Titan XP price might be justified

[App4that]

1 minute ago, GEHORC said:

It doesn't matter, if it is 10, 20 or 80% faster. The price is still not justified. This is the new Titan. It should cost as much as the old Titan plus a tad for inflation.

 

If every card that brings +20% performance to the table costs 20% more, we will end up with a $2000 Titan class card by 2020.

Will the GTX1360 cost >$500 and AMDs new RX780 be $400 then? That's just bullshit.

 

Let's cheer for the new i7-9970X for $3000. Campatible motherboards with X290 Chipset starting at 600$.

But that not how it works. Look at cars, look at phones. If you want technology to advance then you pay for it or don't. Those that are willing to pay for the best so they have the best will push technology forward. 

[Tech Inquisition]

TL:DR:DC

 

Just buy the card and tell us whT you think about it...

[GEHORC]

26 minutes ago, App4that said:

But that not how it works. Look at cars, look at phones. If you want technology to advance then you pay for it or don't. Those that are willing to pay for the best so they have the best will push technology forward. 

That's not quite correct. The price for developing the new stuff is and was always included in the product price.

This has a whole new dimension.

It's not only the Titan class. From the GTX460 to the GTX960 the x60 class card was always $199 and now the 1060 is $249 all of a sudden. (I'll ignore the fact that you can't actually buy it for $249)

If we go on with this 25% from now on every 1.5 years, instead of keeping the price of a card of the same tier, what will your GTX1660 in 2026 cost?

 

Just some more numbers:

GTX285: $400 ==> GTX480: $499 ==> GTX980: $549 ==> GTX 1080: $599

Has your salary increased by 50% from 2009 til now?

 

And on top of that: the GTX 285 was only outperformed by the GTX295 at the time, which was a dual GPU card for $500.

So this very GTX295 from Jan. 2009 for $500 is the card that has to be compared to the Titan XP for $1200.

This is a 140% increase over 7.5 years. Where will this go?!

 

[othertomperson]

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard How is waiting for something that may or may not emerge, with no ETA a sane thing to do?

Wait you're saying you're expecting AMD to never release another product again!? That is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

[HKZeroFive]

Why is there a need to justify the card in the first place? The Titan moniker has always been synonymous with enthusiasts who'd pay top dollar for the best of the best. Even NVIDIA has moved it away from the GeForce GTX branding - it's a niche product intended for the top 1%. The other 99% can stand back and drool at the thought of doing naughty things with it.

 

Let the man enjoy his damn card.

[RyGuy99]

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

It's clearly not that insane if they don't change it. If it sells the number of units they want, then it's perfectly sane.

There are lots of people that will pay more money for more performance, and in the higher niche brackets it never scales the same.

Surprised you don't know that.

You're a bit late to the party. Anyways it's not surprising at all that there is a niche. I'm just saying that OP is trying really hard to justify the buy despite being a "starving student." It doesn't seem like the smartest buy for someone like that. 

"Surprised you don't know that."

[App4that]

@GEHORC 

1 hour ago, RyGuy99 said:

You're a bit late to the party. Anyways it's not surprising at all that there is a niche. I'm just saying that OP is trying really hard to justify the buy despite being a "starving student." It doesn't seem like the smartest buy for someone like that. 

"Surprised you don't know that."

If you expect manufacturers to be paid the same for a product they have no reason to make the product better. In your job analogy, that would be like me as your boss expecting you to do more and more for the same pay. You'd quit. 

 

And I am a starving student, quite literally sometimes  But I'm a student, so I'm clever. I realize that spending most of my income of things that have no value, well is stupid. But what do most people do? They pay for a bottle of water on the way to work, rather than using a glass bottle they have owned for years and water from the tap. They drink soda, rather than water. They drive cars, they pay for cable, they go to bars, and all the things that make them broke with nothing to show for it. 

 

I buy things with value and ether use them until that value has been satisfied, or sell them at the appropriate time so as to maximize my return on the investment. 

 

Take a month and keep track of everything you buy, EVERYTHING. End of the moth tally it up, see how much of your income goes where. Get back to me.

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

Wait you're saying you're expecting AMD to never release another product again!? That is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

Did I say that? No. Nice try.

1 hour ago, RyGuy99 said:

You're a bit late to the party. Anyways it's not surprising at all that there is a niche. I'm just saying that OP is trying really hard to justify the buy despite being a "starving student." It doesn't seem like the smartest buy for someone like that. 

"Surprised you don't know that."

I didn't see him once say he was starving. Just that he's a student. Not all students are struggling financially.

[GEHORC]

14 minutes ago, App4that said:

@GEHORC 

If you expect manufacturers to be paid the same for a product they have no reason to make the product better. In you job analogy, that would be like me as your boss expecting you to do more and more for the same pay. You'd quit. 

