Windows EdgeBook - Microsoft rumored to challenge Chromebooks with an extremely lite version of Windows

[Dabombinable]

What's the bet the internals will be be outdated compared to their same-price-competitors.

[LAwLz]

13 hours ago, Arika S said:

And everything that people report about HOW it is/was a monopoly by bundling software within Windows is currently being done by Apple, yet somehow what they do is different?  

The difference is market share. Windows had/have something like 90% market share. That gives them a huge amount of power.

 

iOS has less than 25% market share. That's why Google (Android has around 75%) gets hit harder with things like locking competitors out of their platform.

 

 

13 hours ago, Arika S said:

And from what I can find, they only refer to Netscape (which was a browser, not as OS) as is being a competitor which is the basis for the argument of a monopoly, unless there's other things that none of the sources actually put in there?  

Microsoft has done far more illegal things to maintain market dominance than just the things against Netscape.

Things like the FUD campaigns.

Threatening to sue companies if they use GNU/Linux and not Windows.

Requiring PC manufacturers to pay a Windows license fee even if the computers sold did not run Windows.

Withholding documentation necessary to make competing products compatible with Microsoft standards or Windows, and demanding a 6.85% royalty fee for the documentation (after several trials it was set to a flat rate 10,000 Euro cost for the documentation).

 

The Netscape case was not just about Microsoft bundling IE either. The Netscape lawsuit was what set of an investigation which found other things, such as establishing that Microsoft in fact had a monopoly.

 

Also, here is a quote from Ballmer from 2004:

Quote

Fucking Eric Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I'm going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to fucking kill Google.

 

[Arika]

29 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, here is a quote from Ballmer from 2004

Ballmer is a dickhead

[jagdtigger]

22 hours ago, Arika S said:

And everything that people report about HOW it is/was a monopoly by bundling software within Windows is currently being done by Apple, yet somehow what they do is different? 

 

And from what I can find, they only refer to Netscape (which was a browser, not as OS) as is being a competitor which is the basis for the argument of a monopoly, unless there's other things that none of the sources actually put in there? 

Maybe not the best source but there is a lot of info in there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft

[Hellion]

I love how they do not state what the install size is...

 

I have a hard time believing microshaft is capable of creating a modern operating system under 10 GB. The over bloated monstrosity known as windows 10 continues to become filled with increasingly more garbage with every single update.

 

 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Hellion said:

I love how they do not state what the install size is...

'cause they don't know yet? It is still in development, and we have no idea if it will actually come out.

 

1 hour ago, Hellion said:

I have a hard time believing microshaft is capable of creating a modern operating system under 10 GB. The over bloated monstrosity known as windows 10 continues to become filled with increasingly more garbage with every single update.

They can.. but then you'll complain about things not working.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

They can.. but then you'll complain about things not working.

Not can; have. RT and Phone 10's Continuum both were variants of the """modern""" OS take that lost all luster after 2 hours of playing with them.

[GoodBytes]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not can; have. RT and Phone 10's Continuum both were variants of the """modern""" OS take that lost all luster after 2 hours of playing with them.

Heum ok, thank you for proving my point. Windows 10 Mobile is 4.1GB, and you complain about Continuum. And Continuum is a feature, not an OS.

 

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 10 Mobile is 4.1GB, and you complain about Continuum. And Continuum is a feature, not an OS.

Yes. That's my point. Microsoft has done the """modern""" OS (utterly meaningless term) before and the end result was no one cares.

 

What you've described has happened multiple times.

[Trik'Stari]

On 3/6/2019 at 4:54 AM, LAwLz said:

Are you sure that's a ChromeOS issue and not an issue with the device itself?

One customer I work with has a ton of Dell laptops, and it's not uncommon that they have issues with verifying batteries or chargers. But that's controlled at a BIOS level rather than the OS level.

 

You can run Office Online or the Android version of Office on Chromebooks.

But I think Google's goal is actually to get people to use Google Docs, which if you ask me isn't quite as good as MS Office.

But to be perfectly honest, for the things most students use Office for, Google Docs covers their needs completely. I'd be surprised if more than 1% of Office users actually use more than 5% of the features in it. For example in Word most people just write, change some typeface settings, and do things like set headers and index. In Excel most people just use some standard formulas and make graphs. And so on.

 

 

With the ability to run Android apps I think Chromebooks went from being really bad, to actually being quite decent computers if you got simpler needs.

I've seen it on more than just Dell Chromebooks.

 

As for the office issue, MS Office is what the overwhelming majority of businesses use. I get that Google Docs can do what most students need, but knowledge of one does not equate to knowledge of the other, and the students would be better off running what is actually used in the real world.

 

I know most people are likely going to disagree with me. Honestly if I had a kid and the school was using Chromebooks I would be looking at some way of getting him/her training on something more similar to what they would actually be using in the real world, something I thought schools were supposed to get you ready for.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Not can; have. RT and Phone 10's Continuum both were variants of the """modern""" OS take that lost all luster after 2 hours of playing with them.

That's what I loved about windows phone,  nothing flash, basic operating system, everything I needed was there with the ability to link my email, calendar etc without googles prying eyes all on a $99 phone that operated more at the speed of an iphone or upper ranger android.  Sometimes basic is all that is needed.

