Canon EOS R5 and R6 Product Announcement

[GDRRiley]

2 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I think Canon knows as this camera has been in development for a while. The initial RF launch was more of a stopgap in terms of the bodies as it was all about the mount and the lenses.

get the mount started, some companies working on 3rd party lenses and making sure canons own glass has started to circulate around.

 

Cannon arguably needs a refreshed low end cine camera the c100mk2 is looking tired. I'd love a c100mk3 with 2.5-2.8K 60 and 1080p 120

I'd hope canon also sticks with a trend they started of reusing old bodies so you can keep the same accessories and things like expensive extra XLR ins don't have such a short life given they don't really change.

[Commodus]

9 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

I think Canon knows as this camera has been in development for a while. The initial RF launch was more of a stopgap in terms of the bodies as it was all about the mount and the lenses.

Quite possibly.  I just know that Canon and Nikon are classic Japanese companies in that they not only have very long roadmaps, but are notoriously slow to adapt.  Sony stands out precisely because it treats cameras more like any other electronics with (relatively) rapid iteration.

[jasonvp]

43 minutes ago, Commodus said:

I just know that Canon and Nikon are classic Japanese companies in that they not only have very long roadmaps, but are notoriously slow to adapt.  Sony stands out precisely because it treats cameras more like any other electronics with (relatively) rapid iteration.

Like a lot of their fans, I suspect both of the big two were just trying to ignore the mirrorless cameras, assuming they'd be a "fad".  I was, admittedly, amongst said group of fans.  Choosing instead to steer hard into Canon's 1D series with the 1Ds, 1Dx, and 1Dx Mk II.  Clearly they were dabbling in the market, and then finally jumped in with their respective new mounts and camera body systems.  But for whatever reason, they just didn't give the bodies the love that was needed to compete with Sony.  The lenses were and are superb, of course.  But what good is that new lens mount system (eg: RF on Canon) if the bodies are... meh?

 

Canon's mostly been asleep, I think.  Sony woke Canon up, and now their mirrorless efforts are firing on all 8 cylinders.  It's pretty highly believed that the 1Dx Mk III is the last of the mighty 1D DSLR line.  Anything professional-level out of them from now on will be mirrorless.  And the EF mount is a dead duck from an innovation perspective, as well.  Don't expect anything new with the EFs at all.

 

(As a new C500 Mark II owner, that sorta sucks.  Oh well).

 

[YellowJersey]

Having shot with Canon for over a decade before jumping ship to Sony and having worked in a camera shop, I think that this can be one of two things:

 

1) Canon will still cripple the R5 in some as-of-yet unknown way

2) The R5 won't be crippled, but Canon will revert back to its old ways in future iterations; that this is another 5D mkII and the R5 mkII will be another 5D mkIII.

[ThePointblank]

A note; I suspect Canon has also admitted what is the stills resolution to the camera based upon what they revealed here.

 

Canon noted that the R5 records 8K DCI, using the full width of the sensor. 8K DCI is which is 8192×4320. As such, the sensor would be 8192 pixels wide. Canon sensors use a 3:2 aspect ratio, so that would mean the height of the sensor is 5462 pixels, which equals 44.7MP. That is inline with the rumours that were circulating about.

 

Apparently the person behind Canon Rumors mentioned on Twitter that he has a sample RAW file from an R5, and the resolution of the file was of the file is 8192x5464. That equals 44.7MP.
 

 

[GDRRiley]

14 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

1) Canon will still cripple the R5 in some as-of-yet unknown way

if they don't let us adjust the bitrate CF cards will be the limit good luck getting a 250gb or even 500gb card to last. I hope they put usbc for SSDs on it.

[ThePointblank]

47 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

if they don't let us adjust the bitrate CF cards will be the limit good luck getting a 250gb or even 500gb card to last. I hope they put usbc for SSDs on it.

The 1D-X Mark III 5.5K RAW video chews through 1800 Mbps in 30p mode and 2600 Mbps in 60p. You can complete fill a 1TB CFExpress card with the 5.5K RAW@ 60p footage in 50 minutes.

 

I would expect 8K RAW will fill up a 1TB CFExpress card much quicker...

