This is the PC killer (Haha JK) - The Xbox Scarlett

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

I call bullshit on all high-res high FPS claims. The Xbox One X was a 1080p60 console. This might be doing 4k60. Certainly impressive but not 8k120. 

Nobody from Xbox or Microsoft claimed it would do 8K120. Nor even 4K120. That was all users here making incorrect assumptions.

 

They simply said the console would do 4K gaming, and would do 120 FPS. And would be 8K compatible (Note: that does not mean rendering a game at 8K). They didn't say it would do all of these things at the same time.

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

People forget just how optimized console titles are. I wouldn't be suprised to see 4k 60fps

Oh I expect 4K60 on multiple titles. I could even see 4K120 on some lower graphics titles too (Eg: Pixelart style indie games like Gungeon or something).

[Reytime]

4K + 120fps with checkerboard rendering and low/medium graphic settings probably. You can't tell me these console GPUs outperform a 2080ti in SLI. Heh.

[Master Disaster]

11 minutes ago, Reytime said:

4K + 120fps with checkerboard rendering and low/medium graphic settings probably. You can't tell me these console GPUs outperform a 2080ti in SLI. Heh.

Exactly what I said earlier in the thread.

[Totallycasual]

I don't understand why they bother making such outrageous claims on the FPS front, the vast majority of household TV's are 60hz and most of them are probably still 1920x1080, why the fuck not just say that you'll get rock solid 60 fps to match your TV's refresh rate whether it's 1920x1080 or 4k.  Sony mentioned some of the same crap, crazy high FPS and support for 8k... who the fuck has 8k?

[Jito463]

6 hours ago, Medicate said:

It's the same for the console. Nowhere are claims for gaming at 8k, only support for the resolution. 

Fair enough, my response was mainly a reaction based on your response to @chen57, whose post implied gaming performance.

[leadeater]

10 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Speculation in the grapevine is that the next iteration of RDNA will be like Zen 2 was to Zen; that Navi introduces a lot of new things that brings things a good leap forward but with a ton of areas that can be worked on that there wasn't time to do in the timeframe given. Of course that's very early speculation and there may be nothing to it. It might be that raytracing is taking up all their time to develop so there is nothing else new when we get there. 

 

I do agree that we're unlikely to see a massive chip. Navi, while being on 7nm, seems to add a lot of silicon despite only being a 40 CU design meaning there isn't any gained area for CUs compared to a 36 CU Polaris on 14nm. So I think they might do more CUs than 40 but not a whole lot more (if at all). We should also keep in mind that there will be raytracing hardware on there taking die space. I also assume Zen 2 is a bigger core than Jaguar. It all has to fit on one die unless they do a chiplet design which I don't think they will.

Console usage of Navi/RDNA is going to be very interesting. There is a lot of backward compatibility in Navi 10 and if you don't update to utilize the new architecture it actually falls back to acting like GCN. Consoles and their games will be fully optimized for the new architecture, PC games won't for ages sadly, so looking there will give us early information on what we can expect to come.

 

Have a watch of the recent GN video/interview on RDNA, has a lot of really good information in it.

 

10 hours ago, Trixanity said:

I also assume Zen 2 is a bigger core than Jaguar. It all has to fit on one die unless they do a chiplet design which I don't think they will.

Eh? I don't think there is a Zen 2 design that exists that is not chiplet. For a console it doesn't matter if total area is increased as it'll be all BGA and custom layout, only cooling will put a layout constraint on them. The consoles could be APU with the GPU in the I/O die or a dGPU, the move to SSD also saves a lot of physical space allowing for different layouts etc. Personally I'm putting my bet on dGPU and overall an even more PC like design so no shared GDDR system ram.

 

Chiplet and not using an APU will also make it easier for Sony/Microsoft to release updated models like they did with the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X too.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, Newenthusiast said:

I don't understand why they bother making such outrageous claims on the FPS front, the vast majority of household TV's are 60hz and most of them are probably still 1920x1080, why the fuck not just say that you'll get rock solid 60 fps to match your TV's refresh rate whether it's 1920x1080 or 4k.  Sony mentioned some of the same crap, crazy high FPS and support for 8k... who the fuck has 8k?

You have to remember that console generations typically last a long time. 8K TV's are just hitting the market now, but in 5 years, most new TV's might well be 8K - we simply cannot say.

 

If they can easily add 8K support (Which, realistically, is ridiculously easy - just add HDMI 2.1 as the interface (which, let's be honest, they were likely going to do regardless), and then ensure the OS video driver supports 8K as an acceptable resolution), why would they not? In terms of mentioning it, it's 100% marketing. But who cares? It's not a lie, and anyone thinking this will play AAA games at 8K60 (or even 120) is making their own problems, since Microsoft never claimed that.

