TESLA Turn A Profit! (0.80USD per share)

[GOTSpectrum]

https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/23/tesla-2019-q3-earnings/

 

 

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Tesla had hoped to deliver 100,000 vehicles during the second half of 2019. The company has fallen short but just barely. More importantly, it was able to turn a $143 million profit and it reports that the Shanghai plant is ahead of schedule.

The real question is here, have they really made a profit or is it creative book-keeping, I heard the guys over at Tesla are good at cooking....

 

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Tesla says it was able to turn a $143 million profit by lowering operating costs.

They have been kicking some large number of staff out the door, but its hard to imagine that this alone has made such a massive difference.

 

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Today's numbers are just shy of the company's hope to produce 100,000 during the quarter. Still, it's the largest amount of Teslas being built in a single quarter.

They are still looking to hit that number they have been promising for some time, but, if the profit isn't simply a one off, I can see them being able to put in the investments they need to hit and exceed they target sooner rather than later.

 

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the company announced that it was beginning vehicle production in its new Shanghai Gigafactory on a trial basis. 

I think we need to look at Tesla closely over the nest few quarters, they really are under pressure to prove they can make it, especially in china, and the world looks at them as market leaders in EV technology and use it as a metric for the whole market, even if this is wrong realistically. 

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Today's news pushed the stock up to $299.44 in after-hours trading when this piece was published.

This is one reason I am always dubious on what Tesla claim to made a profit.

 

 

I'm not one for posting news so if anything is amiss let me know, but I couldn't see anyone having posted this one yet, I'm really excited to see if Tesla can make it, not only are they into EVs but also grid scale batteries and solar installations. The truth is they don't have much special, secret sauce for the most part that make them much better than the competition, but one more EV company turning a profit is a step in the right direction in my book.

[spartaman64]

elon has done some dumb things but i think hes probably not that dumb also theres people at tesla that would probably object to such a practice. but idk whether to believe them on the shanghai plant or not thats the problem with a guy as "optimistic" as elon

[williamcll]

Maybe one day I will have enough money to afford a car, let alone a tesla.

[COTG]

1 hour ago, williamcll said:

Maybe one day I will have enough money to afford a car, let alone a tesla.

a model 3 is actually really damn cheap

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, COTG said:

a model 3 is actually really damn cheap

A used 2006 Corolla/Civic etc is cheaper, way the hell cheaper.

[porina]

5 hours ago, COTG said:

a model 3 is actually really damn cheap

It is relative. I can buy 3 of my current car, NEW, for the price of a basic Model 3.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

A used 2006 Corolla/Civic etc is cheaper, way the hell cheaper.

Also, do the math on a carbon footprint of the total use of a second hand car.

[GOTSpectrum]

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Also, do the math on a carbon footprint of the total use of a second hand car.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the funds available to care much for the environment. The fact that being eco-friendly or not is a choice of economy rather than morality is still a hard pill to swallow. The time will come when that isn't the case. But, for now, we will have to take it as it comes. 

 

For myself, I was a competitive cyclist a few years ago, I cycled everywhere, to work, uni, for social events. But, unfortunately, I am not able to cycle at all anymore due to medical reasons. I'm relegated to taking fossil fuelled transportation, to which I am quite unhappy. 

[TechyBen]

5 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

Unfortunately, not everyone has the funds available to care much for the environment. The fact that being eco-friendly or not is a choice of economy rather than morality is still a hard pill to swallow. The time will come when that isn't the case. But, for now, we will have to take it as it comes. 

 

For myself, I was a competitive cyclist a few years ago, I cycled everywhere, to work, uni, for social events. But, unfortunately, I am not able to cycle at all anymore due to medical reasons. I'm relegated to taking fossil fuelled transportation, to which I am quite unhappy. 

Um... as said. Check the carbon footprint of buying old second hand. You may be surprised it's the opposite to what you think I was suggesting:

 

(Yet somehow they also argue that electric cars are "always green", which... um, is some mental gymnastics if I ever saw it)

https://thecorrespondent.com/7056/why-electric-cars-are-always-green-and-how-they-could-get-greener/741917761200-afaa6e5d

And that's buying new. Depends on the "life" of the car though, but making a petrol car last a long time, is kinda fine for the environment. Production churn seems more a problem than general use (electric lights/heating/transportation vs constant waste in the economy).

