I had given up on AMD… until today - Ryzen 9 3900X & Ryzen 7 3700X Review

[revilo951]

Is there a typo on the chart @ 4:41? X470 - PCIe 2.0? Shouldn't that be PCIe 3.0?

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

13 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Also @GabenJr why are no reviewers commenting on the audio levels of the X570 chipset fan? Can you load some some PCIe SSDs, and see how much it screams please?

The fan seems to be okay in terms of sound, they don't run as fast as those small motherboard fans of yesteryear.

Not sure if it was TTL (watched a few too many reviews today), but at least 1 reviewer mentioned that the sound from any GPU fan will drown out the chipset fan's sound.

 

I'd love to know if you can unplug those fans without the BIOS throwing a fit though.  I'd probably remove the chipset fan and design and 3D-print a shroud so I can replace that tiny fan with a bottom-mounted 120mm Noctua.  That should solve the fan life problems that you usually have with those small things.  On most motherboards the placement allows me to use a shroud in combination with a dual-slot GPU without worries.  My SoundBlaster should fit in one of the other x16 slots as well without interfering.

[Guest]

I think we both know the title isn't quite correct here since Zen launched. I'll keep your secret don't worry.

 

[EDIT]

 

BTW really good job with the graphics in the editing. Top quality. 

[Tankian the Man]

Hi!

So a spanish website spotted a problem with x570 boards and with Nvidia cards, while testing the new ryzen chips.
Did you guys came across with any of this @LinusTech or @GabenJr?!
I've translated some of the website to help you out a little, but you guys have tools to make a proper test.

Translation from google:

"Issues with the launch - AGESA 1003 code and WHEA PCI Express errors on NVIDIA GeForce cards

First I start by emphasizing all the time invested to obtain the following results. It has taken me three whole days trying different configurations for this analysis, so let's start:

The problems that have been shown with the two processors that I have tried, the Ryzen 9 3900X and Ryzen 7 3700X (which are press samples) are the following:

-Problems with code AGESA 1002 NPRP (BIOS for press)

-Problems with PCI Express and NVIDIA video cards (WHEA error)

 

These are all the plates that were tested:

-GIGABYTE X570 AORUS XTREME
-GIGABYTE X570 AORUS MASTER
-MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
-GIGABYTE X470 AORUS GAMING 7 WIFI

 

The whole story ...
During the first three hours of testing of the AMD Ryzen 9 3900X processor, using the X570 AORUS XTREME board, I noticed the problem when PCMark 8 did not pass the first test (there are a total of ten tests). I realized that WHEA error (Windows Hardware Error Architecture) came out in HWInfo64 (so use this software for PC telemetry).
From there I also decided to take more attention to HWInfo64 and I also checked that the BOOST frequencies of the processor had problems, since it did not get to "boostear" all its cores to the maximum that it should, which is 4.6 GHz. It reached 4.5 GHz at 4.575 GHz in a couple of cores and the rest of the cores at 4.3-4.4 GHz ... Mind you, we used press chipsets, like most current chipsets.

Image of the Cores not boosting

 

X570 AORUS MASTER BIOS N11 NRPR, como también en BIOS F5c y F5e

I thought it was weird, so I decided to write to my contact with GIGABYTE USA (Matthew Hurwitz, I thank him for all the time he has dedicated to find a solution) and I showed him the WHEA (PCI Express) errors, as well as the strange behavior of the boost frequencies of the 3900X.

Image of Errors in the WHEA

I'm going ahead, this is not a GIGABYTE problem (it was also corroborated on the MSI board that I tried, we have capture in GODLIKE and we found out that another media obtained the same results with the ASUS board).

At the time we did not know what was going on and tried to escalate the problem to GIGABYTE Taiwan. Until I received some response from Taiwan (it was still afternoon hours, in Taiwan, early morning) dismantle the board, I tried the MASTER, same results with the last BIOS available.

 

Test, disassemble, test, disassemble ...

Midnight GBT HQ gives us news (Matt tells me) and according to their tests, the new AGESA code, including the NPRP BIOS (BIOS for press) replicated our results in mono-core frequencies, BUT, the original BIOS (AGESA 1002, no the code entered NPRP) worked well turbo boost.

