Anyone else think it's dumb that modular power supply cables aren't universal by now?

[Ace McPlane]

I'm glad I never made this mistake myself, but I've seen a few people fry motherboards and whatnot by making this mistake.

I think it's extremely stupid. Sure, there are reasons to want to have a cable that works differently than a competitors, but why are they keyed the same way?

There's no excuse for that in this day and age.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

[PlayStation 2]

Well, there's a reason for it; hardly any power supplies, unless they come from the same line, differ, usually extensively, in many internal components. The cables are made to work with that specific PSU for a reason.

[WereCat]

More or less dumb than the USB standard?

[vanished]

Considering the power they're providing is standardized I see no reason they couldn't standardize the cables too, but I think they don't because that would require cooperation between all the different manufacturers and there just isn't a strong enough reason to bother.  Is it dumb?  Yeah I guess, but it's the least of our worries.

[Bananasplit_00]

Yah its stupid as they have to provide the same voltages as any other PSU but coorperations dont want to cooperate so nothing will probably happen tbh

[Trik'Stari]

As someone who's attempted to make his own custom length cables in the past, I'd like to see more than just standardizing.

 

For F**K SAKE, they need to be 1 to 1. Why is there more than 24 wires on my 24 pin connector? Why do my GPU connectors come with annoying hanger-on connectors that just look like dick?

[seon123]

8 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Why is there more than 24 wires on my 24 pin connector?

Sensing wires for more stable voltages. 

[Trik'Stari]

2 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Sensing wires for more stable voltages. 

For some reason I doubt that. I know that a lot of the custom guides out there show people shortening the secondary cable and having it connect to the first, well before the end connector, maybe a third of the way down the entire cable length. Wouldn't that cause an issue?

 

If that were the case, I'd rather they just have a separate bundle of cables that I can neatly organize and cut to length lol

[Catsrules]

I wonder if there is patents that prevent this? Each manufacturer patented it's own cable connection, and it is so easy to make your one that no other companies wants to pay  the other.

[seon123]

9 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

For some reason I doubt that. I know that a lot of the custom guides out there show people shortening the secondary cable and having it connect to the first, well before the end connector, maybe a third of the way down the entire cable length. Wouldn't that cause an issue?

 

If that were the case, I'd rather they just have a separate bundle of cables that I can neatly organize and cut to length lol

The voltages may get less stable, but it shouldn't be an issue to the point of not working, I imagine. 

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, seon123 said:

The voltages may get less stable, but it shouldn't be an issue to the point of not working, I imagine. 

I just wish they could make it 1-1. Would simplify the already difficult process of making custom length sleeved wiring. Those pins are ridiculously annoying to work with, and the tools you get for removing them generally don't work well.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

its brand loyalty that dumb.

producers dont want customers to use their cables working and switching to brand B

[awesomegamer919]

9 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I just wish they could make it 1-1. Would simplify the already difficult process of making custom length sleeved wiring. Those pins are ridiculously annoying to work with, and the tools you get for removing them generally don't work well.

Last I checked, Silverstone do 1:1 cables on their units. 

 

 

Regardless, there are plenty of reasons to have incompatible cables compared to competition - G2L for example with LED connectors, many units have 4 extra VSense wires on the ATX cable and some companies use 12 or even 16 pin PCIe connectors on the PSU end that you can use high wattage GPUs (Vega, FuryX, X80Ti etc) with a single cable and not 2...

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I agree that cables should be standardized at both ends, not just at the delivery end. However, I do not agree that they should all be 1:1 because of the voltage sensing cables.

 

There is really no reason what they can't be standarized at both ends other than the entities that determines the standards hasn't seen fit to do so. If they can come up with the changes that resulted in the current moronic, confusing standards for USB, they could change the standards for PSU cables no matter what manufacturers want.

 

Oh, wait, that would make too much sense. Sorry.

[Ace McPlane]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:15 AM, awesomegamer919 said:

Last I checked, Silverstone do 1:1 cables on their units. 

 

 

Regardless, there are plenty of reasons to have incompatible cables compared to competition - G2L for example with LED connectors, many units have 4 extra VSense wires on the ATX cable and some companies use 12 or even 16 pin PCIe connectors on the PSU end that you can use high wattage GPUs (Vega, FuryX, X80Ti etc) with a single cable and not 2...

Yea, but why are they keyed the same way?

These arguments would be perfectly fine if separate cables used different keyed connectors so you can't plug something into the wrong spot.

[Ace McPlane]

On 9/18/2018 at 5:05 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

Considering the power they're providing is standardized I see no reason they couldn't standardize the cables too, but I think they don't because that would require cooperation between all the different manufacturers and there just isn't a strong enough reason to bother.  Is it dumb?  Yeah I guess, but it's the least of our worries.

I've seen people fry their systems because of this so it can really suck for a beginner. It's just that you'd be inclined to think that they wouldn't key the connectors the same if using the wrong one can fry things. That would be logical thinking. It's illogical for connectors that are specifically good for being keyed in different ways would even be able to be plugged in when they're not compatible. I think it's setting up beginners to fail and I don't like that.

[Stefan Payne]

On 18.9.2018 at 10:05 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

Considering the power they're providing is standardized I see no reason they couldn't standardize the cables too,

They are already doing that, just takes time...

You can use the Corsair type 4 cables with Bitfenix Whisper M and Cougar GX-F.