 

In terms of TV's - sure most are probably still 1080p, but the vast majority of new TV's sold are 4K. Hell, it's difficult to find a non-4K TV of any quality anymore.

 

Lastly, they aren't going to target 1080p60. They might target 1080p120 (some TV's definitely support 120hz proper). More likely, they'll target 2160p60 ("4K60") (with varations depending on the game). Games that they want to push the graphics on, may end up either 4K30 or may end up some lower (but higher than 1080p) resolution upscaled to 4K60.

 

Games that aren't pushing the envelope will likely target native 4K60.

[Derangel]

For everyone freaking out over the frame rate and resolution claims: The consoles are obviously using HDMI 2.1. That means resolutions up to 8K at 60hz or 4K at 120hz (anyone that claims they said 8k at 120hz is either lying or has nfc what they're talking about as there is no display spec that supports anything that high). HDMI 2.1 also supports VRR. None of this is about "these aren't mainstream right now". It's about "the spec supports it and high refresh rate TVs are coming out and will keep coming out". Generations are 5+ years long. They can't plan for what only exists in most people's homes now, they have to plan for the future. 4K HDR was only in super expensive TVs when the PS4 Pro came out, now its all over the place. CRTs were still the norm when the Xbox 360 came out, yet it had support for high-def content. The PS3 had a HDMI port, despite it not being the most common thing in the world at the time. Consoles are not designed based solely on the year they release, its all about how long they're going to be around.

 

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Console usage of Navi/RDNA is going to be very interesting. There is a lot of backward compatibility in Navi 10 and if you don't update to utilize the new architecture it actually falls back to acting like GCN. Consoles and their games will be fully optimized for the new architecture, PC games won't for ages sadly, so looking there will give us early information on what we can expect to come.

 

Have a watch of the recent GN video/interview on RDNA, has a lot of really good information in it.

 

Eh? I don't think there is a Zen 2 design that exists that is not chiplet. For a console it doesn't matter if total area is increased as it'll be all BGA and custom layout, only cooling will put a layout constraint on them. The consoles could be APU with the GPU in the I/O die or a dGPU, the move to SSD also saves a lot of physical space allowing for different layouts etc. Personally I'm putting my bet on dGPU and overall an even more PC like design so no shared GDDR system ram.

 

Chiplet and not using an APU will also make it easier for Sony/Microsoft to release updated models like they did with the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X too.

Its an APU. MS specifically called it a SoC in their E3 video on Scarlett. Both companies have also called it a custom chip using Zen2 and Navi.

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, Derangel said:

Its an APU. MS specifically called it a SoC in their E3 video on Scarlett. Both companies have also called it a custom chip using Zen2 and Navi.

I do agree, though remember both TR and EPYC are both refereed to as SoCs so surprises are possible. The CPU cores are still going to be chiplet I expect no matter what is done.

 

Edit:

Cooling the chip would be the problem I'm thinking of for not having the CPU cores in chiplet form. Though they could be more the like 65W Ryzen 3000 SKU and a more power optimized Navi design but that would still be a chip above 250W TDP with actual power much higher than that.

[Trixanity]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Console usage of Navi/RDNA is going to be very interesting. There is a lot of backward compatibility in Navi 10 and if you don't update to utilize the new architecture it actually falls back to acting like GCN. Consoles and their games will be fully optimized for the new architecture, PC games won't for ages sadly, so looking there will give us early information on what we can expect to come.

 

Have a watch of the recent GN video/interview on RDNA, has a lot of really good information in it.

 

Eh? I don't think there is a Zen 2 design that exists that is not chiplet. For a console it doesn't matter if total area is increased as it'll be all BGA and custom layout, only cooling will put a layout constraint on them. The consoles could be APU with the GPU in the I/O die or a dGPU, the move to SSD also saves a lot of physical space allowing for different layouts etc. Personally I'm putting my bet on dGPU and overall an even more PC like design so no shared GDDR system ram.

 

Chiplet and not using an APU will also make it easier for Sony/Microsoft to release updated models like they did with the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X too.

I did see that video. I have looked at multiple sources in fact. As an enthusiast it saddens me to see the legacy burden hampering their ability to go crazy with the design (previously I had hoped for a more novel design). However I obviously understand the reasoning. Of course it remains to be seen what can be done with optimization. Right now it looks okay but completely unimpressive.