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, ThePointblank said:

The 1D-X Mark III 5.5K RAW video chews through 1800 Mbps in 30p mode and 2600 Mbps in 60p. You can complete fill a 1TB CFExpress card with the 5.5K RAW@ 60p footage in 50 minutes.

 

I would expect 8K RAW will fill up a 1TB CFExpress card much quicker...

yeah, that was my point. unless we get some kind of amazing storage option rip being able to record for long.

I wish camera makes were pushing m.2 PCIE drives in hot swap cases, those plus smaller mSATA drives for lower speed would be so much nicer than these crazy expensive cfast express cards. 600$ for a 512 is insane. the only thing more pricey are the proprietary drives uses by cine cameras.

[ThePointblank]

1 minute ago, GDRRiley said:

yeah, that was my point. unless we get some kind of amazing storage option rip being able to record for long.

I wish camera makes were pushing m.2 PCIE drives in hot swap cases, those plus smaller mSATA drives for lower speed would be so much nicer than these crazy expensive cfast express cards. 600$ for a 512 is insane. the only thing more pricey are the proprietary drives uses by cine cameras.

I would expect CFExpress cards will over time increase in capacity and go down in price as availability improves. CFExpress is a fairly new standard, and card manufacturers have only recently started releasing cards for it.

[GDRRiley]

9 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

I would expect CFExpress cards will over time increase in capacity and go down in price as availability improves. CFExpress is a fairly new standard, and card manufacturers have only recently started releasing cards for it.

yeah I guess there is only 8-10 cameras out with it.

[Mihle]

17 hours ago, Commodus said:

Quite possibly.  I just know that Canon and Nikon are classic Japanese companies in that they not only have very long roadmaps, but are notoriously slow to adapt.  Sony stands out precisely because it treats cameras more like any other electronics with (relatively) rapid iteration.

Fujifilm too

[ThePointblank]

24 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

yeah I guess there is only 8-10 cameras out with it.

The first camera that had CFExpress was the Canon EOS C500 Mark II, and that was only late last year. So far from what I remember, it's currently only the C500 Mark II, the 1D-X Mark III and now the R5 that all use CFExpress.

 

I believe Nikon will be releasing firmware updates to their Z6, Z7, D850, D500 and D5's to which will allow these cameras to be used with CFExpress memory, instead of XQD cards.

 

And it was only September last year were the first CFExpress cards on sale, with Sandisk leading the way.

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, ThePointblank said:

The first camera that had CFExpress was the Canon EOS C500 Mark II, and that was only late last year. So far from what I remember, it's currently only the C500 Mark II, the 1D-X Mark III and now the R5 that all use CFExpress.

 

I believe Nikon will be releasing firmware updates to their Z6, Z7, D850, D500 and D5's to which will allow these cameras to be used with CFExpress memory, instead of XQD cards.

 

And it was only September last year were the first CFExpress cards on sale, with Sandisk leading the way.

Panasonic has 1-2 body’s listed on B&H as using cf expresses. Z6,z7,d6 are listed as well so maybe they pushed out that update 

[jasonvp]

3 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

if they don't let us adjust the bitrate CF cards will be the limit good luck getting a 250gb or even 500gb card to last. I hope they put usbc for SSDs on it.

They haven't done that on the Cine cameras and I've been pressing Canon for that very thing.  Actually, I'd rather it were Thunderbolt-3 so they have no excuses with regards to port bandwidth.  There's no way to get feedback directly to the Canon engineers or product managers though; so my only path is through their Cine support (which is a great deal better than the photo camera support).

 

 

[YellowJersey]

12 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

if they don't let us adjust the bitrate CF cards will be the limit good luck getting a 250gb or even 500gb card to last. I hope they put usbc for SSDs on it.

On the one hand, I'm glad I don't shoot video since video is where the market segmentation and shenanigans seem to be focused.

 On the other hand, since the focus is on video, the advancement of stills photography tech seems to be pretty slow.

 On the other other hand, it's getting harder and harder to really "wow" me with stills capabilities. We're hitting a ceiling as to just how much better cameras for stills can really get.

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, YellowJersey said:

On the one hand, I'm glad I don't shoot video since video is where the market segmentation and shenanigans seem to be focused.

 On the other hand, since the focus is on video, the advancement of stills photography tech seems to be pretty slow.