With this information, I decided to flash BIOS, the first BIOS released for the X570 AORUS MASTER board and surprise, the boost frequencies worked as they should, even yawning the processor at 4.65 GHz. The problem of WHEA errors in the PCI Express continued, so I continued pressing and trying if the problem was maybe the chipset driver.

 

On the X570 AORUS MASTER I tried the following BIOS:

    -F4 (no problems, PBO does not work well)
    -N11 (shows problems with turbo frequencies)
    -F5c (no longer available on the GIGABYTE website, shows problems with turbo frequencies)
    -F5e (supposedly revised AGESA code 1003AB, but follow the boost frequency problems)

 

For our review, we ended up using the X570 AORUS XTREME (F1 BIOS) which is the equivalent of the F4 on the X570 AORUS MASTER.
Image of x570 boosting to 4.65GHZ

X570 AORUS XTREME BIOS F1 (Boost works well, can see in capture)

Image of x570

X570 AORUS XTREME BIOS F1 Errors WHEA PCI Express (just 5 in the morning of July 5 we could start preparing machine for review after having found a BIOS that works)

 

From there I tried to test an X470 board since the first problem was "solved" (Precision Boost Overdrive does not work with AGESA 1002, but factory performance has no problems) as a board with X470 chipset, not having PCI Express 4.0 , may not launch WHEA errors in PCI Express.

We obtained blue screens in Windows 10 when doing a new installation of Windows (you can not imagine how many times we have installed Windows in the last three days) on the X470 and Windows 1903 board. We were able to mitigate the blue screens by first installing a 2700X, installing a chipset driver and then change to the 3900X.

The boost frequencies on the X470 AORUS Gaming 7 WIFI works well (AGESA 1002, BIOS F41a) with the 3900X we have sample, but still, WHEA errors from the most current NVIDIA driver (we use a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti).

We test another additional driver, same results. Why do we use a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti? To remove limiter bottleneck in 1080p.

 

Let's continue ... After several days of testing, I concluded that the reasons for PCI Express (WHEA) errors can be two:

    -Diver from NVIDIA
    -Driver PCI Express

 

If it is NVIDIA driver (since all tech websites and medias use for tests with processors) we hope there is a solution soon. The other reason may be that there is some problem with the PCI Express driver for the Ryzen processors with GeForce cards, BUT, I think it does not go this way ... (although there is some possibility, eventually we will know).

The PCI Express (WHEA) errors do not appear with the Radeon VII (which also tests) or with Vega 56 (someone tested with that card and passed me the information corroborating). Unfortunately, for benchmark issues of game processors and to avoid processor bottlenecks, we can not use any of those alternatives (in addition, our data base uses GeForce RTX 2080 Ti).

Well, we had access to press drivers (chipset), press BIOS and we got the same results. Even GBT Taiwan were kind enough to provide us with the most current chipset drivers, but without any change (to solve the WHEA with NVIDIA cards). Neither the new chipset drivers solve the problems of factory boost frequencies (this is the AGESA code problem).

As I mentioned before, it's not GIGABYTE's problem. Luckily in our press kit, we got an MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE, so we also took the time to try GODLIKE, with the BIOS that came installed (an old one) with the other Ryzen 7 3700X processor that came in the kit As we tested the 3900X trying to fix the WHEA problem and it turned out that the processor boosted no more than 4.3 GHz except for a couple of cores (it should be 4.4 GHz), with the NPRP BIOS (for press) as well as the BIOS most current of its web page (AGESA 1003AB). "

 

 

And it continues in the website...

 

Source:

https://www.xanxogaming.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-review-en-espanol-destronando-al-intel-core-i9-9900k/?fbclid=IwAR1vZ0kj3B0i8J4yUMhkp9j9F2rk_Wuv8lizCj-vTEhY3MIjRuKdzhG9QT8#Problemas_con_el_lanzamiento_Codigo_AGESA_1003_y_errores_WHEA_PCI_Express_en_tarjetas_NVIDIA_GeForce

[FezBoy]

Here's the link for the "ryzen master" software if anyone else was looking for it. https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master

[Bitter]

I came to watch Linus drop a new processor, instead I saw Intel drop the ball.

