Got RTX 3070! But I think my CPU is holding me back

[0meg4]

Well, finally got my hands on a RTX 3070. And I'm kinda dissappointed.

Don't get me wrong, it's a beast. But, I had my expectations a little wrong.

 

Relevant specs: 2700x B550 32gb 3600mhz 500GB Evo plus 27" 1080p 144hz 27" 1080p 75hz

Play mainly shooters (COD mostly) Before I upgraded, I had a 1660s. Great little thing. Got ~100fps on mid/high. Some 60fps 1%.

 

I decided to get a 3070, for getting better fps, and hit those 144, which I got my monitor for. Saw a lot of YT videos of the card hitting 150-160 fps easily. After dealing with the out of stock problem, finally got lucky and got the 3070. "I'm done", I thought. Great, now I can do what I want and saw on the reviews.

 

Well, yeah, I got higher FPS, 20+ at least. But still, I'm hovering on the ~120fps. With a lot of 80-90fps drops. 3070 sits on 60% usage. So, clearly is the CPU, not delivering more frames. I even lowered the resolution to 1024x768 to see, and yeah, got a little more frames.

 

So, at this moment, I'm kinda regretting the 3070. Again, is a great card, but I think is overkill for 1080@144, which I can now see is more CPU dependent. I read a lot that "these card is meant for 1440p". Does it mean if I switch to 1440p, will I get more frames even with the same CPU?

 

So, I've been thinking 24/7 on the options I have:

1. Upgrade to 5600x (expensive)
2. Upgrade to 1440p (expensive)
3. Upgrade to 3700x (same as 1)
4. "Upgrade" to 3600 (not that expensive)
5. Return the 3070, and get a used 2070s/2080 + 5600x (almost equal)

 

About option 2, is it true, tho, that upgrading to 1440p will get me more fps all of the sudden?

 

I don't care that much about multicore future proofing the CPU, since 2022 is going to be the AM5/DDR5 launch (I think) and don't think games are going to be that optimized for 8 cores in a year or two.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Coolmaster]

Getting high FPS is usually dependent on the CPU, going to a higher resolution is usually dependent on the GPU. You won't get more frames going to 1440p but you will use more of your GPU's power and have a nicer experience playing at a higher resolution. To get higher FPS you'd need a faster CPU, I'd recommend a 5600X if you want to consistently play at 144FPS.

[Devryd]

depending on your cooling, you could first try to overclock the CPU. I dont know, how much head room the 2700x has, but its worth a shot

[0meg4]

Just now, Devryd said:

depending on your cooling, you could first try to overclock the CPU. I dont know, how much head room the 2700x has, but its worth a shot

I got an AIO that keeps the CPU at 60º on full load. It hovers at 4.1 an all cores, I guess I'm squeezing almost the whole potential of this one.

[boggy77]

7 minutes ago, 0meg4 said:

Does it mean if I switch to 1440p, will I get more frames even with the same CPU?

no, the cpu can only push 120fps in that particular game, regardless of the resolution.

try disabling SMT, and overclock the cpu, that might increase performance by about 10%.

if still not happy, and if a 5600x is too expensive, either wait for the 5600 or 5400 or whatever, or get a 3600 or a 3300x.

also, are you sure you ram is running at 3600? i'm a bit surprised it works with a 2700x. if it doesn't, might be stuck at 2133.

i;d say check your ram speed first.

[GER_T4IGA]

A 3070 is absolutely freoking overkill for 1080p for anything but 240Hz imo.

 

From the tosting i have seen, even a 3300x will beat your 2700X in most games so if you see unsatisfactorily low framerates your CPU is very very likely at fault.

Check usage and if any individual cares ace pegged at 100% (not total usage!)

[0meg4]

1 minute ago, boggy77 said:

no, the cpu can only push 120fps in that particular game, regardless of the resolution.

try disabling SMT, and overclock the cpu, that might increase performance by about 10%.

if still not happy, and if a 5600x is too expensive, either wait for the 5600 or 5400 or whatever, or get a 3600 or a 3300x.

also, are you sure you ram is running at 3600? i'm a bit surprised it works with a 2700x. if it doesn't, might be stuck at 2133.

i;d say check your ram speed first.

 

Yeah, memory is at 3600.

