doordash pockets tips meant for employees

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Video Beagle said:

My mistake...I was assuming your sig was a statement of your life, not just a general comment

Thats more of a Walmart thing if you know what I mean. 

[Anomnomnomaly]

Tipping isn't really a big deal here in the UK because we actually pay staff a better wage... OK, so that might be minimum wage in many places... But given that in the 'great stalwart of freedom called the USA' they pay less than half of minimum wage and staff have to rely on generous tippers to simply try to exist.... But it's still 200% better than the bullshit that happens in the USA.

 

There are also some countries/companies that will be offended if you even try to tip. Iceland for example takes it as a huge insult because they pride themselves on paying staff a living wage.

 

Trying to force paying customers to subsidise extortionate business practices disgusts me... and I would NEVER add a tip to one of these apps (In fact, I'd never even use one of these apps because I'm actually capable of calling my local takeaway and placing an order myself). If you tip some one, give them cash in person so the greedy fuckwits cannot steal it... But above all, pressure businesses into paying their staff a decent wage so they aren't forced to depend on the generosity (charity) of others to simply exist.  When you try out a new place, specifically ask the staff if they are paid above or below minimum wage... if they are paid below... make a point of telling the owner/manager that you find the practice disgusting and you won't use them again until they pay their staff better. It's simple.. don't support greedy, extortionate businesses.

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Tipping isn't really a big deal here in the UK because we actually pay staff a better wage... OK, so that might be minimum wage in many places... But given that in the 'great stalwart of freedom called the USA' they pay less than half of minimum wage and staff have to rely on generous tippers to simply try to exist.... But it's still 200% better than the bullshit that happens in the USA.

 

There are also some countries/companies that will be offended if you even try to tip. Iceland for example takes it as a huge insult because they pride themselves on paying staff a living wage.

 

Trying to force paying customers to subsidise extortionate business practices disgusts me... and I would NEVER add a tip to one of these apps (In fact, I'd never even use one of these apps because I'm actually capable of calling my local takeaway and placing an order myself). If you tip some one, give them cash in person so the greedy fuckwits cannot steal it... But above all, pressure businesses into paying their staff a decent wage so they aren't forced to depend on the generosity (charity) of others to simply exist.  When you try out a new place, specifically ask the staff if they are paid above or below minimum wage... if they are paid below... make a point of telling the owner/manager that you find the practice disgusting and you won't use them again until they pay their staff better. It's simple.. don't support greedy, extortionate businesses.

Tipping is less charity and more a societal norm in the US (at least when it comes to waiters in restaurants -- delivery drivers tend to get stiffed).

 

And yes, tipping really shouldn't be what it is and businesses should pay their staff more, but let's not pretend for even a second that employees aren't being subsidized by paying customers in non tipping countries -- they are, the prices of goods are just higher. So instead of a customer directly subsidizing through tips, they do it indirectly through higher costs. It's still better for employees since they have a more reliable income, but at the end of the day, the businesses are equally "greedy".

[ARikozuM]

13 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Tipping is less charity and more a societal norm in the US (at least when it comes to waiters in restaurants -- delivery drivers tend to get stiffed).

 

And yes, tipping really shouldn't be what it is and businesses should pay their staff more, but let's not pretend for even a second that employees aren't being subsidized by paying customers in non tipping countries -- they are, the prices of goods are just higher. So instead of a customer directly subsidizing through tips, they do it indirectly through higher costs. It's still better for employees since they have a more reliable income, but at the end of the day, the businesses are equally "greedy".

I would rather the cost of a cheeseburger be $8 than I would $5+tips. Especially considering how much most restaurants make. 

[spartaman64]

10 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I would rather the cost of a cheeseburger be $8 than I would $5+tips. Especially considering how much most restaurants make. 

the original purpose is to give employees incentive to provide better service but if the employer just takes the tips for themselves it doesnt help with that

[ARikozuM]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

the original purpose is to give employees incentive to provide better service but if the employer just takes the tips for themselves it doesnt help with that

And it indentures employees to take whatever crap they get from customers (which I do not agree with). A better incentive is to provide a better wage, from the employer, and also allow tips, straight from customer to employee.

If you get tipped and don't make minimum wage, your employer has to pay at least to minimum wage. All of that "tip" was basically null. If they do meet the minimum barely, the employer just cut his expenses. 

[Donut417]

14 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

support greedy, extortionate businesses.

Keep in mind most restaurants in the US are independently owned and operated. Meaning they don’t have billions of dollars backing them. They have low margins so making they pay more just puts them out of business. Raising prices is not the answer as people will stop coming due to that. 

 

Dont  get me wrong. I understand where you are coming from and agree. But over in the UK and in Europe you all are used to pay exorbitant prices. Here in the US we are used to cheap goods and services. 

 

Im waiting for the tariffs to raise the prices. Then I’m going to watch some people flip out. 

[Anomnomnomaly]

27 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Keep in mind most restaurants in the US are independently owned and operated. Meaning they don’t have billions of dollars backing them. They have low margins so making they pay more just puts them out of business. Raising prices is not the answer as people will stop coming due to that. 

 

Dont  get me wrong. I understand where you are coming from and agree. But over in the UK and in Europe you all are used to pay exorbitant prices. Here in the US we are used to cheap goods and services. 

 

Im waiting for the tariffs to raise the prices. Then I’m going to watch some people flip out. 

