Dystopian technologies/uses for technology

[pythonmegapixel]

What's the most dystopian/worrying thing you can think of in tech, that could realistically happen?

 

I'll start with the worldwide deployment of image processing algorithms and face profiling technology, allowing constant tracking by governments and anyone who happens to break into their systems, over-enforcement of petty or dubious laws, etc. etc.

[Skipple]

8 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

image processing algorithms and face profiling technology, allowing constant tracking by governments and anyone who happens to break into their systems, over-enforcement of petty or dubious laws, etc.

This is already very possible and happening right now in China. I think it's important to separate "tech dystopia" and abusive authoritarian government here. I don't view them as mutually inclusive.

 

I'm not sure what a simply Tech Dystopia would look like. Capitalistic hellscape comprised of only massive multinational corporations that control all resources and thus the entire global economy? 

[3 Lions]

Those face detectors will be checking to see if everyone is wearing masks next. It's not in the realm of impossibility and would be something all governments around the world would get onto.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

What's the most dystopian/worrying thing you can think of in tech, that could realistically happen?

 

I'll start with the worldwide deployment of image processing algorithms and face profiling technology, allowing constant tracking by governments and anyone who happens to break into their systems, over-enforcement of petty or dubious laws, etc. etc.

Haha, it's already here.

 

Voice, Face and Touch recognition for biometrics also getting used for profiling.

 

Like the '1984' book's prediction was entirely on the basis of thoughtcrimes. You know what's a thought crime?

Let's say you were doing research for a novel, something that is entirely fiction, but you wanted to make it sound more convincing than "The main character, Mr. Grey, hacked off the head of his opponent, Mr. Mustard, with a butter knife, leading to coating every square inch of the table in blood."

 

Now, anyone who has any forensic knowledge will know what is explicitly wrong in that sentence. However if say Google were profiling people that look up how to kill certain targets, you know Google does this because you have to explicitly tell it not to keep your search. But what if you are in incognito mode? Surely those searches are logged somewhere else right?

 

Same example, different context:

Now, there is an actual TV series called "How to get away with Murder", so without the context, this search and the above search are the same. Thus "the algorithm" will attempt to figure out what you are really looking for (really the drop down didn't show up until I hit space), but the fact that it has these in the drop down means other people have looked this up. 

 

So a thought-crime is taking stuff like the above as though the one looking it up is actually going to commit a crime rather than innocently looking up information that is entirely fiction, or for use in fiction. This is one of the problems with trying do research on topics dealing with criminal activity, because a search history is something that can be obtained from the search engines. If someone seems to have an obsession with a certain type of criminal activity, looking for videos or pictures of actual crimes, that starts to go from research and into personal interests or paraphilia's. 

 

Basically everything that Google does, heads us towards a '1984' scenario, and ultimately if we don't want that kind of thing eroding personal freedom's, things need to change. But that runs head first into the other problem.

 

When you have unlimited personal freedom, you end up in a situation where there is no incentive to create or invent, anything. If you have a great idea, someone will just rip it off and present it as theirs. Copyright, Patent and Trademark laws were all created to address this, but then those laws changed to entrench "haves" against "have nots" and creates a similar class warfare that is perpetuated by totalitarianism. Your new kings are those sitting on billions of dollars in assets, same as the old kings that had to employ an army to protect their wealth.

 

File sharing and bittorrent was one way of pushing back against these kings. However piracy is non-discriminatory. So you have people who steal everything, and then demand payment for it's return, or access to stolen property just as much as you have people who steal everything and share for no cost. Hell the thing about piracy and share ratios goes all the way back to IRC channels. The inducement to steal based on finding things not yet stolen. Porn is cheap, film and games are expensive, and TV shows are hard to get high quality versions of before they are released on physical disc.

 

Where we are headed is into a next generation of "vtuber" influencer that is made up of AI, video/photo manipulation and audio/voice manipulation. Basically a DeepFake that requires no creative input to sockpuppet ideas to people who are gullible and easily influenced.

One could argue that the 2016 US election was just the opening salvo into manipulating social media networks into becoming pawns in manipulating not only who became the GOP representative, but how many people got fooled into believing that "draining the swamp" was going to come from the swamp monster. If anything the US's reputation has been irreparably damaged by outside forces, and that plays into the hands of other incredibly corrupt countries like China and Russia who would love play their cards once the US folds.

 

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

What's the most dystopian/worrying thing you can think of in tech, that could realistically happen?

