Windows 8 Flack

[JefferyD90]

First off, I want intelligent answers to this post.  Any post that is just ranting without a solid backing WILL be ignored.

 

Also this needs to be backed up with something other than your personal ideas.  This is to be informative and NOT just another rant.

 

Now onto the topic at hand.  This is brought up by a simple question, why are so many people opposed to Windows 8?  It performs much better, offers a higher level of security, supports newer hardware, and has more integration with other software (like email, social messaging, SkyDrive, and so on) and many other great features.  The whole Operating System is stable, very few bugs to work through, and really is everything Windows 7 couldn't hope to be.  Everyday task are, literally, twice as fast to do simply because the number of steps required to do said task is cut in half.  Not to include the extra capabilities, like one touch sharing and simplified device management.

 

So now onto my main issue here, I honestly believe it’s simply because it’s a change (if it’s for the good or not) and people don’t want to change.

 

So here is the challenge, and were your responses come into play.  What EXACTLY is the problem with Windows 8?  Let’s address the obvious first, the start screen/menu.

 

Everyone is complaining about the lack of the Start Menu.  First off, I suggest that there is no lack of a start menu, most people are just too narrow minded to see it.  The Windows 8 Start Screen, is a start menu.  It has icons and links and everything the Windows 7 Start Menu had.  The tiles in the Windows 8 Start Screen are just like icons, you click them you open the corresponding app.  You right click and it opens a submenu with other options.  You click, drag, and drop them to move them.  So what really makes it different?  The Windows 8 Start Screen opens by default (this isn’t that big and is explained in just a minute).  The Windows 8 Start screen eliminates multiple clicks.  The Windows 8 Start Screen looks much cleaner, and more beautiful (this isn’t even debatable).

Most people are going to say that you lose your "All Programs" folders and such.  Well I say that is a null and void point.  The Windows 8 start screen has the ability to move your tiles around to wherever you want them.  You can customize groups of tiles however you want.  For example I have a group dedicated to games, where in Windows 7 each one of them would have had their own folder which is highly inconvenient when you just want to look at them and see what you want to play.  Notice my screen shot I have attached.  I have my office tiles separated, I have my games in a group, I have my media stuff (movies, pictures, music, and such) in a group.  All of this stuff would have had their own separate folder and would have been dug at least 2-4 clicks deep.

I am going to use 2 examples of launching programs that Windows 8 is better at doing.  If I wanted to launch Microsoft Word, with Windows 8 I click once it flips to desktop mode seamlessly and I’m working.  Windows 7 I will have to click 1 time to open the start menu and at best click 1 more time (if I have it pinned to my start menu) then it opens.  If I didn’t do that step then I would have to click 2 more times (once for all programs and another time for the Microsoft Office folder).

Next is World of Warcraft, which is one of the most popular games on the market today.  With Windows 8, once again it is one click away.  Windows 7 is the same story as before.  At best 2 click if I have it pinned, 4 clicks if it is not.  So inherently Windows 8 is BETTER (I want to make sure that word is understood "better".  People will say that’s your opinion and not everyone else’s, I got a clue for you fewer clicks is ALWAYS BETTER, no discussion.  You might like a worse way, yes but one way is better.  There is nothing wrong with having a preference for something that is inferior, but it doesn’t mean it makes it any less inferior) at opening applications and programs.

 

Another point people seem to not be in tune with is the charm menus.  This is because of 2 reasons I feel, one is people aren’t use to the mouse gestures and two people don’t understand them.  The charms are EXTREAMLY useful.  The search feature is SUPER powerful.  You type what you want to search, then click the application you want to search into.  For example if I want to check my latest Amazon order, I type "Amazon" and then click on "Mail" and I will see all my emails that are in relation to Amazon, intelligently sorted from newest to oldest.  Something that Windows 7 search cannot do at all might I add.  And if I don’t see it, I can just click on “Internet Explorer” and poof I get a web search for Amazon to see why I don’t have my email.  Windows 7 would require switching between several apps to get this done, with the search feature being in different locations, and usually using different options, to get the job done.  So the Search Charm is so much more unified in Windows 8 that it simplifies things.  Another screen shot has been attached.

