Why doesn't Ukraine want to be part of Russia?

[meritmaster]

We all may face the fact the Soviet Union never met their demise with Reagan during his presidency; but only forced it to re-brand it'self, and change forms. In this new millennium we might face more problems than our predecessors, and because of this; knowledge, truth, and merit should be established individually, and our freedoms protected by ourselves.

 

Today i present evidence on why the situation in Ukraine is deadly serious, how it turned out in history, and who the enemy is.

 

In order to understand the ongoing situation we must take a look back into history, and see how Ukraine has been treated, and tooken by the Russians. 

 

Ukraine has been victim to Russia little over a 100 year, and perhaps more{Don't have the research to claim it}, but lets take it back to 1917; with the "October Revolution". 

 

During the Revolutionary period for communism in Russia, Communism spreaded to nearby countries such as Hungry, Ukraine, and Poland.

 

Unfortunately Ukraine was one of the first to fall to communism due to a different kind of soviet warfare that i sadly don't know the name for. It was not a clear peaceful turn over, and the revolution consisted of different sides, but the Bolshevik Influence, money, and gun running; was the mean the communism needed to get there foot in the door in Ukraine.

 

1928 USSR starts "collective" farming, and the state controlled food supply, agriculture, and lives are put into play. All in this process Families were forced to give up all of their property, which meant their money, farms, food, supplies, house, livestock, and all the hard work the family had put into the farm, and turned into some kind of sick North Korean work camp. Note: All this is for some kind of bogus Robin Hood story for a nation, one that used protecting the poor, into making the poor greedy, and take other property out of jealously of their own failuars

 

Between these years many Ukrainians resisted this policy, but were killed, arrested, and thrown into political gulags; where they would eventually die out. The farmers were resisting collectivism,  due to them figuring out only they can take care of them selves.

 

1930: 1.5 million die in resisting these polices. Ukrainians were being taken in at night by the communist, and taken to remote camps. Does this sound familiar to modern day North Korea?

 

In 1932 Stalin begins one of the worst known genocide known to man; and well deserving a spot with Hitler in Hell. Stalin was now responsible for wide spread starvation, and it must be kept quiet to the public. Stalin starts executing man, woman, or child that takes from the collective out of their own hungry greed! Their are plenty of video in this period of child getting killed for a piece of bread, or whatever they were eating for rations under soviet rule. During these years farmers in Ukraine have been persistent in there opinons about the policy; which Stalin saw as a threat to his control over every aspect of the collectives life. Stalin states of Ukraine that "the national question is in essence a rural question" and he and his commanders determine to "teach a lesson through famine" and ultimately, to deal a "crushing blow" to the backbone of Ukraine, its rural population. 

 

All this in the name of the 99% and their greed. 99% isn't a real statistic, so don't listen to occupys, and anons.

 

By the end of the "Holodomor" 4 million died from starvation alone, and some just dying on street. {also accounts of this in North Korea   REF: UN report on North Korea (personal testimonies)]

 

This brings me to why is Ukraine a must for the soviet rule? Why must they have that, and ruin those peoples lives; didn't they have enough land? 

The answer is actually really deep. This also relates to Napoleons, and Hitlers conquest of the world, and has to do with a geographical pivot point. This pivot point has been the cause of  millions of deaths, empires rising, empires falling, and some of the biggest wars man has known. 

 

 

 

 Let me start with a quote 

 

 

"Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island; who rules the World-Island controls the world." (Mackinder, Democratic Ideals and Reality, p. 106)   There is point in the world that is necessary to have; if one man wants to rule the world. This point is called "The Geographical Pivot point". There has been many books written on it, but sadly is not widely known around the world. This 'Pivot Point' is known to have enough space, enough natural defenses, and resources to supply a Army, and a dictator to abuse the world. This is why Napoleon, and Hitler wanted it, and now this is why the Soviet Union wanted it, o sorry i mean Putin. It is a step into a global war over domination of everything. This is the root that needs to be exposed. Hitler jammed his way to that point in Russia, because he needed it. Napoleon forced his men through Russia because he needed it, and now Putin forces his gun in the face of Ukrainians for the same reason.   Isn't this like Poland, or checksolvika  Europe? Europe why must you make the mistake of the past and appease? I thought the UK would be mad, but no outrage is shown.   We could be seeing the start of another world war, and if we push it to the side like before, then alot of people will die.     Pictures related:               ALSO NOTE: I notice people who have been warning about stuff seem to be marginalized, and made fun by the terrible satirist Jon Stewart. So before anyone lashes out ignorant statements to watch this, and stop being so damn arrogant. 