 

I'll start with the worldwide deployment of image processing algorithms and face profiling technology, allowing constant tracking by governments and anyone who happens to break into their systems, over-enforcement of petty or dubious laws, etc. etc.

Firstly what you fear already happens. How many camera's are there in the city of London? Im sure the US uses similar tech, I think NYC has lots of camera's in select areas. 

 

My fear is unchecked AI and drones. With the US's use of drone aircraft, how long before all of that is computer/Ai controlled and there are no pilots? Basically I fear what happens in Terminator. 

[piratemonkey]

One of the most worrying things that are being used here in the west is something called linkability. 

Let's say that there is a crime committed at the corner of 1st and 2nd street (random streets). If I buy something using a bank card at the corner store, or used an ATM around there, or even used public transport (like a bus) with a card or ID, that can be linked to me. I could be falsely accused because of that.

Maybe there is a drug dealer dealing in a back alley. If I walk through that alley to go to my car, or to go wherever with my phone in my pocket, that can be used to falsely link me to buying drugs. 

Everytime you bring your phone somewhere, or use a bank card or similar ID, that can be used to link you to other people, to crimes and can be used for advertising. If you go to stores of a specific kind a lot, and they know what kind of community you live in, and other such info, that can be used for advertising. 

As far as I can tell, this only is really used for suspects for crimes, rather than being a silver bullet for a suspect (used for investigation, not prosecution).

This linkability is also used online with cookies, trackers etc. Facebook, Twitter and other social media companies have trackers so that if you create an account, or use their services they already have data about you. 

 

Another worrying possibility (that as far as I can tell) already happens is government surveillance on domestic citizens without a valid reason. 

I am a privacy advocate, and organizations such as the NSA and the CIA don't like them. The chances that there is extra scrutiny on any data relating to me is high. Even though I am a Canadien citizen, it is still a possibility. If I am right, if your data enters the US at all (google searches, emails, tweets, forum posts, anything on the internet you produce) the government can be tracked. This can even be without your knowledge. If Google moves all their Gmail storage temporarily to the US from a European server because of maintenance, the NSA, CIA etc. can store that, and can use that for anything they choose.

I think, no one is really sure of what those agencies can do which is a big problem. If I don't know what they're doing, I can't object or protest what they're doing.

 

Another worrying thing is that law enforcement is taking advantage of lawful assemblies to make arrests, or even conduct investigations. With the BLM protests, a lot of faces were not blurred in photos, which can be used to track suspects or to arrest them. While anything put on social media you should expect to be used for such things, it's still worrying. 

There's a lot of worrying things happening that either I don't know enough about, don't know anything about, or is too complex for me to understand and that is really bad.

This isn't even touching on what could happen in the next decade with governments controlling citizens through technology (like 1984). Also, such devices that are in 1984 that can be used to watch you and listen in on your conversations is pretty much your phone. 

I also agree with @Skipple with how we need to differentiate between authoritative governments and a "tech dystopia". I'm not sure how a tech dystopia would look like, but it most likely would be tech companies controlling the world through capitalism and controlling narratives about governments and other such entities for money or other gain. Though this is probably is what is happening, at least the former indirectly.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Basically everything that Google does, heads us towards a '1984' scenario, and ultimately if we don't want that kind of thing eroding personal freedom's, things need to change.

Modified fireFox is your friend. it's everyone's friend.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Where we are headed is into a next generation of "vtuber" influencer that is made up of AI, video/photo manipulation and audio/voice manipulation. Basically a DeepFake that requires no creative input to sockpuppet ideas to people who are gullible and easily influenced.

Has this ever been used in the real world yet? and is the tech there for most (like If I wanted to do it)?

[Kisai]

7 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

Has this ever been used in the real world yet? and is the tech there for most (like If I wanted to do it)?

A lot of it already exists, just they haven't all lined up:

https://www.fierceelectronics.com/electronics/editor-s-corner-how-ai-sneaking-up-all-us-especially-writers

Quote

In case you haven’t been following this trend, artificial intelligence has moved well beyond the plotline of the next Terminator sequel.

 

In actuality, AI side-stepped science fiction accounts with killer robots many years ago. Lately, it has entered into a highly sensitive area which really matters. Really! By that I mean it matters to me, personally, directly, (and what could be more important?), but also maybe some other reporters and wordsmiths in a variety of trades-- like presidential speech writers.

