doordash pockets tips meant for employees

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

I find it hilariously inaccurate to compare profit from investments to the, comparatively infinitesimally small, amount that a delivery driver makes in tips. I was lucky enough most nights to pay back the $20.00 I took out of the till to get gas, and maybe go home with $5.00. Ending up in the same place the next night because by the end of the night I had burnt most of that gas. That was pretty common across the entire city from what I learned speaking to the other drivers at all three of our stores in that city.

 

And I was the fastest driver of any of the Domino's in our city, based on delivery times which are recorded by the computer system used at the time (when the order was placed, made, put in the oven, when it left the store and when I came back).

 

I'm sorry but no. That absolutely should not be taxed. If you want tax revenue take it from companies employing people via "payroll companies" so they can continue claiming to be a small business. Or maybe lower the amount of money paid to our idiotic politicians.

 

Government absolutely should not be entitled to a percentage every single time money changes hands between people, not every single transaction.

Again, whether they should be able tax income is another debate entirely.

 

But as @poochyena said, any money coming in, unless a gift, is taxable as income. And even with gifts there are limits to how much is non-taxable -- and tips are absolutely not gifts. They're given because it is what has become the social convention for certain professions. Not to mention that delivery tips is just one instance of tipping -- waiters make significant amounts of money in tips. Really, tipping can amount to a significant amount of money in any industry where tipping is the norm and where people don't feel like they're separated enough to feel comfortable not tipping (aka delivery drivers).

[ARikozuM]

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

No, its not

They're promising you'll make $10, but they're using the customer's tip in the calculation. My tip does not, and should not, be a factor for the payout rate of Doordash. We have to end the system that allows servers and drivers to make less than minimum wage while tipped. Consumers should never subsidize large businesses unless we can start deducting the tips we give out on our taxes. 

Spoiler

And no, you can't deduct it from your taxes. 

 

[poochyena]

30 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Oh please, are you seriously arguing over the literal meaning of taking money? If this is the level of discussion I see no point in continuing.

don't claim someone is stealing if they are not actually stealing

 

13 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

My tip does not, and should not, be a factor for the payout rate of Doordash.

But it does. The system is put in place to compensate drivers for when customers don't tip so they don't miss out on income. Its basically doordash guaranteeing you get a tip of a minimum amount.

 

15 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

We have to end the system that allows servers and drivers to make less than minimum wage while tipped

Already done. No hourly/waged worker makes less than the federal min wage of $7.25/hour unless their employer is committing a crime.

[Thaldor]

33 minutes ago, poochyena said:

"Doordash promises 10$ minimum wage including tips and it's ok"

This is the part of the tipping culture I (as Finnish, we don't tip, if we tip we either expect something extra or you have done extremely good job) can't understand at all. Like Doordash promises 10$ salary to you, except if you get tipped when they don't pay you that 10$ promised salary but only the 10$ - the tip part, like the tip that is for you for extra good job (don't give me that BS tip should be given from good service, if you give me bad service because I don't tip, I go to the next place that offers the same service as you because I had bad service experience in your place, good service should be included in the bill) is deducted from your salary because logic?

Like I said Finnish culture (like all of the Nordic cultures) lacks tipping almost completely. We tip the bartender at a nightclub because when doing so they usually skip few people waiting for service at the bar to serve us who paid extra to get to the good side. We tip at restaurant if they offer something extra, like second serving of fries for free (this is extremely rare). Even in these cases tipping is very rare and totally not expected, actually no one ever expects tipping because they are paid this thing called "salary" by their employer because that's is something called "working for someone" (also again the same point, no one forces us to be your customer and if you give us bad service, we can always choose to go to the next place, it's not like you could offer something that no one else can offer).

[poochyena]

23 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Like Doordash promises 10$ salary to you

wrong

They promise you will get $10 or more. They do not promise to pay you $10.

24 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

can't understand at all.

I don't understand tipping culture either. I don't give a tip to anyone unless they did something amazing.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

any fee charged to a merchant is passed onto the consumer.