[Assassin]

tl;dr?

[Evostatic343]

[Ryan Leech]

This is deep stuff...

[epeglab_1_]

The question is.... Will this lead to the next world war?

[MegaDave91]

[MatheusSanzo]

TLDR?

Apparently you can get warnings for posting this.

[meritmaster]

Sorry i messed up and pasted a copy of the story, in the story, so some parts might be repeated. Fixing now.  

[Tea1337]

They probably want independence from other countries.

[meritmaster]

Apparently you can get warnings for posting this.

Warn me for warning the public. If a community wants to shut someone up for warning about war, and mass murder then they don't deserve my time, unfortunately i bet most sane minded people should agree. 

[MatheusSanzo]

Warn me for warning the public. If a community wants to shut someone up for warning about war, and mass murder then they don't deserve my time, unfortunately i bet most sane minded people should agree. 

No, i was talking about posting TLDR.

[Fred Castellum]

How about instead of posting nothing but jokes we discuss the topic?....

[Fred Castellum]

Warn me for warning the public. If a community wants to shut someone up for warning about war, and mass murder then they don't deserve my time, unfortunately i bet most sane minded people should agree. 

The guy wasn't talking about you, he was pointing out the person who posted nothing but TLDR(to long didn't read) can get reported for pointless posting like that.

[meritmaster]

The guy wasn't talking about you, he was pointing out the person who posted nothing but TLDR(to long didn't read) can get reported for pointless posting like that.

O okay

[Evostatic343]

[meritmaster]

Some info can be found here http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html

[ToxicFire]

I draw one point though, unlike communist era soviet union, we are now dealing with capitalist era Russian federation, and how do we draw that fundemental distinction, europe imports alot of energy from russia its whats made russia wealthy again in recent years this is why economic sanctions has brought up the spectre of russia making remarks about suspending the START treaty because they would and can have a serious economic impact on the russian economy, heck look how russian markets reacted to the military situation in crimea.

 

Are we seeing the return to the soviet union of old?

 

no

 

Are we seeing Russia finding itself slightly marginalised in world politics

 

probably

[NInety]

TLDR?

What is TLDR?

[meritmaster]

I draw one point though, unlike communist era soviet union, we are now dealing with capitalist era Russian federation, and how do we draw that fundemental distinction, europe imports alot of energy from russia its whats made russia wealthy again in recent years this is why economic sanctions has brought up the spectre of russia making remarks about suspending the START treaty because they would and can have a serious economic impact on the russian economy, heck look how russian markets reacted to the military situation in crimea.

 

Are we seeing the return to the soviet union of old?

 

no

 

Are we seeing Russia finding itself slightly marginalised in world politics

 

probably

Wrong. They're dealing with Socialism, and Socialism is the paved road to Communism. Capitalism means free market; in which the soviets never had, neither does Putin. It's the same game, but a different board. Aspects of a free market are Individual Freedoms, property, and alot of prosperity; which neither the USSR, or Putin allows, so how could you blame it on capitalism? Putin is a EX-KGB, and believes in the Soviet Unions ideology, so in remaking of the USSR: why would he instate capitalism? which is the exact opposite of their system, and his objective. The real answer is the Russian Federation is a Socialist Country, and socialism is the official road to the utopia in Marxist belief

 

Since socialism has control of the markets, then it is by definition not a free market, so you are wrong. 

