Class action against Apple for systems damaged due to lack of dust filters

[NumLock21]

57 minutes ago, Docretier said:

It would prevent the dust from getting in there in the first place, or at least the majority of it which is causing the problem. Without filters all dust gets in and it builds up super quick, with one you could go 6 months to a year(depends on the conditions of environment) before there would be any noticeable build up. Even then it wouldn’t damage the components 

The vents are so thin adding one would most likely impeded air intake. And is there even a way to add a filter in the first place. Other aio don't have filters. All oems don't have filters either.

56 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It would require the user to clean out a filter, which I doubt most would do anyway. The "smudges" appearing on the screen though, i think could maybe be fixed by using a gasket to seal the gap in the display glass.

Dust still gets in, even if there are filters, less than before, but it still gets in. They still have to take it apart to properly clean it. Old imac front glass are held by magnets. Users can remove it with suction cups.

 

55 minutes ago, Docretier said:

Tires are meant to be used in that way, that is how they are designed. What apple has created is a design flaw that causes problems with the product. 

 

Yep, like how Pirelli, Goodyear, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Hankook, Yokohama, and Michelin are all different. 

[AHaskin14]

5 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

These aren't very good examples. In this example you're making the assumption that the lady is able to purchase her own "screens", in the case of Apple that is not the case. Apple doesn't put their "screens" on the market for people to purchase to replace or add. Apple actively prevents people from purchasing those "screens" online from third parties to install themselves and forces the old lady who just spent a fortune on a new house to hire a specialist to order special screens and install them. And before you ask, no this has nothing to do with the lawsuit but you keep bringing it up so I'm going to keep going off topic with you.

 

A much better example to the lawsuit would be that the elderly lady bought a house with no screens but when she went to go sweep out the bugs and leaves the construction company made the house in a way that the broom she had owned and used at her previous houses no longer works in her new house and was unable to sweep up the things in her house so she had to call a specialist to sweep her house every week/month/year.

But your suggesting that the woman HAD to get a professional. LTT tried repairing the imac, because they had the ability to, just like everyone has the potential to, if they learn how to and get the right tools. If you don't do that, then yes you need a professional. Nothing HAS to break, but there will always be that risk.

[Drak3]

43 minutes ago, Shally said:

The iMac is and incredibly hard device to open and dissemble. ONE accidental slip, that can happen to ANYONE(looking at you LTT team), can cost you thousands. Tell me one other product that that can happen to.

Any laptop or all in one, if the maintenance requires it.

 

It'd be better put like this:

 

The iMac is one of a small handful of products were even the most mundane maintenance work that requires a meticulous and risky method, whereas nearly all other products have provisions to avoid this.

Basically, if the iMac were a car, you'd need to remove the engine and transmission to refill your wiper fluid.

[KuJoe]

7 minutes ago, AHaskin14 said:

But your suggesting that the woman HAD to get a professional. LTT tried repairing the imac, because they had the ability to, just like everyone has the potential to, if they learn how to and get the right tools. If you don't do that, then yes you need a professional. Nothing HAS to break, but there will always be that risk.

Being able to fix something isn't just about the skills to do it, if you go watch the LTT videos about their Mac issues getting the parts to repair it was significantly harder than doing the work themselves (Linus even said they had to do a backroom deal to get the replacement part at a higher price). That's the problem here, not the skill or the tools it's the parts needed to do the work which is why the woman has to get a profession to purchase and install the screens.

[AHaskin14]

5 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

Being able to fix something isn't just about the skills to do it, if you go watch the LTT videos about their Mac issues getting the parts to repair it was significantly harder than doing the work themselves (Linus even said they had to do a backroom deal to get the replacement part at a higher price). That's the problem here, not the skill or the tools it's the parts needed to do the work which is why the woman has to get a profession to purchase and install the screens.

But what parts do you need to buy to dust a logic board?

[Spotty]

I think we need to look beyond the issue of "Is Apple at fault for not installing dust filters" and whether or not bad design warrants legal action, and instead look at the way Apple handled the service and complaints from customers after the fact.
 

Quote

The suit charges that people have had to pay for expensive repairs as a result, spending as much as $650 for non-warranty screen replacements when the fix might be as simple as removing the screen and wiping with a rag.

Quote

Evans had the screen on his iMac replaced three times, twice at his own expense, and also paid $900 to have his logic board replaced after his computer began to overheat and slow down.

^{Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/28/class-action-suit-accuses-apple-of-selling-macs-without-needed-dust-filters}

 

Customers who presented to Apple stores or AASP with the dust issue were charged expensive and unnecessary fixes, including replacing the screens that had a bit of dirt/dust on the inside of the glass (that could have been wiped clean with a cloth then reassembled), or even replacing entire logic boards allegedly due to dust build up inside the device. These devices should have been serviced by Apple to remove the dust and clean the existing components - Assuming there were no other faults with the devices that we are not aware of.

