Another Sony LEAK: WH1000-XM4 launching on 24th June ???

[rahulr94]

Dell Canada has started showing the WH-1000XM4 on the product buy page and says that it will start shipping from 06/24. 

 

The link seems to be active till this was posted:

https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/sony-wh-1000xm4-headphones-with-mic/apd/ab133691/audio?gacd=9683780-3004-5761040-0-0&dgc=st&gclid=CjwKCAjw5vz2BRAtEiwAbcVIL_coqiqz6IYtn4iNW7rLRiaEW0Dd7Rha3qQpqPa6_MWhWTymUKTJPxoCyH0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

All the features do check out with whatever has been leaked till now. 

 

Its also out on adorama:

https://www.adorama.com/sowh1000xm4b.html

 

but they don't mention any shipping date.

 

Do you guys think it will be released during the PS5 event ?

 

 

[soldier_ph]

Ah yes can't wait for the XM4s, I'm currently on the WH-H900N and it is time for an upgrade.

[Techstorm970]

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

[LAwLz]

17 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

Why?

I bought my WH100-XM3 for around that price and they have been fantastic. Totally worth the price. If they broke then I'd buy another pair in a heartbeat. Well, either those or the Bose QC35 II.

 

 

 

 

One major drawback with these is that according to rumors, they will only have Bluetooth 5.0, which is pretty typical.

The problem with that is that Bluetooth 5.2 is required for Bluetooth LE Audio, which is a MASSIVE upgrade to audio over Bluetooth. We're talking a massive uplift in every single way, audio quality, energy efficiency, latency, features, etc. It might be worth waiting for the XM5 just for Bluetooth LE alone. These headphones are really expensive and if you're buying something like this you want them to last. Once Bluetooth 5.2 is released we will basically see a "generational" shift in Bluetooth audio technology.

 

[melete]

23 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

This was the going price of the old XM3s, just fyi. Bose cost about the same. Microsoft has their new Surface Headphones 2 at around $250 USD if you are looking for a cheaper pair of noise canceling headphones. 

[Guest]

Might go for the upgrade. 

[Tech Enthusiast]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:12 PM, Techstorm970 said:

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

You did not try them then.

If you do, you suddenly forget the price.

They are that good, simple as that.

 

Bought mine for 250 about two months ago. Kind of sad they get replaced so soon, but thats what you get in Tech, where upgrades come yearly.

Once these ones die for some reason, ill buy another pair right away, without even thinking about the price.

[LastLivingSouls]

I have the XM3's and love them.  But they are so good that at this point I'll probably wait till there is a major breakthrough in allowing multiple bluetooth connections and seamless switching of sources before I upgrade.  That is the next major frontier, IMO.

[Yebi]

Another owner of XM3 checking in, definitely worth the price. Though I don't know if there's a point in making a big deal out of a refresh, sound equipment doesn't really age the same way other tech stuff does. Just buy whatever is out at the time, there probably won't be a huge difference, just like there wasn't one between XM3 and XM2

[The Torrent]

On 6/10/2020 at 9:12 PM, Techstorm970 said:

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

Hah this guys deffo not a head fi enthusiast  

[The Torrent]

1 hour ago, Yebi said:

Another owner of XM3 checking in, definitely worth the price. Though I don't know if there's a point in making a big deal out of a refresh, sound equipment doesn't really age the same way other tech stuff does. Just buy whatever is out at the time, there probably won't be a huge difference, just like there wasn't one between XM3 and XM2

Wasn’t much of a difference? I never tried 3 but I was told they massively upgraded noice cancelling.

 

sound quality tho no it was exact same speakers.

[The Torrent]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:49 PM, LAwLz said:

Why?

I bought my WH100-XM3 for around that price and they have been fantastic. Totally worth the price. If they broke then I'd buy another pair in a heartbeat. Well, either those or the Bose QC35 II.

 

 

 

 

One major drawback with these is that according to rumors, they will only have Bluetooth 5.0, which is pretty typical.

The problem with that is that Bluetooth 5.2 is required for Bluetooth LE Audio, which is a MASSIVE upgrade to audio over Bluetooth. We're talking a massive uplift in every single way, audio quality, energy efficiency, latency, features, etc. It might be worth waiting for the XM5 just for Bluetooth LE alone. These headphones are really expensive and if you're buying something like this you want them to last. Once Bluetooth 5.2 is released we will basically see a "generational" shift in Bluetooth audio technology.

 

Does the 0.3ms latency really make a difference to audio quality.

