From Garbage can to glorified cheese grater and all for a mere $50K

[The King of the Undead]

1 minute ago, jdubya421 said:

I said 2U server. The form factor is what matters. 

YES A TOWER SERVER IS NOT 2U! it looks like a computer tower not a server.

[JoostinOnline]

The funniest part of the article:

Quote

The Verge decided to do some research

 

[stevieb]

A little late to reply to this, but I do not see how Apple can justify the cost of a basic entry level Xeon workstation chip. 

 

Dell / HP have systems cheaper with the Xeon Silver and Gold platform. 

 

Tye gold platform form allows dual CPU confit and additional PCIe lanes. 

 

I have both HP and Dell systems at work. There is no way Apple can compete with the service levels of HP/Dell in terms of a 4 hour replacement part service on there top tier service packages. 

 

Until Apple start to offer Nvidia solutions then Apple is a non starter for many people.

 

a photo of my Dell precision 7920 attached 

[The King of the Undead]

17 hours ago, stevieb said:

A little late to reply to this, but I do not see how Apple can justify the cost of a basic entry level Xeon workstation chip. 

 

Dell / HP have systems cheaper with the Xeon Silver and Gold platform. 

 

Tye gold platform form allows dual CPU confit and additional PCIe lanes. 

 

I have both HP and Dell systems at work. There is no way Apple can compete with the service levels of HP/Dell in terms of a 4 hour replacement part service on there top tier service packages. 

 

Until Apple start to offer Nvidia solutions then Apple is a non starter for many people.

 

a photo of my Dell precision 7920 attached 

gimme!

[Guest]

I work for Fujtisu. We have many servers with similar spec as the Apple which also cost a premium price. There is more to it than the simple specs. Enterprise customers want reliability and the support on the rare occasions things do go wrong. We have in many cases a 2hr turn around should a server fail. However, it is very rare for one to fail as all components are made and tested to a very high standard. On top of that, a lot of redundancy is built in, as well as remote diagnostics and error reporting systems. Enterprise customers see the hardware cost as very minimal compared to the costs of downtime. In many cases the downtime can cost hundreds of thousands, of even millions in some contracts. When that happens the hardware vendor is firmly in the firing line for an explanation. So for all those comments suggesting a product is over priced, think about the reasons behind the premium price tag. We have systems stuffed in racks running 24/7 for years, often in conditions that are far from perfect, that never so much as cough let alone have a hissy fit. 

[Bouzoo]

28 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

I work for Fujtisu. We have many servers with similar spec as the Apple which also cost a premium price. There is more to it than the simple specs. Enterprise customers want reliability and the support on the rare occasions things do go wrong. We have in many cases a 2hr turn around should a server fail. However, it is very rare for one to fail as all components are made and tested to a very high standard. On top of that, a lot of redundancy is built in, as well as remote diagnostics and error reporting systems. Enterprise customers see the hardware cost as very minimal compared to the costs of downtime. In many cases the downtime can cost hundreds of thousands, of even millions in some contracts. When that happens the hardware vendor is firmly in the firing line for an explanation. So for all those comments suggesting a product is over priced, think about the reasons behind the premium price tag. We have systems stuffed in racks running 24/7 for years, often in conditions that are far from perfect, that never so much as cough let alone have a hissy fit. 

Though there is a key difference. While the new Mac Pro does cost a lot, it is obviously not targeted at enterprise customers that have dedicated servers. The Mac Pro may be for professionals, but it's not for that kind of end game market. It is still 1 system and not a full fledged server, per se.

[realpetertdm]

First of all why does the base model even exist lmao, iMac Pro's going to kill it

For 6k you can get a Titan RTX and a Threadripper

 

I can definently see this being viable somewhere around 10k or more but the base model is just terrible.

