Windows 10 November 2019 Update - Here is everything you need to know - OUT NOW!

[vanished]

5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

That's not always possible though, where I work for example we still have CNC Mills and Robots running on Windows 95 machines because the software they rely on will literally only work on Windows 95. The company who manufactures the machines has an upgrade solution (to Windows XP) but they want over £10,000 per machine which for a machine that is over 20 years old is scandalous.

 

Luckily the same company is also very good at providing spares should any parts die. A few weeks back they had to replace a motherboard on the Mill because it died and the company sent a replacement board within 48 hours. Considering they're straight up retail computer parts I have no idea where they get them from.

That's really the worst case scenario, yeah.  When you are dealing with an entirely software solution, you always have a pick of good options and nothing really besides time and effort holds you back, but what about when you are tied to some big hardware item and at the mercy of the maker for software?  Ideally you would just go with someone else who's actually keeping things up to date, but what if there isn't any option? And regardless, with big equipment like that, that's obviously impractical and economically unfeasible.

 

Obviously a few reasons why you would want to stay up to date if possible though in a situation like this are:

1. Security
2. Serviceability - how many experts are there in such old hardware and software anymore?
3. (Maybe the biggest one) finding parts.  You said yourself, you don't know where they get them from, and I feel the same.  Thankfully for you they've managed to do so thus far but one day they will run out and then what?

The best hope is probably for someone to reverse engineer the drivers or whatever and open source it so it can be ported to all platforms and kept up to date.  If the company is too lazy to do it, someone else has to take up the slack to save these machines from their otherwise inevitable extinction.

[Bacon soup]

That time of year where we play quake on linux coz windows has to boot several times

[TheVillageIdiot]

7 minutes ago, Bacon soup said:

That time of year where we play quake on linux coz windows has to boot several times

Man they are everywhere

 

But ? That has basically summed up windows this year . Plus the fact of it breaks itself every month. Sometimes more than once.

[suicidalfranco]

11 hours ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

Man they are everywhere

 

But ? That has basically summed up windows this year . Plus the fact of it breaks itself every month. Sometimes more than once.

> be me

> get to office

> turn on work laptop

> windows 10 completing update

> go get some coffee

> come back to the desk

> still at 50%

> start playing games on phones while anyone from the administration as yet to arrive

> update finally completes

> finally on the desktop

> double click VMware

> nothing happens

> wait a minute

> still nothing

> double click again

> Nothing happens again

> start googling "VMware not launching"

> on another tab checking VMWare forums

>  try reinstalling vmware

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> try installing older version

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> go back to latest version

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> finally found thread on VMWare forums with someone with same issue

> redirects to a winaero thread

> suggests to uninstall latest cumulative updates

> go trough all process

> long loading time

> already 10AM

> go for another coffee

> come back

> prompts to reboot

> reboot

> double click on VMWare

> VMWare finally opens

> now to justify what ive done for the past two hours

 

 

 

[Arika]

12 hours ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

Plus the fact of it breaks itself every month. Sometimes more than once

What the hell are you people doing to your computers? Literally had zero problems with Windows 10 in the last 3 years I've used it

[atxcyclist]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

What the hell are you people doing to your computers? Literally had zero problems with Windows 10 in the last 3 years I've used it

I've had several Win 10 version and even regular updates brick computers between my home and office. In fact, just had an update break a $3500 a year building modelling software install that I have no idea how I will fix. Well, I will have to install the software and hope that does it, but might have to re-install the OS since it's a kernel library problem. Windows 10 updates are awful, worst part of the OS for sure. I can only hope this next big one doesn't trash more stuff.

[Arika]

10 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I've had several Win 10 version and even regular updates brick computers between my home and office. In fact, just had an update break a $3500 a year building modelling software install that I have no idea how I will fix. Well, I will have to install the software and hope that does it, but might have to re-install the OS since it's a kernel library problem. Windows 10 version updates are awful, worst part of the OS for sure.

interesting. i have 5 computers at home all for different uses, all running window 10 and not a single one has had a failed update, bricked itself or "broken" anything at any time

[atxcyclist]

Just now, Arika S said:

interesting. i have 5 computers at home all for different uses, all running window 10 and not a single one has had a failed update, bricked itself or "broken" anything at any time

I'm not sure why some of the problems happen, but good backup strategies have kept me from actually losing anything. Usually it's just software (mostly games) not working after an update, but I did have once secondary machine brick during a "Creators Update" or whatever they called it. At least it gave me an opportunity to clean some old software out, if there's a silver lining there.