Apple/AASPs should not have replaced components that were otherwise functioning but just needed to be cleaned and serviced. If Apple had simply serviced the device, even if they charged a modest fee to do so, then this would not be a huge issue. Telling the customer that they need to pay for expensive and unnecessary part replacements is an issue with the way that Apple is conducting business.

 

I feel like there's a huge divide between telling a customer that there is dust build up inside the device that will cost them $69 for an tech/AASP to service the device to clean the internals, or telling customers they need to spend $900 to replace a logic board or $650 to buy an entirely new screen because the old one is a bit dusty.

[KuJoe]

5 minutes ago, AHaskin14 said:

But what parts do you need to buy to dust a logic board?

You're all over the place aren't you? If you don't like my answers don't ask the questions. If you insist on going off topic then don't act surprised when I answer your off topic question. I tried staying on topic but then you give "examples" not even related to the topic and when I try to make it on topic you talk about something completely different but when I reply to that you act like you don't have a clue what I was replying to. Sorry but I don't want to play these kinds of games in a topic regarding Apple.

[GoldenLag]

Just for reference.

 

As long as i can show that it is a design flaw i have the right to get repairs done on the machine 5 years after purschase. 

 

While regular Dust buildup cant be shown to be a designflaw. Dustbuildup getting to locations it should never have the ability to get to and that compromises the use of the product is a design flaw.

 

If they refuse to give me repairs at the local apple store i can roll up the consumer protection laws of my country to make them either repair it or receive a device of equal specification in return due to their inability to repair the product. 

 

Tl:dr: as long as i havent inflicted the fault myself or the fault isnt due to regular wear an tear (like regular dust-buildup) i get a free repair or replacement of the product (depending on how they deal with it)

 

Thank god for Norwegian consumer protection laws

[Docretier]

26 minutes ago, Spotty said:

I think we need to look beyond the issue of "Is Apple at fault for not installing dust filters" and whether or not bad design warrants legal action, and instead look at the way Apple handled the service and complaints from customers after the fact.
 

^{Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/28/class-action-suit-accuses-apple-of-selling-macs-without-needed-dust-filters}

 

Customers who presented to Apple stores or AASP with the dust issue were charged expensive and unnecessary fixes, including replacing the screens that had a bit of dirt/dust on the inside of the glass (that could have been wiped clean with a cloth then reassembled), or even replacing entire logic boards allegedly due to dust build up inside the device. These devices should have been serviced by Apple to remove the dust and clean the existing components - Assuming there were no other faults with the devices that we are not aware of.

Apple/AASPs should not have replaced components that were otherwise functioning but just needed to be cleaned and serviced. If Apple had simply serviced the device, even if they charged a modest fee to do so, then this would not be a huge issue. Telling the customer that they need to pay for expensive and unnecessary part replacements is an issue with the way that Apple is conducting business.

 

I feel like there's a huge divide between telling a customer that there is dust build up inside the device that will cost them $69 for an tech/AASP to service the device to clean the internals, or telling customers they need to spend $900 to replace a logic board or $650 to buy an entirely new screen because the old one is a bit dusty.

Apples business practices are generally deplorable when it comes to servicing customers. I actually feel bad when I have to direct people to the apple store for an issue that we can’t fix, like software bugs and failed home buttons.

[asus killer]

as long as it has no air entrances and a blower style fan (as most macbooks do i believe) dust filters will solve nothing. Lot's of other brands do this.

Don't know about imacs.

 

besides is the owners responsibility to clean them and dust filters don't do miracles, less dust for sure but no dust is impossible.

[EarthWormJM2]

2 hours ago, AHaskin14 said:

What's proprietary about it? If you would like to disassembles the product and clean it, you have every right to do so. Ifixit sells the tools. If you your not capable of doing it yourself, you take it to someone to do it for you. Apple is proprietary with the purchasing of its parts, but dusting something shouldn't require you to replace anything.

... I don't think you are understanding that if someone takes it to apple for an issue related to dust, they should be REPAIRING the device by opening it up and cleaning it out, not REPLACING an entire component because it has dust in it and overcharging for the "repair" (unless a serious case where the dust killed the component). It's not a simple matter of "taking it to someone to do it for you" when the place you take it to (Apple) doesn't actually clean it out for you or do the actual fix and instead overcharges to replace the components and then tries to sway you into just buying an entire new device. 

 

It specifically states:

3 hours ago, Spotty said:

including up to $5,000 for class action members who qualify as senior citizens or disabled.

So the idea is that Apple is preying on older and disabled people as well who wouldn't know better or even have the knowledge to know better as Apple doesn't put it out there. Most of the general public doesn't even know about other options or whats going on with Apple, so how would people that struggle with technology know? And please don't respond with, "well then they shouldn't buy it", as you have mentioned before, because that is just a very ignorant statement.

