Windows 8 Flack

[SpenceSouth]

Let me ask you what exactly makes the Windows 8 Start Screen not play well with a mouse?  The icon are roughly only 10% larger than a icon was, and they work just like icons did.  So what really makes it not work with a mouse?

 

Great point on the hidden options (first time someone has mentioned this).  Do you think this maybe could be resolved by a small 5 minute video/app, or something show what is there and how to use it?

 

One of the best post yet!!!

 

Not sure it would be wise to try and resolve it with a video.  As a developer I try to make all my software as intuitive as possible; as it is a design standard.  Ideally, I dont want any users to not know how to use my app.  At least, they should have a reasonable hunch on how to do certain things.  The real pain with the three different hidden menus is that it isn't well defined which hidden menu gives you access to what.  For example, I've gotten to app account settings by swiping right from the charms and also by swiping the bottom menu up.  There needs to be a little consistency with it. Not sure Microsoft has aided developers by defining a clear guideline for the uses of these menus, or even within their own respective departments. 

For the mouse, I feel that I am constantly move the mouse back and forth all across the screen.  That might seem a bit picky, but it definitely makes the PC feel slow and cumbersome when you consider how quickly the modern UI is to navigate on my surface.  To be blunt, that interface really wasn't designed with a mouse in mind and it shows.  I don't envy their position of trying to blend the touch/tablet world with the mouse/PC world, as it's an extremely bold undertaking.  

[GoodBytes]

 

For the other two complaints I also agree. My only issue with windows 8 is how the start menu (while good) feels separate from the desktop. Whenever i switch to it I feel as if i am going into some app that controls all my things because the two are so different. I think MIcrosoft needs to bridge the gap between the start menu and desktop. One suggestion would be to make the menu have a transparent background (BRING BACK AERO!) or as i believe it will be in 8.1, have the same background. Another thing would be to make the gestures different for the mouse, for example not having to drag down an app to close it - why not have the 3 boxes like on desktop? On the flip side, also make the desktop more touch friendly so it can be used with touch enabled devices. Whenever i am in the start menu or an app, i feel compelled to use touch gestures and when i am in the desktop i feel compelled to use the mouse+keyboard. Fix this and windows 8 will be great.

 

Yup. It's there in Windows 8.1

Also, as you know in Windows 8, you can do Ctrl+Tab on the Start Screen, (or right-click on empty space, and select All Apps), you have a full list of programs, in a list form. Well, in Windows 8.1 you'll have the option to get that directly, when you press the Start Button.

 

The reason why you don't have the 3 boxes on Modern UI apps, is for accidental pressed on a touch screen device.

[JefferyD90]

I like Windows 8 and support your argument. I think the start menu is more effective in accessing my programs than windows 7. And for those that do not like the search functionality in windows 8, 8.1 is changing it. I also believe that people are stubborn and unwilling to change. Currently the reason Microsoft is doing poorly in Windows 8 (and also RT and Phone 8) is support. Not many people are updating their programs to fully utilize the new features as u suggested.

 

As for Slick's complaints; I'm not a very big 'power user' (nor are most people) and so i don't have an issue with permissions (or know what is wrong with them).

 

For the other two complaints I also agree. My only issue with windows 8 is how the start menu (while good) feels separate from the desktop. Whenever i switch to it I feel as if i am going into some app that controls all my things because the two are so different. I think MIcrosoft needs to bridge the gap between the start menu and desktop. One suggestion would be to make the menu have a transparent background (BRING BACK AERO!) or as i believe it will be in 8.1, have the same background. Another thing would be to make the gestures different for the mouse, for example not having to drag down an app to close it - why not have the 3 boxes like on desktop? On the flip side, also make the desktop more touch friendly so it can be used with touch enabled devices. Whenever i am in the start menu or an app, i feel compelled to use touch gestures and when i am in the desktop i feel compelled to use the mouse+keyboard. Fix this and windows 8 will be great.

The transparent backgroud is going to happen this October.  This was one of the best writen responces thus far.  Thanks for the advice and thought put into this!

 

And PS I totally agree, I think its more of the "Developers, Developers, Developers" than it is Microsoft.

 

GREAT POST!!!

[GoodBytes]

For the mouse, I feel that I am constantly move the mouse back and forth all across the screen.  That might seem a bit picky, but it definitely makes the PC feel slow and cumbersome when you consider how quickly the modern UI is to navigate on my surface.  To be blunt, that interface really wasn't designed with a mouse in mind and it shows.  I don't envy their position of trying to blend the touch/tablet world with the mouse/PC world, as it's an extremely bold undertaking.  