Also the Share charm allows you to share whatever you’re looking at instantly with friends on social networks or via private messages like emails and other chat clients.  Something that has previously required developers to specially add that code into their websites or programs to do and usually it’s always in a different way.  Once again getting rid of all of the different ways to share something (sharing a YouTube video is different that a flicker photo simply because the share button is located at a different place on the screen) increases your capabilities and decreases your learning curve.

The Devices charm allows you to do TONS of great things, like print or send the audio or video source to a specific device, without having to go through (once again) different submenus.  You just go to your charms click on devices and your printer is there, your stereo is there, your TV and second screen options are there.

And for all of you advanced people, the settings option is there to change EVERYTHING, and once again, always in the same place and in the same way.  So finding the options menu for Internet Explorer is no different than that of the Pictures App, or the Mail App, or Netflix App…  I think you get where I am going.  Thus MAKING IT EASIER, and in the long term (as soon as developers get off their lazy asses) more powerful than ever before, because it will have more direct access to hardware and settings inside Windows.

 

But let’s address the first thing about the Charms, the gesture to get them to come up.  Some desktop users aren’t happy with having to “Mouse to..” a corner.  Well, let’s take a step back and look at this from a development point of view and I am even going to take it 1 step further.  Let’s start with the Start Menu of Windows 7 again.  The default location (and according to Microsoft the location of about 97% of their users, remember how you allowed them to send statistics to them to better improve your experience?  Yea that is how they figure this stuff out.  Did you opt out?  Then you decided to give up “your right to vote” on features of new version of Windows) is in the lower left and corner.  And let’s be honest, you just throw your mouse down in the corner on Windows 7 then find the button, no one carefully and meticulously navigates their way to the lower left hand corner and even if you did its only like a half an inch more of a dragging of the mouse.  So, the point I’m getting to is, weren’t you just making a gesture to begin with in Windows 7?  So how weird is gestures anyways?  Want to close a program?  Don’t we have a natural tendency to just mouse up to the top and click the red “X”?  I hope I have made my point there.  And I think they realized that, and decided “Hey, we got 4 corners to work with, let’s use them!”  So gestures aren’t really that big of a issue.  But I can potentially give it to that 3% of the crowd that weren’t represented by the other 97%.

While we are here about the statistics stuff, I want to bring up the Start Menu vs Start Screen again.  Remember how I said I would discuss pinning of programs to Windows 7 Start Menu’s at a later point?  Well this is it.  Microsoft also reported 2 things with their statistics.  First about 60% of the people that use Windows 7, DID NOT use the pinning feature.  So they never, not once, pinned a program to their start menu.  Second of the remaining 40% they realized the average number of pinned programs is 7, with a quick list of 10.  That is 17 programs in your start menu.  I have tested this, and on a 1920x1080 screen, that takes up all but about 2 inches of the screen (top to bottom).  If you start to display submenus you QUICKLY take up over half your screen real estate with your Start Menu.  Well, part of the whole screen being a Start Screen in Windows 8, is simply because the Windows 7 Start Menu (when used to its fullest) took up half the screen anyways!  So it is only logical for them to do a FULL Start Screen.

 

And the last thing I am going to directly address, that I believe people have a problem with, is the Apps.  Everyone makes fun of Steve Ballmer and his “Developers, developers, developers…” trip out, but he couldn’t be truer.  Windows is here today, because of 3^rd party programs.  And if people writing the apps don’t make use of the features of Windows 8, it becomes pointless quickly.  Let’s go back to some of my charms comparisons, like searching.  This is, by far, the most time cutting feature of Windows 8.  You can search “Miami, FL” and click on Bing and get suggestions from places to eat, and things to do.  Then click on Maps and get directions to there.  Then click on Mail and check if your booking went through for your next trip.  All these things are included in Windows.  But let’s talk about 3^rd party apps.  Like the American Airlines app.  What if you didn’t have a scheduled plan?  Is the app designed for you to search for a destination?  Is the app going to be smart enough to figure out how to use that feature?  It obviously would be GREAT for American Airlines if they did, because it would give you instant and easy results.  And if you was a frequent traveler, this would cut down A BUNCH on the time you spend looking for flights.  Or maybe you wanted to find a movie really quick on Netflix, does their app allow for it?  What about LinusTechTips?  Does it have an app so you can search the forum really quick?  If developers don’t take use of the features, it is just a useless waist of space.  And can Microsoft be to blame for that?  Especially when Visual Studios has a direct option when developing Windows 8 Apps to implement the charms into it (usually with a check box)?