 On the other other hand, it's getting harder and harder to really "wow" me with stills capabilities. We're hitting a ceiling as to just how much better cameras for stills can really get.

I'm in the middle shooting photos and video for fun but all my client work is videos. I'm shooting on older and midrange DSLRs, I'd love to spend the money to jump up to a full cine camera but I'm not spending it on a C100mk2 which shoots the same quality as the DSLRs I use.

the R and this R5 peak my interest but I can't justify 3-5k.

[YellowJersey]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm in the middle shooting photos and video for fun but all my client work is videos. I'm shooting on older and midrange DSLRs, I'd love to spend the money to jump up to a full cine camera but I'm not spending it on a C100mk2 which shoots the same quality as the DSLRs I use.

the R and this R5 peak my interest but I can't justify 3-5k.

I gotta say, I'm kind of glad I don't do video. It sounds expensive!

 I'm curious to know how eager many video shooters, those aren't using super expensive cine cameras, are to shoot in 8k instead of 4k. I don't know anyone who consumes content in 4k; it seems like the vast majority are still consuming in 1080. While shooting in 4k makes sense for production, I wonder, given consumption resolutions, if many people are going to be that eager to shoot in 8k. I wonder how many would, at least for the time being, consider it overkill? Given the file sizes and workstations required to edit and export, I wonder if it seems like too much of a hassle?

[jasonvp]

41 minutes ago, YellowJersey said:

While shooting in 4k makes sense for production, I wonder, given consumption resolutions, if many people are going to be that eager to shoot in 8k. I wonder how many would, at least for the time being, consider it overkill? Given the file sizes and workstations required to edit and export, I wonder if it seems like too much of a hassle?

Whether folks consume the 4K or not, a lot of content producers on YouTube have or are moving to it.  If you watch vids from folks who actually work in the industry, you'll note their top resolution selection on YouTube is, in fact, often 4K.  That means if they want the same options as 4K gives a 1080p output, they need to shoot > 4K of course.  That's where 6 and 8K come in.  Right now, those folks don't have that sort of option unless they're shooting with a Cine; most DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are still topping out at 4K.  Some even go so far as to record in 1080p and scale UP to 4K (yuck!)

 

These folks are all eager for 8K.  There will be significant challenges with it though, specially if they shoot in RAW.  Mainly: they're going to find themselves running out of expensive CFExpress card space real quick.  They'll be able to switch to h.265 as a recording CODEC, but editing h.265 is a bitch on CPUs.  Editing 8K h.265 will be a bitch on even good CPUs.  So hopefully those folks are using NLEs with hardware-based decoders.

 

ETA: How many folkin' times did I use the word "folks"?

[YellowJersey]

8 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

Whether folks consume the 4K or not, a lot of content producers on YouTube have or are moving to it.  If you watch vids from folks who actually work in the industry, you'll note their top resolution selection on YouTube is, in fact, often 4K.  That means if they want the same options as 4K gives a 1080p output, they need to shoot > 4K of course.  That's where 6 and 8K come in.  Right now, those folks don't have that sort of option unless they're shooting with a Cine; most DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are still topping out at 4K.  Some even go so far as to record in 1080p and scale UP to 4K (yuck!)

 

These folks are all eager for 8K.  There will be significant challenges with it though, specially if they shoot in RAW.  Mainly: they're going to find themselves running out of expensive CFExpress card space real quick.  They'll be able to switch to h.265 as a recording CODEC, but editing h.265 is a bitch on CPUs.  Editing 8K h.265 will be a bitch on even good CPUs.  So hopefully those folks are using NLEs with hardware-based decoders.

 

ETA: How many folkin' times did I use the word "folks"?

You make a persuasive argument.

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, YellowJersey said:

I gotta say, I'm kind of glad I don't do video. It sounds expensive!

 I'm curious to know how eager many video shooters, those aren't using super expensive cine cameras, are to shoot in 8k instead of 4k. I don't know anyone who consumes content in 4k; it seems like the vast majority are still consuming in 1080. While shooting in 4k makes sense for production, I wonder, given consumption resolutions, if many people are going to be that eager to shoot in 8k. I wonder how many would, at least for the time being, consider it overkill? Given the file sizes and workstations required to edit and export, I wonder if it seems like too much of a hassle?