 

 

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

I've seen it on more than just Dell Chromebooks.

 

As for the office issue, MS Office is what the overwhelming majority of businesses use. I get that Google Docs can do what most students need, but knowledge of one does not equate to knowledge of the other, and the students would be better off running what is actually used in the real world.

 

I know most people are likely going to disagree with me. Honestly if I had a kid and the school was using Chromebooks I would be looking at some way of getting him/her training on something more similar to what they would actually be using in the real world, something I thought schools were supposed to get you ready for.

This is exactly what happened to me,  Technology in school was basically ipads.  It was great they where using the office port, but the first thing I did was set them up with full windows pc's and office.  The idea that they could get through their main schooling and not have desktop office skills was scary.

[Hellion]

On Friday, March 08, 2019 at 5:36 PM, GoodBytes said:

'cause they don't know yet? It is still in development, and we have no idea if it will actually come out.

 

They can.. but then you'll complain about things not working.

How would you not know in advance of making such a claim?  Logic would dictate you know what you are talking about before making an announcement about said topic.

 

There's literally nothing outside of the basic core functionality that I find necessary for windows to over bloat it's install with that isn't available via third party at a vastly smaller size with better features and functionality.

 

For example windows 7 comes in at less then a 1/4 the size of a modern 10 install (that can still be slimmed down considerably) and does everything 99% of average Joe users care about. The other 3/4 of 10 is literally a bunch of garbage.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, Hellion said:

For example windows 7 comes in at less then a 1/4 the size of a modern 10 install

The 64bit versions of both clock in at around 20GB. The 32bit version of 7 is a 16GB install. Nowhere close to 1/4 that of 10.

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, Hellion said:

How would you not know in advance of making such a claim?  Logic would dictate you know what you are talking about before making an announcement about said topic.

What announcement? There is no announcement

 

 

Quote

For example windows 7 comes in at less then a 1/4 the size of a modern 10 install (that can still be slimmed down considerably) and does everything 99% of average Joe users care about. The other 3/4 of 10 is literally a bunch of garbage.

First of all, why do you care about install size? Space is a super cheap. Do you lack space form your 1TB drive? I doubt it.

Second, Microsoft recommends 20GB of free space for both OS. That is Windows + page file + Hibernation file + free space

Do you have any proof on what you are saying?

 

And great to hear that older Windows can do 99% of the average Joe wants. MSDOS does too, why do you use anything else? Oh, now it is an issue? Why?

[Hellion]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The 64bit versions of both clock in at around 20GB. The 32bit version of 7 is a 16GB install. Nowhere close to 1/4 that of 10.

Once you take into account the additional space microshaft wants to hold in reservation for future updates, no.

 

Even 7 is slighly bloated. The secondary partition of x64 I have installed once de-crapified using a 3rd party slip stream installer brings the install size to just shy of 14GB.

[Hellion]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

What announcement? There is no announcement

 

 

First of all, why do you care about install size? Space is a super cheap. Do you lack space form your 1TB drive? I doubt it.

Second, Microsoft recommends 20GB of free space for both OS. That is Windows + page file + Hibernation file + free space

Do you have any proof on what you are saying?

 

And great to hear that older Windows can do 99% of the average Joe wants. MSDOS does too, why do you use anything else? Oh, now it is an issue? Why?

Where do you think this information came from?..........

 

 

I care about not having a bunch of garbage clutter that I will never use. How much physical storage I have or what it costs is completely irrelevant.

 

 

I'm also seriously laughing at how you think the average user would consider an OS without a GUI interface which by the way does not account for multiple GB's of data. Nice try though.

[Blademaster91]

14 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Once you take into account the additional space microshaft wants to hold in reservation for future updates, no.

 

Even 7 is slighly bloated. The secondary partition of x64 I have installed once de-crapified using a 3rd party slip stream installer brings the install size to just shy of 14GB.

If you don't have enough space for updates in the future it doesn't matter, storage is cheap and not having enough room for updates is likely a reason updates break other things. Wanting to optimize RAM I can understand but saving a bit of HDD space on windows really makes no sense with how cheap storage is.

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

And great to hear that older Windows can do 99% of the average Joe wants. MSDOS does too, why do you use anything else? Oh, now it is an issue? Why?

You don't need more than 640kb ram for MSDOS.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Hellion said:

Once you take into account the additional space microshaft wants to hold in reservation for future updates, no.

You would still need that space to apply Windows updates/service pack/version upgrades. So that space would be "reserved" in your mind, in any case.

 

 

Quote

Even 7 is slighly bloated. The secondary partition of x64 I have installed once de-crapified using a 3rd party slip stream installer brings the install size to just shy of 14GB.

That is about the size of Windows 10. What are you talking about? And funny enough that is also about the size of Windows 7.. so what did you remove? or " de-crapified" as you say? The default wallpaper?!

[ZacoAttaco]

On 3/9/2019 at 2:45 PM, Trik'Stari said:

I've seen it on more than just Dell Chromebooks.