 

In summary, I am TRULY under the impression that people don’t like Windows 8 because it is a change not because it is a worse OS.  I believe that most people are SOOO stuck in their ways they think they are using Windows 8 correctly, but in fact they are just using it like a glorified version of Windows 7 and not really taking advantage of Windows 8.  Now I don’t know if this is a lack of training on Microsoft’s part, or if it’s just because people are so stubborn and unwilling to learn.

 

Thanks for reading this (essay honestly) post in its entirety, and please comment!  I want to know what people really think.  But once again, I don’t want hate mail or anything, I want genuine concerns about why Windows 8 is inferior to Windows 7 or any other version of Windows for that matter.  Please give examples.  Like if you think xxx is better in Windows 7 show me how it is.

[Volbet]

First of all I don't think you can delete our posts on this thread.

 

To the topic.

I personally really like Windows 8 and I am using it on 3/4 of the PCs in my house. The points you are making are all valid, but fails to see some points. The Modern UI is a very good system interface, but it takes you away from the desktop. When I'm in Modern UI I am not able to access my taskbar, and I find the program switching in Modern UI to be clumsy with a mouse and keyboard. 

The point about the search function. I personally find that the search function in some ways is a step back. For example if I search for "printer" I don't get any results. This is because I need to activly chose to search in Settings insted of in Apps. In Windows 7 it would search every thing automaticly. 

The probelm with the "start button". The thing is that some people are running a multi monitor setup and have the task bar in the middle. This makes it inconvenient to find the activation point for the Modern UI interface. Becasue you will, more often then not, move your cursor to your left screen rather then clicking the "start button". 

[felixbearpig]

honeslty i stopped reading after "the topic on hand" paragraph but i completly agree with you and i just cant stand people who bash it for no real reason, yeah the tiles are are the "problem" but its new, i want to tell them to give it a chance. it was a learning curve for me because i went full time on osx to gameing on windows 8. 

[hehehehhehehehe]

First of all I don't think you can delete our posts on this thread.

 

To the topic.

I personally really like Windows 8 and I am using it on 3/4 of the PCs in my house. The points you are making are all valid, but fails to see some points. The Modern UI is a very good system interface, but it takes you away from the desktop. When I'm in Modern UI I am not able to access my taskbar, and I find the program switching in Modern UI to be clumsy with a mouse and keyboard. 

The point about the search function. I personally find that the search function in some ways is a step back. For example if I search for "printer" I don't get any results. This is because I need to activly chose to search in Settings insted of in Apps. In Windows 7 it would search every thing automaticly. 

The probelm with the "start button". The thing is that some people are running a multi monitor setup and have the task bar in the middle. This makes it inconvenient to find the activation point for the Modern UI interface. Becasue you will, more often then not, move your cursor to your left screen rather then clicking the "start button". 

Your issues with the search feature have been fixed in Windows 8.1

[Volbet]

Your issues with the search feature have been fixed in Windows 8.1

I know, but the problem is still present untill the official release. I actually forgot to put that part in my first post

[hehehehhehehehe]

I know, but the problem is still present untill the official releas. I actually forgot to pu that part in my first post

Yeah, point taken but it is still coming at least..

[JefferyD90]

First of all I don't think you can delete our posts on this thread.

 

To the topic.

I personally really like Windows 8 and I am using it on 3/4 of the PCs in my house. The points you are making are all valid, but fails to see some points. The Modern UI is a very good system interface, but it takes you away from the desktop. When I'm in Modern UI I am not able to access my taskbar, and I find the program switching in Modern UI to be clumsy with a mouse and keyboard. 