 

Could some AI system with a quirky name take my job and livelihood away from me any time soon? Or could AI cause my old writing professors to stop teaching how to create pithy headlines that get the most page views when a relatively dumb (but expensive and shiny) machine will someday soon do it much better?

Automated clickbait is already a thing in ad systems (just look at those crappy taboola and outbrain ads you see on low-quality sites.)

 

There's lots of Vtuber software out there now, https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_VTuber-related_software_and_resources

 

A lot of it came out of variations of MMD (MikuMikuDance) and OpenNI stuff done with the Xbox 360 Kinect, and kinda moved to just using regular cameras or mocap suits for stuff more complicated. No longer do you need to work in film to generate Miku's or Kizuna Ai's

 

Speaking of Miku's, Miku's voice and similar Vocaloid's exist. Text to Speech for both singing and talking have existed for quite a while.

 

Combine that with stuff like below:

https://medium.com/s/story/adobe-is-developing-photoshop-for-your-voice-f39f532bc75f

 

And you have that perfect scenario where you will eventually have an AI that can fake your voice and your face/body. Right now, (see that Linus video above) we're not at a level that it would be convincing to everyone, just convincing enough to people who haven't seen it before.

 

 

So it's presently possible to get enough photos and video of people (especially from people who like to take a lot of selfies) to re-create them in a context that they were never in. Thus potentially implicating them in crimes they have not committed and only exist in a purely fictional sense. All without being part of a TV show or film.

 

Imagine a day where every crime in your city was committed by the same person, because that person wanted to be infamous, but actually committed only one of the crimes, so that nobody is sure if they did or not.

 

[TempestCatto]

It's literally happening, and I suspect it will only get worse. If you talk about cats when you don't own one and don't know anyone who owns one, you will eventually start seeing ads for cat food or litter. They hear us, they see us, they know where we go, they know what we do. Hell, they know what kind of weird porn we're into. But what they don't know, is this segue to our sponsor...

 

 

Also this. Just...this:

[piratemonkey]

21 minutes ago, Kisai said:

So it's presently possible to get enough photos and video of people (especially from people who like to take a lot of selfies) to re-create them in a context that they were never in. Thus potentially implicating them in crimes they have not committed and only exist in a purely fictional sense. All without being part of a TV show or film.

I never thought of that possibility. At that point though, I would be in some bunker rocking back and forth due to everything that led up to that point

[atxcyclist]

Nearly every piece of technology involving movement tracking or surveillance has and is being used in a nefarious/dystopian way. Look at the response to covid: This tech is being sold as necessary to deal with the pandemic, but it will not be shut off or go away afterward. It only has to be touted as part of "the greater good" and lemmings will not only latch onto it, but they will eviscerate those that refuse to adopt them. 

[Andreas Lilja]

Deplatforming people based on their political beliefs.

 

Oh wait you mean in the future.

[Joseph K]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

One could argue that the 2016 US election was just the opening salvo into manipulating social media networks into becoming pawns in manipulating not only who became the GOP representative, but how many people got fooled into believing that "draining the swamp" was going to come from the swamp monster. If anything the US's reputation has been irreparably damaged by outside forces, and that plays into the hands of other incredibly corrupt countries like China and Russia who would love play their cards once the US folds.

 

Grasping at toothpicks.

[Joseph K]

2 hours ago, piratemonkey said:

I never thought of that possibility. At that point though, I would be in some bunker rocking back and forth due to everything that led up to that point

Look at the new Snoop Dogg music video.

[piratemonkey]

6 minutes ago, Joseph K said:

Look at the new Snoop Dogg music video.

what about it

[Jarsky]

Probably the movie Minority Report...the idea of sentencing people as guilty before they even know themselves that they were going to commit a crime. 

Destroying the whole basis of evidence based guilt, and being able to implicate anybody for anything. 

[straight_stewie]

9 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

What's the most dystopian/worrying thing you can think of in tech, that could realistically happen?

Basically just read this series:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance

Most of the things that people are mentioning here are already happening, and by multiple governments too.