It's not a question of paying exorbitant prices (eating out here is actually very reasonable), it's a cultural issue... Customers think cheap equals good, businesses think they have to be cheap to exist. But whilst that may be true in the past... at least here in the UK we have grown out of that mythos and we value quality more than we do the price. I went out for lunch the other day... for 3 of us just drinks and a meal (no starters, no dessert, no alcohol) cost just over £60... and it wasn't a very good meal... with coffee it was just over £70. I felt ripped off, but I know that I can get better food at other places for less... We tried some where new... won't go back there again.

 

Last new place we tried... loved it. food, beer & coffee for 4 people was around £90... the place had their own micro brewery too... Only complaint was the coffees were almost cold when they arrived, so they took them off the bill.

When I was last in Canada... prices were about 10-20% cheaper than I was used to in the UK and the quality wasn't that different to me.

 

But smaller independent businesses normally have better food and you can expect to pay 10% more than a larger chain... and I'm fine with that, I'd rather support local businesses than big chains that take money out of the local/national economy and funnel it overseas, and avoid paying their fair share of taxes on income.

[79wjd]

 

31 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

and avoid paying their fair share of taxes on income.

I hate to break it to you, but there's a reason why small businesses love cash.

[ARikozuM]

3 hours ago, 79wjd said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but there's a reason why small businesses love cash.

One more reason flat or regressive taxes don't work. 

[79wjd]

39 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

One more reason flat or regressive taxes don't work. 

How exactly does that demonstrate a flat tax not being workable?

[Thaldor]

2 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

How exactly does that demonstrate a flat tax not being workable?

Because it taxes smaller businesses harder than bigger ones meaning the smaller ones need to grab whatever they can however they can.

20% flat tax doesn't sound that bad, but for a company that might have just and just some profits that 20% is a lot while some company like Google can just laugh at that 20% because it hardly even touches their vault (they probably don't even pay taxes because they have money for "creative accounting").

Progressive taxation instead makes it so that everybody (who pay taxes) hurt as much. That small business hardly making any profits pays less taxes because even small sums can be felt in their pockets while big companies that make huge profits also start to feel the taxation on their pockets.

 

Also don't say "they wouldn't pay taxes if we would tax them more", because they already don't pay taxes in full anywhere.

[ARikozuM]

14 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

How exactly does that demonstrate a flat tax not being workable?

Businesses that make less are paying the same amount of tax as large businesses as a %, but they don't have the same leeway to put as much in hiding or investment deductions that large business can. People who can pay more should pay more. 

[Trik'Stari]

11 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

I'll take it further...don't tip waiters etc on credit card, especially chain places...they pool their tips and spread it out, so if you're tipping because the particular person did a great job, leave cash for them.

Agreed.

 

The state I live in, forced tip sharing or pooling is illegal. Management cannot take a cut and neither can other employees, at least it can't be "policy".

[79wjd]

59 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Because it taxes smaller businesses harder than bigger ones meaning the smaller ones need to grab whatever they can however they can.

20% flat tax doesn't sound that bad, but for a company that might have just and just some profits that 20% is a lot while some company like Google can just laugh at that 20% because it hardly even touches their vault (they probably don't even pay taxes because they have money for "creative accounting").

Progressive taxation instead makes it so that everybody (who pay taxes) hurt as much. That small business hardly making any profits pays less taxes because even small sums can be felt in their pockets while big companies that make huge profits also start to feel the taxation on their pockets.

 

Also don't say "they wouldn't pay taxes if we would tax them more", because they already don't pay taxes in full anywhere.

 

51 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Businesses that make less are paying the same amount of tax as large businesses as a %, but they don't have the same leeway to put as much in hiding or investment deductions that large business can. People who can pay more should pay more. 

Small businesses being hurt more by taxes is less the problem compared to the main problem, which is economies of scale -- which hiring a larger company more doesn't really solve. It's also the same individuals who are against a flat tax that also want to raise tax rates, making the problem worse. The larger companies still won't be "affected" while the smaller ones profits shrink even more.

 

Besides, high corporate tax rates really don't work particularity well against large multinational organizations that can shift their tax burden to countries or regions with lower rates.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, 79wjd said:

 

Small businesses being hurt more by taxes is less the problem compared to the main problem, which is economies of scale -- which hiring a larger company more doesn't really solve. It's also the same individuals who are against a flat tax that also want to raise tax rates, making the problem worse. The larger companies still won't be "affected" while the smaller ones profits shrink even more.

Which is why I would lower tax rates for what covers the majority of small business and raise it only at the higher ends. 

1 minute ago, 79wjd said:

Besides, high corporate tax rates really don't work particularity well against large multinational organizations that can shift their tax burden to countries or regions with lower rates.

Which is why I believe it should be based on the profit produced within the country. You want to remove your money? Go ahead, you still owe those taxes. Your HQ is in Ireland? Not my problem. 

[IntMD]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:49 PM, ARikozuM said:

Which is why I believe it should be based on the profit produced within the country. You want to remove your money? Go ahead, you still owe those taxes. Your HQ is in Ireland? Not my problem. 

That isn't overly realistic to do on profit in a specific country though and would just crush smaller businesses in admin, accounting and other services, even if the tax rate was set lower for them. I do agree however, that it would be good to have something along those lines in theory.

 

You could do a turnover tax (at a much lower rate than a tax on profits, for obvious reasons) in each country, but that also has big drawbacks for admin/accounting etc.