 

also PSA: The CPU in the base Mac Pro is a Xeon W, not a Xeon Gold. Some users on other sites seem to be confused

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Though there is a key difference. While the new Mac Pro does cost a lot, it is obviously not targeted at enterprise customers that have dedicated servers. The Mac Pro may be for professionals, but it's not for that kind of end game market. It is still 1 system and not a full fledged server, per se.

I do agree to an extent. My thoughts are that maybe Apple have used the best possible components quality wise throughout, I would certainly hope so at the cost. 

[stevieb]

1 hour ago, realpetertdm said:

First of all why does the base model even exist lmao, iMac Pro's going to kill it

For 6k you can get a Titan RTX and a Threadripper

 

I can definently see this being viable somewhere around 10k or more but the base model is just terrible.

 

also PSA: The CPU in the base Mac Pro is a Xeon W, not a Xeon Gold. Some users on other sites seem to be confused

Yes it is a Xeon-W but at the price Apple are charging it should offer Xeon Gold as there are more pros for this and then it may be able to justify the price tag

[NineEyeRon]

What would Seto Kaiba buy?

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, NineEyeRon said:

What would Seto Kaiba buy?

The company. Kaiba wpuld buy the company.

[Ashleyyyy]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:33 PM, Drak3 said:

I'm just waiting for it to be released to reserve judgement. Personally hoped that there would have been an offering closer to the $3K mark, but oh well.

Apple has that. if you want a powerful machine at $3K you can get an iMac.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

Apple has that. if you want a powerful machine at $3K you can get an iMac.

I want an actual desktop, not a flimst AiO.

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, Drak3 said:

I want an actual desktop, not a flimst AiO.

perhaps they can't offer that at $3K. remember the iMac (except for the iMac Pro but that starts at $5K) uses consumer grade cpu's and ram.

[Drak3]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

perhaps they can't offer that at $3K. remember the iMac (except for the iMac Pro but that starts at $5K) uses consumer grade cpu's and ram.

They can, very easily. Use consumer grade parts and simply call it 'Mac.'

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, Drak3 said:

They can, very easily. Use consumer grade parts and simply call it 'Mac.'

... ever heard of the Mac Mini? it has decent specs and a bunch of thunderbolt 3 ports, so you can use enclosures to expand it.

 

it's not perfect of course, but i don't think Apple believes that there is a market for an upgradable system using consumer-grade hardware considering Apple doesn't like nvidia gpu's and macOS is a terrible OS for gaming anyway.

[Mira Yurizaki]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:17 PM, stevieb said:

A little late to reply to this, but I do not see how Apple can justify the cost of a basic entry level Xeon workstation chip. 

 

Dell / HP have systems cheaper with the Xeon Silver and Gold platform. 

 

Tye gold platform form allows dual CPU confit and additional PCIe lanes. 

 

I have both HP and Dell systems at work. There is no way Apple can compete with the service levels of HP/Dell in terms of a 4 hour replacement part service on there top tier service packages. 

 

Until Apple start to offer Nvidia solutions then Apple is a non starter for many people.

 

a photo of my Dell precision 7920 attached

I tried using both HP and Dell to make something comparable using the specs that Apple provided for their. Both came close or failed miserably to reach the $6000 price point. Like for example, taking the base model 7920 starting at $2049. Adding an 8-core Xeon Gold that turbo boosts to at least 4.0 GHz like the Xeon-W in the Mac Pro, the Xeon Gold 6144, pushed the price to $4,843 and that's before adding a better graphics card (it starts with a single Radeon Pro WX2100) and more RAM (16GB).

[Drak3]

11 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

ever heard of the Mac Mini

I have one.

 

12 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

bunch of thunderbolt 3 ports, so you can use enclosures to expand it.

Have a Sonnet box with a 470 in it. Used to be a 580, but TB3 is such a bottleneck that it literally cuts performance in half.

 

13 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

macOS is a terrible OS for gaming anyway

False. I game on OSX. The ONLY issue I've found is lack of game selection, but seeing as Proton is a thing and OsSX can install Linux packages with relative ease, that's not all that big an issue.