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, Caroline said:

what kind of criminal would search for "how to murder someone" on google? that's pretty dumb

 

 

https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/fisc_annual_report_2019_0.pdf?_ga=2.48907046.1403996033.1598085892-425101261.1598085892

 

Quote

The FISC disclosed that it received 1,010 applications in 2019. After consideration by the court, 688 orders were granted, 264 orders were modified, 38 orders were denied in part, and 20 applications were denied in full. After completing the declassification review specified in 50 U.S.C. § 1873(a)(1), the U.S. Department of Justice advised the AO that the number of certifications submitted and the number of orders modified under 50 U.S.C. § 1881a are classified for national security reasons and so are not included in these totals. Two appointments of a total of two individuals to serve as amicus curiae were made by the FISA courts during this period.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/497819-senate-votes-to-reauthorize-intel-programs-with-new-protections?_ga=2.152645049.1403996033.1598085892-425101261.1598085892

 

And it was attempted to be removed:

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/116th-congress/senate-amendment/1583?s=a&r=3&_ga=2.10045877.1403996033.1598085892-425101261.1598085892

Quote

Purpose: S.Amdt. 1583 — 116th Congress (2019-2020)All Information (Except Text)

Purpose:

To remove internet website browsing information and search history from scope of authority to access certain business records for foreign intelligence and international terrorism investigations.

 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/unsealed-fbi-search-warrants-reveal-long-history-of-drug-abuse-by-oregon-district-shooter/FLK5WP6WG5GBFC5ZTO47ULE4FM/

Quote

The FBI also applied and received search warrants for his Facebook, Google and other accounts.

 

Authorities submitted a preservation request for his Facebook account on Aug. 4. Facebook disabled his account.

 

So imagine if google could be compelled to notify the FBI anytime someone "thoughtcrimes", they can already do it without much oversight already and never tell you.

 

[Kisai]

6 hours ago, Joseph K said:

Grasping at toothpicks.

Americans are unfortunately known for being gullible idiots in the rest of the world, there was a report not that long ago that basically said that right-wing leaning people will easily fall for misinformation, and left-wing leaning people are not convinced as easily and thus the easiest way to influence an election is to just dump as much misinformation about the left-wing politician to make right-wing people as scared as possible about them getting elected.

 

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2020/06/17/who-shares-most-fake-news-new-study-sheds-light

Quote

A decade or two ago, traditional news organizations played a key gatekeeping role in determining what was true or not true,” said Hopp. “Now, with the proliferation of social media and with traditional news organizations under financial distress, there is a sea change occurring in the way that information flows through society.”

 

Previous research has shown that older adults and those who identify as Republican are more likely to share fake news. But Hopp wanted to go beyond demographic or political labels.

“We wanted to look at more nuanced factors indicating how these people see the world around them,” Hopp said.

 

To do so, his team recruited 783 regular Facebook and Twitter users over the age of 18 and, with their permission, collected and analyzed all of their posts for the period between August 1, 2015, and June 6, 2017 (before, during, and after the 2016 election). Participants also took a lengthy survey to assess their ideological conservatism vs. liberalism and identify how much they trusted friends, family and community members, and mainstream media.

The researchers then looked at who shared content from 106 websites identified as fake news or “countermedia” sites by watchdog groups or legacy news organizations like NPR or U.S. News & World Report.

 

“Despite the fact that we tend to call it ‘fake’ news, a lot of this stuff is not completely false,” said Hopp, who prefers the term “countermedia.” “Rather, it is grossly biased, misleading and hyper-partisan, omitting important information.”

 

The good news: 71% of Facebook users and 95% of Twitter users shared no countermedia posts. The bad news: 1,152 pieces of fake news were shared via Facebook, with a single user responsible for 171. On Twitter, 128 pieces of countermedia were shared.

 

“We found that Facebook is the central conduit for the transfer of fake news,” said Hopp.

In the Facebook sample, those self-identified as extremely conservative—7 on a scale of 1 to 7—accounted for the most fake news shared, at 26%. In the Twitter sample, 32% of fake news shares came from those who scored a 7.

 

But those who scored a 1, identifying as extremely liberal, also shared fake news frequently, accounting for 17.5% of shares on Facebook and 16.4% on Twitter.

 

The reason left-wing people don't fall for political misinformation that much is because it's not as profitable to the one pushing it when right-wing people are more profitable to scam. Those operating fake news under the guise of trutherism also have no qualms about pushing harmful products. They don't care if they are scamming you.

 

Heck, any time someone says something hyper-partisan on a forum, including this one, you should consider the possibility that they are astroturfing for something. It's not always clear why someone says something ridiculous. Now imagine if there are AI bots that are capable of producing "posts" that actually sound intelligent enough that it fools the typical person not paying attention to this. A tech forum is less likely to be filled with people who don't scrutinize news posts. However places like reddit are not tech forums, they're catch-alls, and it can take a very long time before problems bubble up to the surface.