now technology needs official regulation because it really does effect us. The reality is that they force rules upon us that are subject to change at any moment. How can any person trust/build on that. Secondly in some cases the user's account/behavior/data  is the actual product being sold to other companies that sees value in it. Thirdly it can and will effect an individual's ability to get work. This is a factual reality without the tech. 

 

So my take is, law-makers need to wake up and seriously do some legwork. This thing will get ugly eventually. Rather have the laws and regulations before hand.

 

 

[dilpickle]

5 hours ago, oldSock said:

But where i live at least, Employers want to see your social media accounts.

How is that the fault of social media companies? That's a problem between your employer and you.

 

You said facebook was banning people because of their opinions. Now you are talking about employers who spy on your social media. I don't even know what point you are trying to make. If your employer was listening to your phone calls do you blame the phone company or the employer?

[oldSock]

1 hour ago, dilpickle said:

How is that the fault of social media companies? That's a problem between your employer and you.

 

You said facebook was banning people because of their opinions. Now you are talking about employers who spy on your social media. I don't even know what point you are trying to make. If your employer was listening to your phone calls do you blame the phone company or the employer?

In my opinion it shows that It how a social media service can be a problem. It is at no fault to them BUT the situation exist regardless.

 

However i did some more research and found plenty of individuals that didn't do much to get banned from social media. So really i think if you are interested in the topic you can really go take a look. just type into google something like "i have been banned from whatever you want to look at" and you will find plenty of people that reported different situations and got banned many of them permanent. 

 

Based on that i would honestly say that at this point in time it is really hard to imagine that it will "never happen" and or "it will never effect my employment" or "it will never effect the devices i own/work with" i think in time it will do all of the previously mentioned and more.