[TheVillageIdiot]

15 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

> be me

> get to office

> turn on work laptop

> windows 10 completing update

> go get some coffee

> come back to the desk

> still at 50%

> start playing games on phones while anyone from the administration as yet to arrive

> update finally completes

> finally on the desktop

> double click VMware

> nothing happens

> wait a minute

> still nothing

> double click again

> Nothing happens again

> start googling "VMware not launching"

> on another tab checking VMWare forums

>  try reinstalling vmware

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> try installing older version

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> go back to latest version

> reboot laptop

> still nothing

> finally found thread on VMWare forums with someone with same issue

> redirects to a winaero thread

> suggests to uninstall latest cumulative updates

> go trough all process

> long loading time

> already 10AM

> go for another coffee

> come back

> prompts to reboot

> reboot

> double click on VMWare

> VMWare finally opens

> now to justify what ive done for the past two hours

 

 

 

My answer was to lock out updates. I harden windows against windows. I do have to rebuild and retweak it every couple of months or as long as I dare to go without the security updates.

[GoodBytes]

Microsoft officially announced the release of the update!

 

How to get it? It is being released in waved as always, but if you check Windows Update, you should see the following:

 

This is the new changes of Windows Update from current release, which allows you to still get driver and security updates, but you choose when to embark into the new version release (up until your current version support expires)

 

So, just hit the "Download and install now" link to get the November Update.

 

[JuztBe]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:30 AM, suicidalfranco said:

> be me

> get to office

> turn on work laptop

> windows 10 completing update

...

 

 

 

For the first time in ever I had opposite experience. Windows updates saved me a lot of trouble.

>Update windows 

>Reboot

>Install Hyper-V role

>reboot

>BSOD

>safe mode doesn't work

>removing role via CMD doesn't work

>panic

>pressed on "restore from restore point". Even though I never made any restore point

>finds an automatically created restore point just before updates.

>thank you windows updates.

[Master Disaster]

37 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft officially announced the release of the update!

 

How to get it? It is being released in waved as always, but if you check Windows Update, you should see the following:

 

This is the new changes of Windows Update from current release, which allows you to still get driver and security updates, but you choose when to embark into the new version release (up until your current version support expires)

 

So, just hit the "Download and install now" link to get the November Update.

 

Or you can always download Microsofts Media Creation Tool and force the update through that.

[NumLock21]

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Or you can always download Microsofts Media Creation Tool and force the update through that.

Manual update is entire iso. Windows update it just the add ons for 1909. I heard there isn't anything major to 1909 so running through Windows update, should make the download a lot smaller in size.

 

[Kilrah]

The half-yearly updates are always a complete reinstall whether you do them manually with the update tool or from the Windows update panel.

[GoodBytes]

10 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The half-yearly updates are always a complete reinstall whether you do them manually with the update tool or from the Windows update panel.

It is shame that isn't the case for the hundred of million of people using Windows 10.

[RejZoR]

This update feels pretty minor. But hey, I won't complain, I like updating things.

[mr moose]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:51 AM, Arika S said:

interesting. i have 5 computers at home all for different uses, all running window 10 and not a single one has had a failed update, bricked itself or "broken" anything at any time

I manage 16.  same experience.  it's funny that all the people on these forums who complain about updates breaking their system are also the ones who do everything they can to interfere with the update system and prevent it from doing it's job.

 

 

[Master Disaster]

29 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I manage 16.  same experience.  it's funny that all the people on these forums who complain about updates breaking their system are also the ones who do everything they can to interfere with the update system and prevent it from doing it's job.

 

 

I only have 1 PC & 1 Laptop but the worst I've ever encountered was my system feeling sluggish after an update and that was only ever once. My current install on my PC is 2 years old, its been through 3 major updates and still feels fine. I have never reinstalled my laptop since the day I bought it when I wiped it to remove all the HP bloatware.

[porina]

7 hours ago, Kilrah said:

The half-yearly updates are always a complete reinstall whether you do them manually with the update tool or from the Windows update panel.

I've had weird Win10 problems here and there. Some are fixed by these "major" twice yearly updates, some require a full clean reinstall. So I don't think we can say these are a full reinstall.