 

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/06/john-bolton/did-vladimir-putin-call-breakup-ussr-greatest-geop/

 

"

"The breakup of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century."-Putin

[ToxicFire]

Wrong. They're dealing with Socialism, and Socialism is the paved road to Communism. Capitalism means free market; in which the soviets never had, neither does Putin. It's the same game, but a different board. Aspects of a free market are Individual Freedoms, property, and alot of prosperity; which neither the USSR, or Putin allows, so how could you blame it on capitalism? Putin is a EX-KGB, and believes in the Soviet Unions ideology, so in remaking of the USSR: why would he instate capitalism? which is the exact opposite of their system, and his objective. The real answer is the Russian Federation is a Socialist Country, and socialism is the official road to the utopia in Marxist belief

 

Since socialism has control of the markets, then it is by definition not a free market, so you are wrong. 

 

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/06/john-bolton/did-vladimir-putin-call-breakup-ussr-greatest-geop/

 

"

"The breakup of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century."-Putin

You believe all forms of socialism are wrong? Also the driving force behind Russia's economy is not socialism as im sure there are probably quiet a few russian's on this forum will tell you.

 

Edit.

 

Decided not to bother.

[meritmaster]

You believe all forms of socialism are wrong? Also the driving force behind Russia's economy is not socialism as im sure there are probably quiet a few russian's on this forum will tell you.

They all stem from a bad well, and anything else is them trying to get their foot in the door. How is the EU doing? Greece? Socialism worked there yet? Wonder why America harbors the most successful people? It's the free market; which is a individual based system, meaning that you are you're own governor, and you rule your own life, at you individual discretion. This enables people to create things willing; without any red tape. Socialism is a collective based system based on entitlements, while capitalism is about responsibility.  Which one truly rings out to be better?  Maybe you need to sit down, and realize the last 100 years have been a mistake. power power power

[meritmaster]

Decided not to bother.

 

Then i am sorry to say, that civilization made you a slave. You should defend your position if you believe in it, if you don't then you will see how words become meaningless. 

[Guest]

Apparently you can get warnings for posting this.

Rightly so imo.

[meritmaster]

Rightly so imo.

For posting TLDR?

[ToxicFire]

Then i am sorry to say, that civilization made you a slave. You should defend your position if you believe in it, if you don't then you will see how words become meaningless. 

 

I could explain my point but Im not wanting to start an argument that Im fairly sure will resort to people tossing insults back and forth until threads locked but I will try and explain my points rationally without resorting to that.

 

 

They all stem from a bad well, and anything else is them trying to get their foot in the door. How is the EU doing? Greece? Socialism worked there yet? Wonder why America harbors the most successful people? It's the free market; which is a individual based system, meaning that you are you're own governor, and you rule your own life, at you individual discretion. This enables people to create things willing; without any red tape. Socialism is a collective based system based on entitlements, while capitalism is about responsibility.  Which one truly rings out to be better?  Maybe you need to sit down, and realize the last 100 years have been a mistake. power power power

 

 

Ok lets see, you highlight the example of the EU and greece, lets explain a little about its nothing related to socialism its to do with the great big experimental (muckup) of the euro (there’s political reasons why it was pushed so hard relating to the relationship between france and germany and the desire to build a common interest to prevent conflict occurring between them ever again but thats an aside) the Euro is a economic union without a political union which for a start is a cart before the horse scenario, having a multitude of different economies operating with a currency with a single value. Greece's problem stems from the countries debt, in a pre euro situation greece would have just devalued its own currency to help deal with the issue (it would have been a tough recession but probably not as anywhere near as bad as its been) but as greece is a member of the euro they couldn't do that as devaluing the currency requires everyone to devalue the currency, which countries with strong economies are unlikely to do, the problem also stems that when the euro was introduced the rules that were set as for member ship were broken for certain states, regarding things such as national debt levels. This combined with the a very strict conditions attached to bailouts has lead to the current situation that is limited to a number of euro zone countries, while other economies within the euro zone are strong some showing growth of upto 8% during the down turn.

 

Socialism like any economic model, including capitalism and communism can be twisted into something that may carry the name but in reality is far from the truth and is quite broken.

 

As for america, while what you define there is the american dream, I will dispute the fact that you are truely free to be your own governor as your always subject to circumstance, I'll also highlight the fact the most recent economic downturn was prompted by the zealous sale of sub prime mortgages, which fell over in america.