I just shoot on a 60D and canon sl2 with a few lenses. 18-135, 75-300, 50  and 35mm primes. audio I'm on and old zoom h4 with some borrowed cos-11D.

I did just get my first prosumer fluid head tripod a silk pro 340QF. I've looked at cameras like C100mk2 used and Blackmagic cine cameras but I don't do enough work. I get 3-4 big jobs a year. once you've spend the upfront its only HDD and expendables like gels and tape.

 

potato jet has done comparisons and I'd rather shoot high quality 1080p over low bitrate 4k, the big thing about 4k and 8k is perfect down sampling. 16 to 1. meaning you can do things like higher iso and even if exposure isn't perfect it gets evened out.

4k isn't hard now, I do 1440p 60-100mbs screen record in h.265 and my 580/2700 does fine in resolve 16. ryzen+ amds gpus great compute has made it easy.

one of the fastest GPUs for reslvoe is the Radeon VII. it has both the power and large memory needed.

2 hours ago, jasonvp said:

These folks are all eager for 8K.  There will be significant challenges with it though, specially if they shoot in RAW.  Mainly: they're going to find themselves running out of expensive CFExpress card space real quick.  They'll be able to switch to h.265 as a recording CODEC, but editing h.265 is a bitch on CPUs.  Editing 8K h.265 will be a bitch on even good CPUs.  So hopefully those folks are using NLEs with hardware-based decoders.

not even card space but also storage. your going to hit a point where even a small project is 20tb+ let alone a bigger on.

Really what canon needs is blackmagic flexible raw as canons raw is just too data heavy.

 

the R5 for video is looking like its going to need as much spend on CF and HDD as the body itself.

[ThePointblank]

A now private video that was posted on Youtube from someone that clearly has a EOS R5 in their hands and using it reveals some more specs and features:

 

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-zebras-can-turn-8k-into-uber-4k

 

From what can be seen, we see the camera clearly is a video-centric camera. There are zebra peaking, and the camera apparently has the ability to process 8K footage shot into hyper-oversampled 4K video internally. The R5 also has a View Assist function, which allows you to shoot flat footage while seeing a preview, while recording in Canon Log, of how the footage will look after it has been graded. 

[GDRRiley]

@ThePointblank

dam this has all the video features.

[ThePointblank]

A few new updates:

 

Canon's virtual product launch is on July 9th, with a broadcast time starting at 8:00am EST:

 

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/virtual-product-launch

https://petapixel.com/2020/07/02/its-official-canon-schedules-virtual-product-launch-for-july-9th-at-8am-et/

 

Expected to be announced is as follows per PetaPixel:

 

• Canon EOS R5
• Canon EOS R6
• Canon RF 85mm f/2 Macro IS STM
• Canon RF 100-500mm f/4-7.1L IS USM
• Canon RF 600mm f/11
• Canon RF 800mm f/11
• Canon RF 1.4x Teleconverter
• Canon RF 2x Teleconverter
• RF Battery Grip
• A slew of relevant accessories

Also being reported is that the EOS R5 is a monster at video, with leaked information indicating that the EOS R5 has no crop in 8K or 4K/120p, and the camera doesn’t seem to be limited by overheating issues:

 

https://petapixel.com/2020/07/06/8k-modes-for-canon-eos-r5-leaked-no-crop-no-overheating-issues/

 

Apparently, per the leaked image, the EOS R5 was able to fill a 512GB CFExpress card with 8K RAW footage, for a total of 21:31 minutes of record time, without overheating.

 

Very impressive. I wonder how Canon is handling the heat output to process and record 8K RAW footage. They must have some trick up their sleeve to make it work without a known recording limit.

[NovusBal]

As a complete unaware camera peasant: Where does the EOS R5 sit in terms of competition and Pricing? (Based on rumours, pinch of salt, etc)

[ThePointblank]

16 hours ago, NovusBal said:

As a complete unaware camera peasant: Where does the EOS R5 sit in terms of competition and Pricing? (Based on rumours, pinch of salt, etc)

It's a mirrorless replacement for the 5D Mark IV, so it is a Nikon D850 and Sony A7R III and IV competitor. That sort of competition says the camera should be a sub $4000 USD camera.