deceptive reviews and shoddy advertisement practices being cracked down on in youtube re Machinima/xbox 1

[Arty]

It just blows me away how these youtubers get free stuff where do I sign up...lol Now that is out of the way keep up the good work cause if you if haters that means your doing something right

big channels = lots of viewers

Lots of viewers = people

Companies like to get people to there product.

Simple marketing

 

weather linus gives a good or bad rewview 

 

The company gets attention. 

[DravinClaw]

I know how it works I was  just being sarcastic.

[Raver]

Life is short make the most of it instead of fighting about something you don't have all the information about... Turnip for life!

[TundraBF109]

I signed up to respond to this after seeing Linus post on Facebook.

I've been in an identical situation LMG/Linus is in right now. To preface my response, a quick background:

Like LMG, I helped run a similar online gaming/tech review website here in Canada (Calgary).  This was back in 1999-2000, long ago.  Our website was combatsim.com, which is largely just a resource site now, but back then, we were a powerhouse in the gaming industry, reviewing mostly flight/combat simulators which were very popular at the time (many boxed games sold millions in this genre back then, such as Falcon 4 and many, many others).  We had over 250,000 registered forum users, extremely active forums because of this, along with 1 million unique hosts per month, 40 million+hits, and terabytes of data transferred every month.  Remember, this was 15 years ago, and even now those are decent numbers IMO.

Due to our membership being the perfect target for add sales (18-55 with some $), we sold banner adds primarily for revenue, and did extremely well with this.  So well that we had a 15million IPO going until the dot.com meltdown happened.  5$k minimum for banner adds, from Mercedes Benz, all kinds of gaming/hardware companies at the time, and so on.

You can see some of the similarities of our business then with Linus now.  Basically LMG without youtube.  Articles instead of videos were the norm.  I was one of the first reviewers to make graphs showing fps comparisons in games between several vid cards/cpu combos, and it caught on quick, every site was doing it immediately.  Of course, companies would literally fight for the right to have things reviewed due to our large membership/views, and of course, like LMG now, mostly these products and games would be provided for free, and we could keep them.

We received some of the same criticisms then as LMG is getting now.  It's a paradox, a catch 22 which is impossible to bust out of IMO - being a business, you need revenue to survive  Much of this revenue comes from the companies who produce the products you review, either directly, or by youtube views now, and so on.  In my case we would be criticized when we gave a good review to a game which was running on our banner adds by a small but vocal part of our membership.  You simply can't win IMO.  As a reviewer of products which you keep, as well as generate revenue by supporting, you're in a precarious position in terms of being criticized, deservedly or not (I believe LMG to be pretty honest).

 The problem is, there is no way around this issue.  As Linus has said since we're in Canada, it's often more cost, particularly in time, to ship review items back.  I understand that if every product reviewed wasn't kept as a freebie, it would "look" like reviewers and sites were more impartial.   The simple fact is, it's virtually impossible to do this for the stated reasons.  You can either trust reviewers, or not.

Also, the simple fact is most products made are pretty decent these days.  It's very hard to find a complete POS product out there now, so it comes down to having to criticize very small issues, and compare products to peer products in order to have any frame of reference.  This results in reviews coming off as "always positive", which IMO again is a problem which is hard to solve, as most products are actually pretty functional these days.    Because of this, review channels/sites like LMG are unfairly vulnerable to being criticized for "always giving positive reviews", without any intention of doing so.

I think viewers need to accept this fact, and understand that while LMG may keep products, get deals, advertise with companies/vendors, that this is simply the nature of the beast, and without it, there would BE no LMB, no Jazy2cents, and so on.  These channels have great value still IMO, particularly when it comes to getting early information about new products, since due to their relationships with product/game creators, they get that kind of access.

I think this is a great question to ask - anyone who feels that LMG was "too easy" on a product or piece of software, point it out specifically, and post the exact complaint.  I feel that most if not all complaints would be easily defendable.