28 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I manage 16.  same experience.  it's funny that all the people on these forums who complain about updates breaking their system are also the ones who do everything they can to interfere with the update system and prevent it from doing it's job.

I have 10+ systems at home, and generally speaking haven't had major problems with the update process in Win10 within its intent (I still can't tolerate reboots other than when I explicitly allow). The only minor oddity I've seen is sometimes there is one update that says it can't install, and hitting retry doesn't fix it. Just goes away the next month.

[LAwLz]

50 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I manage 16.  same experience.  it's funny that all the people on these forums who complain about updates breaking their system are also the ones who do everything they can to interfere with the update system and prevent it from doing it's job.

I think it's even more funny how some users refuse to acknowledge issues, or do their hardest to not admit that they are caused by Microsoft.

• "It must be a driver issue. Not Microsoft's fault."
• "It must be the user doing something they shouldn't. Not Microsoft's fault!".
• "Microsoft changing settings the user has explicitly changed themselves? You should probably just let Microsoft decide how you use your computer. Stop trying to use your computer as you want rather than how Microsoft wants".
• "Microsoft admits that an update deleted files for users? Nahh it didn't happen to me so it must have been a minor issue and people complaining are just whiny entitled people".
• "There is undeniable proof that an update screwed up? Just say Windows runs on a lot of hardware so you shouldn't expect it to work every time. It's your fault for using a certain combination of hardware that Microsoft didn't account for".
• "Users in the regular ring are getting pre-release updates installed? It's the users fault for clicking 'check for updates' and not realizing that Microsoft interprets that as 'I want to be a tester for unreleased software' because clearly that is completely logical and anyone who has issues because of it only have themselves to blame, not Microsoft".

 

On my computer I've had a few issues with Windows updates. All of them have been acknowledged as bugs or design choices from Microsoft themselves. For example settings being reset after updates (still remember how GoodBytes called me a liar about that), or the DHCP service not working, and programs being automatically uninstalled such as AnyConnect and CCleaner.

 

But other computers I've seen have had other issues. For example the start menu breaking seemed to be a fairly common issue in the early days of Windows 10.

 

 

I am getting pretty sick and tired of Microsoft apologists always deflecting and never acknowledging that sometimes the updates break things for people, and the blame should be on Microsoft, not the user. Why do you people even think that Microsoft decided to make this a "polish update" focusing on fixing bugs and issues, rather than push out more and more features like they have done in the past? Why do you think previous updates had to be pulled and re-released several times? Why do you think this update has been delayed?

Because they have finally (hopefully) learned that they can't just keep running on this strict and short deadline for feature updates on a OS like Windows. It's way too much spaghetti code and hacks in the background, that not even Microsoft themselves understand these days.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I am getting pretty sick and tired of Microsoft apologists always deflecting and never acknowledging that sometimes the updates break things for people, and the blame should be on Microsoft, not the user.

There is the flip side to that as well, I myself get pretty sick of people constantly bitching about Windows Updates and making out it's so much worse than what it actually is. There is a middle ground between these two hyperbole, problems have happened and to a larger degree than should be but systems are not on a global scale in significant numbers being knocked out and destroyed by Windows Updates.

 

And to be honest it's currently not like its actually more a problem on Windows 10 than is was on previous editions of Windows in the past and also now. I think one of the big difference now is the greater numbers of computers that have been pushed in to regular patching cycles than before.

 

At least on the server side I've had more cases in the last year to two years of having to remediate or action preemptive measures for Server 2008 (R1, yea vista ) than I have for Server 2016. Problem here is that Server 2016 while being Windows 10 era server edition is not on the same OS build and also doesn't get the new feature pushes like Windows 10 does.

 

The biggest Windows Update issue I've had most recently was the change Microsoft did to requiring SHA-2 signing for updates and all the pre-req updates combined with the problems with AV products and circular and conflicting dependencies, it was a giant bloody mess. Also shout out to Symantec for posting an initial resolution article and hotfix while at the same time removing support for Server 2008 (R1) before Microsoft EoL the OS leaving us with zero option to ever get updates again, but luckily later Microsoft updated their KB saying further investigation found there was never actually any issues so removed the SEP AV block on it's updates resulting in a total and complete waste of my time.

