PSU Tier List [OLD]

[turkey3_scratch]

If there's something to know about Jonnyguru.com it's that the members there generally value a PSU's fan and noise as well as protections (especially Stefan Payne) more than any other place on the Internet. That may be (just one) reason why they find most tier lists bad, along with just disliking tier lists. I guess in the end there is some irony since the Jonnyguru was working on a tier list himself. Though, that one differed a bit by almost acting as an information table on different PSUs and not basing anything off ripple and voltage scores.

 

If you wanted you could always make an offtopic post on Jonnyguru asking what they think could be improved in this tier list, or to point out a few specific units they think are misplaced. But chances are the only responses you'd get would be disrespectful.

[LienusLateTips]

13 hours ago, awesomegamer919 said:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=520 T1? Seems to beat the G2 although only Semi Mod (ATX/EPS are hardwired)...

Lol, only Tier 2. Also, it's already on the list.

 

[Herman Mcpootis]

8 hours ago, turkey3_scratch said:

 

 

If you wanted you could always make an offtopic post on Jonnyguru asking what they think could be improved in this tier list, or to point out a few specific units they think are misplaced. But chances are the only responses you'd get would be disrespectful.

just from that thread and from earlier threads, it's pretty obvious they're just gonna insult him and ban him afterwards, judging from Johnny's reply. that's not his first ban threat for listing a tier list too, i remember him threatening to ban some old members for linking/mentioning this tier list some time back.

[STRMfrmXMN]

11 hours ago, turkey3_scratch said:

If there's something to know about Jonnyguru.com it's that the members there generally value a PSU's fan and noise as well as protections (especially Stefan Payne) more than any other place on the Internet. That may be (just one) reason why they find most tier lists bad, along with just disliking tier lists. I guess in the end there is some irony since the Jonnyguru was working on a tier list himself. Though, that one differed a bit by almost acting as an information table on different PSUs and not basing anything off ripple and voltage scores.

 

If you wanted you could always make an offtopic post on Jonnyguru asking what they think could be improved in this tier list, or to point out a few specific units they think are misplaced. But chances are the only responses you'd get would be disrespectful.

I, too, value a fan and protections but subjective things of importance like noise are not that important to me (well, as an individual I like a very quiet PSU, yes but to the broad population I don't put one unit one tier above for being quiet or anything like that). I'm sure the people there can find some common ground with me but I think the snobbish attitude of the users there is too off-putting for me to want to post there. The thread you linked right there has a user with an FX 6XXX CPU, a 750 TI and a $120 Seasonic PSU to power it. That's a ludicrous mishandling of money for a PC and I think that if I didn't agree to follow that trend I'd not be "one of them," if that makes sense, as if they wouldn't value my input.

 

I'd assume that they would want to modify this list to the point where it loses any resemblance of its succinctness which is what makes it digestible and approachable. It is what it is.

 

 

[awesomegamer919]

6 hours ago, JDE said:

Lol, only Tier 2. Also, it's already on the list.

 

Why though? According to Oklahoma's tests it went toe to toe with the G2, beating it in some areas...

[STRMfrmXMN]

11 minutes ago, awesomegamer919 said:

Why though? According to Oklahoma's tests it went toe to toe with the G2, beating it in some areas...

Hmm, might have read different reviews, seem to recall JG saying it was minutely better than the G2 in VREG.

 

Anyways, my brain is too tired to process this so good night man

[awesomegamer919]

On the 850w Units the TXM did 0.47% reg whilst the G2 did 0.9% cold, the TXM thrashed the G2 in efficiency (G2 needed the 1% margin to pass gold, the TXM used that margin to hit platinum) cold as well.

 

In the hot box the G2 barely hit Gold and had a reg of 1.2% whilst the TXM easily passed gold (No platinum this time though) and had a reg of 0.69%.

 

The G2 had pretty much equal ripple control as the TXM on 3.3V and 5V rails and beat it on 12V rail.

 

Overall the TXM and G2 seem to beat approximately equal...

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=520

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=377

[turkey3_scratch]

I would definitely make the TXM Tier 1. Those things are really good.

[STRMfrmXMN]

6 minutes ago, turkey3_scratch said:

I would definitely make the TXM Tier 1. Those things are really good.

Alrighty, it is better than a comparably priced Seasonic G-series and I think it's a good T1 candidate.