 

And I am a starving student, quite literally sometimes  But I'm a student, so I'm clever. I realize that spending most of my income of things that have no value, well is stupid. But what do most people do? They pay for a bottle of water on the way to work, rather than using a glass bottle they have owned for years and water from the tap. They drink soda, rather than water. They drive cars, they pay for cable, they go to bars, and all the things that make them broke with nothing to show for it. 

 

I buy things with value and ether use them until that value has been satisfied, or sell them at the appropriate time so as to maximize my return on the investment. 

If you do all the things you say about tap water, public transportation etc. you have my respect.

 

But there is in fact a reason, to sell the better followup product for the same price:

People will upgrade and therefor buy another product!

TBH im ok with the Titan being expensive. It's a enthusiast product. People who desperately want it, will pay for it.

But im not ok with raising the price of the entire lineup. Because as hardware becomes more powerful games will become more demanding.

And if my budget for a video card always was $200 bucks, i could buy a 960 last time. This time i can't get the xx60 card for that price.

So I can't play that one new demanding game, because i cant afford the hardware. Just hypothetically speaking (I'm fine with my 970).

 

An about the investment side of things:

A Titan is certainly not a good investment of money. A good investment is getting the best bang for your buck.

These days that is probably anything from a used 970 for €154 (recent eBay offer)  up to a 1070 - nothing more.

[App4that]

11 minutes ago, GEHORC said:

If you do all the things you say about tap water, public transportation etc. you have my respect.

 

But there is in fact a reason, to sell the better followup product for the same price:

People will upgrade and therefor buy another product!

TBH im ok with the Titan being expensive. It's a enthusiast product. People who desperately want it, will pay for it.

But im not ok with raising the price of the entire lineup. Because as hardware becomes more powerful games will become more demanding.

And if my budget for a video card always was $200 bucks, i could buy a 960 last time. This time i can't get the xx60 card for that price.

So I can't play that one new demanding game, because i cant afford the hardware. Just hypothetically speaking (I'm fine with my 970).

 

An about the investment side of things:

A Titan is certainly not a good investment of money. A good investment is getting the best bang for your buck.

These days that is probably anything from a used 970 for €154 (recent eBay offer)  up to a 1070 - nothing more.

Competition keeps manufacturers from doing what you say. Look at the RX 480, how much did a 380 Nitro cost? If a manufacturer works within a budget they get creamed. 

 

And bang for the buck is highly subjective. I know people who scream and yell the iGPU in a Intel CPU or a AMD APU is all you need and anything else is a waste  I really do. 

 

The RX 480 can't supply the fps needed with a 1440 144hz monitor. A 1070 can do an pretty good job and is a great value, but has limitations and won't have that great a resale if you want to trade up. The 1080 can with confidence supply the fps needed to a 1440 144hz monitor. But what about 4K? The 1080 gets close, real close. But if you want a locked 60fps with the sliders to the right, you need something more. And the new Titan is that something. 1080s is SLI is more expensive, but an atractive alternative. The Pro Due is 300us more. Dual 980tis make way more heat and require a large power supply. So there's trade offs. But as the only single GPU option and one of the cheapest. From the 4K perspective the Pascal Titan X is a great bang for the buck.

[GEHORC]

 

3 minutes ago, App4that said:

Competition keeps manufacturers from doing what you say. Look at the RX 480, how much did a 380 Nitro cost? If a manufacturer works within a budget they get creamed. 

 

And bang for the buck is highly subjective. I know people who scream and yell the iGPU in a Intel CPU or a AMD APU is all you need and anything else is a waste  I really do. 

 

The RX 480 can't supply the fps needed with a 1440 144hz monitor. A 1070 can do an pretty good job and is a great value, but has limitations and won't have that great a resale if you want to trade up. The 1080 can with confidence supply the fps needed to a 1440 144hz monitor. But what about 4K? The 1080 gets close, real close. But if you want a locked 60fps with the sliders to the right, you need something more. And the new Titan is that something. 1080s is SLI is more expensive, but an atractive alternative. The Pro Due is 300us more. Dual 980tis make way more heat and require a large power supply. So there's trade offs. But as the only single GPU option and one of the cheapest. From the 4K perspective the Pascal Titan X is a great bang for the buck.

If you want UHD 144 Hz than you need a beefier card that's for sure.

 

But that has nothing to do with bang for the buck.

FPS per dollar is an objective hard fact and has nothing to do with subjectivity.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, GEHORC said:

 

If you want UHD 144 Hz than you need a beefier card that's for sure.

 

But that has nothing to do with bang for the buck.

FPS per dollar is an objective hard fact and has nothing to do with subjectivity.