I though that it was best for the "X" versions to leave it OC itself through PBO. Would it be better to just OC it myself? since i've got a pretty good AIO.

Just now, GER_T4IGA said:

A 3070 is absolutely freoking overkill for 1080p for anything but 240Hz imo.

 

From the tosting i have seen, even a 3300x will beat your 2700X in most games so if you see unsatisfactorily low framerates your CPU is very very likely at fault.

Check usage and if any individual cares ace pegged at 100% (not total usage!)

Yes, I started playing with HWInfo open on my second monitor to check on specific core usage while gaming. Some cores top at 95% for a second.. but hover around 70-80%.

Is that enough to be the actual bottleneck?

[Devryd]

These are some bad RAM timings... Ryzen scales heavily with good RAM, so you can try to get them a little better.

[Fasauceome]

19 minutes ago, 0meg4 said:

2700x B550

a second gen Ryzen CPU on a B550 motherboard? AMD doesn't offer official support for that, what model motherboard are you using?

 

4 minutes ago, 0meg4 said:

 

Yeah, memory is at 3600.

3600 CL24 is pretty terribly slow, in terms of latency.

[0meg4]

3 minutes ago, Devryd said:

These are some bad RAM timings... Ryzen scales heavily with good RAM, so you can try to get them a little better.

I didn't see the timings until i posted that picture, lol.

Gotta get working on that right away.

3 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

a second gen Ryzen CPU on a B550 motherboard? AMD doesn't offer official support for that, what model motherboard are you using?

 

3600 CL24 is pretty terribly slow, in terms of latency.

Yeah, there are a lot of Zen2 CPU running on B550 boards.

This one is a Asus TUF B550m plus.
They also run on the MSI's (mortar, tomahawk..)

I'll try to improve the latencies.

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, 0meg4 said:

Yeah, there are a lot of Zen2 CPU running on B550 boards.

 

Zen 2 is Ryzen 3000, zen+ is Ryzen 2000

 

though now I wonder what APUs work on what boards. pcpartpicker will need to update its configs.

 

[maizenblue]

As others said, its not that youd get higher fps at 1440p, its that youll get roughly the same fps but at a much prettier rez. 
 

I def wouldn't return the gpu. If i was u id go higher rez and maybe upgrade to a 5600x when prices drop. Could also be ram or drivers holding u back some, i mean cl24? Yikes. 

[0meg4]

18 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Zen 2 is Ryzen 3000, zen+ is Ryzen 2000

 

though now I wonder what APUs work on what boards. pcpartpicker will need to update its configs.

 

Yeah, sorry. Meant zen+. 

A lot of reddit posts suggest that one must keep the original bios until they are officially supported on vendors websites and such. 

But yeah, they work. 

17 minutes ago, maizenblue said:

As others said, its not that youd get higher fps at 1440p, its that youll get roughly the same fps but at a much prettier rez. 
 

I def wouldn't return the gpu. If i was u id go higher rez and maybe upgrade to a 5600x when prices drop. Could also be ram or drivers holding u back some, i mean cl24? Yikes. 

Yeah, I didn't notice that when setting the bios timings. 

Gotta work on those.

 

About returning the 3070.

What would you get instead? 

[boggy77]

2 hours ago, 0meg4 said:

 

Yeah, memory is at 3600.

I though that it was best for the "X" versions to leave it OC itself through PBO. Would it be better to just OC it myself? since i've got a pretty good AIO.

Yes, I started playing with HWInfo open on my second monitor to check on specific core usage while gaming. Some cores top at 95% for a second.. but hover around 70-80%.

Is that enough to be the actual bottleneck?

That sounds like the bottleneck, yes, especially if the gpu isn't close to the 90% mark.

See if there is a different xmp profile, 3600c24 doesn't sound right. Otherwise try the other kit.

[wall03]

3 hours ago, 0meg4 said:

Return the 3070, and get a used 2070s/2080 + 5600x (almost equal)

this

[Pndude1000]

You should upgrade your cpu to a ryzen 7 5th gen because a 2700+ 3070 is a bottlneck. 