 

You are not suppose to. Check my previous post on how you are suppose to set up the layout of the Start Screen.

[SpenceSouth]

Did you read what Microsoft recommends:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx

 

As an example of it being applied, here is my start screen:

Why my apps are on the far right... because the ones I use the most are pinned on the Task Bar, much like my setup in Win7.

 

 

 

I am sorry, but I PERFECTLY see the scroll bars. I think you should invest in a better monitor, my good man. Have you looked into IPS panels?

I have a monitor guide here: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=218867

 

 

 

It's funny, because this was Windows 8 in development:

 

As you can see, transparency was there. But people complained about how it was not fitting the desktop. And the internet blasted Microsoft with many concept on what to adopt.

While Microsoft was impressed with many designed, the best they could do, is what we have now, because it would break software compatibility (also, it was a bit of a last minute change for Microsoft. I am sure it COULD be done, but it was only a few month before RTM deadline. So they could not take the chance, let alone time)

 

So if you don't like it, next time, participate ion the beta, and provide constructive feedback, like people that didn't like it.

As for the problem you are facing, I am puzzled by it. You are replacing system files, with hacked up files, and complain why it causes issues... well obviously!

 

 1- Open Group Policy (Start > type: gpedit.msc > Enter)

 2- Go to: Configuration > Administrative Templates > Control Panel > Personalization

 3- Set Do not display the lock screen, to Enabled. You may require to restart your computer, if you don't see the changes now.

 

If you don't have Windows 8 Pro, you don't have group policy, you need to figure out the registry hack for it. I don't know what it is from the top of my head, but I am sure you can Google it.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

How do you know that non tech savvy people have problem. I already build 3 PCs to non-teck savy people, and before I even showed them Windows 8 at first boot up, they figured out. I asked, and they were like: "Oh yea, you right, the button isn't there. I just did it instinctively." Or something along those line. The 2 people I build are in the 50's, and third one was 67 years old.

Don't underestimate non tech savvy people, they aren't idiots.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm certainly not saying that anyone is an idiot for not being tech savvy.  I don't expect everyone to be comfortable enough with computers to confidently navigate Windows 8.  I've introduced quite a few people to it, and many have been very uncomfortable with it, which is quite understandable considering Microsoft's departure from the traditional Windows Start menu and the introduction to the Modern UI. 

People have different experience levels when it comes to technology and some will adapt better than others.  It was just my hope that Microsoft would have acknowledged that a little more. 

[JefferyD90]

Did you read what Microsoft recommends:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx

 

As an example of it being applied, here is my start screen:

Why my apps are on the far right... because the ones I use the most are pinned on the Task Bar, much like my setup in Win7.

 

 

 

I am sorry, but I PERFECTLY see the scroll bars. I think you should invest in a better monitor, my good man. Have you looked into IPS panels?

I have a monitor guide here: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=218867

 

 

 

It's funny, because this was Windows 8 in development:

 

As you can see, transparency was there. But people complained about how it was not fitting the desktop. And the internet blasted Microsoft with many concept on what to adopt.

While Microsoft was impressed with many designed, the best they could do, is what we have now, because it would break software compatibility (also, it was a bit of a last minute change for Microsoft. I am sure it COULD be done, but it was only a few month before RTM deadline. So they could not take the chance, let alone time)

 

So if you don't like it, next time, participate ion the beta, and provide constructive feedback, like people that didn't like it.

As for the problem you are facing, I am puzzled by it. You are replacing system files, with hacked up files, and complain why it causes issues... well obviously!

 

 1- Open Group Policy (Start > type: gpedit.msc > Enter)

 2- Go to: Configuration > Administrative Templates > Control Panel > Personalization

 3- Set Do not display the lock screen, to Enabled. You may require to restart your computer, if you don't see the changes now.

 

If you don't have Windows 8 Pro, you don't have group policy, you need to figure out the registry hack for it. I don't know what it is from the top of my head, but I am sure you can Google it.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

How do you know that non tech savvy people have problem. I already build 3 PCs to non-teck savy people, and before I even showed them Windows 8 at first boot up, they figured out. I asked, and they were like: "Oh yea, you right, the button isn't there. I just did it instinctively." Or something along those line. The 2 people I build are in the 50's, and third one was 67 years old.

Don't underestimate non tech savvy people, they aren't idiots.

Very good points you made out (I hope you meant them nicer than they came across!  /hugs for everyone!!!)

 

This is another thing I wanted to bring up, but didnt have the room to.  A lot of people are use to changing Windows' core files (thanks XP) to do whatever they want to do, but people dont realize that you shouldnt be doing that!!! lol.   If you change a core file, there is no telling what needs to be changed back!