[JohnnyFALLEN]

In everything any of us does in our life we are after something. If you are helping out your community it's that feeling you are after or maybe a tax write off. If you are making videos on youtube it is to provide entertainment and informations to others while gaining an audiance. sponsorships + advertisements has allowed Linus to grow and make better content and review things he might not be able to otherwise. 

[TechDookie]

I'm new to this thread, and haven't read all the posts prior to my one, so I don't know this has been previously mentioned.

 

I have not seen an AMD GPU video in a long time on the channel. I mean that's all well and stuff, but then they include all these Nvidia GPU videos. What about the other 50% of us? But, then again, freedom of speech, their company, they decide.

 

I'm just a bit annoyed. Seems like LMG could've been "bought out". Especially now, that AMD GPUs come out on top of Nvidia GPUs with DirectX12.

 

What I want is facts. Technical stats. Explaining WHY. Not product sponsored crap. 

[LogicalDrm]

Really many people who made account just for this thread. Or say they don't come here often. Good or bad? Most forum veterans think its bad. I don't.

As of my general view over whole sponsored content thing. I think most people who are angry because LMG and other reviewers get free stuff, are younger people. Kids in schools or studying with parents supporting them. They can't have all they want and when someone lives their dreams out, they get annoyed. Well, when you enter real life with bills and family to support, you understand why sponsored/paid content and free stuff isn't that big of deal.

Lets start with free samples. LMG could sell them. But why go through the hassle? Anyone who has sold used stuff knows how time taking selling bigger amounts is. You get minimal amount back, have to negotiate about shipping and none of products will have any warranty (no purchase, no receipt). You get maybe 50-70% of retail price over several months. Not really what pays for employees, facilities etc.

Sponsored content and paid reviews. Sponsored content is clear thing. Every reviewer does it time to time. Why not, its easy money. And those are usually really clear things. And I personally just don't care. Usually sponsored stuff is even more boring than normal stuff. Paid reviews is interesting one. As none of us can't really say which review is paid and which isn't. Or can we? If reviewer gives minus points, its not? But what if paying company has told them to make it "sound more real". How you know which is paid and which isn't? Or are we just going to assume that every review ever is paid and compare which reviewer gets most money?

 

so you have never signed a marketing agreement with Intel? or Nvidia? EVER? or shaked a PR managers hand that  you will make a few videos in response for  all the product branding you have? 

the answer is of course you have. you wont admit it. because you think its none of our business. and you know you would be in hot water if you did.

This is really funny comment to me. Does it make company pay me just because I have shaked their representers hand when meeting at press event? Does it make me love some certain politician if I do same? Does signing sponsoring deal for some event mean that I need to be full on board rest of my life? Ofc it doesn't. Unless deal covers my whole life.

Another funny thing. Think of any athlete or esports player who wears logo or drinks from branded bottle. They get tons of money just wearing that stuff and mentioning sponsor on camera. With gamers its also their gear. They don't have to say how good that stuff is. And ofc its always good for them since its free and they get paid for saying that. Still you will believe them more because you know that they get paid for it?

[LinusTech]

I'm new to this thread, and haven't read all the posts prior to my one, so I don't know this has been previously mentioned.

I have not seen an AMD GPU video in a long time on the channel. I mean that's all well and stuff, but then they include all these Nvidia GPU videos. What about the other 50% of us? But, then again, freedom of speech, their company, they decide.

I'm just a bit annoyed. Seems like LMG could've been "bought out". Especially now, that AMD GPUs come out on top of Nvidia GPUs with DirectX12.

What I want is facts. Technical stats. Explaining WHY. Not product sponsored crap.

AMD has about 20% market share in the discrete GPU space..

We talk more about Nvidia products more for a number of reasons (including the one above) but sponsorship isn't one of them. We make more in a month in Google adsense than Nvidia has paid Linus Media Group in total. Ever.

Graphics cards here and there for workstations are nice but don't imagine NV is some big time LTT sponsor.

Last time I checked AMD has actually done more sponsorship with us total than Nvidia.