[RasmusDC]

5 hours ago, Bitter said:

I came to watch Linus drop a new processor, instead I saw Intel drop the ball.

i´m not sure what i saw.

 

Yes Linus speaks volumes of this CPU, and when i see all productivity benchmarks it wins, so did the old ryzen when it had more cores then the intel counterpart...

 

I think gaming is a bit more finicky, especially if i follow Steve on Gamers Nexus benchmarks, it looses and is on par... yes it wins in some elements.

 

i also need to see some high res benchmarks, all i see on linus are 1080p high, seen tendencies of high FPS favoring AMD, when 250+ fps, but i really don´t care, but if 4k is a different story, then that is important for me.

 

is it a win.. yeah, but is it enough to upgrade a 8700k or a 9600k, i really don´t think so...

 

also the motherboards scare me, the only one with passive cooling is extremely expensive, and i have always stayed away from smaller than 80mm fans, these small fans can be piercing in noise level.

[Bitter]

36 minutes ago, RasmusDC said:

also the motherboards scare me, the only one with passive cooling is extremely expensive, and i have always stayed away from smaller than 80mm fans, these small fans can be piercing in noise level.

Active cooling chipsets isn't a big deal to me, I'm used to 'ye olden days' where that was normal for a performance board. What worries me is how small the fans are and how deeply integrated to the coolers they are. I'd rather have seen some standard size fans atop heat sinks. I'm sure boards like that will roll out, I hope they will.

 

My 'drop the ball' comment was more in the vein of Intel/AMD being back on a level playing field vs Intel dominating AMD in performance. It's hard to justify Intel pricing now, but we'll have to see where overclocking goes and what Intel can hit back with.

[RejZoR]

It's cool how most reviewers used X570 AORUS MASTER. Until I checked Geizhals and it said it's a 420€ motherboard. Freaking 420€. I get it lower end pricepoint got bumped up coz of PCIe 4.0 and stuff, but paying for motherboard almost as much as the highest performing consumer AMD CPU costs is a bit insane. And shit doesn't stop, motherboards go up to 700€. WHAT.

 

And I've checked some of 200-250€ motherboards with X570 and a lot o them are absolutely stupid design. 4 fan headers. FOUR. Of which one is for the AiO pump. What am I suppose to hook up to that in a case that has 3 fans in the front, 1 in the rear and 2 on the top of which 1 is the AiO fan. Which means I need to plug the pump somewhere too. And it's a silence oriented 100€ case, so nothing stupid fancy expensive, a very budget case. That's 7 required fan headers. Bunch of Y cables here we come again... Motherboard makers really need to stop being so cheap and lazy and reserving fan headers for freaking 700€ boards.

[Loote]

1 hour ago, RasmusDC said:

i also need to see some high res benchmarks, all i see on linus are 1080p high, seen tendencies of high FPS favoring AMD, when 250+ fps, but i really don´t care, but if 4k is a different story, then that is important for me.

Usually a CPU can calcuate x amount of frames, without significant difference between resolutions, whereas GPU can produce y amount of frames, but on double resolution you'll need nearly double the power(and half the frames), thus lower resolutions are useful for measuring CPU power and higher resolutions for GPU power.

 

Yeah, this launch is nice, I hope motherboard manufacturers won't screw this up by putting low quality fans on the chipsets and that there're proper safety measures(simple sensor telling if it's not overheating).

[Quadriplegic]

Hmmm...

Most of people seem pretty satisfied with the launch and here I am, cursing AMD's incompetence to provide high clock speed and great IPC at the same time. 
Not chips have close to zero overclocking headroom, but currently they can't even reach their advertised boost clocks, nor will software updates help much due to extreme heat density per derbauer's findings. 

[SolarNova]

On 7/7/2019 at 2:00 PM, GabenJr said:

AMD is launching ALL of their third-gen Ryzen CPUs today – We’ve got our hands on two of the best to see if they really can take the fight to Intel’s doorstep: Gaming.