[wall03]

3 minutes ago, Pndude1000 said:

You should upgrade your cpu to a ryzen 7 4th gen because a 2700+ 3070 is a bottlneck. 

fixed that

 

 

also

3 hours ago, 0meg4 said:

Upgrade to 5600x (too expensive)

 

[0meg4]

7 minutes ago, Pndude1000 said:

You should upgrade your cpu to a ryzen 7 5th gen because a 2700+ 3070 is a bottlneck. 

 

52 minutes ago, wall03 said:

this

Yeah, I guess i'm going to pull the trigger on the 5600x.

 

And, if, in a year or two, i manage to get comfortable with 1440p, I'll have the horsepower to make it happen.
If not, I'll be more than covered for my 1080p needs (well, let's see what cyberpunk is planning to do to us, lol)

[Pndude1000]

15 minutes ago, 0meg4 said:

 

Yeah, I guess i'm going to pull the trigger on the 5600x.

 

And, if, in a year or two, i manage to get comfortable with 1440p, I'll have the horsepower to make it happen.
If not, I'll be more than covered for my 1080p needs (well, let's see what cyberpunk is planning to do to us, lol)

 

 

Yeah cyberpunk will take a lot of GPU power. The minum specs to run the game is a gtx 1060. 

[-rascal-]

@0meg4

Did you just change the DRAM frequency in BIOS, and left everything else on [Auto] ?

NO way DDR4-3600 will have CL24 timings with XMP enabled.

Cl16 or CL18 is more in expected values, and CL14 if you bought highly binned Samsung B-Die DRAM sticks. 

DRAM frequency and latency significantly impacts Ryzen performance.

 

Not having PROPER CPU support on the motherboard can *ALSO* impact performance.

As already mentioned, TUF Gaming B550M-Plus does not currently have support for Ryzen 2000-series.

I don't know if it EVER will...all the B550 boards (ASUS / Gigabyte / MSi / etc) so far are Ryzen 5000 series / 3000 series CPUs only in the product description.

And also when you check the CPU support list.

AMD never mentioned B550 officially supporting Ryzen 2000-series and older -- only mentioned Ryzen 3000-series and 5000-series.

[0meg4]

4 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

@0meg4

Did you just change the DRAM frequency in BIOS, and left everything else on [Auto] ?

NO way DDR4-3600 will have CL24 timings with XMP enabled.

Cl16 or CL18 is more in expected values, and CL14 if you bought highly binned Samsung B-Die DRAM sticks. 

DRAM frequency and latency significantly impacts Ryzen performance.

 

Not having PROPER CPU support on the motherboard can *ALSO* impact performance.

As already mentioned, TUF Gaming B550M-Plus does not currently have support for Ryzen 2000-series.

I don't know if it EVER will...all the B550 boards (ASUS / Gigabyte / MSi / etc) so far are Ryzen 5000 series / 3000 series CPUs only in the product description.

And also when you check the CPU support list.

AMD never mentioned B550 officially supporting Ryzen 2000-series and older -- only mentioned Ryzen 3000-series and 5000-series.

Yeah, that's exactly what I did.

 But it's ok now, I think

 

 

I'm testing right now with these timings, and the performance did improve, by maybe 5-7 average fps.

 

Yeah, I know it's not supported, but I've seen so many videos and posts on these with no issues whatsoever, or at least not like mine.

[Devryd]

This looks a lot better than the earlier timings. Its a pitty, that its only a few fps more

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, -rascal- said:

@0meg4

Did you just change the DRAM frequency in BIOS, and left everything else on [Auto] ?

NO way DDR4-3600 will have CL24 timings with XMP enabled.

Cl16 or CL18 is more in expected values, and CL14 if you bought highly binned Samsung B-Die DRAM sticks. 

DRAM frequency and latency significantly impacts Ryzen performance.

 

Define significant. It's going to end up being less than 20 frames, more likely 10 on a game that run at 120fps. To me that is not significant. 

[-rascal-]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Define significant. It's going to end up being less than 20 frames, more likely 10 on a game that run at 120fps. To me that is not significant. 

 

It will depend on the game and test condition(s), but the my definition of significant would be 10% ~ 15%. 

[Blue4130]

1 hour ago, -rascal- said:

 

It will depend on the game and test condition(s), but the my definition of significant would be 10% ~ 15%. 

Fair enough, I would call 50% significant. 10% would not be significant for me. A bump yes, but not significant or noticeable at that fps level. It's a different story though if it's at the 30 fps level.