By that logic, if I choose to buy an Arizona Ice Tea at the store and its normally 99 cents, if I pay cash I pay 99 cents but if I pay card they charge me more? Where the fuck do you live that they do that? The ONLY time I have seen a merchant charge more for a product using plastic is GAS. Like I said, MOST merchants eat the cost. Does Walmart charge me more for using a card? NO the dont. Now if I go down to the local ice cream shop (Family owned) they make you purchase at least $5 worth of stuff if using card. That is the norm. 

 

Besides gas stations if any merchant charged more for something where someone uses a card they will go the FUCK out of business. Its like the local restaurant not accepting cards. Guess what? They lost lots a business. So they started accepting cards but with a minimum purchase of $10. 

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

By that logic, if I choose to buy an Arizona Ice Tea at the store and its normally 99 cents, if I pay cash I pay 99 cents but if I pay card they charge me more?

most store bake the ~3% fee into the cost since most people use a card. the cost would be ~3% lower if cards didn't have a fee

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Where the fuck do you live that they do that?

I do it. You pay with card you pay extra. Online I just hide it into shipping costs, and in person I just tell the person its an extra 3% for card.

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Besides gas stations if any merchant charged more for something where someone uses a card they will go the FUCK out of business.

5 years of business and still doing well. I have literally never had someone refuse a purchase after learning of the 3% card fee.

[79wjd]

 

48 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Already done. No hourly/waged worker makes less than the federal min wage of $7.25/hour unless their employer is committing a crime.

Ish. Waiters have a lower minimum wage that is compensated for with tips.

 

 

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Consumers should never subsidize large businesses unless we can start deducting the tips we give out on our taxes. 

  Reveal hidden contents

And no, you can't deduct it from your taxes. 

 

I agree that tips shouldn't be subsidizing pay, but if tips didn't exist and employers were forced to pay more, then prices would go up and consumers would still end up subsidizing (paying) employees.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

I just tell the person its an extra 3% for card.

Never been to a place that does that. Would not purchase stuff at a place that does that. Amazon, Meijer, Walmart, etc do not do this type of stupidity. So thats where Ill continue shopping. 

[Drak3]

Just now, 79wjd said:

Waiters have a lower minimum wage that is compensated for with tips.

Federal law is that tipped wage + tips must, at minimum, equate to non tipped wage or that the employer compensates the difference.

 

At the end of the day, if the waiter is not making the non tipped minimum or more, the employer is engaging in a criminal activity.

[poochyena]

3 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Ish. Waiters have a lower minimum wage that is compensated for with tips.

The take home pay they get is always $7.25 or higher unless the employer is committing a crime. The employer just simply isn't required to pay the $7.25/hour himself.

 

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Would not purchase stuff at a place that does that.

you'd rather pay 3% extra for using card AND cash rather then having the option to pay the normal price with cash?
Do you not shop at any business that passes sales tax onto the customer either? Its the same logic.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

don't claim someone is stealing if they are not actually stealing

don't claim someone isn't stealing when they are

[poochyena]

Just now, Sauron said:

don't claim someone isn't stealing when they are

no money is being taken away from the driver. The customers gives a tip and the driver gets the full tip.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

no money is being taken away from the driver.

Yes it is

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

The customers gives a tip and the driver gets the full tip.

In exchange for a lower salary. Either they're stealing the tip or they're stealing their salary, a distinction without a difference. At this point I'm repeating myself. This is painfully self evident, if you can't see it I really don't know how to help you.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

no money is being taken away from the driver. The customers gives a tip and the driver gets the full tip.

this comes down to if you believe doordash when they say they are only providing the extra money out of the goodness of their heart. if you look at waiters the restaurant is required by law to pay the workers minimum wage tips or not so its pretty open and shut that they are indeed taking money away from their employees because there is a hard requirement that they pay them that much anyways. while with doordash its more grey because theres no hard requirement ie the law that they have to be paid that much but i argue that there is a soft requirement for them to get drivers interested in working for them. nobody would work for doordash if there is a good possibility that they only get 1 dollar for their delivery if the customer doesnt pay tips so its clear to me that doordash isnt doing that out of the good of their heart so i believe that no matter how they try to spin it they are indeed taking their employee's tips. 