[SRoyce]

I won’t trust Linus until he overclocks a toaster…Everyone should overclock a toaster once and a while, if they don't they are not to be trusted...

Hey Mr Tech Tips, how about you overclock a toaster? Also, that video better be top and tailed with sponsored ads by your favourite bread company, and favourite butter company, with some delicious preserves mentioned throughout between. I need this video so as to be informed about which toaster to buy next, as my old busted Tesco Value piece of rubbish is too damn slow.

.

.

.

Seriously though, there are either a few trolls here or there are a lot of people here who seem to not know how the world and business works, but it is the same in any industry, can you make a game reviewer forget the review copy of the game they just played? Not any more than I can make a reviewer unread a copy of my book, neuralizers don’t exist. I’m not going to make people pay for my product, and I expect real and objective reviews regardless, otherwise I’ll get no consumer trust, ever. People get review stuff, period, so I always assume that any “established” reviewer gets free review copies, loaners or keepers makes little difference. And I think having to waste air time having them say it on a review is fruitless, people should know this already. Regardless, Linus and the team are seemingly pretty upfront about something if he feels it needs to be highlighted.

Practically nobody can just email a blog or review site/channel and say, 'can you please go and buy one of my “insert product here” and review it'. The site may choose to review something they have bought off their own initiative, but your shit out of luck if you don’t have a review copy and want a review, and even then, a review isn’t guaranteed.

Also I think all of the conjecture, assumption, and insinuation, can be harmful to a person’s business. Because even if unfounded as I believe it is, it can still put a seed of doubt in the uninitiated people’s minds, and as previously stated, business like LMG depend on audience trust.

Anyway, I for one am greatly entertained by this cheeky chappie and his merry cohorts, and have a salty trust in their reviews, I wanted to sign up to the forum pretty much just to say that, and maybe talk about toast a bit, I mean, who doesn't like toast? But at the same time I (as many of you no doubt are also) am a wage-earning, family-feeding, roof-over-my-head-keeping grown-up, and I don’t go and buy something just because Linus says so and neither should anyone else. Instead I cross-reference tech-reviews, check as many varied customer reviews as I can, check where the herd are going, and analyse the outliers, then check out all the bench-marking I can too. Then I make what is commonly known as an informed decision, I’ve two kids, I can’t be throwing money away, and PC hardware isn’t cheap, if people throw their money at stuff based on one person’s opinion, then they’re either rich enough to be careless with money or just plain silly. Don't get me wrong though, it's fair to say that LTT has become my first port of call over the years, and so far, even after a lot of further research I can often come back to his recommendations, and have yet to regret it when I do. 

TL;DR
I’m of the opinion that influencers like Linus tell it straight on where the best bang for buck lies, and want us to make the best choices for our budget, if they sold-out and peddled unsatisfactory wares, they’d have no following before very long. And yeah reviewers receive free review copies of stuff. Lots of stuff, I thought we all knew this already...

Yeah, um, I’m not sure that TL;DR really matched the diatribe above… Sorry

Anyhoo, Rawr, geif Toaster OC guide NOAW!

 

[Chris_R.]

So consider this:

 

I'm not hiding this stuff.

 

I.

Support.

Linus Sebastian.

And Linus Media Group.

@LinusTech

 

In my opinion they are the most trustworthy technology youtube channel out there....especially with their interactions {Human interactions} with their fans.

 

I know I probally speak for many here but I respect what Linus has to say and I do believe that his reviews are completely legit. Not only does he speak his mind on multiple topics of a review, but he advises very well the pros and cons of a product.

 

I will continue to support Linus Sebastian, LTT, TechQuicky, Channel Super Fun, and any other channels in the future because I truly believe in what they have accomplished and what they will accomplish in many years to come.

 

If you don't like the way Linus is......then why are you here?

[CydiaDash]

-snip-

You go girl...

[Lildirt]

Am I the only one who feels like this thread was completely derailed at some point?

[Chris_R.]