 

As for the office issue, MS Office is what the overwhelming majority of businesses use. I get that Google Docs can do what most students need, but knowledge of one does not equate to knowledge of the other, and the students would be better off running what is actually used in the real world.

 

I know most people are likely going to disagree with me. Honestly if I had a kid and the school was using Chromebooks I would be looking at some way of getting him/her training on something more similar to what they would actually be using in the real world, something I thought schools were supposed to get you ready for.

I've recently started studying again, I use the Office Online suite, Word Online, Excel online etc. and I'm running into major compatibility issues with the way my school designs their submission .docx files. They use proprietary Word form locking that do not translate into the cloud version of the program. I've tried using LibreOffice, I like it for the most part, but again, there is major compatibility issues when editing pre-prepared .docx files.

 

I think the school is partly to blame as well though, I think there are still issues when editing on full fat Word.

[jagdtigger]

12 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

They use proprietary Word form locking that do not translate into the cloud version of the program.

Most likely its infested with makro's, the same kind of cancer i have to deal with whenever i get a form from my employer to fill it out....

[ZacoAttaco]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

Most likely its infested with makro's, the same kind of cancer i have to deal with whenever i get a form from my employer to fill it out....

I suspect you're right. Essentially, they are trying to restrict user input in certain parts of the forms. For me, every time I save the documents, close and reopen, the information I entered is also locked, meaning I can't edit anything that I've typed.

[Trik'Stari]

2 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

I've recently started studying again, I use the Office Online suite, Word Online, Excel online etc. and I'm running into major compatibility issues with the way my school designs their submission .docx files. They use proprietary Word form locking that do not translate into the cloud version of the program. I've tried using LibreOffice, I like it for the most part, but again, there is major compatibility issues when editing pre-prepared .docx files.

 

I think the school is partly to blame as well though, I think there are still issues when editing on full fat Word.

I made it through ECPI using nothing but Libre Office, it was capable of saving files as .doc or .docx. So I honesty have no solution.

 

I do think schools are to blame for gatekeeping a lot of knowledge and I think that's partially the reason for their absolute bias against Wikipedia. Every single paper I wrote through college, I used wikipedia as the source of information. I cited wikipedia, and cited the sources wikipedia cited. Every single time the teacher would make a comment about wikipedia I would point out that they didn't question the other sources, which were cited by wikipedia, nor was there ever any factual discrepancy between those sources, wikipedia, and my paper.

 

I've never received anything less than an A on a paper in college.

 

Personally I think colleges fear wikipedia and the free-flow of information because they value their jobs, and to me the internet represents a real threat to that.

[Drak3]

30 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I made it through ECPI using nothing but Libre Office, it was capable of saving files as .doc or .docx. So I honesty have no solution.

 

I do think schools are to blame for gatekeeping a lot of knowledge and I think that's partially the reason for their absolute bias against Wikipedia. Every single paper I wrote through college, I used wikipedia as the source of information. I cited wikipedia, and cited the sources wikipedia cited. Every single time the teacher would make a comment about wikipedia I would point out that they didn't question the other sources, which were cited by wikipedia, nor was there ever any factual discrepancy between those sources, wikipedia, and my paper.

 

I've never received anything less than an A on a paper in college.

 

Personally I think colleges fear wikipedia and the free-flow of information because they value their jobs, and to me the internet represents a real threat to that.

There's also the fact that for a long time, just about anyone could edit Wikipedia entries...

[ZacoAttaco]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I made it through ECPI using nothing but Libre Office, it was capable of saving files as .doc or .docx. So I honesty have no solution.

 

I do think schools are to blame for gatekeeping a lot of knowledge and I think that's partially the reason for their absolute bias against Wikipedia. Every single paper I wrote through college, I used wikipedia as the source of information. I cited wikipedia, and cited the sources wikipedia cited. Every single time the teacher would make a comment about wikipedia I would point out that they didn't question the other sources, which were cited by wikipedia, nor was there ever any factual discrepancy between those sources, wikipedia, and my paper.

 

I've never received anything less than an A on a paper in college.

 

Personally I think colleges fear wikipedia and the free-flow of information because they value their jobs, and to me the internet represents a real threat to that.

It's good to hear you've had success with Libre Office, at this stage I will keep using it. I think the general attitude towards Wikipedia has changed. It's now an invaluable part of the internet. Some years ago there were questions about it's accuracy but I think they've all fallen by the wayside now.

 

And lastly, you're right. As funny as it sounds, the internet's ability to teach and application to education is very underrated. Most people associate the internet with a quick Google search or for social media but really, the vast amount of knowledge and information you can find online is the truly impressive part.

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

And lastly, you're right. As funny as it sounds, the internet's ability to teach and application to education is very underrated. Most people associate the internet with a quick Google search or for social media but really, the vast amount of knowledge and information you can find online is the truly impressive part.

So long as you have the ability to discern good sources from bad and to compare the good sources to know the difference between qualified data and the reason it needs to be qualified.

 

It is inherent human nature to lean towards believing information that pacifies our fears, given that science doesn't seek to pacify your emotional desires and only to uncover the truth,  this leaves the majority of people gullible to misinformation (something the internet is full of).