[Lamb]

This is a wonderful example, and thanks for pointing it out.  First off I want to ask (dont take this as a insult, a lot of people just dont know) did you know that you can have 2 Windows 8 Apps open at the same time?  Check the attacked photo.  And then you can also use the quick access (point your curser to top left hand corner) to pull up another application that you got running in the background!  And as far as doing 3 things at once (even tho I dont know how you plan on paying attention to 3 things at once) Windows 8.1 fixes that.

 

But it is a totally valid example.  Once again do you think showing a tutorial video or app or something might help with this adjustment?

 

Yes, I was aware of this, I just prefer using it on the desktop. I might try switching to the modern UI soon though. Also, StartisBack gives you an option to have your taskbar while on the start menu. So it isn't just a start menu. While I don't use this feature often, it is nice to have. Just throwing that out there.  

[GoodBytes]

They are more Windows 8 users than OSX

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/windows-8-more-widely-used-than-os-x-ie-still-on-the-rise/

 

 

 

And IE market share continues to rise (which is a bit expected, Microsoft did massive improvement on that web browser. IE11 is even more promising. Microsoft needs to continue with it. I doubt it will have the amount of features that Firefox and Chrome have. But at least it will be a solid and safe web browser to use. Basically, changing to: IE -> Not Bad, and Chorme/Firefox/Opera -> Very Good)

 

(more graphs on link)

[JefferyD90]

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm certainly not saying that anyone is an idiot for not being tech savvy.  I don't expect everyone to be comfortable enough with computers to confidently navigate Windows 8.  I've introduced quite a few people to it, and many have been very uncomfortable with it, which is quite understandable considering Microsoft's departure from the traditional Windows Start menu and the introduction to the Modern UI. 

People have different experience levels when it comes to technology and some will adapt better than others.  It was just my hope that Microsoft would have acknowledged that a little more. 

You do know that most people have a easier time with Windows 8 if its their first computer right?  Almost everyone agrees with that point.

[JefferyD90]

Yes, I was aware of this, I just prefer using it on the desktop. I might try switching to the modern UI soon though. Also, StartisBack gives you an option to have your taskbar while on the start menu. So it isn't just a start menu. While I don't use this feature often, it is nice to have. Just throwing that out there.

I can not, under and circumstance agree with using a 3rd party start menu.  Just switch to Windows 7 if you are doing that.  (its a total pet peve of mine, thousands of people spent countless hours coming up with Windows 8 and no telling how many were directly involved with the Start Screen and I just find it a HUGE slap in the face with some donkey ba**s to completly ignore their hard work even if you dont like it.)

[SpenceSouth]

You do know that most people have a easier time with Windows 8 if its their first computer right?  Almost everyone agrees with that point.

 

I'd believe that, but it serves my point as well.  Some people have learned to interact with Windows and will have trouble transitioning.  I'm not saying Windows 8 is horrible or anything like that.... I actually really like it myself and have Windows 8.1 on my desktop, laptop, and Surface, but it's part of understanding the consumer to accept that many might not like seeing such a big change so quickly.  It'll take time for everyone to catch on and learn to like it.  

A change this big comes with a small learning curve.

[JefferyD90]

I'd believe that, but it serves my point as well.  Some people have learned to interact with Windows and will have trouble transitioning.  I'm not saying Windows 8 is horrible or anything like that.... I actually really like it myself and have Windows 8.1 on my desktop, laptop, and Surface, but it's part of understanding the consumer to accept that many might not like seeing such a big change so quickly.  It'll take time for everyone to catch on and learn to like it.  

A change this big comes with a small learning curve.

Which is what this whole post is about.  Honestly Windows 8 is (in almost if not all) in many ways much better than Windows 7 could have ever hoped to have been.  And I really think the BIGGEST mistake of Microsoft is they didnt give a good learning video.  Just a small app or something I think could have went a long way in helping people adjust.

[ha1o2surfer]

I bought a Macbook a few weeks ago thinking I could learn both OSes and stay up to date on both trends. I found myself using Windows 8 99.9% of the time because it just seemed to be more smooth then Mountain Lion. Here are a few points I can say on the topic of Windows 8.

 

First thing is the UI, I think Microsoft went backwards in their design but I think it may be because they are pushing the Modern UI. Things are just more square and less rounded like Windows and Vista used to be. I personally like the design more but as a "tablet OS" they could have made the desktop a little bit easier to use (in tablet mode) I use Windows 8 in desktop mode for the most part so I may not be qualified to state my opinion as much. Besides that, the UI does feel snappier when browsing large folders with lots of files or folders with heavy Media in them. so I am not complaining at all.