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

this comes down to if you believe doordash when they say they are only providing the extra money out of the goodness of their heart. if you look at waiters the restaurant is required by law to pay the workers minimum wage tips or not so its pretty open and shut that they are indeed taking money away from their employees because there is a hard requirement that they pay them that much anyways. while with doordash its more grey because theres no hard requirement ie the law that they have to be paid that much but i argue that there is a soft requirement for them to get drivers interested in working for them. nobody would work for doordash if there is a good possibility that they only get 1 dollar for their delivery if the customer doesnt pay so its clear to me that doordash isnt doing that out of the good of their heart so i believe that no matter how they try to spin it they are indeed taking their employee's tips. 

My issue is that they're subsidizing themselves through the actual customers at an obscenely low rate. We might as well not tip at all if it only lowers the amount that DD will contribute. 

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

My issue is that they're subsidizing themselves through the actual customers at an obscenely low rate. We might as well not tip at all if it only lowers the amount that DD will contribute. 

thats a really good point 1 dollar base pay is insane. if they made it like 6 or 8 dollars base pay maybe it will be more understandable 

[poochyena]

54 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yes it is

How? The money goes from the customer, through doordash app/server, and then to the driver. doordash doesn't take the money.

55 minutes ago, Sauron said:

In exchange for a lower salary.

The driver is not getting a lower salary, they are getting exactly what they are promised.
Do they receive the full tip? YES

Do they receive the full amount of money promised? YES
What was promised to them that they are not getting?

27 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

this comes down to if you believe doordash when they say they are only providing the extra money out of the goodness of their heart.

???
They do it because its what they promised in their contract, not out of the goodness of the heart.

28 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

nobody would work for doordash if there is a good possibility that they only get 1 dollar for their delivery if the customer doesnt pay tips

If the customer doesn't tip, they pay the full minimum that was promised to them.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

How? The money goes from the customer, through doordash app/server, and then to the driver. doordash doesn't take the money.

The driver is not getting a lower salary, they are getting exactly what they are promised.
Do they receive the full tip? YES

Do they receive the full amount of money promised? YES
What was promised to them that they are not getting?

???
They do it because its what they promised in their contract, not out of the goodness of the heart.

If the customer doesn't tip, they pay the full minimum that was promised to them.

and they are saying they have it in their contract out of the good of their heart and i argue that no if they dont have that nobody will work for them. and you can argue semantics all you want but the end result is the driver is getting less money. im not saying that the contract isnt legal im saying that its bullshit

[Thaldor]

The whole thing becomes asshattery when you think that DD "promises" 10$/delivery whether or not the driver gets tipped out of the goodwill of the customer. That 10$/delivery is 100% surely counted into the prices because no one would be that stupid to leave that huge possibility to run unprofitable business. Now that the driver gets tipped (out of the goodwill of the customer for one reason or another) that tip just raises the profits of the DD and that is probably one huge bulletpoint in their presentation to possible investors because US and tipping culture. I would also guess that the system is made so that those who get tipped less get less deliveries because once again profits and if not tips the DD pays more to the driver.

That 10$/delivery is also kind of one reason why this thing stinks a lot. That 9$ "tip" part with US tip percentages makes that probably (out of the ass) 70-90% of deliveries are done with that 10$/delivery pay, because to get more the customer should order with something around +45$ (20% tip) worth of stuff in the delivery (comparing straight to Finnish pizza prices that would be around 5 pizzas (8,5€/pizza and around the same prize in USD)). And this doesn't even matter because the 10$/delivery is already counted into prices and even when the driver gets more than 9$ worth of tips in one delivery, the DD made 9$ worth more profit.

[Video Beagle]

On 8/2/2019 at 4:50 PM, Trik'Stari said:

 

Seriously, never tip your drivers on a credit card

I'll take it further...don't tip waiters etc on credit card, especially chain places...they pool their tips and spread it out, so if you're tipping because the particular person did a great job, leave cash for them.

[Donut417]

10 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

leave cash for them.

 Many people dont carry cash. Im one of them. 

[Video Beagle]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

 Many people dont carry cash. Im one of them. 

If you wore pants, you could carry cash.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

If you wore pants, you could carry cash.

I do wear pants. I just dont carry cash. Its a hassle to go to the bank to get cash out. 

[Video Beagle]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

I do wear pants. I just dont carry cash. Its a hassle to go to the bank to get cash out. 

My mistake...I was assuming your sig was a statement of your life, not just a general comment