 

~~~SNIP~~

Sorry but i cant fully agree with your conclusion on this.

 

I've seen GamersNexus & Der8auer reviews also, and Intel still handily beats AMD for pure gaming.

Add on top of that that its possible to OC a 9900k to a all core OC of 5.1ghz, and AMD best was an all core OC of just 4.3ghz, which with the IPC/clock for clock performance being so close just extends that lead for Intel.

 

I do agree that this is a great performance by AMD standards, BUT its not the overwhelming win i think most were hoping for.

 

In the UK you can buy a 9900k for roughly £470, that's a few quid cheaper than the offers I'm seeing for the AMD 3900x currently. So prices are currently more or less the same, the included cooler being irrelevant on AMD's side as any1 buying a CPU like this most certainly has , or should have, a after market solution.

 

So while i do hope this causes some more price competition, which is always good for consumers, its a shame AMD could not outright take the crown for once.

 

And ofc lets not even start with their terrible RX 5700XT.

 

 

I was really hoping to see AMD take down Intel a peg or two, i really was, i cant stand seeing the same company at the top of anything as it always, without fail, results in the consumer being fked over.

 

Still, its the best AMD has done in over a decade so i suppose that's better than nothing.

[Valentyn]

19 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

The fan seems to be okay in terms of sound, they don't run as fast as those small motherboard fans of yesteryear.

Not sure if it was TTL (watched a few too many reviews today), but at least 1 reviewer mentioned that the sound from any GPU fan will drown out the chipset fan's sound.

 

I'd love to know if you can unplug those fans without the BIOS throwing a fit though.  I'd probably remove the chipset fan and design and 3D-print a shroud so I can replace that tiny fan with a bottom-mounted 120mm Noctua.  That should solve the fan life problems that you usually have with those small things.  On most motherboards the placement allows me to use a shroud in combination with a dual-slot GPU without worries.  My SoundBlaster should fit in one of the other x16 slots as well without interfering.

 

TTL mentioned it's not too loud. That's not much to go on though.

 

Considering my HDDs, and GPU coil whine are the loudest in my system, I'm worried the little fan might be loud. I plan on shoving some PCIe 4 SSDs in there.

Plus the reliability is always a concern. I'd like my system to last another 4-5 years; and considering getting the Gigabyte Extreme, for peace of mind on that front, along with no extra noise.
Then again the bloody thing is double the price of the Aorus Master, and pushing $1000 in my area.

[pritch]

I slightly agree with SolarNova, I think AMD are finally releasing competitive chips at a given pricepoint, rather than delivering any sort of deathblow. As Linus said, that competition is great in itself anyway, for us. The R5 is probably the most competitive? I'm a gamer so I guess that's my perspective, but looking at the Gamers Nexus benches it seems AMD is now killing it with the 3900 for those whose choice of software for work benefits from extra threads.

 

This is tempered by the boards for me, I really don't like the small proprietary coolers either and that would make me think twice, also I've seen newish X470 boards fail on a couple of people now so even though that doesn't necessarily prove / mean anything, I have to admit it does affect my confidence. I wouldn't even be looking at 570 until it's bedded in though, so I guess I can wait and watch.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

17 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Plus the reliability is always a concern. I'd like my system to last another 4-5 years; and considering getting the Gigabyte Extreme, for peace of mind on that front, along with no extra noise.
Then again the bloody thing is double the price of the Aorus Master, and pushing $1000 in my area.

Same here, except I'd like to keep the next one for 7-10 years.  I already pretty much have my mind set on the 3950X, so the Aorus Extreme does make a little more sense. 

I know that MSI has a 0 RPM mode on their X570 chipset fans (perhaps others do the same thing), but even then I don't trust it.  If it fails years down the line and you can't get a replacement anymore, you're basically screwed even if your chipset survived the fan failure.

 

 

[Valentyn]

18 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Same here, except I'd like to keep the next one for 7-10 years.  I already pretty much have my mind set on the 3950X, so the Aorus Extreme does make a little more sense. 

I know that MSI has a 0 RPM mode on their X570 chipset fans (perhaps others do the same thing), but even then I don't trust it.  If it fails years down the line and you can't get a replacement anymore, you're basically screwed even if your chipset survived the fan failure.

 

 