The point about the search function. I personally find that the search function in some ways is a step back. For example if I search for "printer" I don't get any results. This is because I need to activly chose to search in Settings insted of in Apps. In Windows 7 it would search every thing automaticly. 

The probelm with the "start button". The thing is that some people are running a multi monitor setup and have the task bar in the middle. This makes it inconvenient to find the activation point for the Modern UI interface. Becasue you will, more often then not, move your cursor to your left screen rather then clicking the "start button". 

Very good post, and I can report it and request that it be removed.

 

Can you please give some examples of "clumsy" when switching between the Windows 8 Start Screen and the desktop?

 

I can see where you come from regarding the search feature, but it is null and void.  When you searched using Windows 7 you had to click 1 time to open the Start Menu.  With Windows 8 you just start typing to begin with, then you click settings.  You type the same ammount of characters and then you still click once.  This is just a change, it is neither better nor worse, just a change.  SO with that in mind, I dont really count this as a issue, its just change.

 

I can somewhat agree with the multi monitor setup.  And wont necessarilty argue the point.  Although to play devils avociate, it does snap to the corners and requires quite a bit of force to move off, but I do see where you are coming from.  GREAT POST!!!

[JefferyD90]

Another point I want to make, that I didnt include specifically because my post is so long:

 

With Windows it hasnt really changed since Windows 95.  So that is almost 18 years with the same basic outline.  No other software has remained so true for that long.  And honestly, how are we suppose to move forward in life and technology if the same UI and expierence is holding us back?  The change had to happen at some point is what I am trying to say.  Just like with Vista, the security issues in Windows XP had to be addressed on a more basic level, thus Vista.  It took about 2 service packs worth of time before developers wanted to code their stuff right so it would work in Vista.  Vista really didnt change a whole lot from launch to end of SP2, it was the programs that was made for it.  So in closure Vista had to happen so we could have Windows 7.  And Windows 8 has to happen for us to move forward in life.

 

And I want to reitterate my point about people using Windows 8 like a glorified version of Windows 7.  If you start your PC and automatically click on the Desktop tile then your doing it wrong and honestly should have just got Windows 7.

[Volbet]

Very good post, and I can report it and request that it be removed.

 

Can you please give some examples of "clumsy" when switching between the Windows 8 Start Screen and the desktop?

 

I can see where you come from regarding the search feature, but it is null and void.  When you searched using Windows 7 you had to click 1 time to open the Start Menu.  With Windows 8 you just start typing to begin with, then you click settings.  You type the same ammount of characters and then you still click once.  This is just a change, it is neither better nor worse, just a change.  SO with that in mind, I dont really count this as a issue, its just change.

 

I can somewhat agree with the multi monitor setup.  And wont necessarilty argue the point.  Although to play devils avociate, it does snap to the corners and requires quite a bit of force to move off, but I do see where you are coming from.  GREAT POST!!!

Well, my problem with Modern Ui is more of a nit pick then anything else, and I don't have a problem per say. What I mean when I say that the multitasking is clumsy Is that if I have a program like Photoshop with functions in the left side of the screen, I risk activating the "taskbar" and then I have to weit for it to go away to access those functions. .

 

Lastly a lot of the problems that I have with Windows 8 have been addressed with Windows 8.1. And I am sure that a lot more problems that i'm not aware of will also be fixed.  

[JefferyD90]

Well, my problem with Modern Ui is more of a nit pick then anything else, and I don't have a problem per say. What I mean when I say that the multitasking is clumsy Is that if I have a program like Photoshop with functions in the left side of the screen, I risk activating the "taskbar" and then I have to weit for it to go away to access those functions. .

 

Lastly a lot of the problems that I have with Windows 8 have been addressed with Windows 8.1. And I am sure that a lot more problems that i'm not aware of will also be fixed.  