 

sorry I made up that number idk what the latency is but is it really gonna make a difference to audio quality at all if I mean my xm2’s where promising what was it like 1.2gbps or something which is more than enough for lossless flac.

 

sligjty battery gain that might be it but what will it do go from like 50 hours to 50.5?

 

sorry making those numbers up again.

[StDragon]

On 6/11/2020 at 3:26 PM, Tech Enthusiast said:

Bought mine for 250 about two months ago. Kind of sad they get replaced so soon, but thats what you get in Tech, where upgrades come yearly.

Sure, if you we're expecting to hold on to the latest version for some reason. But I'd say you got a real good deal for those even today at $250. Months from now long after these launch, I still say you got a good deal for the model you have.

 

Now if you paid $350, yeah, that would suck badly.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, The Torrent said:

Does the 0.3ms latency really make a difference to audio quality.

Yes. For video watching and stuff like that it doesn't really matter. Android (and I believe iOS) compensates for it by deliberately making the video and audio out of sync, so that it ends up matching once the Bluetooth latency is added. The problem is that this does not work for things like games or other "static sound" (and by that I mean sound that the OS can predict).

Here is a test from "SoundGuys" where they tested the Bluetooth audio latency of a couple of different Android phones. It ranges from about 250ms to 550 ms, with about a 30ms variance between tests.

For comparison, humans in general will notice that things are out of sync (like a human speaking and the audio not matching the lips) at delays larger than -125ms or +45ms. So if Android didn't compensate for the Bluetooth audio delay for videos, Bluetooth would be so bad people would barely be able to watch videos with it. It is really that bad. the voice would be about half a second after the lips moved. It would look and sound terrible.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Torrent said:

sorry I made up that number idk what the latency is but is it really gonna make a difference to audio quality at all if I mean my xm2’s where promising what was it like 1.2gbps or something which is more than enough for lossless flac.

The WH1000-XM2 actually has Bluetooth 4.1 so they top out at about 24Mbps if I recall correctly. But like you said, it should be enough for FLAC. But the problem is that Bluetooth does not support FLAC. Bluetooth devices only support a handful of audio codecs, and FLAC is not one of them. In a lot of cases, you will end up using SBC which is worse than MP3 in terms of quality.

That 24Mbps of bandwidth? All that is used to deliver an audio signal that is basically like a 200Kbps MP3, in a lot of cases.

It's best to use AAC or aptX (HD) with the Sony WH-1000. You get way better audio quality. Sony also has "LDAC" which is almost lossless but that relies on your master device supporting it too, which is fine if you're on Android but a problem if you use anything else.

Realistically, everybody using the Bluetooth standard for high quality audio will be best. It will provide far better compatibility. LC3 (the new Bluetooth LE Audio standard codec) will provide better audio quality at 160Kbps, than SBC provided at 345Kbps.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Torrent said:

sligjty battery gain that might be it but what will it do go from like 50 hours to 50.5?

Not sure how big difference it will be. Probably not that big in such large headphones as the WH1000, but still, why not?

Probably a bigger deal for "true wireless" earbuds. The additional features like audio broadcasting and connecting multiple devices to a single source are great additions though, even to the WH1000.

[WereCat]

16 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yes. For video watching and stuff like that it doesn't really matter. Android (and I believe iOS) compensates for it by deliberately making the video and audio out of sync, so that it ends up matching once the Bluetooth latency is added. The problem is that this does not work for things like games or other "static sound" (and by that I mean sound that the OS can predict).

Here is a test from "SoundGuys" where they tested the Bluetooth audio latency of a couple of different Android phones. It ranges from about 250ms to 550 ms, with about a 30ms variance between tests.

For comparison, humans in general will notice that things are out of sync (like a human speaking and the audio not matching the lips) at delays larger than -125ms or +45ms. So if Android didn't compensate for the Bluetooth audio delay for videos, Bluetooth would be so bad people would barely be able to watch videos with it. It is really that bad. the voice would be about half a second after the lips moved. It would look and sound terrible.

 

 

The WH1000-XM2 actually has Bluetooth 4.1 so they top out at about 24Mbps if I recall correctly. But like you said, it should be enough for FLAC. But the problem is that Bluetooth does not support FLAC. Bluetooth devices only support a handful of audio codecs, and FLAC is not one of them. In a lot of cases, you will end up using SBC which is worse than MP3 in terms of quality.

That 24Mbps of bandwidth? All that is used to deliver an audio signal that is basically like a 200Kbps MP3, in a lot of cases.

It's best to use AAC or aptX (HD) with the Sony WH-1000. You get way better audio quality. Sony also has "LDAC" which is almost lossless but that relies on your master device supporting it too, which is fine if you're on Android but a problem if you use anything else.