[turkey3_scratch]

13 hours ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

The thread you linked right there has a user with an FX 6XXX CPU, a 750 TI and a $120 Seasonic PSU to power it. That's a ludicrous mishandling of money for a PC and I think that if I didn't agree to follow that trend I'd not be "one of them,"

 

 

Neh Sit'hari knows that's overkill, I forget why he uses that PSU, some particular reason I believe. Believe me, there is definitely anything but overkill PSU recommendations on there.

[comicsansms]

Is Li Shin Electronics the same as Lite-on?

I was looking at a laptop charger and it had "Suzhou Li shin Electronic Co. Ltd" written on it. I have never heard of them before, so I googled the UL number and it popped up with Lite-on.

[genexis_x]

Looks like the new Seasonic Focus Plus Gold is EVGA G2/G3 killer...offers excellent performance, 10 year warranty and yet have the same (for 550W) or cheaper price (650/750/850W).

[turkey3_scratch]

6 hours ago, ZM Fong said:

Looks like the new Seasonic Focus Plus Gold is EVGA G2/G3 killer...offers excellent performance, 10 year warranty and yet have the same or cheaper price.

We don't have a comprehensive enough review yet IMO to make those direct comparisons. I'll wait for a Tom's or TPU review first so I can see how holdup time and transient response compare to the G2/G3. Transient response IMO is the most important test. Any oscilloscope reading of any hardware will show power never sits still so all those voltage tests at Jonnyguru are very unrealistic to begin with.

[Guest]

You guys do realize I'm a member here too.  ;-)

 

Just the back and forth in the last few posts about where TX-M vs G2, G3, etc. should go in the tier list is testimony to my point.

 

Turkey linked my previous attempt to do a proper tier list, but I gave up on it.  Too many things to consider.  I ended up with 10 tiers.  

 

And while reviews at jonnyguru.com are used in consideration for position in the tier list, it seems like the age of the review isn't taken into consideration.  A PSU that got a 9 point whatever 10 years ago was good 10 years ago, but when you consider the topology (which lends to compatibility) and voltage regulation (which has reached mythic levels over the last couple years for units nearing a score of 10), those high scoring units are relatively crap today.  

 

So reviews are done on a sliding scale.  A 10 today is not what a 10 was 5 or 10 years ago.  Alternately, we could just start grading things as "11", or "15", but that's silly.  

 

You can say my reaction to tier lists is "immature".  But for me it's just being beyond the point of frustrated.  You have people that only look at a tier list and not any reviews to even see WHY their PSU is in the tier they're in.  The link to the forums where I closed the thread is a prime example.  That Seaonic is "ok", but it's old.  Better things have come along.  And if someone reads the reviews and looks at the dates of the reviews, they would realize that.  But no.  They want to be spoon fed information on what to buy based on a biased tier list.  It's silly.

 

[Guest]

On 7/7/2017 at 1:52 PM, STRMfrmXMN said:

1, yes, but the HX series is so scattered since they were originally called the HX, then the HXi, now we're back to HX.

 

So saying "HX Platinum" vs. "HX Gold" vs. "HX Bronze" is just too complicated?

[STRMfrmXMN]

2 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You guys do realize I'm a member here too.  ;-)

 

Just the back and forth in the last few posts about where TX-M vs G2, G3, etc. should go in the tier list is testimony to my point.

 

Turkey linked my previous attempt to do a proper tier list, but I gave up on it.  Too many things to consider.  I ended up with 10 tiers.  

 

And while reviews at jonnyguru.com are used in consideration for position in the tier list, it seems like the age of the review isn't taken into consideration.  A PSU that got a 9 point whatever 10 years ago was good 10 years ago, but when you consider the topology (which lends to compatibility) and voltage regulation (which has reached mythic levels over the last couple years for units nearing a score of 10), those high scoring units are relatively crap today.  

 

So reviews are done on a sliding scale.  A 10 today is not what a 10 was 5 or 10 years ago.  Alternately, we could just start grading things as "11", or "15", but that's silly.  

 

You can say my reaction to tier lists is "immature".  But for me it's just being beyond the point of frustrated.  You have people that only look at a tier list and not any reviews to even see WHY their PSU is in the tier they're in.  The link to the forums where I closed the thread is a prime example.  That Seaonic is "ok", but it's old.  Better things have come along.  And if someone reads the reviews and looks at the dates of the reviews, they would realize that.  But no.  They want to be spoon fed information on what to buy based on a biased tier list.  It's silly.

 

Ah, he came out of the woodwork!

 

There wasn't much "back and forth" really. A user came forward with a comprehensive review, compared it to the benchmark for T1 (the G2) and showed it to be equal or superior in every way and I placed it tier 1.