Okay, this is a wonderful example.  I am assuming your talking about activating the quick list of all the recient apps you had open on your machine.  I appriciate the comment and I will take this as point number 1 to not like Windows 8.  Thank you!

 

Anyone else?

[tacticalpanic]

My biggest problem is that the modern UI feels like a different OS to the desktop, the apps don't work as well as desktop programs when using a desktop computer.  The windows 8 desktop I don't really have any complaints , its smooth and quick , the OS itself feels stable.

 

I feel there's no benefit to windows 8 on a desktop that windows 7 does not already give me, 7 is also more mature at this stage with better software and driver support, as for charms , its just another clunky add-on for those of us that use multiple monitors.

[JefferyD90]

My biggest problem is that the modern UI feels like a different OS to the desktop, the apps don't work as well as desktop programs when using a desktop computer.  The windows 8 desktop I don't really have any complaints , its smooth and quick , the OS itself feels stable.

 

I feel there's no benefit to windows 8 on a desktop that windows 7 does not already give me, 7 is also more mature at this stage with better software and driver support, as for charms , its just another clunky add-on for those of us that use multiple monitors.

 

Thanks for the feed back, but give us some examples?  Why don't the apps work as well?  And who is really at fault, is it Microsoft or is it the developers?

 

And the fact that you feel like Windows 8 is no different than Windows 7 tells me you are still using Windows 8 like Windows 7.  I have previously outlined that you can not use Windows 8 like a different OS, it is Windows 8 and should be used as such.

 

Give me some examples of what exactly feels different and such.  Thanks for the response!!!

[Slick]

My main 3 -

 

Slower experience through more clicks in some situations

Losing monitoring ability of windows while utilizing new start menu features

Permissions issues

 

I see no major benefit to changing - I am very comfortable in windows 7 and see no reason to fight with windows 8

[Whiskers]

My main 3 -

 

Slower experience through more clicks in some situations

Losing monitoring ability of windows while utilizing new start menu features

Permissions issues

 

I see no major benefit to changing - I am very comfortable in windows 7 and see no reason to fight with windows 8

 

Indeed.

 

You can modify it with third party programs to work well, yes. But why bother if you can get Windows 7 for a cheaper price which it works out of the box without the need for such programs?

 

My gaming build I'm working on at the moment will have Windows 7 installed. Until Windows 8 is improved sufficiently in its default state I see no need to 'upgrade'.

[GoodBytes]

I disagree. I face with less click using Modern UI. Shorter distance to travel, and while I do sometimes have longer travels, I would spend less time search for what I am looking for.

No one monitors something so critical when you navigate the Start Menu. I would argue that even if you operate a Nuclear Power Plant, you have can 'not look' at the measurements of what you are monitoring.

[Whiskers]

I disagree. I face with less click using Modern UI. Shorter distance to travel, and while I do sometimes have longer travels, I would spend less time search for what I am looking for.

No one monitors something so critical when you navigate the Start Menu. I would argue that even if you operate a Nuclear Power Plant, you have can 'not look' at the measurements of what you are monitoring.

 

I do not appreciate being ripped away from my work when I wish to switch programs. I also prefer a list of programs to a grid of random icons as it makes it much faster and easier to quickly ascertain what is what.

 

Even Samsung understood the necessity for the app-switching interface to not get in the way so as to make multitasking a smooth experience on their Galaxy Note devices. If I am working in S-Note and need the calculator all I need to do is press a button at the bottom of my screen which provides me with a small and unobtrusive interface to quickly switch between or open up another application. On Windows 8 I'm suddenly and violently thrown into a completely different world when I wish to switch apps.

 

It would be improved if they would at least provide us with a small pop-up Start Menu with the Modern UI style which suggests possibly relevant programs for what we are doing, or even displays our top 10 or so most frequently used programs. It would be more efficient, less interruptive and just.. better.

[Sneaky]

My main 3 -

 

Slower experience through more clicks in some situations

Losing monitoring ability of windows while utilizing new start menu features

Permissions issues

 

I see no major benefit to changing - I am very comfortable in windows 7 and see no reason to fight with windows 8

 

The slower experience in more clicks is completely wrong in my opinion, I find it just as fast to use Windows 8 as I did with Windows 7, and I've not had a single issue with Windows 8 and have been using it since it was released.