 

Second thing is the hybrid startup. This feature is really amazing. The amount of work it takes to make an OS compatible with potentially hundred of thousands of hardware configurations makes this feature really stand out. I can tell they did a lot of work to make this feature seamless while working with older apps. I guess it's really called a hybrid hibernation since it only keeps OS services and drivers saved but re runs all user profile services + apps. I love this feature, TLDR lol

 

Third thing is the driver support. This isn't backed by any hard facts but I feels drivers are written for Windows 8 feel more stable, even after Windows 7. Drivers that do not work for my odd devices such as TV tuners or CD/DVD Duplicators just work whereas in Windows 7, they are extremely flaky. 

 

I use Windows 8 on all my laptops to my desktop replacement laptop (W110ER) to a Little netbook with 1.5GB of ram. They all work perfectly and I would recommend it. There is nothing wrong with Windows 7 but Windows 8 does feel like an upgrade...

[Lyons]

Which is what this whole post is about.  Honestly Windows 8 is (in almost if not all) in many ways much better than Windows 7 could have ever hoped to have been.  And I really think the BIGGEST mistake of Microsoft is they didnt give a good learning video.  Just a small app or something I think could have went a long way in helping people adjust.

 

It has one when you first start up... if you skip it it's your fault.

[jetbuster]

the whole thread has just confirmed my feelings which is that I'll start suggesting windows 8 to people as of windows 8.1 which fixes all the common sense problems

 

It has one when you first start up... if you skip it it's your fault.

Yeah, I thought it was an interactive tutorial but it was an animated images while it was loading.. so they lose points for that

[TheSLSAMG]

You can't delete our comments.

 

I use Windows 8 on my computer everyday. I like the UI in some ways, but I am always in the desktop environment. Metro doesn't work well for me without a touchscreen, and desktop is annoying with a touchscreen. Windows 8 was a big mistake because the UI is just way to biforcated. I remember when Linus and Slick were talking about the perfect Windows 9 on the WAN Show. What MS should have done was offer 2 versions. 1 which is just Metro (like RT with no desktop) and one which is just Desktop (like Windows 7 but with some UI tweaks.) One of the things with Windows 8 that really annoys me is how there are many features missing, and doing something that sounds as simple as putting a shortcut on the desktop has become way more difficult. Some days, I regret buying Windows 8 because of the stuff that is missing or buried deep (backup, restore, etc.) I don't like the tight integration with Windows Live and how I can't just change my password for example without having to jump through Metro hoops. I know I am not "taking advantage" of the Windows 8 features, but the reason I got it was because of the support cycle. The fact is, Windows 7 and XP are still the dominant OSes, and with the fragmentation between user interfaces on Windows 8, that probably won't change anytime soon. One of the big things they need to do is bring the Start Menu back. And before anyone asks, I am running 8 and 8.1.

 

One more thing. You're not going to censor out our personal opinions.

[criso8]

I have never used it win 8 with a touchscreen. I got start is back and  I don't care that its windows 8. I think microsoft could have not wasted all of those resources trying to develop all the touch features.

 

I have seen the average user use win 8 however. They were jumping back and forth from the desktop to metro. It literally looked like an awful experience and very cumbersome.

[GoodBytes]

You can't delete our comments.

 

I use Windows 8 on my computer everyday. I like the UI in some ways, but I am always in the desktop environment. Metro doesn't work well for me without a touchscreen, and desktop is annoying with a touchscreen. Windows 8 was a big mistake because the UI is just way to biforcated. I remember when Linus and Slick were talking about the perfect Windows 9 on the WAN Show. What MS should have done was offer 2 versions. 1 which is just Metro (like RT with no desktop) and one which is just Desktop (like Windows 7 but with some UI tweaks.) One of the things with Windows 8 that really annoys me is how there are many features missing, and doing something that sounds as simple as putting a shortcut on the desktop has become way more difficult. Some days, I regret buying Windows 8 because of the stuff that is missing or buried deep (backup, restore, etc.) I don't like the tight integration with Windows Live and how I can't just change my password for example without having to jump through Metro hoops. I know I am not "taking advantage" of the Windows 8 features, but the reason I got it was because of the support cycle. The fact is, Windows 7 and XP are still the dominant OSes, and with the fragmentation between user interfaces on Windows 8, that probably won't change anytime soon. One of the big things they need to do is bring the Start Menu back. And before anyone asks, I am running 8 and 8.1.

 

One more thing. You're not going to censor out our personal opinions.

 

But what do you do with tablets where you run a full Windows 8?

How about convertible one running Windows 8?