Realistically, everybody using the Bluetooth standard for high quality audio will be best. It will provide far better compatibility. LC3 (the new Bluetooth LE Audio standard codec) will provide better audio quality at 160Kbps, than SBC provided at 345Kbps.

 

 

Not sure how big difference it will be. Probably not that big in such large headphones as the WH1000, but still, why not?

Probably a bigger deal for "true wireless" earbuds. The additional features like audio broadcasting and connecting multiple devices to a single source are great additions though, even to the WH1000.

I have the XM3 and if I really focus (and I mean really, really focus) then I can notice the delay. But I use their LDAC codec with my Android phone which I know is not available for iOS so things may differ. I don't know for sure. 

 

My JBL Boombox has a really terrible delay that I can notice immediately in comparison. 

 

Anyways, I don't find the delay on the XM3 to be of any disadvantage vs a wired headphones for watching movies or listening to music. 

 

The ANC is really nice, I exclusively use them only with ANC and I enjoy being disconnected from the world around me. 

[Stormseeker9]

XM3 owner here. Fucking fantastic headphones. Songs suddenly sound completely different compared to what you are normally used too. 

[Yebi]

18 hours ago, The Torrent said:

Wasn’t much of a difference? I never tried 3 but I was told they massively upgraded noice cancelling.

Well, I've never tried 2, so can't be sure That did seem to be the conclusion of most reviews that I read before buying though

[WereCatf]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:12 PM, Techstorm970 said:

$350 headset...

My eyes are bleeding...

Quite, indeed! I would never pay even half that just for a headset.

[ZuckyT]

@rahulr94 Just do you know, both of the links are now dead.

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 6/15/2020 at 5:22 PM, Stormseeker9 said:

XM3 owner here. Fucking fantastic headphones. Songs suddenly sound completely different compared to what you are normally used too. 

What if I’m used to real headphones, with proper amplification and signal conversion?
 

You guys may not know, but you are paying mostly for the extras, not sound. Pay a visit to a local hifi audio store and you’ll likely get out with different a opinion.

[SeraphicWings]

Literally no difference compare to the XM3

 

I got the XM3 for $248 brand new, can't be happier about it

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

What if I’m used to real headphones, with proper amplification and signal conversion?
 

You guys may not know, but you are paying mostly for the extras, not sound. Pay a visit to a local hifi audio store and you’ll likely get out with different a opinion.

What's up with the demeaning tone?

 

 

I got reference headphones at home, with a discrete DAC and amp. Do they sound better than my 1000-XM3? Well they certainly sound different. My AKG headphones are far more neutral and accurate. That does not necessarily mean better though. But like you said, what you are paying for are the extras, which are WAAAAAY better with the Sony headphones.

 

• Wireless? Absolutely fantastic. I could not use my AKGs while at work, neither would I want to. They are a bit too bulky and with the cable I would risk getting it caught in stuff.
• Being able to properly drive them from my phone? Yes please. My phone would probably struggle to drive my desktop headphones properly, but since the Sony's has a battery powered built in amp they work great no matter what they are connected to.
• Active noise cancellation. Oh God yes! This is the sole purpose to why I bought the Sony ones. I am not sure if you have ever been in a data center, but I have. I am in data centers quite often, and it can be VERY loud in those. Having active noise cancellation is like night and day.
• The mic on the Sony headphones is awful, but it is good enough for some quick phone calls if I happen to get one while having them on me. Freeing up your hands can sometimes be invaluable.

 

I think comparing these headphones with some (in your words) "real headphones with a proper amp and DAC" is like comparing a hammer and a screwdriver. Is one better for hammering in a nail? Absolutely, but if you have a screw that needs to be screwed in then clearly the screwdriver is the better tool for the job.

[Stormseeker9]

3 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

What if I’m used to real headphones, with proper amplification and signal conversion?
 

You guys may not know, but you are paying mostly for the extras, not sound. Pay a visit to a local hifi audio store and you’ll likely get out with different a opinion.

Got my headphones at the local hifi store. I wa deciding between them and the Bowers wilkens headphones.

[3rrant]

3 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

What if I’m used to real headphones, with proper amplification and signal conversion?
 

You guys may not know, but you are paying mostly for the extras, not sound. Pay a visit to a local hifi audio store and you’ll likely get out with different a opinion.

You can't bring a full audio kit everywhere. Comparing a wireless/bt headset to a full audio setup is so wrong. You should compare them to other similiar options.

[AnonymousGuy]

They going to have to sell me on how it's better than the xm3's that I already have.