That's exactly my issue. My system will become a hand me down, or be sold later on; and the last thing I want is a dead fun under myself, or after I sell it.

Just a god damn shame the Extreme is so absurdly expensive. 

 

Edit: Oh great. Seems it's now gone?!
Was just on pre-order, and now listed as not longer going to be available.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

18 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

the last thing I want is a dead fun

Yeah, it's not fan when your fun dies. 

 

At my local store it's still on preorder.  Not that it matters to me right now, I've got to wait for the CPU to become available anyway.   Gives me a good opportunity to let others figure out the quirks, oddities and issues of the new platform.

[Valentyn]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

Yeah, it's not fan when your fun dies. 

 

At my local store it's still on preorder.  Not like it matters all that much right now, I've got to wait for the CPU to become available anyway.   Gives me a good opportunity to let others figure out the quirks, oddities and issues of the new platform.

Very true haha!

Interestingly, the board is gone from all the major retailers in my area. Very odd indeed. 

I'm still debating if the extra €300 for it would be worth it for the reliability, and peace of mind over 4-5+ years of use. 

Plus the 10Gb ethernet over the 2.5Gb of the Aorus Master is nice.

Would be nice to tap into that in my office on my workstation for this little connection I recently got.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

Would be nice to tap into that in my office on my workstation for this little connection I recently got.

20?  Meh, at home I have 30 Meg ... oh.

 

Dang, that's fast! 

[Valentyn]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

20?  Meh, at home I have 30 Meg ... oh.

 

Dang, that's fast! 

Found a German retailer that still lists the Xrteme for pre-order, and €200 cheaper than the UK folks had it for.

Sadly all the darn CPUs, and nice RAM kits are out of sale, and they don't even list the PCIe 4 SSDs.

 

They're silly on RAM prices! 3600Mhz CL16, 16GB for €260 lol....

Ah come on! How hard is it to get my upgrade itch scratched!

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

13 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Found a German retailer that still lists the Xrteme for pre-order, and €200 cheaper than the UK folks had it for.

Alternate in the UK still seems to sell it for £699, it dispatches in 5 days.  So it seems like they're expecting delivery of the first batch still

 

https://www.alternate.co.uk/AORUS/X570-AORUS-XTREME-Mainboard/html/product/1555223?

 

Caseking in Germany has it on order without a delivery date, which is rather unusual for them. 

scan.co.uk has all the X570 boards on their site except for the Aorus Extreme.

 

Weird.  I'm getting a "there was an issue and we recalled the ones that were already sent out" vibe.   

[Valentyn]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

Alternate in the UK still seems to sell it for £699, it dispatches in 5 days.  So it seems like they're expecting delivery of the first batch still

 

https://www.alternate.co.uk/AORUS/X570-AORUS-XTREME-Mainboard/html/product/1555223?

Sadly not heard of the, and can't find that they ship to Ireland. They're a complete unknown compared to the reputable places.

Just checked into it, seems you need to use a parcel forwarding company to get their stuff to Ireland. Hmm, RMAs would be a pain, and service ratings seem naf.

Hmm, no one I know in the UK that deals with PC stuff have ever heard of them, let alone used. Odd place.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

5 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Hmm, no one I know in the UK that deals with PC stuff have ever heard of them, let alone used. Odd place

I buy almost all my parts at their Belgian branch (which has a large showroom 5 miles from me).  Only issue I ever had was an RMA that took 4 months, but that was entirely BeQuiet's fault. 

 

By the way, looks like they have plenty of fast DDR4 in stock still. 

[Valentyn]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

I buy almost all my parts at their Belgian branch (which has a large showroom 5 miles from me).  Only issue I ever had was an RMA that took 4 months, but that was entirely BeQuiet's fault. 

 

Jaysus that sounds rough. OcUK, Scan, and Amazon have all been fantastic to me in Ireland. Also Caseking in Germany.

Ireland is horrible for PC parts, and retailers. Wish I had a place to go to like other countries.

[TheNaitsyrk]

I'm a little disappointed. It's previous generation all over again, except slightly better.

 

Still not as good at gaming even though the die is 2x smaller. Clocks still low at 4.3 at the maximum if OCed and OCing hurts performance often. Games that love high clocks is a no no and 9900K still smokes it.

 

I really wanted this CPU to properly match 9900K in gaming, but it's not quite there yet.