 

I have no reason to believe that Renoir will be chiplet nor do I have one that their custom work will be. So there will be non-chiplet Zen 2. Perhaps AMD will prove me wrong. Although if they will, I'm assuming it'll be in the console form factor, not mobile. I hope they will.

 

Just for reference the Scorpio Engine in Xbox One X is a 359 mm^2 monolithic APU. I think taping out and producing multiple dies might be a cost constraint for a console project but perhaps it evens out with an otherwise larger monolithic approach. It'll certainly be interesting to see how they intend to accomplish their design goals.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Just for reference the Scorpio Engine in Xbox One X is a 359 mm^2 monolithic APU.

That's probably a smaller area than what a chiplet design would end up using, AM4 socket itself is 1600mm² (40x40) and the used package area for Ryzen 3000 looked rather large. That APU is pretty big though, bigger than most high end dGPU dies. It's something like 1/3 CPU and 2/3 GPU looking at Polaris die size, not that this is actually an accurate indicator.

 

Zen 2 chiplet is ~70mm², Navi 10 shown at E3 is 251mm² so probably would be looking at similar size for a mono APU again (14nm I/O is around 100mm² but would be smaller in 7nm form likely with un-required extras cut), maybe bigger. Board area size would be a big win for a mono die.

 

My main worry about a monolithic APU design is power, performance reduction to control it. Xbox One X and PS4 Pro use around 140W-160W and this upcoming design even though 7nm should be more than that. Designing an SoC that will always be fighting power controls between the CPU and GPU to manage thermals with lower clock targets is just disappointing to me. Sony and Microsoft have complete design control of everything, layout for dedicated chips isn't a problem and it's not that complicated in a fixed hardware system with only exactly what it needs. If it really was that expensive design wise it would be near impossible to beat console performance for less using all dedicated parts and boards that sell in much lower volumes than consoles do.

 

APUs in consoles to me is an unnecessary design constraint that doesn't need to be there. I very much hope they aren't trying to make the consoles much smaller than they are and the APU is being used to achieve that which is why they are doing it that way, yet another device falling victim to everything must be thin and light insanity.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

That's probably a smaller area than what a chiplet design would end up using, AM4 socket itself is 1600mm² (40x40) and the used package area for Ryzen 3000 looked rather large. That APU is pretty big though, bigger than most high end dGPU dies. It's something like 1/3 CPU and 2/3 GPU looking at Polaris die size, not that this is actually an accurate indicator.

 

Zen 2 chiplet is ~70mm², Navi 10 shown at E3 is 251mm² so probably would be looking at similar size for a mono APU again (14nm I/O is around 100mm² but would be smaller in 7nm form likely with un-required extras cut), maybe bigger. Board area size would be a big win for a mono die.

 

My main worry about a monolithic APU design is power, performance reduction to control it. Xbox One X and PS4 Pro use around 140W-160W and this upcoming design even though 7nm should be more than that. Designing an SoC that will always be fighting power controls between the CPU and GPU to manage thermals with lower clock targets is just disappointing to me. Sony and Microsoft have complete design control of everything, layout for dedicated chips isn't a problem and it's not that complicated in a fixed hardware system with only exactly what it needs. If it really was that expensive design wise it would be near impossible to beat console performance for less using all dedicated parts and boards that sell in much lower volumes than consoles do.

 

APUs in consoles to me is an unnecessary design constraint that doesn't need to be there. I very much hope they aren't trying to make the consoles much smaller than they are and the APU is being used to achieve that which is why they are doing it that way, yet another device falling victim to everything must be thin and light insanity.

I think with raytracing hardware that a monolithic die will hit 400+ mm^2. That's assuming that CPU, GPU and IO are all one die. My reason for believing that is as you say 74 mm^2 for a Zen2 piece, 251 mm^2 for GPU and I have to imagine something like raytracing might tack on an extra 30-50 mm^2 so make that upwards of 300 mm^2 for the GPU total. I'm not sure on the IOD. I was under the impression that it doesn't respond well to die shrinks although I haven't looked too much into what that means in a practical sense (diminishing returns in power, performance or area? All of the above?).

 

I should note we don't know the core count for Xbox. Some rumors say 12 but that would require two CCDs in whatever implementation (chiplet or monolithic). However it would also make sense for a custom chip to unchain itself from the rigid approach of CCXs and CCDs that we see on the desktop so I would assume it would be a straight up 'real' 12 core processor without a quarter of it disabled like it would be on the desktop (perhaps some implementation of 3 CCXs on the die?). I don't see a scenario where Microsoft (or Sony for that matter) will be getting off-the-shelf Matisse chiplets in any case unless it suits their needs perfectly.