First.....It's not your company. So I would kindly suggest you stop speaking on 'how they should run things or disclose things'

 

 

actually its the opposite. the company paying or exchanging goods is controlling the reviews. and that essentially means, they aren't reviews. they are deceptive ads 

 

 

well we all know that apple dont give linus anything. but Nvidia and intel do. So how are we to know exactly where their loyalties lie. Its a huge disclosure issue. for people of influence 

 

 

Really. 
6 Titan X's is how much? Not to mention all the titan blacks, quadros, motherboards, Zeons, Hawell-E's All the stuff is given to them. and its a huge issue. he probably has 1 million bucks worth of inventory in excahnge for the reviews. thats a HUGE FUCKING DEAL 

 

Yes but that needs to be disclosed in the video according to the FTC. TotalBiscuit did a video about this a few days ago that really explains the argument well.

 

Sencondly.....It's not your company. So I would kindly suggest you stop telling someone 'how they should run things or disclose things'

 

Third: If you don't trust the reviews...press Un-subscribe.

[mikat]

I completely trust this reply and trust Linus's reviews. Everything he stated makes sense. You can tell when reviewers are bullshit as they often skip real problems or stupid features. Fakes are easy. Who gives a shit if linus makes a tit ton anyway off his reviews or videos.

 

JayzTwoCents if a good example of a reviewer the kinda rides on the line of being untrustworthy. If you watch his latest videos you will notice many positives but doesn't address the elephant of the room. Might be a subjective thing.

 

Oh well. Just remember Linus is Canadian and Canadians are gooder.

What a terrible response I just wrote but it's like 2am and I'm using  surface with a broken typecover. Excuses...

jay is very good at watercooling videos and such, that's what he's good at, he needs to stick to that

[mikat]

Am I the only one who feels like this thread was completely derailed at some point?

reported user @LinusTech for intentionally derailing a thread!

[pit5000]

ZOMG, Linus wears sandals! He is sooo anti-shoes! By mere fact that they are visible means he hates shoes and/or sponsored my sandal manufacturers! By not specifically declaring this he is a total shill!

 

 

Seriously though, this sounds likes politicians yelling back and forth.

[Get I.T. Connected]

I see a lot of people questioning the credibility of LMG because of the involvement of money. What is your guys' proposed structure or solution to this problem? What does Linus have to do to convince you that he isn't a "sellout"? Does he have to do everything for free and purchase his own products? I am interested in what you guy's believe he should do differently. Not trying to be confrontational, I just don't see there being a great alternative to what they're doing that won't just totally sink them. 

[TechDookie]

AMD has about 20% market share in the discrete GPU space..

We talk more about Nvidia products more for a number of reasons (including the one above) but sponsorship isn't one of them. We make more in a month in Google adsense than Nvidia has paid Linus Media Group in total. Ever.

Graphics cards here and there for workstations are nice but don't imagine NV is some big time LTT sponsor.

Last time I checked AMD has actually done more sponsorship with us total than Nvidia.

I just hope there are more AMD and Nvidia videos. I can point out two videos in the near past that only featured Nvidia. The GPU Boost video and before that the driver video. No AMD content. I personally think it would be much more interesting to feature both graphics cards and see how they compare.

[nafeasonto]

This comes down to one thing:

 

Jealously.

 

People like to throw around bullshit, because of how much money Linus is making.  That's all this is.  Get over it guys, you want to make good money like him, make your own show.

 

People are pathetic.

[Yoinkerman]

I just hope there are more AMD and Nvidia videos. I can point out two videos in the near past that only featured Nvidia. The GPU Boost video and before that the driver video. No AMD content. I personally think it would be much more interesting to feature both graphics cards and see how they compare.

 

Personally I prefer AMD over nvidia, AMD has just been so lackluster for the past while that I can totally imagine why making more amd videos would be difficult.