[SenKa]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:59 PM, Sauron said:

Realistically pretty much nobody is going to buy the maxed out configuration, they just offer it because they have nothing to lose by doing so. The 1.5TB ram support is more geared towards future upgrades than being maxed out right now and so are other features - and also simply because the CPU supports it, so why shouldn't the motherboard?

Motherboard supports 2TB RAM, Apple ships with 1.5TB

 

Source: Apples website for the Mac Pro

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:31 PM, Sauron said:

It's Apple. Of course there's going to be a markup.

It's an apple workstation. Of course there's going to be a markup. 55 or die, after all.

[SenKa]

Apple sukcs!!1!!

 

People can shit on the Mac Pro all they want, but Apple has released the first modular Apple Device since the Mac Pro 6,1 and X-Serve kicked the bucket.

 

I don't care how much it is, I don't care about value, I dont care about a $999 dollar monitor stand.

 

Somebody on the design team at apple knows how to make a durable, upgradable, modular product again. That alone is a godsend, because it leads down a rabbit hole.

 

The Mac Pro made the "Pro" product stack make sense for once. This means a Mac Mini Pro with a socketed CPU, this means bringing back a 13" MacBook and giving the 13" Macbook Pro a dedicated GPU (with the 15" getting real GPU horsepower). This means Apple is looking back to the past and looking at what they did right while Steve Jobs was alive.

 

Honestly, it's beautiful. I hope Apple keeps going this direction and doesn't look to shitty reddit memes about "mUh ThOuSaNd DoLlAr StAnD" to gauge how well being a genuine company flys by consumers.

[Sauron]

21 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Motherboard supports 2TB RAM, Apple ships with 1.5TB

 

Source: Apples website for the Mac Pro

There may not be sufficiently high capacity DIMMs to max it out yet, at least none that Apple is willing to sell.

[SenKa]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

There may not be sufficiently high capacity DIMMs to max it out yet, at least none that Apple is willing to sell.

Thats what I would believe, yes. But it's nice to know Apple is doing as much looking into the future as they are the past. (See my post above)

[SenKa]

10 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Though there is a key difference. While the new Mac Pro does cost a lot, it is obviously not targeted at enterprise customers that have dedicated servers. The Mac Pro may be for professionals, but it's not for that kind of end game market. It is still 1 system and not a full fledged server, per se.

So that's why they offer a rackmount option and built the chassis to 4u spec, as well as built it with server grade components and cooling solutions? Because it isn't a server? 

[SenKa]

It feels like i've been replying to the same posts all day on Reddit, Discord, and here...

9 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

For 6k you can get a Titan RTX and a Threadripper

Im not even going to bother with this, because it's tiring. Threadripper is not Xeon. Xeon has genuine advantages over Threadripper, and macOS has literally 0 support for AMD systems natively. HackintoshOSX only exists because people spent what is probably equal to years of their lives making macOS believe it's running on AMD silicon only for a substandard experience with missing functionality. Also, you failed to mention the amount of RAM you spec'd this comparison system with, or storage. 

 

9 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

I can definently see this being viable somewhere around 10k or more but the base model is just terrible.

You worded this poorly, but I am assuming you meant product varients costing around 10k? Presumedly a low end 8 channel RAM config with a single Vega II and more RAM? If so, I agree. The base model is dumb, and everybody agrees.

 

9 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

The CPU in the base Mac Pro is a Xeon W, not a Xeon Gold. Some users on other sites seem to be confused

You, nor I, nor anybody (possibly including Apple) know this for sure. Most of the chips they market on their product page don't officially exist yet. Will they be Xeon W? I suspect the low end configs will be, and the high end will be Xeon Scalable. This would explain the strangeness about RAM configs. But the important part is until somebody goes out and buys one, then disassembles it and finds out, nobody knows.