 

Ah, pic is carbon use in fuel *production*, this one is in fuel *consumption*:

Which is still partially unfair IMO as it does not take into account losses in the electric side. But obviously, not the same. The cars use is much higher.

Oh, only a little bit higher then? So no worries. If you only get an electric car when it's affordable, you'll be helping a little. If you don't get one now? It's not killing the world in comparison (in the grand scheme of things, that 10 metric tons is nothing short term to worry about).

[porina]

15 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Also, do the math on a carbon footprint of the total use of a second hand car.

Random thoughts: let's separate hardware from running impact. If we assume both types of car are similarly costly to produce and recycle, then the difference in carbon will be mainly due to fuel and efficient usage. How is the electricity generated? What's the mix of coal, oil, gas, hydro, solar, wind, nuclear? Options are more limited on combustion engines, but petrol is often a blend of biofuel which could lessen its impact somewhat. Even features like regenerative breaking could be used with either (more hybrid in the liquid fuel sense). Not making a judgement on "best" here, but there are degrees of effectiveness. It isn't black and white (or green).

 

Edit: note the previous post wasn't up when I hit post.

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, porina said:

Random thoughts: let's separate hardware from running impact. If we assume both types of car are similarly costly to produce and recycle, then the difference in carbon will be mainly due to fuel and efficient usage. How is the electricity generated? What's the mix of coal, oil, gas, hydro, solar, wind, nuclear? Options are more limited on combustion engines, but petrol is often a blend of biofuel which could lessen its impact somewhat. Even features like regenerative breaking could be used with either (more hybrid in the liquid fuel sense). Not making a judgement on "best" here, but there are degrees of effectiveness. It isn't black and white (or green).

 

Edit: note the previous post wasn't up when I hit post.

Don't make assumptions. If separating to consider, then reintegrate to conclude.

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

-Snip-

I thought you was talking about it the other way around, as in you were saying the electric was better.

 

As far as the power goes, if I were to own an electric car, I pay extra for 100% renewable power, I use a fair amount of electric due to running folding@home 24/7 so I pay extra for that green stuff.

 

But I agree, one thing that many don't take into account though is congestion charges here in London and soon other large cities too, they charge you based on your emission. There's more to being environmentally friendly that pure greenhouse emissions, such as localised air quality.

[porina]

Just now, TechyBen said:

Don't make assumptions. If separating to consider, then reintegrate to conclude.

Separation was to make it easier to think through. Not suggesting either should be ignored over the other, and I certainly wasn't attempting to reach a conclusion. Also I will only take it as far as assumption, as to work out detail like indicated in your previous post is not a trivial exercise.

[TechyBen]

Just now, GOTSpectrum said:

I thought you was talking about it the other way around, as in you were saying the electric was better.

 

As far as the power goes, if I were to own an electric car, I pay extra for 100% renewable power, I use a fair amount of electric due to running folding@home 24/7 so I pay extra for that green stuff.

 

But I agree, one thing that many don't take into account though is congestion charges here in London and soon other large cities too, they charge you based on your emission. There's more to being environmentally friendly that pure greenhouse emissions, such as localised air quality.

That's the trick in getting someone to learn. I said neither was better, but that you'd (or any reader) might be surprised to see the reality.

 

As Porina said, the fuel production actually makes a difference. Strange thing is, biofuels might take up MORE carbon footprint to produce (unlike they assume they don't). It depends on the fertilizer/land use and how it's produced. AFAIK biofuel is used due to supply vs demand needs, not eco friendly needs.

[dalekphalm]

Something to keep in mind: biofuels still pollute carbon. They are just made from plants (corn is a big one) so they can be considered renewable. 
 

Also when talking about carbon emissions over the lifetime of a vehicle, it highly depends on your grid source. But even with a dirty grid primarily using coal, it’ll still be greener over 10 years. 
 