Ah, but there is! Resolution. Look at fps/dollar at 4K 

[GEHORC]

12 minutes ago, App4that said:

Ah, but there is! Resolution. Look at fps/dollar at 4K 

I do. The 970 for $200 completly destroys the 1080 for $600.

 

Firestrike Ultra (4K):

970: 14.1 points/dollar

1080: 8.4 points/dollar (new titan not yet included in this benchmark)

 

Far Cry Primal Ultra settings @1440p:

970: 0.18 frame/dollar

1080: 0.12 frame/dollar (new titan not yet included in this benchmark)

Spoiler

 

[App4that]

3 minutes ago, GEHORC said:

I do. An the 970 completly destroys the 1080.

 

Firestrike Ultra:

970: 14.1 points/dollar

1080: 8.4 points/dollar (new titan not yet included in this benchmark)

 

Far Cry Primal @1440p:

970: 0.18 frame/dollar

1080: 0.12 frame/dollar (new titan not yet included in this benchmark)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That's 1440, try 4K. See I'm leading you to the realization that at 4K you have very limited choices, and a 970 isn't one of them. Not if you want to hold 60fps.

 

Price to performance is subjective, because performance is. 

[GEHORC]

Ok there we go. Some people are just not capable of abstract thinking.

(Firestrike Ultra is 4k by the way).

I have told you everything important. If you don't understand the difference between objective and subjective i cant help you.

 

[App4that]

12 minutes ago, GEHORC said:

Ok there we go. Some people are just not capable of abstract thinking.

(Firestrike Ultra is 4k by the way).

I have told you everything important. If you don't understand the difference between objective and subjective i cant help you.

 

 no what you're exhibiting is a fixed mindset. You have one view in mind and try to force everyone to share it. Not how it works. The best bang for the buck depends on what the person wants to do. Would a 970 be the best bang for the buck for someone who just surfs the Internet and watches YouTube? 

 

But your view is yours to have. Just know this is a facts fight, and the point of view in Question is one of those facts. 

[Soapierpompano]

I'm I the only one who notice that in the hardware specs the cpu is an i5-4570? #BOTTLENECK

 

[App4that]

20 minutes ago, Soapierpompano said:

I'm I the only one who notice that in the hardware specs the cpu is an i5-4570? #BOTTLENECK

 

That's because the CPU is along for the ride. But yeah I saw that too.

[Bhav]

Well I'm gonna put a Titan X in with my G4400! Haters gonna hate.

 

/s

[othertomperson]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Did I say that? No. Nice try.

I told him to wait until AMD release something, and you said "that may or may not emerge". What, ever? I wouldn't get a Titan XP until AMD does something, I would get dual 1080s or dual 1070s instead. More (FP32) compute performance, more gaming performance, better value for money.

[App4that]

9 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

I told him to wait until AMD release something, and you said "that may or may not emerge". What, ever? I wouldn't get a Titan XP until AMD does something, I would get dual 1080s or dual 1070s instead. More (FP32) compute performance, more gaming performance, better value for money.

Look at it from my perspective. You want me to wait at least 5 months to see what AMD releases with Vega even though they haven't been able to compete with Nvidia in the enthusiast market in the hopes they might break that trend so that I can buy a graphics card that doesn't utilize the feature that raised the price of my monitor by 200us?

 

And that doesn't seem weird to you? I'm asking honestly, because your proposal doesn't seem right.

[vanished]

Quote

we cannot and should not convert those results into gaming performance, so it doesn’t really tells is how much faster TITAN X Pascal would be from TITAN X Maxwell. It does however tell us that TITAN X P has much better performance in synthetic CUDA-based software, which can be used in deep learning neural networks.

Well that's all fine and good for those of who are actually doing those things but the people on this forum, by and large, and just going to care about gaming performance, so I'd hold off a little longer before we call it a "bargain"

[App4that]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well that's all fine and good for those of who are actually doing those things but the people on this forum, by and large, and just going to care about gaming performance, so I'd hold off a little longer before we call it a "bargain"

Then name something that has the level of performance the new Titan X claims to have for less? Pro Duo is 1500us. 1080 SLI is 1300us. A Corvette is a bargain if you compare the cost of other cars having it's performance.

[vanished]

Just now, App4that said:

Then name something that has the level of performance the new Titan X claims to have for less? Pro Duo is 1500us. 1080 SLI is 1300us. A Corvette is a bargain if you compare the cost of other cars having it's performance.

My point is that "its level of performance" depends on what you want to do with it

[App4that]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

My point is that "its level of performance" depends on what you want to do with it

Exactly. If you own a 4k monitor and want a locked 60fps, the Pascal Titan X is a bargain. If you own a 60hz 1080p monitor, then it will seem silly.