[NumLock21]

According to the FCC, FTC, blah blah blah. Might as well arm yourself with a clipboard with copies of that notice, go to every fast food restaurant and hand it to them. Saying your burgers are not the same as the picture. This is called deceptive ad. :rolleyes:  

lol

[Lildirt]

reported user @LinusTech for intentionally derailing a thread!

Not him derailing the thread, you dingbat. lol

I meant more in the rampant flood of pain of opinion in this entire thread.

[LilithAkuma]

Linus did well with LMG, a company shaped from YouTube revenue is a extremely risky play, which deserves respect, if anything. As for the whole disclosure thing, he's being upfront with sponsors, isn't he? He mentions what the sponsors did. As for the reviews, they don't really sound like something a sellout would spew. A sellout would use far more flattery. Linus speaks his mind with refined articulation. And as far as I'm concerned, being well-spoken is beneficial. It's beyond my comprehension as to why people decided to jump on this, aside from the obvious reason. The thread should've been shut down a few pages ago.

[astranger200]

Linus right now:

[Dimetime35c]

A lot of assumptions being made here.

We don't take money to do reviews. We never have.

We take money to do advertisements, which are never labeled as reviews.

NVIDIA provided the graphics cards (and Cooler Master sent cases and coolers, ASUS sent motherboards, Intel sent CPUs, Kingston sent SSDs and RAM, Swiftech sent water cooling gear) for our editing workstations for product placement in the whole room water cooling series of videos we produced featuring this hardware extensively.

In the grand scheme of things, $6000 of graphics cards (don't imagine that's their BOM cost on them either) is a great deal for 1-2M impressions on a series of videos about using them.. but those videos were NOT a review. They were about a clearly sponsored (we said it was more than once) outrageous project.

As for sending "keeper" vs "loaner" units of hardware, yeah for many products we just don't do loaners anymore, but more than anything else this is to do with me not feeling like it's worth my time to play email tag for shipping labels and spend an hour driving to FedEX and filling out stupid international bill of landing and commercial invoice nonsense over like a $100 item that costs more to send back than to just not bother with anyway.

That and quite frankly even a negative review (for some reason) often generates a lot of sales for the manufacturer.. so as far as I'm concerned they can eat the cost of the item and I'll do whatever I want with it when we're done reviewing it - whether that's continuing to use it personally (Pebble Steel and iPhone 6 come to mind) - or re-visiting it only when we need to re-do our comparative numbers (here's a lesson on why this is necessary and we can't just re-use old numbers)

And on the subject of the Pebble and iPhone 6 - these are both items that were NOT provided by the manufacturer. One was purchased for my own use and the other was provided by a separate sponsor who makes skins for phones (dBrand), but I didn't necessarily mention this at the time because who cares? It doesn't colour my impressions of the device.

Here's an item I wasn't allowed to keep and won one of the two editor's choice awards I've ever given out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1uj6wQTu58

Here's an item was allowed to keep that I ripped apart saying it was worse across the board than the two similar products from other manufacturers that I compared it against: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O1aCNrjV64

Here's an item I was allowed to keep that I basically ripped apart on camera and sent it back anyway because it had so little value to me I didn't even want to give it to a friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3AgcltUM9s

And I could do this all day..

You may notice that most of the items we review we are fairly positive about. There is a reason for this, and it has nothing to do with being paid to review it.

I don't generally bother to review stuff that I already know is stupid junk.

The bottom line is this. You can either trust me or not trust me. Ultimately that's your deal. My job is to do what I do, and the people who recognize it for what it is - my opinion being given to you - will follow, and the others can go find someone who maybe they think "hasn't sold out" but might just "happen to agree with them" to listen to. Enjoy.

Linus NO ONE here is accusing you of ANYTHING!!!!! We are simply voicing our concerns about the possibility of reviews being swayed. NO ONE is saying you are doing it!!!! We simply want to make sure you dot your i and cross your ts. I know you'd NEVER let the fact you got the product for free effect the review! We are simply voicing the concern so don't take it personal. We only want to make sure you don't get in trouble and don't look like your doing anything shadey. Please don't take this as an attack on you or LMG.