 

Which units do you think are out of place based on age? I've tried to account for some of this, namely obvious older designs like the Seasonic S12/M12 but perhaps there are more you think are out of place?

 

Most people who go out of their way to read reviews just skip to the "conclusion" page to see where everything is scored and don't understand ripple/VREG/component selection etc enough to warrant reading the juicy bits of the review. This list doesn't seem different from doing that, or at least to me. You also evaluate units based on performance per dollar and I don't for the sake of this list. It's why we bumped the EVGA NEX up a tier (even though it's poorly priced compared to several similarly priced EVGA units that perform better) so by that metric (not that it's a bad one, you do reviews that thousands of people look up to) a unit might be perceived as better than another much higher priced (and superior) unit.

2 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

So saying "HX Platinum" vs. "HX Gold" vs. "HX Bronze" is just too complicated?

Well when you say it like that I suppose it can't be that difficult (albeit I had been up for 20 hours by the time I wrote that)...

 

What in your list warranted having 10 tiers? The succinctness of something like this seems like it would be lost by then.

[Guest]

Things to consider that would be transparent to most end users:

 

Topology, compatibility, quality of components, quality of fan....

 

Things that wouldn't be so obvious to end users:

 

Actual QC of factory, actual failure rate, cost down measures taken vs. efforts to reduce failures....

 

I admit that my "opnion" of certain products has to do with what I know goes behind the scenes.  Since that can't always (if even rarely) be disclosed, it's understandable if someone takes what I say with a grain of salt.  I used to have an "AMA" sub-forum that was private to most users where I would discuss how different QA procedures were addressed, or not addressed in some cases, but a couple of the members were communicating what I was saying with individuals outside the group, so I had to shut it down.  So, because I can't trust anyone, I have to limit what I can say about what makes one PSU better than another beyond what's disclosed in a typical review.

[Guest]

There are a bunch of different versions of the Thermaltake TR2, yet it's only listed once under "tier 7".  The CWT based TR2 Bronze is the same platform as the Antec Neo Eco, yet the Neo Eco is listed as "Tier 3".  And then there's the TR2 Gold, which are actually better than either the Neo Eco or the TR2 Bronze.

 

Just doesn't make sense.....

[STRMfrmXMN]

24 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

There are a bunch of different versions of the Thermaltake TR2, yet it's only listed once under "tier 7".  The CWT based TR2 Bronze is the same platform as the Antec Neo Eco, yet the Neo Eco is listed as "Tier 3".  And then there's the TR2 Gold, which are actually better than either the Neo Eco or the TR2 Gold.

 

Just doesn't make sense.....

That I can change. Thanks for pointing it out (though which Neo Ecos are based on the same platform as the TR2?). Yet there's this.

Quote

And then there's the TR2 Gold, which are actually better than either the Neo Eco or the TR2 Gold.

What

Edited July 17, 2017 by STRMfrmXMN
Edited several times

[Starelementpoke]

45 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

That I can change. Thanks for pointing it out (though which Neo Ecos are based on the same platform as the TR2?). Yet there's this.

What

Found it: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153224

Uses the same platform as this PSU: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=420

Review is from 2015, just as an extra bit of info.

[turkey3_scratch]

Where did you get the information for ranking the FSP Hydro (non-X and non-G)?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

What

I meant TR2 Bronze.  Post fixed.

 

[STRMfrmXMN]

14 hours ago, turkey3_scratch said:

Where did you get the information for ranking the FSP Hydro (non-X and non-G)?

Hmm, looking at it I don't know. I think there's info regarding an X and a G but I don't see a "regular" old Hydro.

[MEC-777]

In light of @jonnyGURU's input, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to signify which units are no longer in production, and/or are beyond a certain age (3-4 years old+)? At least then people can look at the list and know that while a certain unit may have been placed in tier 2, for example, it's also 3+ years old and may not be as good as other units in the same tier. The other option would be to move these older units to lower tiers, simply due to their age? I'm not quite sure how to go about doing this, but it is a valid issue to be addressed.  

[STRMfrmXMN]

1 minute ago, MEC-777 said:

In light of @jonnyGURU's input, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to signify which units are no longer in production, and/or are beyond a certain age (3-4 years old+)? At least then people can look at the list and know that while a certain unit may have been placed in tier 2, for example, it's also 3+ years old and may not be as good as other units in the same tier. The other option would be to move these older units to lower tiers, simply due to their age? I'm not quite sure how to go about doing this, but it is a valid issue to be addressed.  

I'd bump them down.