[GoodBytes]

I do not appreciate being ripped away from my work when I wish to switch programs. I also prefer a list of programs to a grid of random icons as it makes it much faster and easier to quickly ascertain what is what.

 

Even Samsung understood the necessity for the app-switching interface to not get in the way so as to make multitasking a smooth experience on their Galaxy Note devices. If I am working in S-Note and need the calculator all I need to do is press a button at the bottom of my screen which provides me with a small and unobtrusive interface to quickly switch between or open up another application. On Windows 8 I'm suddenly and violently thrown into a completely different world when I wish to switch apps.

 

It would be improved if they would at least provide us with a small pop-up Start Menu with the Modern UI style which suggests possibly relevant programs for what we are doing, or even displays our top 10 or so most frequently used programs. It would be more efficient, less interruptive and just.. better.

Long ago, I proposed to develop a start menu that was popping up on the of the screen, when you click on the Start button, like the network panel, but on the left, and with a search box at the bottom, and at a top some arrow button indicating to go to the full Start Screen, in the case you want. I had mockup pictures and everything, and fully open to any suggestions where at all conflicts I'll would put it as an option. No one was interested. People said that they wanted the Start Menu, and nothing else. This has showed me that people are so stuck, unwilling to even look at something different.

 

So I didn't waste any time, and didn't develop it. So, in conclusion, I based on my experience, no mater what Microsoft would have done for Windows 8, people will still whine. And people freak out for even a default background change. And it flashed me back, on how people hated the Vista icons, because the orientation of the 3D wasn't to their taste. I mean come on! Now it's too late, I don't have time anymore for this.

 

So don't say that Microsoft should have compromised, because we would be in the same boat as now.

[rashdanml]

I tried it on a touchscreen (X1 Carbon touch). Felt far more intuitive than mouse and keyboard (although didn't have a mouse besides the trackpoint/trackpad to use with it). 

[jprovido]

windows 8 just feels wrong. and fyi I bought one. tried it. really gave it a chance but after a few weeks I just can't stand it and went back to windows 7

[supaginge]

I would use windows 8 if i could get a good start menu and have an option to totally disable this so called "modern ui"

I can get the start menu but im unsure off the ui any help/ideas

[Whiskers]

-Snip-

 

They have compromised.

 

One Interface To Rule Them All.

 

In reality, it doesn't work. Common sense says it doesn't work. You can't take a square peg and expect to fit it perfectly into a round hole, a triangular hole and a rectangular hole.

 

Your idea sounds decent to me. But you ought to consider that many people don't want change right now because they've already faced such sudden change with Windows 8. Give them time to calm down and explain the benefits of your proposal and I'm quite sure they will see the light.

[supaginge]

The one thing that has personally bugged me about Windows 8 is how little the colors contrast on the scroll bar. Who's idea was it to make it light grey/white? On a larger screen it's hard to tell where the scroll bar is without specifically looking for the handle on the bar.

Seriously, what is this shit:

http://i.imgur.com/1q5PmV7.png

Did microsoft actually do anything right when making windows 8?

[twod]

I've been using Windows since Jan. At first it took me took me a bit to get use to it, but got over the differences. Like no start menu, to me personally wasn't a big deal because all the programs I use often I just pin them to the modern UI and use those for accessing my programs rather than gliding way through folders in the start menu. I do also have shortcuts on my desktop as well. I found it quicker that way. also if I'm looking for a program that i have and don't use a lot i just use the search field in the modern UI. All you do is just go to modern UI and just start typing to find what you want, works for the most part. Comparing Win7 to Win8 I haven't had any complaints.

[kajan]

I think the start menu isn't big enough to fit all the programs I frequently use and when I do use the start menu in 7, I am not looking at anything else other than the start menu, so the rest of my screen real estate is just gone to waste. With 8.1 and the smaller tiles I think it's a lot easier to open programs more quickly rather scrolling up and down a menu.