 

Or how about:

 

Which interface you put? Having the option will be a mess. Already XP with the 2 start menu's, was a HUGE mess in terms of support. You tell people to click somewhere, and they don't see it, and they don't know what is classic start menu or not. Some OEMs set the classic by default. It was a pain in the neck for everyone.

 

Desktop computer will evolve, where touch and digitize pen will compliment the keyboard and mouse. Wacom gets the idea, with it's new line of products; Cintiq

 

I think this will be the monitors for desktop computers. Just much cheaper version ( no need 2048 pressure sensitive digitize pen support, and professional grade IPS panel, which is what makes product expensive. The side buttons can also be removed )

[TheSLSAMG]

Which interface you put? Having the option will be a mess. Already XP with the 2 start menu's, was a HUGE mess in terms of support. You tell people to click somewhere, and they don't see it, and they don't know what is classic start menu or not. Some OEMs set the classic by default. It was a pain in the neck for everyone.

 

Yeah, that would suck especially for IT people. And I have seen the new Cintiq. They really do get it.

[mememo]

I tryed windows 8 for about 2 months and just could not get used to it overall i cant really point to one really big reason why i hated it but there were countless small ones over all it feels like change for the sake of change rather than function . This is just my personal opinion but 8 feels like something designed by the marketing department rather than the IT department while its good for the casual user its a curse if you have to run multiple programs that fetch files from different folders or storage media

[JefferyD90]

It has one when you first start up... if you skip it it's your fault.

The little 20 second anamation that no one even bothers to see, lol.  Yea I know.  But OEM people dont get to see it, and most of your Retail installs dont either simply because people walk away from the machine.

[JefferyD90]

I tryed windows 8 for about 2 months and just could not get used to it overall i cant really point to one really big reason why i hated it but there were countless small ones over all it feels like change for the sake of change rather than function . This is just my personal opinion but 8 feels like something designed by the marketing department rather than the IT department while its good for the casual user its a curse if you have to run multiple programs that fetch files from different folders or storage media

Can you give me a example of fetching files from other locations?  I have a NAS, external USB HDD, and my local storage (also the cloud but not near as much) and I dont guess I notice anything flaky about it.  Give me a example or two please!

[akuusk1]

to all the people who are complaining about modern UI you can always use for example start is back http://www.startisback.com/

works as well as windows 7 start and you still have good features about windows 8

[Lyons]

The little 20 second anamation that no one even bothers to see, lol.  Yea I know.  But OEM people dont get to see it, and most of your Retail installs dont either simply because people walk away from the machine.

 

This is clearly (as you have said) a transitional stage. People know how to use Windows 7 because it worked like Vista, Which worked like XP, etc. This is a change, and people will get used to it. In 10 years we'll be saying the same thing about the new setup. People know how to use it because they're used to it 

[JefferyD90]

You can't delete our comments.

 

I use Windows 8 on my computer everyday. I like the UI in some ways, but I am always in the desktop environment. Metro doesn't work well for me without a touchscreen, and desktop is annoying with a touchscreen. Windows 8 was a big mistake because the UI is just way to biforcated. I remember when Linus and Slick were talking about the perfect Windows 9 on the WAN Show. What MS should have done was offer 2 versions. 1 which is just Metro (like RT with no desktop) and one which is just Desktop (like Windows 7 but with some UI tweaks.) One of the things with Windows 8 that really annoys me is how there are many features missing, and doing something that sounds as simple as putting a shortcut on the desktop has become way more difficult. Some days, I regret buying Windows 8 because of the stuff that is missing or buried deep (backup, restore, etc.) I don't like the tight integration with Windows Live and how I can't just change my password for example without having to jump through Metro hoops. I know I am not "taking advantage" of the Windows 8 features, but the reason I got it was because of the support cycle. The fact is, Windows 7 and XP are still the dominant OSes, and with the fragmentation between user interfaces on Windows 8, that probably won't change anytime soon. One of the big things they need to do is bring the Start Menu back. And before anyone asks, I am running 8 and 8.1.

 

One more thing. You're not going to censor out our personal opinions.

Well first off, I can report someone for being off topic.  And the topic is legitimate options.  And they can remove your post for being offtopic...

 

Second, this is rittled with very little facts.  Give us EXAMPLES.  Tell us in some way why Windows 8 doesnt work without a touch screen?

 

And why would they make a OS for different devices?  The whole purpose of Windows 8 and the one OS mentality is so you dont feel like its different moving from one environment to another.  So in making a whole new OS, it seems kinda pointless.  Backing up your data and stuff is as simple as using the search feature, and changing your password is just like it always has been, go to setting and change your password.

 

Everything you have pointed out isnt legitimate.