 

I agree on the power constraints. That's the big issue we see with APUs in general; they share the power budget and often not tuned properly. However I'm not sure what power targets the consoles will have. It may be a non-issue. I'm not sure if they're willing to up the power budget whether or not it'll be dedicated chips (or chiplets) or a monolithic die. I can't imagine them wanting higher than 200W so we may not see the behemoth of a machine we'd like to see. I should note that I don't think that it would be a problem in terms of board space or layout regardless of the approach they take. If there's an issue it would be packaging and/or costs but perhaps I'm overestimating those issues in regards to the needs of a console.

 

I might have missed something in your post so feel free to point out if I did.

[leadeater]

32 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I'm not sure on the IOD. I was under the impression that it doesn't respond well to die shrinks although I haven't looked too much into what that means in a practical sense (diminishing returns in power, performance or area? All of the above?).

That was one of my original thinkings for why I was expecting a chiplet design, nothing actually stops them from doing the required parts on the 7nm process and I think you can actually do wider/larger traces as required. The whole 7nm doesn't mean 7nm thing. Smaller nodes using small traces have higher resistance which is why clocks tend to be expected to go down not up, this increased resistance also effects signaling so things like memory and PCIe.

 

32 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I should note we don't know the core count for Xbox. Some rumors say 12 but that would require two CCDs in whatever implementation (chiplet or monolithic). However it would also make sense for a custom chip to unchain itself from the rigid approach of CCXs and CCDs that we see on the desktop so I would assume it would be a straight up 'real' 12 core processor without a quarter of it disabled like it would be on the desktop (perhaps some implementation of 3 CCXs on the die?). I don't see a scenario where Microsoft (or Sony for that matter) will be getting off-the-shelf Matisse chiplets in any case unless it suits their needs perfectly.

I'm thinking 8 cores due to the cost targets of consoles and that 8 cores is heaps for gaming anyway, Zen 2 is so so so much better than Jaguar. The 3 CCX (12 core) you mention is another configuration I would expect, just slightly less than 2 CCX.

 

32 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I can't imagine them wanting higher than 200W so we may not see the behemoth of a machine we'd like to see.

I'm thinking it'll be around that 200W mark which is still 30%-35% more than current generation. Going up to 250W-280W on a dedicated chips design wouldn't be that much of a problem cooling wise and two cold plates + heat pipes is more effective and you're spreading the heat load. First generation PS3 was 200W power draw during gaming, last revision after all the node shrinks it was at ~75W.

 

32 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I might have missed something in your post so feel free to point out if I did.

Not really, I didn't think about it much or the information already given out. One of those surely it won't be that moments (due to the design constraints), oh it actually is... lame. Using an APU here is just so disappointing, the lost potential makes me sad.

[Jito463]

6 hours ago, Derangel said:

Its an APU. MS specifically called it a SoC in their E3 video on Scarlett.

SoC's are not just APU's, as @leadeater already stated.  The original Ryzen desktop processors are also SoC's.  The chipset offers very little functionality that isn't already handled by the CPU.

[Trixanity]

@leadeater I just looked at the trailer for the console again. If it's representative of the final product it does appear to be a large monolithic die surrounded by GDDR6 chips. Of course it might be a red herring. It's rendered from an angle and everything looks a bit blurry so they're definitely trying to obscure any details.

 

I also heard a snippet from an interview with Phil Spencer. He says they're going for power and what power they can pack in depends on the price point they want to hit. Obviously no details. So there is still room for disappointment with statements that vague.

[The King of the Undead]

why are all the posts on this thread walls of text?

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, will1432 said:

why are all the posts on this thread walls of text?

Lots of people have lots to say - and some people don't know where the return key is  

[The King of the Undead]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Lots of people have lots to say - and some people don't know where the return key is  

it is the same one as enter

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, will1432 said:

why are all the posts on this thread walls of text?

 

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text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. 

[The King of the Undead]

Just now, leadeater said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. Because walls of text are good, we like walls of text. 

you spent way to much time on that didn't you?

[leadeater]

Just now, will1432 said:

you spent way to much time on that didn't you?

Yes and no, copy then hold down ctrl + v. Any amount of time on that is too much though.

[The King of the Undead]

Just now, leadeater said:

Yes and no, copy then hold down ctrl + v. Any amount of time on that is too much though.

toushay

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, will1432 said:

toushay

This hurts me. Deeply.

 

Spoiler

touche

 

[The King of the Undead]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

This hurts me. Deeply.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

touche

 

thank you! do not know how to spell french.