 

Lesser shout out to the August 2019 update that broke VB6/VBA/VBScipt and Microsoft releasing the hotfix as an option update, uh what? Don't release a security update aka mandatory that breaks a lot of things then make the fix optional, a lot of automated patching systems won't just pick that up because.... it's optional 

Spoiler

After installing this update, applications that were made using Visual Basic 6 (VB6), macros using Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), and scripts or apps using Visual Basic Scripting Edition (VBScript) may stop responding and you may receive an “invalid procedure call§ error.

Microsoft is presently investigating this issue and will provide an update when available.

 

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, porina said:

I've had weird Win10 problems here and there. Some are fixed by these "major" twice yearly updates, some require a full clean reinstall. So I don't think we can say these are a full reinstall.

It's a complete resintall of the system files from a Windows image file (what I was after, i.e. you don't save on download as @GoodBytes said), but it keeps all apps and the user profile as well as system config changes so as things causing issues are usually in one of those these won't be solved.

 

Never had update issues either, good dozen of systems and many updates (my main system has never been reinstalled since I installed my NVMe SSD in summer 2017, so 4 major updates).

 

Update issues are probably a % or 2, but obviously those people will complain loudly enough to make it seem like way more.

And they happen with all systems, see the Mac OS Catalina mess a month ago, Ubuntu notoriously always has problems as well, so much that many people recommend to always reinstall from scratch (actually my own install won't update to 1910, no way to even know why)...

[LAwLz]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And to be honest it's currently not like its actually more a problem on Windows 10 than is was on previous editions of Windows in the past and also now. I think one of the big difference now is the greater numbers of computers that have been pushed in to regular patching cycles than before.

I don't believe that is true. I am fairly certain that there are more issues now than in previous versions of Windows, for example Windows 7.

The reason being that previous versions did not have rolling releases where developers are pushed to create multiple large versions every year and release them at any cost (how it used to be in Windows 10).

 

If Microsoft released two service packs a year for Windows 7 then I am pretty sure it would have had a lot more issues than it did. But they didn't.

[leadeater]

20 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't believe that is true. I am fairly certain that there are more issues now than in previous versions of Windows, for example Windows 7.

The reason being that previous versions did not have rolling releases where developers are pushed to create multiple large versions every year and release them at any cost (how it used to be in Windows 10).

 

If Microsoft released two service packs a year for Windows 7 then I am pretty sure it would have had a lot more issues than it did. But they didn't.

There were still plenty of issues with Windows 7, but what I'm really pointing to is the difference between "This broke Windows" and "This was annoying and inconvenient", there's certainly an increase in the second however the number of updates that have actually been acknowledged as capable of resulting in a non functioning systems or deleting files (even then only if you redirected folders) isn't any higher.

 

Another factor is loss of control over the update process, not just more computers being subject to it.

 

And there is still the proportionality problem. Get a room of 100 people and ask them a question and you get 1 person respond/affected. Get a room of 1000 people and ask them a question and you get 10 people respond/affected. Get a room of 10000 people and ask them a question and you get 100 people respond/affected. Get a room of 10000000 people and ask them a question and you get 100000 people respond/affected. Proportionally these are all the same but depending on what it is, say people who have had a Windows 10 update cause their system not to boot, may be considered different levels or seriousness. Also along that the issue will be more apparent and more publicized with a larger  population group than a smaller one while still being proportionally the same.

 

So the way I look at it if there is say 200 million computers with Windows 10 (MS claims more but w/e) and a million people (0.5%) have had a problem with a specific update that is too many, we are highly likely to hear about it, but at the same time statistically we cannot make the inference that this update is "bricking Windows 10" or such similar statements.

[LAwLz]

23 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There were still plenty of issues with Windows 7, but what I'm really pointing to is the difference between "This broke Windows" and "This was annoying and inconvenient", there's certainly an increase in the second however the number of updates that have actually been acknowledged as capable of resulting in a non functioning systems or deleting files (even then only if you redirected folders) isn't any higher.

Do you have any statistics on that or is it just your general experience?

I don't have any statistics but I have seen a very big increase in issues people report and that I experience. That doesn't mean much because it might just be coincidence but I think it makes sense that as Windows gets more and more features, and the more updates gets released, the more bugs/issues will arise.

 

Windows 10 is significantly more complex and full of features than Windows 7, and on top of that there are many more updates released for it too (and I'm talking large updates, not just minor patches). It seems counter-intuitive to me that Windows 10 wouldn't have more issues than Windows 7.