And on top of that, you can buy used EV’s (or used Hybrids). 
 

In the US you can even buy a Prius battery kit for around $1000-$1500 and swap a battery yourself with only a few tools and basic skill. Go buy a used Prius with a dead battery for like $4000-$5000. Full EV batteries cost more of course, but EV batteries last a lot longer than people think. 

[GOTSpectrum]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

but EV batteries last a lot longer than people think. 

It really depends on cooling, the leaf with passive battery pack cooling have EVs a bad rep. With a good BMS and thermal control battery lifespan can be multiplied a few times. Turning 3-5 years into 10-15 years. Especially when vehicles like Tesla's purposefully have larger battery capacity than can be used to make the degradation less noticeable over time.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Oh, only a little bit higher then? So no worries. If you only get an electric car when it's affordable, you'll be helping a little. If you don't get one now? It's not killing the world in comparison (in the grand scheme of things, that 10 metric tons is nothing short term to worry about).

None of that factors in the cost saving from health factors as the cities will have cleaner air quality. It's not always about how much but also where and how easily you can treat or capture the emissions.

 

Not everyone can tow a green house emissions treatment trailer 

[dalekphalm]

@leadeater now if only every SUV in America had one of those

[porina]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Not everyone can tow a green house emissions treatment trailer 

Check out the tomatoes per mile on that!

[TechyBen]

17 minutes ago, leadeater said:

None of that factors in the cost saving from health factors as the cities will have cleaner air quality. It's not always about how much but also where and how easily you can treat or capture the emissions.

 

Not everyone can tow a green house emissions treatment trailer 

Kinda. Our town has a power plant right there in it... so not much for "cleaner" air. Though yeah, power plant fumes vs car exhaust is still cleaner I guess.

Unintended consequences and all that. I would say it's helping. But other than drastic changes, won't have drastic effects.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Something to keep in mind: biofuels still pollute carbon. They are just made from plants (corn is a big one) so they can be considered renewable. 
 

Also when talking about carbon emissions over the lifetime of a vehicle, it highly depends on your grid source. But even with a dirty grid primarily using coal, it’ll still be greener over 10 years. 
 

And on top of that, you can buy used EV’s (or used Hybrids). 
 

In the US you can even buy a Prius battery kit for around $1000-$1500 and swap a battery yourself with only a few tools and basic skill. Go buy a used Prius with a dead battery for like $4000-$5000. Full EV batteries cost more of course, but EV batteries last a lot longer than people think. 

but isnt theoretically the carbon net zero since the plants got the carbon by taking it out of the air 

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

but isnt theoretically the carbon net zero since the plants got the carbon by taking it out of the air 

But most farms use fertilisers and fuels that are not carbon neutral to produce the plans. So that, although the plan material is directly, the production overall isn't. Not to mention the power that is used during the production either. So theoretically, yes, in practice, no. 

[ManyCoresGuy]

I would love to buy a tesla but i have read many horror stories of their after sales support. Wait times for maintenance take months and god forbid you get into a minor fender bender. You will wait for almost a year for a replacement part. I really want Tesla to succeed but looking at they way they are operating, i don't think it will be sustainable in the long term. 

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, ManyCoresGuy said:

I would love to buy a tesla but i have read many horror stories of their after sales support. Wait times for maintenance take months and god forbid you get into a minor fender bender. You will wait for almost a year for a replacement part. I really want Tesla to succeed but looking at they way they are operating, i don't think it will be sustainable in the long term. 

Honestly, I kinda agree. But many of these issues are caused by the need to use every part for complete vehicles to get profit. Once they are making a profit they will be able to produce more replacement parts hopefully and that will in turn ease many of the after sales issues.

[ManyCoresGuy]

1 minute ago, GOTSpectrum said:

Honestly, I kinda agree. But many of these issues are caused by the need to use every part for complete vehicles to get profit. Once they are making a profit they will be able to produce more replacement parts hopefully and that will in turn ease many of the after sales issues.

Only problem is that they have been in this predicament since the day they released the model s.  At this point, they really need to embrace the aftermarket. You can't treat a car like a iPhone, it just doesn't work in the long run.