 

[EarthWormJM2]

2 hours ago, AHaskin14 said:

What's proprietary about it? If you would like to disassembles the product and clean it, you have every right to do so. Ifixit sells the tools. If you your not capable of doing it yourself, you take it to someone to do it for you. Apple is proprietary with the purchasing of its parts, but dusting something shouldn't require you to replace anything.

... I don't think you are understanding that if someone takes it to apple for an issue related to dust, they should be REPAIRING the device by opening it up and cleaning it out, not REPLACING an entire component because it has dust in it and overcharging for the "repair" (unless a serious case where the dust killed the component). It's not a simple matter of "taking it to someone to do it for you" when the place you take it to (Apple) doesn't actually clean it out for you or do the actual fix and instead overcharges to replace the components and then tries to sway you into just buying an entire new device. 

 

It specifically states:

3 hours ago, Spotty said:

including up to $5,000 for class action members who qualify as senior citizens or disabled.

So the idea is that Apple is preying on older and disabled people as well who wouldn't know better or even have the knowledge to know better as Apple doesn't put it out there. Most of the general public doesn't even know about other options or whats going on with Apple, so how would people that struggle with technology know? And please don't respond with, "well then they shouldn't buy it", as you have mentioned before, because that is just a very ignorant statement.

[Guest]

Never had this happen. If you take care of your device dust won't get in. It's also pretty impossible for the dust to get behind the screen in the macbooks. 

[Dabombinable]

Considering they were told to get the screen replaced, instead of it simply cleaning (which was all that was needed) the "damaged" displays....I fully understand why people are pissed.

[corrado33]

Jesus freaking christ every windows laptop I've ever opened up did NOT have a filter.

 

May as well extend the lawsuit to EVERY computer manufacturer.

 

Pretty sure that no dell computer has air filters....

[DrMacintosh]

I mean, isn’t this a drawback of ALL All-in-one PCs? How many laptops on the market have dust filters? How many OEM Desktop towers at bestbuy have dust filters? Even the machines that do are eventually going to get VERY dusty!

 

Dust builds up, that’s just a fact. You need to clean your computer every once and a while, that is also just a fact. Computers are not an appliance, computers are complicated machines that need servicing. You doing nothing and as a result your computer getting filled with dust isn’t on any PC OEM.  

 

Should Apple offer cleaning? Sure, maybe even for free! Especially since opening machines made by Apple (specifically the iMac) is not inherently easy......But should Apple be getting sued over this? I don’t see how. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

mean, isn’t this a drawback of ALL All-in-one PCs? 

 

Which is why most of them have access points for regulatory maintenance.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Which is why most of them have access points for regulatory maintenance.

Do they now?

[Drak3]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Do they now?

Yes. Only ones I've seen without either have large vents near any points where dust builds up, allowing these areas to be cleaned without any disassembly, or the Surface Studio.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. Only ones I've seen without either have large vents near any points where dust builds up, allowing these areas to be cleaned without any disassembly, or the Surface Studio.

But either way there is still some expectation on the users end to clean the machines correct? Jk, it’s a rhetorical question, of course that expectation is still there. 

 

Therefore if Apple suddenly started a cleaning program at their Apple store the lawsuit would pretty much have to dissolve, its foundation is already incredibly weak. It’s just lawyers wanting to make a quick buck. 

[corrado33]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. Only ones I've seen without either have large vents near any points where dust builds up, allowing these areas to be cleaned without any disassembly, or the Surface Studio.

When's the last time you saw a laptop that was "easily disassembled" for cleaning?

 

Never.  

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

When's the last time you saw a laptop that was "easily disassembled" for cleaning?

 

Never.  

My Acer Aspire. 2017 Dell Inspiron 17 2 in 1.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

When's the last time you saw a laptop that was "easily disassembled" for cleaning?

 

Never.  

I'd also argue that for the vast majority of people, there is no such thing as "easily disassemble-able". MacBook Pros are quite easily to disassemble (to access the motherboard), only requiring the unscrewing of ten screws (if a $3 screwdriver on Amazon is an obstacle, then so is the process of using a screwdriver), but most people will still never attempt it.

 

That doesn't make Apple's focus on making things impossible even for themselves to repair okay, but let's not pretend that something "easy" would actually be something that most people take advantage of.

[corrado33]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

My Acer Aspire. 2017 Dell Inspiron 17 2 in 1.

So are you saying that every single person who has owned an Acer Aspire has disassembled it to clean it yearly? 

 

You're obviously oblivious. 

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

I'd also argue that for the vast majority of people, there is no such thing as "easily disassemble-able". MacBook Pros are quite easily to disassemble, only requiring the unscrewing of ten screws (if a $3 screwdriver on Amazon is an obstacle, then so is the process of using a screwdriver), but most people will still never attempt it.

I think the biggest complaint is with iMac. Since MacBook Pro and Mac Pro can all be serviced by anyone with 15min, a $3 screw driver, and some compressed air. 

 

iMac on the other hand requires going in through the display. Dust getting under the glass or on the LCD is only a concern on non-laminated machines though. 

 

I think this lawsuite is a farce.