And also almost on the Xilence Performance X, after some slight modifications (the +5V is in the wrong slot, so no +5V on that cable because they used the wrong pin.)

 

So there is a move to standardize that. But it takes time. Another Manufacturer did the same and they took somewhat like 6 Years or so to do that. 

 

And also there can be reasons to make some things different. I don't like the 6pin PCIe cables for peripherials. I prefer the 1x5 pin - like Cooler Master, and be quiet are using and Enermax used to use. As well as Seasonic. (Ironical IIRC Seasonic were the first to use that with the Original M12, after that Enermax)...

Sadly that didn't become the standard but 6pin PCIe...

 

On 18.9.2018 at 10:05 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

but I think they don't because that would require cooperation between all the different manufacturers and there just isn't a strong enough reason to bother.  Is it dumb?  Yeah I guess, but it's the least of our worries.

No, as there is already a move in this direction

It doesn't require cooperation as the pinout doesn't seem to be patentable (I hope!).

 

So all it takes is for a company to do it and adopt the pinout of another company.

 

Give it another 10 or 15 years and we won't see much more than a hand full different pinouts...

[Stefan Payne]

On 18.9.2018 at 10:11 PM, Trik'Stari said:

For F**K SAKE, they need to be 1 to 1. Why is there more than 24 wires on my 24 pin connector? Why do my GPU connectors come with annoying hanger-on connectors that just look like dick?

Not possible, as you need the voltage sense wires for that.

They are literally to sense the Voltage on the Pin, to regulate the Voltage of the PSU. 

 

If you don't do that, you can't do the 0,025% Voltage regulation that so many people want to have. And the reviewers will be whining that the PSU only has 1,5% regulation and remove a point or two...

 

So it is not possible to make them "1:2", as you need up to three voltage sense lines, one for 3,3V, one for +5V and one for the important 12V.

 

 

As for the PCIe Connectors: That's because manufacturers tend to use EPS12 COnnectors for PCIe and also use the right Pinout for that...

So you have to use a couple of Ground Pins more than once on the Device Side...

 

oh and  pls flame Seasonic for using EPS12V Pinout (=like Corsair) but PCIe 8pin Connectors for their PCIe/CPU Connectors...

Using PCIe Connectors for both Peripherials and CPU/PCIe is bad enough (as you can insert the Drive connectors into the CPU/PCIe ones) but using PCIe Connectors with EPS12V Pinout is worse...

[vanished]

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

...

Give it another 10 or 15 years and we won't see much more than a hand full different pinouts...

IMO that's just complete and utter failure frankly.  It's like "we are aware of the hoard of 12 serial killers on the loose.  Fear not, within just 10 to 15 years, there will be only 5 remaining".  This is a problem that could be completely solved in 3 years or less at least within the big names anyone cares about.  The fact that were on track to have it partially solved within 15 just shows what I was saying - that there just isn't any will to do it.

 

Furthermore I dont understand how this problem even came to exist.  It seems like a self inflicted problem on the part of the manufacturers.  An 8 pin CPU connector, an 8 or 6 pin PCIe connector, a 24 pin connector, etc. all have a standard end on them already.  Just use that same end on the PSU side and it's problem solved!?

[seon123]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Furthermore I dont understand how this problem even came to exist.  It seems like a self inflicted problem on the part of the manufacturers.  An 8 pin CPU connector, an 8 or 6 pin PCIe connector, a 24 pin connector, etc. all have a standard end on them already.  Just use that same end on the PSU side and it's problem solved!?

But what about if a brand wants to perform well in a review, and so they implement Vsense wires? Those will require extra pins. And how about the ability to use an extra EPS 8 pin cable instead of an extra PCIe cable? Stuff like that.

It seems to me like there will always be compromises, somehow. 

[vanished]

36 minutes ago, seon123 said:

But what about if a brand wants to perform well in a review, and so they implement Vsense wires? Those will require extra pins. And how about the ability to use an extra EPS 8 pin cable instead of an extra PCIe cable? Stuff like that.

It seems to me like there will always be compromises, somehow. 

could you or someone explain the "sense" wires?  I've seen that mentioned but I dont understand how having more wires than there are pins in the destination connector adds any ability whatsoever.

[seon123]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

could you or someone explain the "sense" wires?  I've seen that mentioned but I dont understand how having more wires than there are pins in the destination connector adds any ability whatsoever.

It would have to be someone else; I know they improve the stability, but I don't know how. 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

I agree with the premise but sadly I doubt anything will happen; that would require competing companies to work together

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

could you or someone explain the "sense" wires?  I've seen that mentioned but I dont understand how having more wires than there are pins in the destination connector adds any ability whatsoever.

It allegedly senses the voltage of the delivery wire, at the opposite end of the connector.

 

I'm not entirely sure that's either necessary or true, but that's my understanding of it. I've no idea why it would even be necessary either. I don't know how the computer communicates with the PSU for what it needs, I would assume mostly through the 24pin connector. I don't see why additional wires would be necessary if the computer itself can sense what is it getting, and then is able to tell the PSU what it needs to do.

 

I could be wrong, this is all speculation.

[seon123]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I don't know how the computer communicates with the PSU for what it needs, I would assume mostly through the 24pin connector

It doesn't. The PSU just supplies the voltages and ground. The only pins for communication are the PS on pin and the power good pin. The PSU just tries to keep the voltages constant, and the PC draws what it needs, presumably by just changing the resistance somehow.